BoxRec

Quarry had skills, but he was a fighter, first & foremost. Sounds a little like his opponent. Thing is, Quarry hurt Heavies. He'd pulverise Hagler, who'd fall in six rounds or fewer. A shot, natural Welterweight Ray Leonard outboxed & out-foxed an ageing Hagler, so a prime Heavyweight in Machen, who lasted the distance with Liston, would hold him off at will. Difference is, Machen would end it where Leonard could not. Another victory inside the distance for the bigger man.

I'm sure you & I won't see eye-to-eye on this one, Robbo, but, for mine...Dempsey absolutely flattens Hopkins, & I don't know if Hopkins ever fights again. An iron-jaw, like most things in boxing is a relative thing, subject to weight divisions. When Felix Trinidad or Kelly Pavlik are hitting you, okay --- when it's Jack Dempsey, well...

Robinson couldn't get by Maxim at Light-Heavy, & Ketchel was a similarly fabulous Middleweight to Robinson who went the minute Johnson got serious with him. Much of the same here for the smaller Robinson, who can neither stay away forever or effectively counter-attack from the outside. Johnson often made short-work of smaller adversaries. None would be more diminuitive than the over-matched Robinson, who loses convincingly.

Corbett & Foley had under-rated power at Heavyweight. They certainly hit a hell of a lot harder than a Welterweight Leonard or a Middleweight Hagler, both of whom put Hearns on queer street. Hearns needs the range against opponents who can hurt him (& he was chinny against men half the size of his opponents here) & he doesn't have it in these match-ups. Worse, he's pitted against defensive Heavyweights, who wouldn't provide many counter-attack opportunities. Can he hurt them with that right hand? Possibly, yes. Can he KO them? I really doubt it. He gets KO'ed by both. Hard.

Monzon falls hard & early to Sharkey. Throw that one out, IMO. Spinks? Well, Spinks did fight as low as Cruiser, but Monzon never moved up, so that doesn't help his assessment. This is the closest fight thus far, but I'm going to five Neon Leon the bright lights of benefit of the doubt against the great Escopita (whom I once ranked as the best Middle of all-time). I say Spinks comes out, never stops throwing, & eventually stops Monzon, who isn't accustomed to having anything less than significant size advantages.

Too early in Toney's career for him to beat Burns. Perhaps a little later, but not as a Middleweight or Super-Middle, no. Burns on decision. Ditto, against Baer, whose right hand may've put Toney into orbit. Toney was a very capable counter-puncher who may've experienced success early against the clumsier Baer, but he's not staying away from him --- that wasn't Toney, & if Baer can find Schmeling, he can find just about any Middleweight, IMO.

As a Super-Middle, I really can't pick on Jones-Willard. I can see a good, solid case for either man. The Jones who beat Ruiz would probably do Willard in, but we're not talking about the experienced Light-Heavy bulking up --- we're talking about the greener 160-168lber, though he did probably peak at Super-Middle. Jones goes down in flames, however, against Marciano. It's as spectacular a KO as you'll ever see, & it comes after five rounds of Jones running & holding for his life.

One, maybe two wins for the little fellas, here, IMO. No more.

Robinson wrote:hey gents

How do you think these David vs Goliath matches would have played out...

peak for peak...15 rounds...no 3 knock down

Marvin Hagler Vs Jerry Quarry / Eddie Machen

Bernard Hopkins Vs Jack Dempsey

Ray Robinson Vs Jack Johnson

Thomas Hearns Vs James Corbett / Zora Folley

Carlos Monzon Vs Leon Spinks / Tom Sharkey

James Toney (160-168lbs) Vs Tommy Burns / Max Baer

Roy Jones Jr (160-170lbs) Vs Jess Willard / Rocky Marciano

How do you see these fights playing out...

Robinson wrote:Just a query

Why do people here think that a 5'8, 170-180lb Tom Sharkey
would man handle a near 6', 160lb Monzon ?

Robinson wrote:
.

Robinson wrote:Money is a big reason though DF. At that time the MW division was
a good money division. Plus HW's were slowly getting to be a little
more consistently heavier and bigger in the 70s.

Do you think Sharkey would have fought HW had their been good
money at MW and LHW ?

Jim Williams who managed to draw against Sharkey was essentially
a MW> as an example.

Sharkey strikes me as some one is extremely strong and conditioned
and who through tenacious conditioning wills himself to win. Until he
meets a Jeffries or so on.

I just find that while their is not a great deal of size difference and
Monzon being the well conditioned and adaptive fighter that he is
that it would be a good even match up.

bollox wrote:I really can't understand why anyone would be interested in these sorts fights. Boxing is about matching guys of the same weight, not big man V small man. Has anyone here ever been impressed by the big schoolyard bully pounding the crap out of some tiny guy?

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

bollox wrote:I really can't understand why anyone would be interested in these sorts fights. Boxing is about matching guys of the same weight, not big man V small man. Has anyone here ever been impressed by the big schoolyard bully pounding the crap out of some tiny guy?

I suspect, if I know our Kym, it is as much an issue of eras in which the men fought as it is size.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

bollox wrote:I really can't understand why anyone would be interested in these sorts fights. Boxing is about matching guys of the same weight, not big man V small man. Has anyone here ever been impressed by the big schoolyard bully pounding the crap out of some tiny guy?

I suspect, if I know our Kym, it is as much an issue of eras in which the men fought as it is size.

bollox wrote: I reckon in the early day a few of the smaller guys had some success based on the fact that a lot of fighters had a poor skill level, combined with the fact that the rules were very different to today (eg the use of grappling). The best example of where a highly skilled middleweight took on a highly skilled HW in the early days was Johnson v Ketchel. And we all know how that one turned out

Look back through the decades and you'll see that the old saying of "a good big man always beats a good little man" was a truism in the game

dempseyfire wrote: 1)If Monzon could've beaten great light HWs/small heavyweights why did he never leave 160? Don't tell me he wouldn't have made better money.

Robinson wrote:Do you think Sharkey would have fought HW had their been good
money at MW and LHW ?

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:The first example of a highly skilled middleweight taking on a highly skilled HW that I'm aware is Bob Fitzsimmons...