BoxRec

Alot of people get on Chuck Wepner as being one of the worst title challengers in HW history, that he had no chance, no business, being in the same ring with Ali, but I was re-thinking the "Bayonne Bleeder", and wanted to really break his career down and see where Wepner truly does rank not only among the 1970's list of contenders, but maybe even of all time as well.

Wepner's Amatuer Credentials:

81-0, holding the AAU HW and New York Golden Gloves HW titles

Professional Credentials:

35-14-2 (17); 9 of the 14 losses were by TKO's

Was the 'American Heavyweight' and New Jersey State Heavyweight champion

Also to note, in his prime, only Muhammad Ali was ever able to knock Wepner down

Greatest Wins:

Pedro Agosto, Manuel Ramos, Randy Neumann, Charlie Polite, Terry Hinke

Greatest Losses:

Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Duane Bobick, Joe Bugner, Sonny Liston, Jose Roman

Other Figures:

Though Wepner was given a decision win over Ernie Terrell, many believed the fight to have been a win for Terrell; early in his career he lost on a TKO to 5-0-0 Buster Mathis, following losses to Bobick and Schutte, Wepner was never again considered a genuine contender, ending his career in 1978 following a loss to 4-0-0 Scott Frank who would later fight Larry Holmes for the HW title in years to come.

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It seems to me, that Wepner's "prime" was around 1972-1975, even though throughout 1969-1971 he faced the likes of Foreman and Liston and Bugner. From 1972-1975 he racked up 10-1-0 record, his only loss being to Ali. In between that time he defeated Neumann twice, got the gift against Terrell, and stopped contender Terry Hinke as well as Charlie Polite.

After Ali from 1976-1978 he went 3-4-0, losing to Bobick, Schutte and Frank. He had no significant wins in that time period, though, it must be stated that the win for Bobick made him a catalyst for being a top contender, until Ken Norton derailed his title hopes, so by the time he lost to Bobick, Wepner was still considered at least a gate way opponent to defeat.

1964-1971, Wepner scored 22 wins with 9 losses, and two draws. One loss being to Neumann, three being to Liston, Foreman, Bugner, and the others were to novices like Jerry Judge and of course Buster Mathis who was 5-0-0 at the time.

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Wepner lost to the best up and comers (Foreman/Mathis/Roman/Bugner) of his time on the way up, while at the same time, defeating the lower rung of contenders when he reached his peak. When he fought Ali he was ranked #8 in the world following his win over Hinke, which was billed for the 'American Heavyweight' title, of all things. So imo, Wepner, is safe inside the top 15 contenders of the 1970's, as such men as Alfredo Evangelista, Jean Pierre Coopman, Richard Dunne, and others of the same ilk, are behind him.

The only men ahead of him would have been Terrell, Patterson, Chuvalo, Bonavena, Quarry, etc.

Wepner, was far from being one of the worst title challengers in HW history.

HomicideHenry wrote: ...stopped contender Terry Hinke...

Contender?

Wepner fought Hinke for the 'American Heavyweight' title. The win made him ranked inside the top ten.

You can slice and dice Wepners career anyway you want but the bottom line will always be that he was no more than a journeyman and in no way did he deserve a shot at the title. Was he the worst title challenger ever ? Well, if not the worst he is certainly a contender in that respect.

hhaehre wrote:You can slice and dice Wepners career anyway you want but the bottom line will always be that he was no more than a journeyman and in no way did he deserve a shot at the title.

- Ali was just rubbing Big George's nose in it. "Nah, nah, you ain't never gonna get another sniff of a title as long as I'm alive."

A few weeks after their fight in his Playboy interview, Ali revealed he had received an offer by a black oilman for the Foreman rematch to be held in Indonesia for $5 mil apiece.

Collins2000 wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote: ...stopped contender Terry Hinke...

Contender?

Hinke was a solid journeyman/fringe contender very similar to someone like a Ray Austin today. He had a few solid wins and could punch, but didn't quite have enough to make it.

The only thing that needs analyzing is Wepners brain....for stepping in the ring with some of the guys he stepped in the ring with. However he was guy who could (and did) take the best of beatings.

Funny how history is revisionist with some fighters.
And, some fighters , there is really no mystery about.
What heavyweight was more of a what you see is what you get guy then Wepner?
Stand in there and bang, entertain the fans. No bullshit lunch pail fighter.
You fight his fight, you could lose. Is there any doubt about what his fight is?
"Chuck is a stand up guy."
That guy that wrote that book about Liston summed him up that way.
Seems accurate.To a guy like Wepner , that might be the ultimate compliment.
To a lot of people that might be the ultimate compliment.

expug.. I agree, but man what a way to make a livin'! He has my ultimate respect because at the end of the day he seemed to have no fear.

The Great John L wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote: ...stopped contender Terry Hinke...

Contender?

Hinke was a solid journeyman/fringe contender very similar to someone like a Ray Austin today. He had a few solid wins and could punch, but didn't quite have enough to make it.

I just had a look at his record. Where would he have been ranked, realistically, when he fought Wepner? In your opinion?

Collins2000 wrote:I just had a look at his record. Where would he have been ranked, realistically, when he fought Wepner? In your opinion?

I actually have all of my old boxing magazines, and Hinke did appear in the lower part of the rankings during a couple of months. I have no idea where he was ranked at the time of the Wepner fight, especially considering the delays in the publications. As I noted, he's a classic journeyman/fringe contender that most people forget 10 years later.

Was Wepner the worst? Probably not . . .the guy was as slow as a turtle drenched in molasses but he had a fair punch and he would keep coming after getting hit with the kitchen sink, the washing machine, and the old Grande in the living room. You have to give him credit for his durability and toughness. However, skill and talent-wise the guy was just in a deep-hole. In any era he would never be more than a solid gatekeeper to the top 15.

HomicideHenry wrote:Wepner fought Hinke for the 'American Heavyweight' title. The win made him ranked inside the top ten.

Henry, actually Wepner broke into the top ten with his "win" over Terrell who was rated about 6th at the time. I checked out the end of year ratings for '73 and he was rated #10. Here's what benefitted Chuck. I remember this happening at the time and even as a 16 year old I was laughing about it. I believe Al Braverman was his manager (am I wrong on that??) and he just matched him softly, taking advantage of the Terrell "win". By the end of '74 he had moved up to #8. Hinke was his final opponent that year but I think it was the win over Randy Neuman that got him nudged up a bit. Hinke was only a George Foreman sparring partner, that's all. Neuman had given Jerry Quarry a tough go and was a nice boxer and was deemed to be going places. In the Wepner fight (this was their 3rd) Randy was ahead on points when it was stopped on a cut, which Neuman screamed was from a butt. Regardless, Chuck's star were aligned just right. A controversial decision over a ranked fighter and steady wins thereafter without really testing water, keeping him in the top ten bore fruit when Ali wanted an easy opponent. Man, you couldn't write this...oh wait, I think someone did. I think they called it Rocky. Also, a bit of a myth surrounded the Ali fight when they marketed it as Wepner never having been down. He was actually dropped by Buster Mathis and Sonny Liston, although the Liston knockdown was from a bodyshot.

Scartissue

Btw, does any film of Wepner/Liston even exist? I heard there was a grainy bootleg version of the film somewhere, but have never found it.

HomicideHenry wrote:Btw, does any film of Wepner/Liston even exist? I heard there was a grainy bootleg version of the film somewhere, but have never found it.

http://www.secondsout.com/youtube/sonny ... er-part-11

http://www.secondsout.com/youtube/sonny ... er-part-21

THANKS!!!

Anyone know if he has published his autobiography yet?
I know on his web site they said he was writing it about 7 years ago.
As far as the Terrell fight went.I read somewhere that he almost bit his tonque in half after they clashed heads,but Wepner still fought on.

At Chuck Wepners web site.
http://wepner.homestead.com.
It is claimed that Wepner knocked down George Foreman
in the second round of that fight.
Is there footage of that fight?

From what I remember originally Chuck Wepner was supposed to fight Foreman again,after Foreman presumably was to"whup" Ali in Zaire.
Instead Ali defended the title against Wepner.

How many of Chuck Wepner's fights over the course of his boxing career were ever filmed or televised?

Brutu wrote:Anyone know if he has published his autobiography yet?
I know on his web site they said he was writing it about 7 years ago.
.

Anyone know if Chuck Wepner is still working on his autobiography?
Is it in press or what?

BoxBuzz wrote:The only thing that needs analyzing is Wepners brain....for stepping in the ring with some of the guys he stepped in the ring with. However he was guy who could (and did) take the best of beatings.

Yep, that about sums it up.

Tony Galento vrs Joe Louis,
now that was a rea l"Rocky" story.
So was Ron Stander vrs Joe Frazier.