BoxRec

Ali fought the best HW's of his day, this isn't even up for debate. The question, however, is how many HW's out there in the 1960's and 1970's could have fought Ali? What I mean by this is, who out there could have had reasonable enough cause to have gotten a match with Ali, and it be given a by?

Ali most certainly faced the guys that were the
biggest threat to his crown at some point in time.
I am sure you could argue he was weak on rematches
but he atleast did face a pretty good spectrum of
guys.

The British scene seemed a decent one for potential matches. Jack Bodell, John L. Gardner were two heavyweights who were decent enough. I think Ali had exhibitions with Gardner around 1978 or so.

IMO, the only man I can think of who had a solid case would have been Gerrie Coetzee who was rated #1 by the WBA when Ali defeated Spinks. Ali, of course, retired so the match never took place.

In his prime, though, that is a much tougher question to answer, because, who else really was left?

It's moments like these when I miss granberry...

Perhaps this thread will encourage him to post THAT photo again. (Not the one of that lad's muscular back that gave him the horn. I mean the one of Frazier knocking down Ali.)

I am sure he lurks :)
In any case I say hello.

John Tate and Coetzee I guess as far as old man Ali goes
but in his prime. You can not really fault him as he did face
the better named guys at some point in time.

In his prime, I would have loved to have seen Ali-Machen myself.

Robinson wrote:I am sure he lurks :)
In any case I say hello.

John Tate and Coetzee I guess as far as old man Ali goes
but in his prime. You can not really fault him as he did face
the better named guys at some point in time.

is he still PMing you?

I forward them onto John Shep and pretend I am offended. He gets one of his lap dogs to snap at granberry's ankles which makes him even madder...

nah I still have a message to him in my outbox.
Back in the good ole days he was some what
friendly. Then...he said some hurtful things.

Sadly he only made that one post, sent me some
loving thoughts and then disappeared.

I hope he is well :)

HomicideHenry wrote:In his prime, I would have loved to have seen Ali-Machen myself.

What year, Rufus?

Robinson wrote:nah I still have a message to him in my outbox.
Back in the good ole days he was some what
friendly. Then...he said some hurtful things.

Sadly he only made that one post, sent me some
loving thoughts and then disappeared.

I hope he is well :)

I was his buddy back in the day when we were tag-teaming Bazza.

Then after Bazza got bounced out the door I had no need for granberry.

1964-1965. I know Terrell beat Machen for the WBA title in 1965, but I think the contrast in styles would have given Ali a good test. I see it going the distance with Ali winning the decision.

Its a good question.
There was a guy who was often introduced as a celebrity in the crowd at the Chicago Golden Gloves back in the seventies.
His name was Kent Green and he kayoed Muhamad in the amateurs. It was the National Golden Gloves or AAU championships or something. Im not sure.
Kent fought pro for a little while and it might have been interesting to see these two go at it again.
I dont think Ali would have had a problem, but it would have been interesting to see him square things.

He should have fought Doug Jones again.

Expug wrote:Its a good question.
There was a guy who was often introduced as a celebrity in the crowd at the Chicago Golden Gloves back in the seventies.
His name was Kent Green and he kayoed Muhamad in the amateurs. It was the National Golden Gloves or AAU championships or something. Im not sure.
Kent fought pro for a little while and it might have been interesting to see these two go at it again.
I dont think Ali would have had a problem, but it would have been interesting to see him square things.

- Supposedly things were squared in a private match. Don't recall specific details, but sometime in his 2nd reign per an account posted by an eyewitness. A glorified sparring match to satisfy a curiosity factor.

It's difficult to find much to complain about Ali's comp until he won back his title. Then the complaint revolved more around lack of a rematch with Foreman, Young, and the general shaky nature of the hold he had on the title while blowing about being the Greatest.

It became like watching the new comedy program trot out ancient Milton Berle in a guest slot and being told how funny he was in the day, was being the operative word.

Robinson wrote:Ali most certainly faced the guys that were the
biggest threat to his crown at some point in time.
I am sure you could argue he was weak on rematches
but he atleast did face a pretty good spectrum of
guys.

Weak on rematches? what about Sonny Liston, Henry Cooper, Jerry Quarry, Ken Norton, Joe Frazier, Joe Bugner, and Leon Spinks!

dangerousjohnny wrote:Tefelio Stevenson

Somewhat out of synch on primes. But I would have liked to have seen this one.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

Expug wrote:Its a good question.
There was a guy who was often introduced as a celebrity in the crowd at the Chicago Golden Gloves back in the seventies.
His name was Kent Green and he kayoed Muhamad in the amateurs. It was the National Golden Gloves or AAU championships or something. Im not sure.
Kent fought pro for a little while and it might have been interesting to see these two go at it again.
I dont think Ali would have had a problem, but it would have been interesting to see him square things.

- Supposedly things were squared in a private match. Don't recall specific details, but sometime in his 2nd reign per an account posted by an eyewitness. A glorified sparring match to satisfy a curiosity factor.

It's difficult to find much to complain about Ali's comp until he won back his title. Then the complaint revolved more around lack of a rematch with Foreman, Young, and the general shaky nature of the hold he had on the title while blowing about being the Greatest.

It became like watching the new comedy program trot out ancient Milton Berle in a guest slot and being told how funny he was in the day, was being the operative word.

That would have been a thing to have seen, thats for sure. I still have yet to see the sparring session between Ali and Johansson either; a match between the two at the time for real, imo, would have ended in a kayo victory for Ingo.

HomicideHenry wrote:I still have yet to see the sparring session between Ali and Johansson either.

- There used to be a clip on utube. It was Ali doing his scalded cat routine with Ingo trying to mop up like Deputy Dog.

Doubt it lasted a minute more than the 45 sec clip. Much ado over nothing and no use whatsoever in preparing for the Floyd rematch.

SteveO wrote:

Robinson wrote:Ali most certainly faced the guys that were the
biggest threat to his crown at some point in time.
I am sure you could argue he was weak on rematches
but he atleast did face a pretty good spectrum of
guys.

Weak on rematches? what about Sonny Liston, Henry Cooper, Jerry Quarry, Ken Norton, Joe Frazier, Joe Bugner, and Leon Spinks!

I would'nt include Liston in this list since they're 2nd bout was blatantly fixed.

A rematch with Foreman & Shavers would've been good as far as the mid to later 70's goes.

During his ban time(67-70),A Younger Frazier,a Younger Bonevena,and maybe a couple bouts with Gregorio Peralta would've been good fights,especially a 67-70 version of Frazier...The Bonevena that fought Frazier in the 1st bout would've been a pretty tough and interesting challenge overall for M.Ali...A Younger Frazier might've had enough speed,power and tenacity to Really get to M.Ali...Really and Truly Though, It Would've been Really something had the Ali-Frazier trilogy started in 67 or 68 instead of 71 aye..? 8)

Peralta was the type that could make anyone look way below they're full potential as well...Just a really awkward pest type style,coupled with decent punching power and good whiskers....Loved to use the left,the left,the left,as Cosell would say. :)

But hey,Speculation and Fantasy based analysis is all part of the fun and mystique of Boxing now isnt it...?

Liston Tyson II was fixed the same way Tyson Holyfield was fixed. The fighter with the stronger mentality "fixed" the outcome so that the fighter with "fragile psyche syndrome" crumbled under pressure. No outside fix needed.

"...No outside fix needed."

Doesn't mean one didn't take place, though. Most of your logic is retrospective, as well. Your thinking wasn't mainstream at that time.

BoxBuzz wrote:Liston Tyson II was fixed the same way Tyson Holyfield was fixed. The fighter with the stronger mentality "fixed" the outcome so that the fighter with "fragile psyche syndrome" crumbled under pressure. No outside fix needed.

WoW...its just simply incredibly amazing that you dont think Ali-Liston II was fixed...!!

ali was going backwards at the time of barely landing that feather phantom punch and you think that was enough to just put away someone like liston?...i mean,he was taking loads of ali's best power punches in the first bout and it was only his shoulder injury that made em quit so how and why the hell would he be so intimidated by ali and his punching power,much less,a phantom feather punch barely landing while back-peddling...?!

do you just simply take it or accept it that one must be under the notion that ali could just ko anyone at anytime?...because this would have to be the case going by the ali-liston II bout.

Havent you ever seen the film where cosell is watching the bout with ali after he just fought chuvalo...?
he asks him,so how do you think chuvalo took all them punches of your's for 15 rounds yet liston got ko'd in 1 round and ali proceeded to explain this in a most expectantly absurd sort of way by saying something along the lines of,"well,i was 206 for liston and 214 for chuvalo so i was in slightly better shape for the liston bout and i was working extra hard on the heavy bag for 3 months prior to the liston rematch."

Are you kidding me?...What a load of bunk!....I dont buy that for a second!
Ali relied on speed during that time period,and especially against someone like liston,which he did in the 1st bout,but in the 2nd bout,he didnt need speed or power.Liston was forced to take a dive and this is just so blatantly obvious....anyone who thinks otherwise is amazingly powerfully deluded or at a remarkable level of denial.

I mean,sure,maybe Chuvalo could take a slightly better punch than Liston but Big Bad Sonny was sure as hell,no glass jaw!
Even a proverbial glassjaw would've taken that phantom punch patty cake swat!

Clean hit imo, Knock-down looked legit. What happened afterwards is the question.

refer to the analysis of the phantom punch thread for more info.

Ali was not weak on rematches. His giving Norton a third fight, a year after a Manila, was insane in my opinion, I know I would have never taken that fight if I was in his position. Fighting Holmes off a two year layoff at 38 in the early stages of Parkinsons was the only thing he did that was crazier thanthat.

Doug Jones didn't deserve a rematch. He lost the fight, then lost to Chuvalo and Terrell and Frazier, who Ali then beat himself. If he had won one of those matches he would have gotten a rematch.

But to answer the question of the thread, no, Ali fought everyone up until he got old. Obviously no fighter can perpetually go on fighting everyone, of course a Coetzee and some others were going to come in who he was not going to be able to meet. He had to retire at some point; if anything he retired for good six years too late. Manila should have been his last fight.