BoxRec - User contributions [en]

Category talk:World Champions By Weight Class

2011-11-05T21:09:47Z

Boroto: FUCK BOXREC, THEIR PEDO ADMINISTRATORS LIKE MATT WOUTER JOHN RIC MARINA, DONT BUY ANYTHINF FROM THEIR SHITTY SHOPS, EVERYTHING IS STOLEN GOODS! TRASH MUST DIE!

==Inconsistent treatment of inaugural title fights by BoxRec and title lineage listings==
When the WBA and tFUCK BOXREC, THEIR PEDO ADMINISTRATORS LIKE MATT WOUTER JOHN RIC MARINA, DONT BUY ANYTHINF FROM THEIR SHITTY SHOPS, EVERYTHING IS STOLEN GOODS!he WBC started to award their titles in the 1960s they used to pick the universally recognized world champions as their titlists or in case of the WBA the NBA champions if there were such. That's likely the reason why the newly created titles are not marked vacant in BoxRec when they were at stake for the first time. In contrast to that, the title lineage listings treat them as if they had indeed been vacant: The total sum of title defenses of a weight division's inaugural WBA or WBC champion does not count his first fight for the title -- as if that bout had been for the vacant title and thus could not be deemed a defense.

'''Therefore either the first fights for the new titles should be marked vacant in BoxRec or the total sums of title defenses should count the first fights for the new titles as well.''' In the end, it amounts to the question when the new champions' reigns as WBA or WBC titlists really began -- before or after the first fights for the new titles.

The issue occurs in the eight traditional weight divisions, the light middleweight (regarding the WBC title only), the light welterweight, and the super featherweight division. There is a similar situation in terms of the beginnings of the WBA heavyweight title (Look [[Talk:WBA Heavyweight Champion|here]].) and the WBC heavyweight title (Look [[Talk:WBC Heavyweight Champion|here]].)

Analogously the IBF crowned champions even before the respective title was at stake for the first time, resulting in the same inconsistent treatment by BoxRec and some title lineage listings as described above. (The issue occurs in the light heavyweight, the middleweight, the welterweight, and the light welterweight division.)--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 07:54, 23 November 2007 (CST)

Category talk:Deaths By Year

2011-11-05T21:09:17Z

Boroto: FUCK BOXREC, THEIR PEDO ADMINISTRATORS LIKE MATT WOUTER JOHN RIC MARINA, DONT BUY ANYTHINF FROM THEIR SHITTY SHOPS, EVERYTHING IS STOLEN GOODS!

I've written a hook <deaths>YYYY</deaths> where YYYY is a year from 1900 or if blank gives the last 50 FUCK BOXREC, THEIR PEDO ADMINISTRATORS LIKE MATT WOUTER JOHN RIC MARINA, DONT BUY ANYTHINF FROM THEIR SHITTY SHOPS, EVERYTHING IS STOLEN GOODS!deaths to date. It should make death tracking a lot easier and maybe some of the categories unnecessary.--[[User:John]]

[http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_b_0700.htm Compilation of ring deaths]--[[User:Matt Tegen]]

==Do We Really Need This "New" Category?==
I thought this series of "Death Year" categories was to start only from when the Wiki was launched, back in 2005 or 2006. Otherwise, if we are now going to have such a category for every year of deaths, that's at least another hundred potential categories. Lordy! That begins to make a mockery of what "category" means. Category should be a relative limited family of pages. If you start to have hundreds of categories--many with only a handful of entries--it starts to lose its purpose. Let's all please be a bit more cautious before creating a "new" category. I think this one should be deleted. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 07:57, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

==Response==
You raise a valid point. On the other hand, I feel that all information should be categorized in a way that researchers can find it quickly & efficiently. While a researcher working on Ring Fatalities would be able to find their information easily, a researcher looking for those who died in a specific year would not. As far as I know, there is no current database or publication that provides this information in its totality by year. I think that to be totally accurate for research purposes, information should not only be as acurate as possible, but should be categorized so researchers can find what they need without spending hours and hours of searching because a category is not listed. As an example, if I, as a researcher, wanted to find a listing of all deaths in 2001, whether in or out of the ring, how would I find that information without looking through every person listed in the BoxRec database? Just my thoughts... Tony

==Debate Continued==
Tony, I wonder how many researchers would really be looking into, for example, who all died in 2001, to make such a category worthwhile. For what reason? Anyway, assuming there would be many who'd like this info, you can use the search box on every page here, and type in the search term "died 2001". Although you will get some results you were not searching for, you will also get most, if not all, pages where it is specifically mentioned that a death occurred in 2001. Try it. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 10:26, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

==Discussion Ended ?!?==
Ok Ric, I tried it and did get a listing. Why someone would want that info I think is a mute point when it comes to research. I have been asked for information from researchers that I thought was strange, but who am I to question their reasons why?!? I think we're just here to provide the best information we can in the most easily accessible format. I have no problem deleting the link. This is why you're here, Ric - you're the man!! Tony

User talk:Matt

2011-11-05T21:08:25Z

Boroto: FUCK BOXREC, THEIR PEDO ADMINISTRATORS LIKE MATT WOUTER JOHN RIC MARINA, DONT BUY ANYTHINF FROM THEIR SHITTY SHOPS, EVERYTHING IS STOLEN GOODS!

Please sign all comments, and enter them in the appropriate section, or if there is not one create another <s>u lowly dirty motsuperfagherfucker enjoy spam, by blockin me u give me satisfaction of having good time n laughin at u IF THIS GUY CANT FUCK MENmothefucker, enjoy upcomin spam for rest of your fuckin gay life n when im in your area i ll pay u nice visit!r ulols aware i already have 20 accountFUCK BOXREC, THEIR PEDO ADMINISTRATORS LIKE MATT WOUTER JOHN RIC MARINA, DONT BUY ANYTHINF FROM THEIR SHITTY SHOPS, EVERYTHING IS STOLEN GOODS!s u ll never find by ii ll write more shit under wikipedos about u all the time on youtubep in good standings, blocking me is like blowing in the wind!one. Unless you commented in error, please do not delete your text. I would prefer that the discussion remain here, as a record of what has transpired, and for possible future reference.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 14:37, 17 Jan 2006 (CST)

For older discussions see: [[User talk:Matt Tegen/Archive1]]

== Venues & Clubs ==

Matt, but the [[:Category:Venues & Clubs|Venues & Clubs]] category DOES include athletic clubs, in addition to boxing venues. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 12:09, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

I think boxing clubs (gyms) should be separate from venues or old athletic clubs that staged bouts. I moved the category to gyms. I think the category is poorly named anyway, it should probably be "Boxing Venues".--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 12:46, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

== Talk/Discussion Pages ==

Matt, why cannot people use the talk and discussion sections of pages to post their opinions about the subject of the page and to "discuss" it? To get aboard their soapbox if they so choose? Just wondering --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 17:35, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

He isn't discussing the contents of the article or how to improve it, which is what the talk page should be about. He is complaining about the number of weight divisons. I'd prefer to not encourage soapboxing, because I don't want the contributions to the wiki to become people opineing on different subjects on the talk pages. See: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#How_to_use_article_talk_pages] for Wikipedia's guidelines.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:44, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

== International Boxing Council ==
Mat, I will not do name change, however if you check old newspapers you will know that they were called the International Boxing Club, headed by Jim Norris, Truman Gibson (secretary) and few others and that was the official name. I did inform Ric, it is up to you guys to decide if some articles deserve to be correct/ed or not. I do have pdf files with that name but due to copyright laws I will not share with anybody outside my circle.

== Fight Codes ==

Hey Matt, just wondering what I can do to figure out a fight code without the "blue books" that used to link from boxrec.com fight pages. Also, is the removal of the blue book links a permanent change with the new update? Sure hope not... (Sweetscientsist wrote)

No, it's not permanent. You may just want to be patient and wait.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 21:14, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

== Lennox Lewis page ==

gene tunney did not defeat every fighter he faced as a pro. he fought to a draw with tommy gavigan, fought to nc with renault, and technically fought to a no-decision with johnny risko.

riddick bowe has not defeated every fighter either. had a no-contest with buster mathis jr.

only marciano and johansson should be listed. the only current title holder would be chagaev that has defeated every opponent.

== Maybe the following talk pages require editing/deleting ==

[[Talk:Domenico Spada vs. Mustafa Karagol]]

--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 17:50, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

== Answer to the Sysop question ==

I should say that English is not my native language and I have no access to sources, which means that I could basically only continue to compare data within the database trying to find inaccuracies and errors. If that is no problem, I would like to become a Sysop, of course. If it is, I'm looking forward to going on as a common user.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 13:29, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

The database should be very accurate, particularly on dates. It's more likely that someone would see an error there, and inform us of it in the forum, than someone seeing an error in the wiki, as you are doing. I would suggest you fix it yourself, unless you have good reason to doubt that the record database is wrong.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 13:55, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

== Deleting certain fight pages? ==

Some fight pages do not provide other information than the BoxRec database: Only the fight code is inserted, only the fact that a certain bout was the fighter's pro debut is mentioned (which is obvious assuming that the boxer's BoxRec Fight Record is complete) or only details are given which can be found in the BoxRec database, too. Thus clicking on these fight pages will not supply the users with further information (assuming that they are entering the fight page from the BoxRec database, which should be the usual case) so that deleting them seems to be a good idea (to save the users' time). On the other hand, editors might want to add more information to these pages in the future so that having deleted them would cause more work.

Example:

[[Fight:34988]] to be compared with [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=009314&cat=boxer Ricky Hatton in the BoxRec database]

or even:

[[Wladimir Klitschko vs. Fabio Eduardo Moli]] to be compared with [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=007035&cat=boxer Wladimir Klitschko in the BoxRec database] (I think providing the opportunity to click on the boxers' and the officials' names or on a category is not "enough" to create a fight page as users probably hope to find additional information when clicking on a "blue book" bout comment icon.)

Deleting or keeping them? And what if the current version of a page (like [[Fight:1112095|this]]) does not provide further information while past versions do (like [http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight%3A1112095&diff=77532&oldid=74772 these]?--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 12:06, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

I agree, I don't see why you need to create a page, when all you add is what is already appearing in BoxRec. I know I only create pages when I have comments about the bout to make. You should ask JollyDee why he created all those pages.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:46, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

So shall pages containing information which does not exceed what can be found in BoxRec be deleted? And what about the case described in the last paragraph of my comment above?--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 15:04, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

If you don't see ANY additional information in the wiki, than can be found in BoxRec, then delete it.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:58, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

I know I'm coming in late on this debate, but I do see some value in certain pages that contain no additional information (in comparaison to what appears in the database). Title fights are a good example. A number of editors have devoted significant time to create tables for title fights and have included links to the wiki books within those tables (see one I recently created [[NABO Heavyweight Title Fights|here]]).

While I agree that a user that gets to the wiki blue book from the BoxRec database will not find any additional information in a simple "fight code page", the same cannot be said for the user who reaches that page from the encyclopaedia. The latter doesn't have direct access to the database (its a couple of clicks away).

For the same reason, I believe that simple "boxer code pages" have some value as they enable the creation of links from the encyclopaedia.

It's probably too late, as I see that you've been implementing the policy above, but I wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 19:03, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not too late. I was even going to express the same thoughts but was beaten to the punch.

Users who are watching BoxRec boxer pages do not benefit from boxer and fight pages in the encyclopaedia which merely show code-generated information as these data can already be found on the BoxRec boxer pages themselves. When such users click on open blue book icons, they don't gain further information, but lose time instead.

On the other hand, users who are reading in the encyclopaedia benefit from links to those pages as even code-generated data are additional information from their perspective.

How can this conflict of interests be resolved? Assuming that fight and boxer pages have been moved to proper titles, pages of the form "Fight:12345" and "Human:12345" have become redirect pages connecting the fight and boxer pages to which they redirect to BoxRec. These redirects ought to be deleted so that the blue book icons close. Thus BoxRec users would not open encyclopaedia pages with no additional data any more while encyclopaedia users would still be provided with links to boxer and fight pages which merely show code-generated information.

This procedure would conjure up the danger of duplicate pages though. When an editor sees a closed blue book icon he might start editing it and a duplicate page would finally be created. If he then tried to move the newly created page to a title which exactly agrees with the title of an already existing duplicate page, there would be a notification and the editor would probably merge the pages. But still reorganization would be required and some bits of information entered on the newer page might be the same which had already been shown on the older page so that the editor would have done superfluous work. To save him this trouble there could be guidelines on the [[Help:Contents|Help page]] telling editors to first find out if the fight or boxer page he wants to work on already exists by using the search box. If an editor finds such a page he is to create a corresponding redirect page, which will open the blue book icon, and edit the page he has found.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 01:21, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm more opposed to the PetePod (Red) edits that seem to be done for no apparent purpose. Edits that are for a constructive purpose such as yours are fine, if they are in the context of a project such as yours.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 05:06, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

== Hugh Pat Floyd ==

What do think, is this is also him ?
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=405484&cat=referee

[[User:John|JohnShep]] 19:59, 28 September 2007 (CDT)

I think it probably is, since Hugh Pat Floyd was from London, and it looks like the referee worked out of London.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 10:46, 1 October 2007 (CDT)

== Title succession boxes ==
Soon I'd like to go over the wiki pages of world champions adding title succession boxes where they are missing (as far as WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO titles are concerned) and correcting them where they do not agree with what the BoxRec database says. I assume interim championships are not to be mentioned in those boxes as they do not occur in the lists of title lineages either.

What I've noticed while taking a look at those pages in advance is that in the middle box of a title succession box the dash between the dates that mark the beginning and the end of a champion's reign often lacks a space before it (or there is a space behind it where there should be none).

An example is [[Jesse James Leija|Jesse James Leija's]] succession box, which looks as follows up to now:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994– 17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

Should a space be both before and after the dash?:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994 – 17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

Or should there be no space around the dash?:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994–17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

The main wikipedia seems to prefer spaces around the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endash#En_dash en dash], if I get the second paragraph of the usage guidelines section right.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 14:21, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

There should be spaces around the dash, I think.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:35, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

== "Retired" vs. "Vacated" ==
Matt, would you mind replying to Emaster's question to me regarding "Retired" vs. "Vacated"? Thanks in advance. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 20:04, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

I don't want to cause a fuss with my little questions; the latest of them are on Ric's [[User talk:Ric#"Retired" vs. "Vacated"|talk page]], which I'm simply going to handle as follows unless I'll receive other instructions: 
1. If a champion has vacated his title and really never fought again he retired. 
2. If a champion has vacated his title, but returned to the ring later he vacated his title.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 21:57, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

If a fighter said he was retiring, thereby giving up his title, he retired in my book. In the case of Ali, his third title reign ended by retirement, he wasn't stripped or he didn't abandon his title. I know when I added many of those title boxes, I took care to note whether someone retired or vacated. Also, I have been corrected by others who have caught my mistakes. If you have questions you should be able to find a lot of stuff through a google search and a little digging. If not, then ask, somebody here can probably figure it out, unless it is some of the recent shenanigans that the alphabet soup game pull off.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 23:00, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Your explanation of Ali's case provides the definition I sought for; my simple definiton offered above is therefore not applicable. Whenever I see differing statements regarding the question "retired or vacated?" or "vacated or stripped" respectively while comparing the lists of title lineages with the title succession boxes on boxer pages I'm going to perform a google search to find out which statement was correct.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 10:41, 2 November 2007 (CDT)

== Issues now discussed on other pages ==

=== Code and resulting data ===
*[[Help talk:Contents#Code and resulting data]]

=== Boxers/Fights missing in BoxRec ===
*[[Help talk:Contents#Boxers/Fights missing in BoxRec]]

=== Which fights were for the WBA or the WBC heavyweight title? ===
*[[Talk:WBA Heavyweight Champion]]
*[[Talk:WBC Heavyweight Champion]]

=== More fights for vacant world titles? ===
*[http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=84097 Fights for vacant or nonvacant world titles?]
*[[Category talk:World Champions By Weight Class#Inconsistent treatment of inaugural title fights by BoxRec and title lineage listings]]

--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 22:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Quincy Daniels ==

Matt,

The record and biography of the following boxer:

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:28823

actually represent two people. Quincey Daniels, the 1960 Olympian, made his pro debut in 1965 against Frank Jennings; they both weighed 145 1/4, according to AP. The other Daniels turned pro in 1970, he was 22 at the time. Could you split these two records and make the necessary corrections?

Thank you very much in advance!

== World Champion Category Text ==

Matt, please see the discussion today between Emaster and me. What do you suggest the text say? Something like, perhaps: "A listing of those who have held a welterweight (or whatever division) world title, as recognized by one of the <nowiki>[[:Category:Sanctioning Bodies|four major sanctioning bodies]]</nowiki>." --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 18:51, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I would say "generally recognized", which of course means the current "major" four, and whatever else constituted "major" in the past (NBA/NYSAC)--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 23:09, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== Joe Smallwood ==
Matt,trying to change hometown of Joe Smallwood to Wilmington, DE, doesn't work, Bert

Don't know what to say. I don't understand enought about how the BoxRec database works with the wiki.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 20:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

== Alexander Abraham ==

Alexander Abraham being arrested for kicking Miranda in the head is apparently a hoax.
See: http://www.fightnews.com/fightnews_2/headlines//EkEuEyyZyAVgXPdQgb.html
--[[User:Fosho|Fosho]] 14:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Card in Brossard (Quebec) of July 8 ==

Matt, I see you've erased my entries posting the weights of all the fighters following the weigh-in for this card. Any reason why I shouldn't have done that? I usually post the weights on fight day, and return after the fight to complete the description of the fight. Let me know. Thanks. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]]

I didn't understand that you were going to return later and write reports. I assumed that you were just listing weights in the wiki, which I think is a waste, since the weights are available on BoxRec.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 00:06, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok. I apologize for that Matt, I was just trying to cheat a little... I've now recreated the [[Pier Olivier Cote vs. Juan Carlos Pastrana]] page, as the bout just ended with a TKO2 victory for Cote. Going forward I'll wait to have some non-basic information before creating an entry.

Thank you for answering my question. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]]

== Sergey Sorokin ==

Matt, there appear to be two separate pages for Sergey Sorokin. The first here: http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Human:92870,
and the second here: http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Sergey_Sorokin.
I believe the first one should be deleted.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Now the first page listed by [[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] redirects to the other one.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 22:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Deaths ==

Matt, we have a page '''Deaths in 2008''' http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Deaths_in_2008 and a category '''2008 Deaths''' http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Category:2008_Deaths, it seems to me that this is unnecessary ?
[[User:John|JohnShep]] 12:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

The Deaths in 2008 is sort of like a short obituary, ala wikipedia's recent deaths. If we ditch the category or the list and just go to the automation, I think people are going to not bother with adding the details and creating the bio pages.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Fairy Nuff :-) [[User:John|JohnShep]] 21:02, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

== Brizel ==

Is there anything to do about this guy. His subjective text is driving me nuts! [[User:Rvk2007|Rvk2007]] 17:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate his energy and desire to add information. But I'm in agreement that he needs to stop with the subjective test. I don't think communication works with him. We can either keep trying to explain our feeling to him, or tell him that we will give him a short ban to get his attention.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

For what its worth, he sent me a nice e-mail the other day apologizing for some of his edits to the [[Sebastien Demers vs. Dionisio Miranda]] fight. He's certainly misguided, but he means well. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 19:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

You're right Matt. I'm getting quite discouraged at this point as well. I was hoping the message was getting through, but it appears I was wrong. I'm really short on answers at this point. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:23, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Matt, I'm now beyond discouraged with Brizel. I'm to the point where I strongly recommend banning the guy. Clearly, he's not interested in making an effort.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 01:10, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you. I've tended to be inactive from BoxRec from time-to-time lately, but I find myself looking over his edits when I do check in. Reasoning with him has been pointless, as he has not even acknowledged the people trying to reason with him. I will ban him for a month, and see if he makes any progress when he returns or starts a dialog to try and work through the issues people have with his edits.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Matt. I think you made the right decision. Nothing else was working.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 23:48, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Well Matt, it seems our friend is back to his old ways. He inexplicably erased all of the content Sweetscientist and I had created for the [[Humberto Soto vs. Benoit Gaudet]] page and added his usual brand of "objective" analysis.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 16:07, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ring Titles ==

In researching fighters recognized as champions by Ring Magazine and awarded the Ring Title for their respective weight classes, I cannot help but notice that boxrec and the encyclopedia do not mention these titles at all. Is this by design because they are not believed to be from a legitimate sanctioning body or is it simply that the information has not been added? It would seem to some that the Ring titles were as prestigious as those of the big three. Yet no pages containing Ring title lineages or the succession boxes are done for fighters winning these belts. Is it wanted to be kept this way and would this information likely be deleted? or is it information just waiting to be added? Thanks - Ben Griffin --[[User:Sweetscientist|Sweetscientist]] 22:18, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

We have not recognized the recent incarnation of the Ring titles, and therefore don't recognize the Ring's older titles, though they usually match the so-called "World title" of the time.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 00:19, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

==Canadian Lightweight Title Bouts==
Matt, thank you for bringing those fights to my attention. The Talhan fight makes perfect sense as he had won the title in 1990 and that would have been his first defense.

I'm more puzzled by the second fight, as the CBF records show Grant as being the champion uninterrupted from 1992 to 1995 (that said, they are not particularly reliable). The easiest thing to do is to contact Grant himself, which is exactly what I will do tomorrow. Maybe he can shed light on the situation.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 05:23, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

==Are Blows Counts To Difficult For Boxrec ?==
As boxing research has grown, counting blows has become a useful tool for understanding the totality of a bout. Why are some boxrec editors deleting such information? You have the best site for disseminating information. It can be done usually in one or two lines. What is the problem?-- Dr Data Box 23:45,3 August, 2009.

Nobody understands what controls and events area. As it stands right now they lack credibility with people who use this site. People question what it is exactly these statistics mean. You need to raise the level of awareness of what these stats are. I know you have published this in magazines and IBRO in the past, but I think today's boxing fan either is not aware of your statistics or gives no credibility to them.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 14:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

They are explained in Wikipedia. Don't you mean you don't want to consider them? Why delete the blows, a very legitimate statistic, over a personal whim?

I'm not deleting the punch stats, as that is a statistic the general boxing public understands. If I am, apologize for the unintended mistake. The problem with controls and events is that the general boxing public is clueless to their meaning. Nobody else, aside from you, is coming in the wiki and posting in these stats after bouts. I would think for their to be some credibility we would expect to see others understand the metrics and put them, and not have people asking what it is that controls and events are, as is the case now. Baseball for example, has a lot of stats. Everyone understands ERA or Slugging percentage, and if you are maybe a little more tuned in, OPS. But the general public doesn't understand VORP (Value over replacement player) or DERA (defense adjusted ERA). Unless more people understand what you are doing, you really are almost doing this for your own amusement.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 02:33, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I think I understand what he's doing but consider it hopelessly subjective - you'd have to be a mindreader to make it work. You can't have one person sitting in front of the television / youtube trying to figure what it was that the boxer intended to do and than present his findings as - baseball-like - statistics.--[[User:Wouter|Wouter]] 06:44, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Southpaw or orthodox world champions? ==

Matt, you added the [[:Category:Southpaw World Champions|Southpaw World Champions category]] on the boxer pages of the following boxers: [[Adonis Rivas]], [[Cassius Baloyi]], [[Celestino Caballero]], and [[Duilio Loi]]. Their stances are all registered as orthodox on their BoxRec profiles, though.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 18:54, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Then delete the category. We must have had the wrong stance at the time.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 22:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I thought that maybe the database was wrong. However, I'll remove the categories from the boxer pages.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 23:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

== Canadian Flyweight Championship Bout ==

Thank you Matt. Much appreciated.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:45, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

== punchstats ==

hey man it took me forever to track down those stats,
I had to separate that from the bullshit fan forums punchstats, until i got the fight in danish, and the tv commentators read it out, my danish isn't great but i can now confirm those stats i posted are 100% accurate

== Canadian Flyweight Title ==

Thank you very much for the information Matt. I've corrected the lineage and entered the bouts accordingly. Great research by the way. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 17:36, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== Tremayne Johnson ==
Matt, you keep erasing Tremayne Johnson's profile, saying no record of fighter but he's not a fighter he is a trainer, so please stop erasing him.

Ok, I see that now. Please create his bio in a format consistent with how other non-boxer biographies are written. I think you confused me, by trying to make the biography look like a boxers, which made me think that you were creating a page for a boxer that did not exist.--[[User:Matt|Matt]] 23:39, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

== Show Code ==

Hi Matt,
I have introduced a show code now (still working on it) see http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Show:223657

Cheers, [[User:John|JohnShep]] 17:27, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Matt

2011-11-05T21:05:44Z

Boroto: lol enjoy shit about you forever cursed dogs amen!

Please sign all comments, and enter them in the appropriate section, or if there is not one create another <s>u lowly dirty motsuperfagherfucker enjoy spam, by blockin me u give me satisfaction of having good time n laughin at u IF THIS GUY CANT FUCK MENmothefucker, enjoy upcomin spam for rest of your fuckin gay life n when im in your area i ll pay u nice visit!r ulols aware i already have 20 accounts u ll never find by ii ll write more shit under wikipedos about u all the time on youtubep in good standings, blocking me is like blowing in the wind!one. Unless you commented in error, please do not delete your text. I would prefer that the discussion remain here, as a record of what has transpired, and for possible future reference.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 14:37, 17 Jan 2006 (CST)

For older discussions see: [[User talk:Matt Tegen/Archive1]]

== Venues & Clubs ==

Matt, but the [[:Category:Venues & Clubs|Venues & Clubs]] category DOES include athletic clubs, in addition to boxing venues. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 12:09, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

I think boxing clubs (gyms) should be separate from venues or old athletic clubs that staged bouts. I moved the category to gyms. I think the category is poorly named anyway, it should probably be "Boxing Venues".--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 12:46, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

== Talk/Discussion Pages ==

Matt, why cannot people use the talk and discussion sections of pages to post their opinions about the subject of the page and to "discuss" it? To get aboard their soapbox if they so choose? Just wondering --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 17:35, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

He isn't discussing the contents of the article or how to improve it, which is what the talk page should be about. He is complaining about the number of weight divisons. I'd prefer to not encourage soapboxing, because I don't want the contributions to the wiki to become people opineing on different subjects on the talk pages. See: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#How_to_use_article_talk_pages] for Wikipedia's guidelines.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:44, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

== International Boxing Council ==
Mat, I will not do name change, however if you check old newspapers you will know that they were called the International Boxing Club, headed by Jim Norris, Truman Gibson (secretary) and few others and that was the official name. I did inform Ric, it is up to you guys to decide if some articles deserve to be correct/ed or not. I do have pdf files with that name but due to copyright laws I will not share with anybody outside my circle.

== Fight Codes ==

Hey Matt, just wondering what I can do to figure out a fight code without the "blue books" that used to link from boxrec.com fight pages. Also, is the removal of the blue book links a permanent change with the new update? Sure hope not... (Sweetscientsist wrote)

No, it's not permanent. You may just want to be patient and wait.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 21:14, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

== Lennox Lewis page ==

gene tunney did not defeat every fighter he faced as a pro. he fought to a draw with tommy gavigan, fought to nc with renault, and technically fought to a no-decision with johnny risko.

riddick bowe has not defeated every fighter either. had a no-contest with buster mathis jr.

only marciano and johansson should be listed. the only current title holder would be chagaev that has defeated every opponent.

== Maybe the following talk pages require editing/deleting ==

[[Talk:Domenico Spada vs. Mustafa Karagol]]

--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 17:50, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

== Answer to the Sysop question ==

I should say that English is not my native language and I have no access to sources, which means that I could basically only continue to compare data within the database trying to find inaccuracies and errors. If that is no problem, I would like to become a Sysop, of course. If it is, I'm looking forward to going on as a common user.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 13:29, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

The database should be very accurate, particularly on dates. It's more likely that someone would see an error there, and inform us of it in the forum, than someone seeing an error in the wiki, as you are doing. I would suggest you fix it yourself, unless you have good reason to doubt that the record database is wrong.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 13:55, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

== Deleting certain fight pages? ==

Some fight pages do not provide other information than the BoxRec database: Only the fight code is inserted, only the fact that a certain bout was the fighter's pro debut is mentioned (which is obvious assuming that the boxer's BoxRec Fight Record is complete) or only details are given which can be found in the BoxRec database, too. Thus clicking on these fight pages will not supply the users with further information (assuming that they are entering the fight page from the BoxRec database, which should be the usual case) so that deleting them seems to be a good idea (to save the users' time). On the other hand, editors might want to add more information to these pages in the future so that having deleted them would cause more work.

Example:

[[Fight:34988]] to be compared with [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=009314&cat=boxer Ricky Hatton in the BoxRec database]

or even:

[[Wladimir Klitschko vs. Fabio Eduardo Moli]] to be compared with [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=007035&cat=boxer Wladimir Klitschko in the BoxRec database] (I think providing the opportunity to click on the boxers' and the officials' names or on a category is not "enough" to create a fight page as users probably hope to find additional information when clicking on a "blue book" bout comment icon.)

Deleting or keeping them? And what if the current version of a page (like [[Fight:1112095|this]]) does not provide further information while past versions do (like [http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight%3A1112095&diff=77532&oldid=74772 these]?--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 12:06, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

I agree, I don't see why you need to create a page, when all you add is what is already appearing in BoxRec. I know I only create pages when I have comments about the bout to make. You should ask JollyDee why he created all those pages.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:46, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

So shall pages containing information which does not exceed what can be found in BoxRec be deleted? And what about the case described in the last paragraph of my comment above?--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 15:04, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

If you don't see ANY additional information in the wiki, than can be found in BoxRec, then delete it.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:58, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

I know I'm coming in late on this debate, but I do see some value in certain pages that contain no additional information (in comparaison to what appears in the database). Title fights are a good example. A number of editors have devoted significant time to create tables for title fights and have included links to the wiki books within those tables (see one I recently created [[NABO Heavyweight Title Fights|here]]).

While I agree that a user that gets to the wiki blue book from the BoxRec database will not find any additional information in a simple "fight code page", the same cannot be said for the user who reaches that page from the encyclopaedia. The latter doesn't have direct access to the database (its a couple of clicks away).

For the same reason, I believe that simple "boxer code pages" have some value as they enable the creation of links from the encyclopaedia.

It's probably too late, as I see that you've been implementing the policy above, but I wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 19:03, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not too late. I was even going to express the same thoughts but was beaten to the punch.

Users who are watching BoxRec boxer pages do not benefit from boxer and fight pages in the encyclopaedia which merely show code-generated information as these data can already be found on the BoxRec boxer pages themselves. When such users click on open blue book icons, they don't gain further information, but lose time instead.

On the other hand, users who are reading in the encyclopaedia benefit from links to those pages as even code-generated data are additional information from their perspective.

How can this conflict of interests be resolved? Assuming that fight and boxer pages have been moved to proper titles, pages of the form "Fight:12345" and "Human:12345" have become redirect pages connecting the fight and boxer pages to which they redirect to BoxRec. These redirects ought to be deleted so that the blue book icons close. Thus BoxRec users would not open encyclopaedia pages with no additional data any more while encyclopaedia users would still be provided with links to boxer and fight pages which merely show code-generated information.

This procedure would conjure up the danger of duplicate pages though. When an editor sees a closed blue book icon he might start editing it and a duplicate page would finally be created. If he then tried to move the newly created page to a title which exactly agrees with the title of an already existing duplicate page, there would be a notification and the editor would probably merge the pages. But still reorganization would be required and some bits of information entered on the newer page might be the same which had already been shown on the older page so that the editor would have done superfluous work. To save him this trouble there could be guidelines on the [[Help:Contents|Help page]] telling editors to first find out if the fight or boxer page he wants to work on already exists by using the search box. If an editor finds such a page he is to create a corresponding redirect page, which will open the blue book icon, and edit the page he has found.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 01:21, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm more opposed to the PetePod (Red) edits that seem to be done for no apparent purpose. Edits that are for a constructive purpose such as yours are fine, if they are in the context of a project such as yours.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 05:06, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

== Hugh Pat Floyd ==

What do think, is this is also him ?
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=405484&cat=referee

[[User:John|JohnShep]] 19:59, 28 September 2007 (CDT)

I think it probably is, since Hugh Pat Floyd was from London, and it looks like the referee worked out of London.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 10:46, 1 October 2007 (CDT)

== Title succession boxes ==
Soon I'd like to go over the wiki pages of world champions adding title succession boxes where they are missing (as far as WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO titles are concerned) and correcting them where they do not agree with what the BoxRec database says. I assume interim championships are not to be mentioned in those boxes as they do not occur in the lists of title lineages either.

What I've noticed while taking a look at those pages in advance is that in the middle box of a title succession box the dash between the dates that mark the beginning and the end of a champion's reign often lacks a space before it (or there is a space behind it where there should be none).

An example is [[Jesse James Leija|Jesse James Leija's]] succession box, which looks as follows up to now:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994– 17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

Should a space be both before and after the dash?:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994 – 17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

Or should there be no space around the dash?:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994–17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

The main wikipedia seems to prefer spaces around the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endash#En_dash en dash], if I get the second paragraph of the usage guidelines section right.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 14:21, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

There should be spaces around the dash, I think.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:35, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

== "Retired" vs. "Vacated" ==
Matt, would you mind replying to Emaster's question to me regarding "Retired" vs. "Vacated"? Thanks in advance. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 20:04, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

I don't want to cause a fuss with my little questions; the latest of them are on Ric's [[User talk:Ric#"Retired" vs. "Vacated"|talk page]], which I'm simply going to handle as follows unless I'll receive other instructions: 
1. If a champion has vacated his title and really never fought again he retired. 
2. If a champion has vacated his title, but returned to the ring later he vacated his title.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 21:57, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

If a fighter said he was retiring, thereby giving up his title, he retired in my book. In the case of Ali, his third title reign ended by retirement, he wasn't stripped or he didn't abandon his title. I know when I added many of those title boxes, I took care to note whether someone retired or vacated. Also, I have been corrected by others who have caught my mistakes. If you have questions you should be able to find a lot of stuff through a google search and a little digging. If not, then ask, somebody here can probably figure it out, unless it is some of the recent shenanigans that the alphabet soup game pull off.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 23:00, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Your explanation of Ali's case provides the definition I sought for; my simple definiton offered above is therefore not applicable. Whenever I see differing statements regarding the question "retired or vacated?" or "vacated or stripped" respectively while comparing the lists of title lineages with the title succession boxes on boxer pages I'm going to perform a google search to find out which statement was correct.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 10:41, 2 November 2007 (CDT)

== Issues now discussed on other pages ==

=== Code and resulting data ===
*[[Help talk:Contents#Code and resulting data]]

=== Boxers/Fights missing in BoxRec ===
*[[Help talk:Contents#Boxers/Fights missing in BoxRec]]

=== Which fights were for the WBA or the WBC heavyweight title? ===
*[[Talk:WBA Heavyweight Champion]]
*[[Talk:WBC Heavyweight Champion]]

=== More fights for vacant world titles? ===
*[http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=84097 Fights for vacant or nonvacant world titles?]
*[[Category talk:World Champions By Weight Class#Inconsistent treatment of inaugural title fights by BoxRec and title lineage listings]]

--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 22:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Quincy Daniels ==

Matt,

The record and biography of the following boxer:

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:28823

actually represent two people. Quincey Daniels, the 1960 Olympian, made his pro debut in 1965 against Frank Jennings; they both weighed 145 1/4, according to AP. The other Daniels turned pro in 1970, he was 22 at the time. Could you split these two records and make the necessary corrections?

Thank you very much in advance!

== World Champion Category Text ==

Matt, please see the discussion today between Emaster and me. What do you suggest the text say? Something like, perhaps: "A listing of those who have held a welterweight (or whatever division) world title, as recognized by one of the <nowiki>[[:Category:Sanctioning Bodies|four major sanctioning bodies]]</nowiki>." --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 18:51, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I would say "generally recognized", which of course means the current "major" four, and whatever else constituted "major" in the past (NBA/NYSAC)--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 23:09, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== Joe Smallwood ==
Matt,trying to change hometown of Joe Smallwood to Wilmington, DE, doesn't work, Bert

Don't know what to say. I don't understand enought about how the BoxRec database works with the wiki.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 20:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

== Alexander Abraham ==

Alexander Abraham being arrested for kicking Miranda in the head is apparently a hoax.
See: http://www.fightnews.com/fightnews_2/headlines//EkEuEyyZyAVgXPdQgb.html
--[[User:Fosho|Fosho]] 14:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Card in Brossard (Quebec) of July 8 ==

Matt, I see you've erased my entries posting the weights of all the fighters following the weigh-in for this card. Any reason why I shouldn't have done that? I usually post the weights on fight day, and return after the fight to complete the description of the fight. Let me know. Thanks. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]]

I didn't understand that you were going to return later and write reports. I assumed that you were just listing weights in the wiki, which I think is a waste, since the weights are available on BoxRec.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 00:06, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok. I apologize for that Matt, I was just trying to cheat a little... I've now recreated the [[Pier Olivier Cote vs. Juan Carlos Pastrana]] page, as the bout just ended with a TKO2 victory for Cote. Going forward I'll wait to have some non-basic information before creating an entry.

Thank you for answering my question. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]]

== Sergey Sorokin ==

Matt, there appear to be two separate pages for Sergey Sorokin. The first here: http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Human:92870,
and the second here: http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Sergey_Sorokin.
I believe the first one should be deleted.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Now the first page listed by [[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] redirects to the other one.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 22:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Deaths ==

Matt, we have a page '''Deaths in 2008''' http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Deaths_in_2008 and a category '''2008 Deaths''' http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Category:2008_Deaths, it seems to me that this is unnecessary ?
[[User:John|JohnShep]] 12:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

The Deaths in 2008 is sort of like a short obituary, ala wikipedia's recent deaths. If we ditch the category or the list and just go to the automation, I think people are going to not bother with adding the details and creating the bio pages.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Fairy Nuff :-) [[User:John|JohnShep]] 21:02, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

== Brizel ==

Is there anything to do about this guy. His subjective text is driving me nuts! [[User:Rvk2007|Rvk2007]] 17:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate his energy and desire to add information. But I'm in agreement that he needs to stop with the subjective test. I don't think communication works with him. We can either keep trying to explain our feeling to him, or tell him that we will give him a short ban to get his attention.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

For what its worth, he sent me a nice e-mail the other day apologizing for some of his edits to the [[Sebastien Demers vs. Dionisio Miranda]] fight. He's certainly misguided, but he means well. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 19:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

You're right Matt. I'm getting quite discouraged at this point as well. I was hoping the message was getting through, but it appears I was wrong. I'm really short on answers at this point. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:23, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Matt, I'm now beyond discouraged with Brizel. I'm to the point where I strongly recommend banning the guy. Clearly, he's not interested in making an effort.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 01:10, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you. I've tended to be inactive from BoxRec from time-to-time lately, but I find myself looking over his edits when I do check in. Reasoning with him has been pointless, as he has not even acknowledged the people trying to reason with him. I will ban him for a month, and see if he makes any progress when he returns or starts a dialog to try and work through the issues people have with his edits.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Matt. I think you made the right decision. Nothing else was working.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 23:48, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Well Matt, it seems our friend is back to his old ways. He inexplicably erased all of the content Sweetscientist and I had created for the [[Humberto Soto vs. Benoit Gaudet]] page and added his usual brand of "objective" analysis.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 16:07, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ring Titles ==

In researching fighters recognized as champions by Ring Magazine and awarded the Ring Title for their respective weight classes, I cannot help but notice that boxrec and the encyclopedia do not mention these titles at all. Is this by design because they are not believed to be from a legitimate sanctioning body or is it simply that the information has not been added? It would seem to some that the Ring titles were as prestigious as those of the big three. Yet no pages containing Ring title lineages or the succession boxes are done for fighters winning these belts. Is it wanted to be kept this way and would this information likely be deleted? or is it information just waiting to be added? Thanks - Ben Griffin --[[User:Sweetscientist|Sweetscientist]] 22:18, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

We have not recognized the recent incarnation of the Ring titles, and therefore don't recognize the Ring's older titles, though they usually match the so-called "World title" of the time.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 00:19, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

==Canadian Lightweight Title Bouts==
Matt, thank you for bringing those fights to my attention. The Talhan fight makes perfect sense as he had won the title in 1990 and that would have been his first defense.

I'm more puzzled by the second fight, as the CBF records show Grant as being the champion uninterrupted from 1992 to 1995 (that said, they are not particularly reliable). The easiest thing to do is to contact Grant himself, which is exactly what I will do tomorrow. Maybe he can shed light on the situation.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 05:23, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

==Are Blows Counts To Difficult For Boxrec ?==
As boxing research has grown, counting blows has become a useful tool for understanding the totality of a bout. Why are some boxrec editors deleting such information? You have the best site for disseminating information. It can be done usually in one or two lines. What is the problem?-- Dr Data Box 23:45,3 August, 2009.

Nobody understands what controls and events area. As it stands right now they lack credibility with people who use this site. People question what it is exactly these statistics mean. You need to raise the level of awareness of what these stats are. I know you have published this in magazines and IBRO in the past, but I think today's boxing fan either is not aware of your statistics or gives no credibility to them.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 14:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

They are explained in Wikipedia. Don't you mean you don't want to consider them? Why delete the blows, a very legitimate statistic, over a personal whim?

I'm not deleting the punch stats, as that is a statistic the general boxing public understands. If I am, apologize for the unintended mistake. The problem with controls and events is that the general boxing public is clueless to their meaning. Nobody else, aside from you, is coming in the wiki and posting in these stats after bouts. I would think for their to be some credibility we would expect to see others understand the metrics and put them, and not have people asking what it is that controls and events are, as is the case now. Baseball for example, has a lot of stats. Everyone understands ERA or Slugging percentage, and if you are maybe a little more tuned in, OPS. But the general public doesn't understand VORP (Value over replacement player) or DERA (defense adjusted ERA). Unless more people understand what you are doing, you really are almost doing this for your own amusement.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 02:33, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I think I understand what he's doing but consider it hopelessly subjective - you'd have to be a mindreader to make it work. You can't have one person sitting in front of the television / youtube trying to figure what it was that the boxer intended to do and than present his findings as - baseball-like - statistics.--[[User:Wouter|Wouter]] 06:44, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Southpaw or orthodox world champions? ==

Matt, you added the [[:Category:Southpaw World Champions|Southpaw World Champions category]] on the boxer pages of the following boxers: [[Adonis Rivas]], [[Cassius Baloyi]], [[Celestino Caballero]], and [[Duilio Loi]]. Their stances are all registered as orthodox on their BoxRec profiles, though.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 18:54, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Then delete the category. We must have had the wrong stance at the time.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 22:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I thought that maybe the database was wrong. However, I'll remove the categories from the boxer pages.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 23:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

== Canadian Flyweight Championship Bout ==

Thank you Matt. Much appreciated.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:45, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

== punchstats ==

hey man it took me forever to track down those stats,
I had to separate that from the bullshit fan forums punchstats, until i got the fight in danish, and the tv commentators read it out, my danish isn't great but i can now confirm those stats i posted are 100% accurate

== Canadian Flyweight Title ==

Thank you very much for the information Matt. I've corrected the lineage and entered the bouts accordingly. Great research by the way. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 17:36, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== Tremayne Johnson ==
Matt, you keep erasing Tremayne Johnson's profile, saying no record of fighter but he's not a fighter he is a trainer, so please stop erasing him.

Ok, I see that now. Please create his bio in a format consistent with how other non-boxer biographies are written. I think you confused me, by trying to make the biography look like a boxers, which made me think that you were creating a page for a boxer that did not exist.--[[User:Matt|Matt]] 23:39, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

== Show Code ==

Hi Matt,
I have introduced a show code now (still working on it) see http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Show:223657

Cheers, [[User:John|JohnShep]] 17:27, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Matt

2011-11-05T21:05:19Z

Boroto: all ingrate administrators here are pedos

Please sign all comments, and enter them in the appropriate section, or if there is not one create another <s>u lowly dirty motsuperfagherfucker enjoy spam, by blockin me u give me satisfaction of having good time n laughin at u IF THIS GUY CANT FUCK MENmothefucker, enjoy upcomin spam for rest of your fuckin gay life n when im in your area i ll pay u nice visit!r ulols aware i already have 20 accounts u ll never find by ip in good standings, blocking me is like blowing in the wind!one. Unless you commented in error, please do not delete your text. I would prefer that the discussion remain here, as a record of what has transpired, and for possible future reference.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 14:37, 17 Jan 2006 (CST)

For older discussions see: [[User talk:Matt Tegen/Archive1]]

== Venues & Clubs ==

Matt, but the [[:Category:Venues & Clubs|Venues & Clubs]] category DOES include athletic clubs, in addition to boxing venues. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 12:09, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

I think boxing clubs (gyms) should be separate from venues or old athletic clubs that staged bouts. I moved the category to gyms. I think the category is poorly named anyway, it should probably be "Boxing Venues".--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 12:46, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

== Talk/Discussion Pages ==

Matt, why cannot people use the talk and discussion sections of pages to post their opinions about the subject of the page and to "discuss" it? To get aboard their soapbox if they so choose? Just wondering --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 17:35, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

He isn't discussing the contents of the article or how to improve it, which is what the talk page should be about. He is complaining about the number of weight divisons. I'd prefer to not encourage soapboxing, because I don't want the contributions to the wiki to become people opineing on different subjects on the talk pages. See: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#How_to_use_article_talk_pages] for Wikipedia's guidelines.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:44, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

== International Boxing Council ==
Mat, I will not do name change, however if you check old newspapers you will know that they were called the International Boxing Club, headed by Jim Norris, Truman Gibson (secretary) and few others and that was the official name. I did inform Ric, it is up to you guys to decide if some articles deserve to be correct/ed or not. I do have pdf files with that name but due to copyright laws I will not share with anybody outside my circle.

== Fight Codes ==

Hey Matt, just wondering what I can do to figure out a fight code without the "blue books" that used to link from boxrec.com fight pages. Also, is the removal of the blue book links a permanent change with the new update? Sure hope not... (Sweetscientsist wrote)

No, it's not permanent. You may just want to be patient and wait.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 21:14, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

== Lennox Lewis page ==

gene tunney did not defeat every fighter he faced as a pro. he fought to a draw with tommy gavigan, fought to nc with renault, and technically fought to a no-decision with johnny risko.

riddick bowe has not defeated every fighter either. had a no-contest with buster mathis jr.

only marciano and johansson should be listed. the only current title holder would be chagaev that has defeated every opponent.

== Maybe the following talk pages require editing/deleting ==

[[Talk:Domenico Spada vs. Mustafa Karagol]]

--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 17:50, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

== Answer to the Sysop question ==

I should say that English is not my native language and I have no access to sources, which means that I could basically only continue to compare data within the database trying to find inaccuracies and errors. If that is no problem, I would like to become a Sysop, of course. If it is, I'm looking forward to going on as a common user.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 13:29, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

The database should be very accurate, particularly on dates. It's more likely that someone would see an error there, and inform us of it in the forum, than someone seeing an error in the wiki, as you are doing. I would suggest you fix it yourself, unless you have good reason to doubt that the record database is wrong.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 13:55, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

== Deleting certain fight pages? ==

Some fight pages do not provide other information than the BoxRec database: Only the fight code is inserted, only the fact that a certain bout was the fighter's pro debut is mentioned (which is obvious assuming that the boxer's BoxRec Fight Record is complete) or only details are given which can be found in the BoxRec database, too. Thus clicking on these fight pages will not supply the users with further information (assuming that they are entering the fight page from the BoxRec database, which should be the usual case) so that deleting them seems to be a good idea (to save the users' time). On the other hand, editors might want to add more information to these pages in the future so that having deleted them would cause more work.

Example:

[[Fight:34988]] to be compared with [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=009314&cat=boxer Ricky Hatton in the BoxRec database]

or even:

[[Wladimir Klitschko vs. Fabio Eduardo Moli]] to be compared with [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=007035&cat=boxer Wladimir Klitschko in the BoxRec database] (I think providing the opportunity to click on the boxers' and the officials' names or on a category is not "enough" to create a fight page as users probably hope to find additional information when clicking on a "blue book" bout comment icon.)

Deleting or keeping them? And what if the current version of a page (like [[Fight:1112095|this]]) does not provide further information while past versions do (like [http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight%3A1112095&diff=77532&oldid=74772 these]?--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 12:06, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

I agree, I don't see why you need to create a page, when all you add is what is already appearing in BoxRec. I know I only create pages when I have comments about the bout to make. You should ask JollyDee why he created all those pages.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:46, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

So shall pages containing information which does not exceed what can be found in BoxRec be deleted? And what about the case described in the last paragraph of my comment above?--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 15:04, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

If you don't see ANY additional information in the wiki, than can be found in BoxRec, then delete it.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:58, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

I know I'm coming in late on this debate, but I do see some value in certain pages that contain no additional information (in comparaison to what appears in the database). Title fights are a good example. A number of editors have devoted significant time to create tables for title fights and have included links to the wiki books within those tables (see one I recently created [[NABO Heavyweight Title Fights|here]]).

While I agree that a user that gets to the wiki blue book from the BoxRec database will not find any additional information in a simple "fight code page", the same cannot be said for the user who reaches that page from the encyclopaedia. The latter doesn't have direct access to the database (its a couple of clicks away).

For the same reason, I believe that simple "boxer code pages" have some value as they enable the creation of links from the encyclopaedia.

It's probably too late, as I see that you've been implementing the policy above, but I wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 19:03, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not too late. I was even going to express the same thoughts but was beaten to the punch.

Users who are watching BoxRec boxer pages do not benefit from boxer and fight pages in the encyclopaedia which merely show code-generated information as these data can already be found on the BoxRec boxer pages themselves. When such users click on open blue book icons, they don't gain further information, but lose time instead.

On the other hand, users who are reading in the encyclopaedia benefit from links to those pages as even code-generated data are additional information from their perspective.

How can this conflict of interests be resolved? Assuming that fight and boxer pages have been moved to proper titles, pages of the form "Fight:12345" and "Human:12345" have become redirect pages connecting the fight and boxer pages to which they redirect to BoxRec. These redirects ought to be deleted so that the blue book icons close. Thus BoxRec users would not open encyclopaedia pages with no additional data any more while encyclopaedia users would still be provided with links to boxer and fight pages which merely show code-generated information.

This procedure would conjure up the danger of duplicate pages though. When an editor sees a closed blue book icon he might start editing it and a duplicate page would finally be created. If he then tried to move the newly created page to a title which exactly agrees with the title of an already existing duplicate page, there would be a notification and the editor would probably merge the pages. But still reorganization would be required and some bits of information entered on the newer page might be the same which had already been shown on the older page so that the editor would have done superfluous work. To save him this trouble there could be guidelines on the [[Help:Contents|Help page]] telling editors to first find out if the fight or boxer page he wants to work on already exists by using the search box. If an editor finds such a page he is to create a corresponding redirect page, which will open the blue book icon, and edit the page he has found.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 01:21, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm more opposed to the PetePod (Red) edits that seem to be done for no apparent purpose. Edits that are for a constructive purpose such as yours are fine, if they are in the context of a project such as yours.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 05:06, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

== Hugh Pat Floyd ==

What do think, is this is also him ?
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=405484&cat=referee

[[User:John|JohnShep]] 19:59, 28 September 2007 (CDT)

I think it probably is, since Hugh Pat Floyd was from London, and it looks like the referee worked out of London.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 10:46, 1 October 2007 (CDT)

== Title succession boxes ==
Soon I'd like to go over the wiki pages of world champions adding title succession boxes where they are missing (as far as WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO titles are concerned) and correcting them where they do not agree with what the BoxRec database says. I assume interim championships are not to be mentioned in those boxes as they do not occur in the lists of title lineages either.

What I've noticed while taking a look at those pages in advance is that in the middle box of a title succession box the dash between the dates that mark the beginning and the end of a champion's reign often lacks a space before it (or there is a space behind it where there should be none).

An example is [[Jesse James Leija|Jesse James Leija's]] succession box, which looks as follows up to now:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994– 17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

Should a space be both before and after the dash?:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994 – 17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

Or should there be no space around the dash?:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994–17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

The main wikipedia seems to prefer spaces around the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endash#En_dash en dash], if I get the second paragraph of the usage guidelines section right.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 14:21, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

There should be spaces around the dash, I think.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:35, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

== "Retired" vs. "Vacated" ==
Matt, would you mind replying to Emaster's question to me regarding "Retired" vs. "Vacated"? Thanks in advance. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 20:04, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

I don't want to cause a fuss with my little questions; the latest of them are on Ric's [[User talk:Ric#"Retired" vs. "Vacated"|talk page]], which I'm simply going to handle as follows unless I'll receive other instructions: 
1. If a champion has vacated his title and really never fought again he retired. 
2. If a champion has vacated his title, but returned to the ring later he vacated his title.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 21:57, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

If a fighter said he was retiring, thereby giving up his title, he retired in my book. In the case of Ali, his third title reign ended by retirement, he wasn't stripped or he didn't abandon his title. I know when I added many of those title boxes, I took care to note whether someone retired or vacated. Also, I have been corrected by others who have caught my mistakes. If you have questions you should be able to find a lot of stuff through a google search and a little digging. If not, then ask, somebody here can probably figure it out, unless it is some of the recent shenanigans that the alphabet soup game pull off.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 23:00, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Your explanation of Ali's case provides the definition I sought for; my simple definiton offered above is therefore not applicable. Whenever I see differing statements regarding the question "retired or vacated?" or "vacated or stripped" respectively while comparing the lists of title lineages with the title succession boxes on boxer pages I'm going to perform a google search to find out which statement was correct.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 10:41, 2 November 2007 (CDT)

== Issues now discussed on other pages ==

=== Code and resulting data ===
*[[Help talk:Contents#Code and resulting data]]

=== Boxers/Fights missing in BoxRec ===
*[[Help talk:Contents#Boxers/Fights missing in BoxRec]]

=== Which fights were for the WBA or the WBC heavyweight title? ===
*[[Talk:WBA Heavyweight Champion]]
*[[Talk:WBC Heavyweight Champion]]

=== More fights for vacant world titles? ===
*[http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=84097 Fights for vacant or nonvacant world titles?]
*[[Category talk:World Champions By Weight Class#Inconsistent treatment of inaugural title fights by BoxRec and title lineage listings]]

--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 22:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Quincy Daniels ==

Matt,

The record and biography of the following boxer:

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:28823

actually represent two people. Quincey Daniels, the 1960 Olympian, made his pro debut in 1965 against Frank Jennings; they both weighed 145 1/4, according to AP. The other Daniels turned pro in 1970, he was 22 at the time. Could you split these two records and make the necessary corrections?

Thank you very much in advance!

== World Champion Category Text ==

Matt, please see the discussion today between Emaster and me. What do you suggest the text say? Something like, perhaps: "A listing of those who have held a welterweight (or whatever division) world title, as recognized by one of the <nowiki>[[:Category:Sanctioning Bodies|four major sanctioning bodies]]</nowiki>." --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 18:51, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I would say "generally recognized", which of course means the current "major" four, and whatever else constituted "major" in the past (NBA/NYSAC)--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 23:09, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== Joe Smallwood ==
Matt,trying to change hometown of Joe Smallwood to Wilmington, DE, doesn't work, Bert

Don't know what to say. I don't understand enought about how the BoxRec database works with the wiki.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 20:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

== Alexander Abraham ==

Alexander Abraham being arrested for kicking Miranda in the head is apparently a hoax.
See: http://www.fightnews.com/fightnews_2/headlines//EkEuEyyZyAVgXPdQgb.html
--[[User:Fosho|Fosho]] 14:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Card in Brossard (Quebec) of July 8 ==

Matt, I see you've erased my entries posting the weights of all the fighters following the weigh-in for this card. Any reason why I shouldn't have done that? I usually post the weights on fight day, and return after the fight to complete the description of the fight. Let me know. Thanks. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]]

I didn't understand that you were going to return later and write reports. I assumed that you were just listing weights in the wiki, which I think is a waste, since the weights are available on BoxRec.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 00:06, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok. I apologize for that Matt, I was just trying to cheat a little... I've now recreated the [[Pier Olivier Cote vs. Juan Carlos Pastrana]] page, as the bout just ended with a TKO2 victory for Cote. Going forward I'll wait to have some non-basic information before creating an entry.

Thank you for answering my question. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]]

== Sergey Sorokin ==

Matt, there appear to be two separate pages for Sergey Sorokin. The first here: http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Human:92870,
and the second here: http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Sergey_Sorokin.
I believe the first one should be deleted.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Now the first page listed by [[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] redirects to the other one.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 22:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Deaths ==

Matt, we have a page '''Deaths in 2008''' http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Deaths_in_2008 and a category '''2008 Deaths''' http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Category:2008_Deaths, it seems to me that this is unnecessary ?
[[User:John|JohnShep]] 12:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

The Deaths in 2008 is sort of like a short obituary, ala wikipedia's recent deaths. If we ditch the category or the list and just go to the automation, I think people are going to not bother with adding the details and creating the bio pages.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Fairy Nuff :-) [[User:John|JohnShep]] 21:02, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

== Brizel ==

Is there anything to do about this guy. His subjective text is driving me nuts! [[User:Rvk2007|Rvk2007]] 17:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate his energy and desire to add information. But I'm in agreement that he needs to stop with the subjective test. I don't think communication works with him. We can either keep trying to explain our feeling to him, or tell him that we will give him a short ban to get his attention.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

For what its worth, he sent me a nice e-mail the other day apologizing for some of his edits to the [[Sebastien Demers vs. Dionisio Miranda]] fight. He's certainly misguided, but he means well. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 19:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

You're right Matt. I'm getting quite discouraged at this point as well. I was hoping the message was getting through, but it appears I was wrong. I'm really short on answers at this point. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:23, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Matt, I'm now beyond discouraged with Brizel. I'm to the point where I strongly recommend banning the guy. Clearly, he's not interested in making an effort.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 01:10, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you. I've tended to be inactive from BoxRec from time-to-time lately, but I find myself looking over his edits when I do check in. Reasoning with him has been pointless, as he has not even acknowledged the people trying to reason with him. I will ban him for a month, and see if he makes any progress when he returns or starts a dialog to try and work through the issues people have with his edits.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Matt. I think you made the right decision. Nothing else was working.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 23:48, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Well Matt, it seems our friend is back to his old ways. He inexplicably erased all of the content Sweetscientist and I had created for the [[Humberto Soto vs. Benoit Gaudet]] page and added his usual brand of "objective" analysis.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 16:07, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ring Titles ==

In researching fighters recognized as champions by Ring Magazine and awarded the Ring Title for their respective weight classes, I cannot help but notice that boxrec and the encyclopedia do not mention these titles at all. Is this by design because they are not believed to be from a legitimate sanctioning body or is it simply that the information has not been added? It would seem to some that the Ring titles were as prestigious as those of the big three. Yet no pages containing Ring title lineages or the succession boxes are done for fighters winning these belts. Is it wanted to be kept this way and would this information likely be deleted? or is it information just waiting to be added? Thanks - Ben Griffin --[[User:Sweetscientist|Sweetscientist]] 22:18, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

We have not recognized the recent incarnation of the Ring titles, and therefore don't recognize the Ring's older titles, though they usually match the so-called "World title" of the time.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 00:19, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

==Canadian Lightweight Title Bouts==
Matt, thank you for bringing those fights to my attention. The Talhan fight makes perfect sense as he had won the title in 1990 and that would have been his first defense.

I'm more puzzled by the second fight, as the CBF records show Grant as being the champion uninterrupted from 1992 to 1995 (that said, they are not particularly reliable). The easiest thing to do is to contact Grant himself, which is exactly what I will do tomorrow. Maybe he can shed light on the situation.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 05:23, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

==Are Blows Counts To Difficult For Boxrec ?==
As boxing research has grown, counting blows has become a useful tool for understanding the totality of a bout. Why are some boxrec editors deleting such information? You have the best site for disseminating information. It can be done usually in one or two lines. What is the problem?-- Dr Data Box 23:45,3 August, 2009.

Nobody understands what controls and events area. As it stands right now they lack credibility with people who use this site. People question what it is exactly these statistics mean. You need to raise the level of awareness of what these stats are. I know you have published this in magazines and IBRO in the past, but I think today's boxing fan either is not aware of your statistics or gives no credibility to them.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 14:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

They are explained in Wikipedia. Don't you mean you don't want to consider them? Why delete the blows, a very legitimate statistic, over a personal whim?

I'm not deleting the punch stats, as that is a statistic the general boxing public understands. If I am, apologize for the unintended mistake. The problem with controls and events is that the general boxing public is clueless to their meaning. Nobody else, aside from you, is coming in the wiki and posting in these stats after bouts. I would think for their to be some credibility we would expect to see others understand the metrics and put them, and not have people asking what it is that controls and events are, as is the case now. Baseball for example, has a lot of stats. Everyone understands ERA or Slugging percentage, and if you are maybe a little more tuned in, OPS. But the general public doesn't understand VORP (Value over replacement player) or DERA (defense adjusted ERA). Unless more people understand what you are doing, you really are almost doing this for your own amusement.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 02:33, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I think I understand what he's doing but consider it hopelessly subjective - you'd have to be a mindreader to make it work. You can't have one person sitting in front of the television / youtube trying to figure what it was that the boxer intended to do and than present his findings as - baseball-like - statistics.--[[User:Wouter|Wouter]] 06:44, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Southpaw or orthodox world champions? ==

Matt, you added the [[:Category:Southpaw World Champions|Southpaw World Champions category]] on the boxer pages of the following boxers: [[Adonis Rivas]], [[Cassius Baloyi]], [[Celestino Caballero]], and [[Duilio Loi]]. Their stances are all registered as orthodox on their BoxRec profiles, though.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 18:54, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Then delete the category. We must have had the wrong stance at the time.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 22:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I thought that maybe the database was wrong. However, I'll remove the categories from the boxer pages.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 23:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

== Canadian Flyweight Championship Bout ==

Thank you Matt. Much appreciated.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:45, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

== punchstats ==

hey man it took me forever to track down those stats,
I had to separate that from the bullshit fan forums punchstats, until i got the fight in danish, and the tv commentators read it out, my danish isn't great but i can now confirm those stats i posted are 100% accurate

== Canadian Flyweight Title ==

Thank you very much for the information Matt. I've corrected the lineage and entered the bouts accordingly. Great research by the way. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 17:36, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== Tremayne Johnson ==
Matt, you keep erasing Tremayne Johnson's profile, saying no record of fighter but he's not a fighter he is a trainer, so please stop erasing him.

Ok, I see that now. Please create his bio in a format consistent with how other non-boxer biographies are written. I think you confused me, by trying to make the biography look like a boxers, which made me think that you were creating a page for a boxer that did not exist.--[[User:Matt|Matt]] 23:39, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

== Show Code ==

Hi Matt,
I have introduced a show code now (still working on it) see http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Show:223657

Cheers, [[User:John|JohnShep]] 17:27, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Matt

2011-11-05T21:04:15Z

Boroto: HE FUCKS BABIES,PROVEN FACT, SO SICK BASTARD!

Please sign all comments, and enter them in the appropriate section, or if there is not one create another <s>u lowly dirty motherfucker enjoy spam, by blockin me u give me satisfaction of having good time n laughin at u IF THIS GUY CANT FUCK MENmothefucker, enjoy upcomin spam for rest of your fuckin gay life n when im in your area i ll pay u nice visit!r ulols aware i already have 20 accounts u ll never find by ip in good standings, blocking me is like blowing in the wind!one. Unless you commented in error, please do not delete your text. I would prefer that the discussion remain here, as a record of what has transpired, and for possible future reference.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 14:37, 17 Jan 2006 (CST)

For older discussions see: [[User talk:Matt Tegen/Archive1]]

== Venues & Clubs ==

Matt, but the [[:Category:Venues & Clubs|Venues & Clubs]] category DOES include athletic clubs, in addition to boxing venues. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 12:09, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

I think boxing clubs (gyms) should be separate from venues or old athletic clubs that staged bouts. I moved the category to gyms. I think the category is poorly named anyway, it should probably be "Boxing Venues".--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 12:46, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

== Talk/Discussion Pages ==

Matt, why cannot people use the talk and discussion sections of pages to post their opinions about the subject of the page and to "discuss" it? To get aboard their soapbox if they so choose? Just wondering --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 17:35, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

He isn't discussing the contents of the article or how to improve it, which is what the talk page should be about. He is complaining about the number of weight divisons. I'd prefer to not encourage soapboxing, because I don't want the contributions to the wiki to become people opineing on different subjects on the talk pages. See: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#How_to_use_article_talk_pages] for Wikipedia's guidelines.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:44, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

== International Boxing Council ==
Mat, I will not do name change, however if you check old newspapers you will know that they were called the International Boxing Club, headed by Jim Norris, Truman Gibson (secretary) and few others and that was the official name. I did inform Ric, it is up to you guys to decide if some articles deserve to be correct/ed or not. I do have pdf files with that name but due to copyright laws I will not share with anybody outside my circle.

== Fight Codes ==

Hey Matt, just wondering what I can do to figure out a fight code without the "blue books" that used to link from boxrec.com fight pages. Also, is the removal of the blue book links a permanent change with the new update? Sure hope not... (Sweetscientsist wrote)

No, it's not permanent. You may just want to be patient and wait.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 21:14, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

== Lennox Lewis page ==

gene tunney did not defeat every fighter he faced as a pro. he fought to a draw with tommy gavigan, fought to nc with renault, and technically fought to a no-decision with johnny risko.

riddick bowe has not defeated every fighter either. had a no-contest with buster mathis jr.

only marciano and johansson should be listed. the only current title holder would be chagaev that has defeated every opponent.

== Maybe the following talk pages require editing/deleting ==

[[Talk:Domenico Spada vs. Mustafa Karagol]]

--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 17:50, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

== Answer to the Sysop question ==

I should say that English is not my native language and I have no access to sources, which means that I could basically only continue to compare data within the database trying to find inaccuracies and errors. If that is no problem, I would like to become a Sysop, of course. If it is, I'm looking forward to going on as a common user.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 13:29, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

The database should be very accurate, particularly on dates. It's more likely that someone would see an error there, and inform us of it in the forum, than someone seeing an error in the wiki, as you are doing. I would suggest you fix it yourself, unless you have good reason to doubt that the record database is wrong.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 13:55, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

== Deleting certain fight pages? ==

Some fight pages do not provide other information than the BoxRec database: Only the fight code is inserted, only the fact that a certain bout was the fighter's pro debut is mentioned (which is obvious assuming that the boxer's BoxRec Fight Record is complete) or only details are given which can be found in the BoxRec database, too. Thus clicking on these fight pages will not supply the users with further information (assuming that they are entering the fight page from the BoxRec database, which should be the usual case) so that deleting them seems to be a good idea (to save the users' time). On the other hand, editors might want to add more information to these pages in the future so that having deleted them would cause more work.

Example:

[[Fight:34988]] to be compared with [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=009314&cat=boxer Ricky Hatton in the BoxRec database]

or even:

[[Wladimir Klitschko vs. Fabio Eduardo Moli]] to be compared with [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=007035&cat=boxer Wladimir Klitschko in the BoxRec database] (I think providing the opportunity to click on the boxers' and the officials' names or on a category is not "enough" to create a fight page as users probably hope to find additional information when clicking on a "blue book" bout comment icon.)

Deleting or keeping them? And what if the current version of a page (like [[Fight:1112095|this]]) does not provide further information while past versions do (like [http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight%3A1112095&diff=77532&oldid=74772 these]?--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 12:06, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

I agree, I don't see why you need to create a page, when all you add is what is already appearing in BoxRec. I know I only create pages when I have comments about the bout to make. You should ask JollyDee why he created all those pages.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:46, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

So shall pages containing information which does not exceed what can be found in BoxRec be deleted? And what about the case described in the last paragraph of my comment above?--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 15:04, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

If you don't see ANY additional information in the wiki, than can be found in BoxRec, then delete it.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:58, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

I know I'm coming in late on this debate, but I do see some value in certain pages that contain no additional information (in comparaison to what appears in the database). Title fights are a good example. A number of editors have devoted significant time to create tables for title fights and have included links to the wiki books within those tables (see one I recently created [[NABO Heavyweight Title Fights|here]]).

While I agree that a user that gets to the wiki blue book from the BoxRec database will not find any additional information in a simple "fight code page", the same cannot be said for the user who reaches that page from the encyclopaedia. The latter doesn't have direct access to the database (its a couple of clicks away).

For the same reason, I believe that simple "boxer code pages" have some value as they enable the creation of links from the encyclopaedia.

It's probably too late, as I see that you've been implementing the policy above, but I wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 19:03, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not too late. I was even going to express the same thoughts but was beaten to the punch.

Users who are watching BoxRec boxer pages do not benefit from boxer and fight pages in the encyclopaedia which merely show code-generated information as these data can already be found on the BoxRec boxer pages themselves. When such users click on open blue book icons, they don't gain further information, but lose time instead.

On the other hand, users who are reading in the encyclopaedia benefit from links to those pages as even code-generated data are additional information from their perspective.

How can this conflict of interests be resolved? Assuming that fight and boxer pages have been moved to proper titles, pages of the form "Fight:12345" and "Human:12345" have become redirect pages connecting the fight and boxer pages to which they redirect to BoxRec. These redirects ought to be deleted so that the blue book icons close. Thus BoxRec users would not open encyclopaedia pages with no additional data any more while encyclopaedia users would still be provided with links to boxer and fight pages which merely show code-generated information.

This procedure would conjure up the danger of duplicate pages though. When an editor sees a closed blue book icon he might start editing it and a duplicate page would finally be created. If he then tried to move the newly created page to a title which exactly agrees with the title of an already existing duplicate page, there would be a notification and the editor would probably merge the pages. But still reorganization would be required and some bits of information entered on the newer page might be the same which had already been shown on the older page so that the editor would have done superfluous work. To save him this trouble there could be guidelines on the [[Help:Contents|Help page]] telling editors to first find out if the fight or boxer page he wants to work on already exists by using the search box. If an editor finds such a page he is to create a corresponding redirect page, which will open the blue book icon, and edit the page he has found.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 01:21, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm more opposed to the PetePod (Red) edits that seem to be done for no apparent purpose. Edits that are for a constructive purpose such as yours are fine, if they are in the context of a project such as yours.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 05:06, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

== Hugh Pat Floyd ==

What do think, is this is also him ?
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=405484&cat=referee

[[User:John|JohnShep]] 19:59, 28 September 2007 (CDT)

I think it probably is, since Hugh Pat Floyd was from London, and it looks like the referee worked out of London.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 10:46, 1 October 2007 (CDT)

== Title succession boxes ==
Soon I'd like to go over the wiki pages of world champions adding title succession boxes where they are missing (as far as WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO titles are concerned) and correcting them where they do not agree with what the BoxRec database says. I assume interim championships are not to be mentioned in those boxes as they do not occur in the lists of title lineages either.

What I've noticed while taking a look at those pages in advance is that in the middle box of a title succession box the dash between the dates that mark the beginning and the end of a champion's reign often lacks a space before it (or there is a space behind it where there should be none).

An example is [[Jesse James Leija|Jesse James Leija's]] succession box, which looks as follows up to now:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994– 17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

Should a space be both before and after the dash?:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994 – 17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

Or should there be no space around the dash?:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994–17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

The main wikipedia seems to prefer spaces around the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endash#En_dash en dash], if I get the second paragraph of the usage guidelines section right.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 14:21, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

There should be spaces around the dash, I think.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:35, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

== "Retired" vs. "Vacated" ==
Matt, would you mind replying to Emaster's question to me regarding "Retired" vs. "Vacated"? Thanks in advance. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 20:04, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

I don't want to cause a fuss with my little questions; the latest of them are on Ric's [[User talk:Ric#"Retired" vs. "Vacated"|talk page]], which I'm simply going to handle as follows unless I'll receive other instructions: 
1. If a champion has vacated his title and really never fought again he retired. 
2. If a champion has vacated his title, but returned to the ring later he vacated his title.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 21:57, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

If a fighter said he was retiring, thereby giving up his title, he retired in my book. In the case of Ali, his third title reign ended by retirement, he wasn't stripped or he didn't abandon his title. I know when I added many of those title boxes, I took care to note whether someone retired or vacated. Also, I have been corrected by others who have caught my mistakes. If you have questions you should be able to find a lot of stuff through a google search and a little digging. If not, then ask, somebody here can probably figure it out, unless it is some of the recent shenanigans that the alphabet soup game pull off.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 23:00, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Your explanation of Ali's case provides the definition I sought for; my simple definiton offered above is therefore not applicable. Whenever I see differing statements regarding the question "retired or vacated?" or "vacated or stripped" respectively while comparing the lists of title lineages with the title succession boxes on boxer pages I'm going to perform a google search to find out which statement was correct.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 10:41, 2 November 2007 (CDT)

== Issues now discussed on other pages ==

=== Code and resulting data ===
*[[Help talk:Contents#Code and resulting data]]

=== Boxers/Fights missing in BoxRec ===
*[[Help talk:Contents#Boxers/Fights missing in BoxRec]]

=== Which fights were for the WBA or the WBC heavyweight title? ===
*[[Talk:WBA Heavyweight Champion]]
*[[Talk:WBC Heavyweight Champion]]

=== More fights for vacant world titles? ===
*[http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=84097 Fights for vacant or nonvacant world titles?]
*[[Category talk:World Champions By Weight Class#Inconsistent treatment of inaugural title fights by BoxRec and title lineage listings]]

--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 22:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Quincy Daniels ==

Matt,

The record and biography of the following boxer:

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:28823

actually represent two people. Quincey Daniels, the 1960 Olympian, made his pro debut in 1965 against Frank Jennings; they both weighed 145 1/4, according to AP. The other Daniels turned pro in 1970, he was 22 at the time. Could you split these two records and make the necessary corrections?

Thank you very much in advance!

== World Champion Category Text ==

Matt, please see the discussion today between Emaster and me. What do you suggest the text say? Something like, perhaps: "A listing of those who have held a welterweight (or whatever division) world title, as recognized by one of the <nowiki>[[:Category:Sanctioning Bodies|four major sanctioning bodies]]</nowiki>." --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 18:51, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I would say "generally recognized", which of course means the current "major" four, and whatever else constituted "major" in the past (NBA/NYSAC)--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 23:09, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== Joe Smallwood ==
Matt,trying to change hometown of Joe Smallwood to Wilmington, DE, doesn't work, Bert

Don't know what to say. I don't understand enought about how the BoxRec database works with the wiki.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 20:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

== Alexander Abraham ==

Alexander Abraham being arrested for kicking Miranda in the head is apparently a hoax.
See: http://www.fightnews.com/fightnews_2/headlines//EkEuEyyZyAVgXPdQgb.html
--[[User:Fosho|Fosho]] 14:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Card in Brossard (Quebec) of July 8 ==

Matt, I see you've erased my entries posting the weights of all the fighters following the weigh-in for this card. Any reason why I shouldn't have done that? I usually post the weights on fight day, and return after the fight to complete the description of the fight. Let me know. Thanks. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]]

I didn't understand that you were going to return later and write reports. I assumed that you were just listing weights in the wiki, which I think is a waste, since the weights are available on BoxRec.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 00:06, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok. I apologize for that Matt, I was just trying to cheat a little... I've now recreated the [[Pier Olivier Cote vs. Juan Carlos Pastrana]] page, as the bout just ended with a TKO2 victory for Cote. Going forward I'll wait to have some non-basic information before creating an entry.

Thank you for answering my question. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]]

== Sergey Sorokin ==

Matt, there appear to be two separate pages for Sergey Sorokin. The first here: http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Human:92870,
and the second here: http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Sergey_Sorokin.
I believe the first one should be deleted.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Now the first page listed by [[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] redirects to the other one.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 22:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Deaths ==

Matt, we have a page '''Deaths in 2008''' http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Deaths_in_2008 and a category '''2008 Deaths''' http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Category:2008_Deaths, it seems to me that this is unnecessary ?
[[User:John|JohnShep]] 12:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

The Deaths in 2008 is sort of like a short obituary, ala wikipedia's recent deaths. If we ditch the category or the list and just go to the automation, I think people are going to not bother with adding the details and creating the bio pages.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Fairy Nuff :-) [[User:John|JohnShep]] 21:02, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

== Brizel ==

Is there anything to do about this guy. His subjective text is driving me nuts! [[User:Rvk2007|Rvk2007]] 17:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate his energy and desire to add information. But I'm in agreement that he needs to stop with the subjective test. I don't think communication works with him. We can either keep trying to explain our feeling to him, or tell him that we will give him a short ban to get his attention.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

For what its worth, he sent me a nice e-mail the other day apologizing for some of his edits to the [[Sebastien Demers vs. Dionisio Miranda]] fight. He's certainly misguided, but he means well. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 19:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

You're right Matt. I'm getting quite discouraged at this point as well. I was hoping the message was getting through, but it appears I was wrong. I'm really short on answers at this point. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:23, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Matt, I'm now beyond discouraged with Brizel. I'm to the point where I strongly recommend banning the guy. Clearly, he's not interested in making an effort.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 01:10, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you. I've tended to be inactive from BoxRec from time-to-time lately, but I find myself looking over his edits when I do check in. Reasoning with him has been pointless, as he has not even acknowledged the people trying to reason with him. I will ban him for a month, and see if he makes any progress when he returns or starts a dialog to try and work through the issues people have with his edits.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Matt. I think you made the right decision. Nothing else was working.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 23:48, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Well Matt, it seems our friend is back to his old ways. He inexplicably erased all of the content Sweetscientist and I had created for the [[Humberto Soto vs. Benoit Gaudet]] page and added his usual brand of "objective" analysis.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 16:07, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ring Titles ==

In researching fighters recognized as champions by Ring Magazine and awarded the Ring Title for their respective weight classes, I cannot help but notice that boxrec and the encyclopedia do not mention these titles at all. Is this by design because they are not believed to be from a legitimate sanctioning body or is it simply that the information has not been added? It would seem to some that the Ring titles were as prestigious as those of the big three. Yet no pages containing Ring title lineages or the succession boxes are done for fighters winning these belts. Is it wanted to be kept this way and would this information likely be deleted? or is it information just waiting to be added? Thanks - Ben Griffin --[[User:Sweetscientist|Sweetscientist]] 22:18, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

We have not recognized the recent incarnation of the Ring titles, and therefore don't recognize the Ring's older titles, though they usually match the so-called "World title" of the time.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 00:19, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

==Canadian Lightweight Title Bouts==
Matt, thank you for bringing those fights to my attention. The Talhan fight makes perfect sense as he had won the title in 1990 and that would have been his first defense.

I'm more puzzled by the second fight, as the CBF records show Grant as being the champion uninterrupted from 1992 to 1995 (that said, they are not particularly reliable). The easiest thing to do is to contact Grant himself, which is exactly what I will do tomorrow. Maybe he can shed light on the situation.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 05:23, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

==Are Blows Counts To Difficult For Boxrec ?==
As boxing research has grown, counting blows has become a useful tool for understanding the totality of a bout. Why are some boxrec editors deleting such information? You have the best site for disseminating information. It can be done usually in one or two lines. What is the problem?-- Dr Data Box 23:45,3 August, 2009.

Nobody understands what controls and events area. As it stands right now they lack credibility with people who use this site. People question what it is exactly these statistics mean. You need to raise the level of awareness of what these stats are. I know you have published this in magazines and IBRO in the past, but I think today's boxing fan either is not aware of your statistics or gives no credibility to them.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 14:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

They are explained in Wikipedia. Don't you mean you don't want to consider them? Why delete the blows, a very legitimate statistic, over a personal whim?

I'm not deleting the punch stats, as that is a statistic the general boxing public understands. If I am, apologize for the unintended mistake. The problem with controls and events is that the general boxing public is clueless to their meaning. Nobody else, aside from you, is coming in the wiki and posting in these stats after bouts. I would think for their to be some credibility we would expect to see others understand the metrics and put them, and not have people asking what it is that controls and events are, as is the case now. Baseball for example, has a lot of stats. Everyone understands ERA or Slugging percentage, and if you are maybe a little more tuned in, OPS. But the general public doesn't understand VORP (Value over replacement player) or DERA (defense adjusted ERA). Unless more people understand what you are doing, you really are almost doing this for your own amusement.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 02:33, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I think I understand what he's doing but consider it hopelessly subjective - you'd have to be a mindreader to make it work. You can't have one person sitting in front of the television / youtube trying to figure what it was that the boxer intended to do and than present his findings as - baseball-like - statistics.--[[User:Wouter|Wouter]] 06:44, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Southpaw or orthodox world champions? ==

Matt, you added the [[:Category:Southpaw World Champions|Southpaw World Champions category]] on the boxer pages of the following boxers: [[Adonis Rivas]], [[Cassius Baloyi]], [[Celestino Caballero]], and [[Duilio Loi]]. Their stances are all registered as orthodox on their BoxRec profiles, though.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 18:54, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Then delete the category. We must have had the wrong stance at the time.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 22:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I thought that maybe the database was wrong. However, I'll remove the categories from the boxer pages.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 23:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

== Canadian Flyweight Championship Bout ==

Thank you Matt. Much appreciated.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:45, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

== punchstats ==

hey man it took me forever to track down those stats,
I had to separate that from the bullshit fan forums punchstats, until i got the fight in danish, and the tv commentators read it out, my danish isn't great but i can now confirm those stats i posted are 100% accurate

== Canadian Flyweight Title ==

Thank you very much for the information Matt. I've corrected the lineage and entered the bouts accordingly. Great research by the way. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 17:36, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== Tremayne Johnson ==
Matt, you keep erasing Tremayne Johnson's profile, saying no record of fighter but he's not a fighter he is a trainer, so please stop erasing him.

Ok, I see that now. Please create his bio in a format consistent with how other non-boxer biographies are written. I think you confused me, by trying to make the biography look like a boxers, which made me think that you were creating a page for a boxer that did not exist.--[[User:Matt|Matt]] 23:39, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

== Show Code ==

Hi Matt,
I have introduced a show code now (still working on it) see http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Show:223657

Cheers, [[User:John|JohnShep]] 17:27, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Boroto

2011-11-05T21:03:50Z

Boroto: Created page with 'LOLS MORE BLOCKS THE BETTER!'

LOLS MORE BLOCKS THE BETTER!

User:Boroto

2011-11-05T21:03:40Z

Boroto: Created page with 'LOLS!'

LOLS!

User talk:Matt

2011-11-05T21:01:05Z

Boroto: matt cant get enough of GAYSEX SHAME!!!WHAT PERV

Please sign all comments, and enter them in the appropriate section, or if there is not one create another <s>u lowly dirty motherfucker enjoy spam, by blockin me u give me satisfaction of having good time n laughin at u mothefucker, enjoy upcomin spam for rest of your fuckin gay life n when im in your area i ll pay u nice visit!r ulols aware i already have 20 accounts u ll never find by ip in good standings, blocking me is like blowing in the wind!one. Unless you commented in error, please do not delete your text. I would prefer that the discussion remain here, as a record of what has transpired, and for possible future reference.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 14:37, 17 Jan 2006 (CST)

For older discussions see: [[User talk:Matt Tegen/Archive1]]

== Venues & Clubs ==

Matt, but the [[:Category:Venues & Clubs|Venues & Clubs]] category DOES include athletic clubs, in addition to boxing venues. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 12:09, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

I think boxing clubs (gyms) should be separate from venues or old athletic clubs that staged bouts. I moved the category to gyms. I think the category is poorly named anyway, it should probably be "Boxing Venues".--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 12:46, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

== Talk/Discussion Pages ==

Matt, why cannot people use the talk and discussion sections of pages to post their opinions about the subject of the page and to "discuss" it? To get aboard their soapbox if they so choose? Just wondering --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 17:35, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

He isn't discussing the contents of the article or how to improve it, which is what the talk page should be about. He is complaining about the number of weight divisons. I'd prefer to not encourage soapboxing, because I don't want the contributions to the wiki to become people opineing on different subjects on the talk pages. See: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#How_to_use_article_talk_pages] for Wikipedia's guidelines.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:44, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

== International Boxing Council ==
Mat, I will not do name change, however if you check old newspapers you will know that they were called the International Boxing Club, headed by Jim Norris, Truman Gibson (secretary) and few others and that was the official name. I did inform Ric, it is up to you guys to decide if some articles deserve to be correct/ed or not. I do have pdf files with that name but due to copyright laws I will not share with anybody outside my circle.

== Fight Codes ==

Hey Matt, just wondering what I can do to figure out a fight code without the "blue books" that used to link from boxrec.com fight pages. Also, is the removal of the blue book links a permanent change with the new update? Sure hope not... (Sweetscientsist wrote)

No, it's not permanent. You may just want to be patient and wait.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 21:14, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

== Lennox Lewis page ==

gene tunney did not defeat every fighter he faced as a pro. he fought to a draw with tommy gavigan, fought to nc with renault, and technically fought to a no-decision with johnny risko.

riddick bowe has not defeated every fighter either. had a no-contest with buster mathis jr.

only marciano and johansson should be listed. the only current title holder would be chagaev that has defeated every opponent.

== Maybe the following talk pages require editing/deleting ==

[[Talk:Domenico Spada vs. Mustafa Karagol]]

--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 17:50, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

== Answer to the Sysop question ==

I should say that English is not my native language and I have no access to sources, which means that I could basically only continue to compare data within the database trying to find inaccuracies and errors. If that is no problem, I would like to become a Sysop, of course. If it is, I'm looking forward to going on as a common user.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 13:29, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

The database should be very accurate, particularly on dates. It's more likely that someone would see an error there, and inform us of it in the forum, than someone seeing an error in the wiki, as you are doing. I would suggest you fix it yourself, unless you have good reason to doubt that the record database is wrong.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 13:55, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

== Deleting certain fight pages? ==

Some fight pages do not provide other information than the BoxRec database: Only the fight code is inserted, only the fact that a certain bout was the fighter's pro debut is mentioned (which is obvious assuming that the boxer's BoxRec Fight Record is complete) or only details are given which can be found in the BoxRec database, too. Thus clicking on these fight pages will not supply the users with further information (assuming that they are entering the fight page from the BoxRec database, which should be the usual case) so that deleting them seems to be a good idea (to save the users' time). On the other hand, editors might want to add more information to these pages in the future so that having deleted them would cause more work.

Example:

[[Fight:34988]] to be compared with [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=009314&cat=boxer Ricky Hatton in the BoxRec database]

or even:

[[Wladimir Klitschko vs. Fabio Eduardo Moli]] to be compared with [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=007035&cat=boxer Wladimir Klitschko in the BoxRec database] (I think providing the opportunity to click on the boxers' and the officials' names or on a category is not "enough" to create a fight page as users probably hope to find additional information when clicking on a "blue book" bout comment icon.)

Deleting or keeping them? And what if the current version of a page (like [[Fight:1112095|this]]) does not provide further information while past versions do (like [http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight%3A1112095&diff=77532&oldid=74772 these]?--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 12:06, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

I agree, I don't see why you need to create a page, when all you add is what is already appearing in BoxRec. I know I only create pages when I have comments about the bout to make. You should ask JollyDee why he created all those pages.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:46, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

So shall pages containing information which does not exceed what can be found in BoxRec be deleted? And what about the case described in the last paragraph of my comment above?--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 15:04, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

If you don't see ANY additional information in the wiki, than can be found in BoxRec, then delete it.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:58, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

I know I'm coming in late on this debate, but I do see some value in certain pages that contain no additional information (in comparaison to what appears in the database). Title fights are a good example. A number of editors have devoted significant time to create tables for title fights and have included links to the wiki books within those tables (see one I recently created [[NABO Heavyweight Title Fights|here]]).

While I agree that a user that gets to the wiki blue book from the BoxRec database will not find any additional information in a simple "fight code page", the same cannot be said for the user who reaches that page from the encyclopaedia. The latter doesn't have direct access to the database (its a couple of clicks away).

For the same reason, I believe that simple "boxer code pages" have some value as they enable the creation of links from the encyclopaedia.

It's probably too late, as I see that you've been implementing the policy above, but I wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 19:03, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not too late. I was even going to express the same thoughts but was beaten to the punch.

Users who are watching BoxRec boxer pages do not benefit from boxer and fight pages in the encyclopaedia which merely show code-generated information as these data can already be found on the BoxRec boxer pages themselves. When such users click on open blue book icons, they don't gain further information, but lose time instead.

On the other hand, users who are reading in the encyclopaedia benefit from links to those pages as even code-generated data are additional information from their perspective.

How can this conflict of interests be resolved? Assuming that fight and boxer pages have been moved to proper titles, pages of the form "Fight:12345" and "Human:12345" have become redirect pages connecting the fight and boxer pages to which they redirect to BoxRec. These redirects ought to be deleted so that the blue book icons close. Thus BoxRec users would not open encyclopaedia pages with no additional data any more while encyclopaedia users would still be provided with links to boxer and fight pages which merely show code-generated information.

This procedure would conjure up the danger of duplicate pages though. When an editor sees a closed blue book icon he might start editing it and a duplicate page would finally be created. If he then tried to move the newly created page to a title which exactly agrees with the title of an already existing duplicate page, there would be a notification and the editor would probably merge the pages. But still reorganization would be required and some bits of information entered on the newer page might be the same which had already been shown on the older page so that the editor would have done superfluous work. To save him this trouble there could be guidelines on the [[Help:Contents|Help page]] telling editors to first find out if the fight or boxer page he wants to work on already exists by using the search box. If an editor finds such a page he is to create a corresponding redirect page, which will open the blue book icon, and edit the page he has found.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 01:21, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm more opposed to the PetePod (Red) edits that seem to be done for no apparent purpose. Edits that are for a constructive purpose such as yours are fine, if they are in the context of a project such as yours.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 05:06, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

== Hugh Pat Floyd ==

What do think, is this is also him ?
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=405484&cat=referee

[[User:John|JohnShep]] 19:59, 28 September 2007 (CDT)

I think it probably is, since Hugh Pat Floyd was from London, and it looks like the referee worked out of London.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 10:46, 1 October 2007 (CDT)

== Title succession boxes ==
Soon I'd like to go over the wiki pages of world champions adding title succession boxes where they are missing (as far as WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO titles are concerned) and correcting them where they do not agree with what the BoxRec database says. I assume interim championships are not to be mentioned in those boxes as they do not occur in the lists of title lineages either.

What I've noticed while taking a look at those pages in advance is that in the middle box of a title succession box the dash between the dates that mark the beginning and the end of a champion's reign often lacks a space before it (or there is a space behind it where there should be none).

An example is [[Jesse James Leija|Jesse James Leija's]] succession box, which looks as follows up to now:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994– 17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

Should a space be both before and after the dash?:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994 – 17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

Or should there be no space around the dash?:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994–17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

The main wikipedia seems to prefer spaces around the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endash#En_dash en dash], if I get the second paragraph of the usage guidelines section right.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 14:21, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

There should be spaces around the dash, I think.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:35, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

== "Retired" vs. "Vacated" ==
Matt, would you mind replying to Emaster's question to me regarding "Retired" vs. "Vacated"? Thanks in advance. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 20:04, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

I don't want to cause a fuss with my little questions; the latest of them are on Ric's [[User talk:Ric#"Retired" vs. "Vacated"|talk page]], which I'm simply going to handle as follows unless I'll receive other instructions: 
1. If a champion has vacated his title and really never fought again he retired. 
2. If a champion has vacated his title, but returned to the ring later he vacated his title.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 21:57, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

If a fighter said he was retiring, thereby giving up his title, he retired in my book. In the case of Ali, his third title reign ended by retirement, he wasn't stripped or he didn't abandon his title. I know when I added many of those title boxes, I took care to note whether someone retired or vacated. Also, I have been corrected by others who have caught my mistakes. If you have questions you should be able to find a lot of stuff through a google search and a little digging. If not, then ask, somebody here can probably figure it out, unless it is some of the recent shenanigans that the alphabet soup game pull off.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 23:00, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Your explanation of Ali's case provides the definition I sought for; my simple definiton offered above is therefore not applicable. Whenever I see differing statements regarding the question "retired or vacated?" or "vacated or stripped" respectively while comparing the lists of title lineages with the title succession boxes on boxer pages I'm going to perform a google search to find out which statement was correct.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 10:41, 2 November 2007 (CDT)

== Issues now discussed on other pages ==

=== Code and resulting data ===
*[[Help talk:Contents#Code and resulting data]]

=== Boxers/Fights missing in BoxRec ===
*[[Help talk:Contents#Boxers/Fights missing in BoxRec]]

=== Which fights were for the WBA or the WBC heavyweight title? ===
*[[Talk:WBA Heavyweight Champion]]
*[[Talk:WBC Heavyweight Champion]]

=== More fights for vacant world titles? ===
*[http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=84097 Fights for vacant or nonvacant world titles?]
*[[Category talk:World Champions By Weight Class#Inconsistent treatment of inaugural title fights by BoxRec and title lineage listings]]

--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 22:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Quincy Daniels ==

Matt,

The record and biography of the following boxer:

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:28823

actually represent two people. Quincey Daniels, the 1960 Olympian, made his pro debut in 1965 against Frank Jennings; they both weighed 145 1/4, according to AP. The other Daniels turned pro in 1970, he was 22 at the time. Could you split these two records and make the necessary corrections?

Thank you very much in advance!

== World Champion Category Text ==

Matt, please see the discussion today between Emaster and me. What do you suggest the text say? Something like, perhaps: "A listing of those who have held a welterweight (or whatever division) world title, as recognized by one of the <nowiki>[[:Category:Sanctioning Bodies|four major sanctioning bodies]]</nowiki>." --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 18:51, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I would say "generally recognized", which of course means the current "major" four, and whatever else constituted "major" in the past (NBA/NYSAC)--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 23:09, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== Joe Smallwood ==
Matt,trying to change hometown of Joe Smallwood to Wilmington, DE, doesn't work, Bert

Don't know what to say. I don't understand enought about how the BoxRec database works with the wiki.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 20:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

== Alexander Abraham ==

Alexander Abraham being arrested for kicking Miranda in the head is apparently a hoax.
See: http://www.fightnews.com/fightnews_2/headlines//EkEuEyyZyAVgXPdQgb.html
--[[User:Fosho|Fosho]] 14:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Card in Brossard (Quebec) of July 8 ==

Matt, I see you've erased my entries posting the weights of all the fighters following the weigh-in for this card. Any reason why I shouldn't have done that? I usually post the weights on fight day, and return after the fight to complete the description of the fight. Let me know. Thanks. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]]

I didn't understand that you were going to return later and write reports. I assumed that you were just listing weights in the wiki, which I think is a waste, since the weights are available on BoxRec.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 00:06, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok. I apologize for that Matt, I was just trying to cheat a little... I've now recreated the [[Pier Olivier Cote vs. Juan Carlos Pastrana]] page, as the bout just ended with a TKO2 victory for Cote. Going forward I'll wait to have some non-basic information before creating an entry.

Thank you for answering my question. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]]

== Sergey Sorokin ==

Matt, there appear to be two separate pages for Sergey Sorokin. The first here: http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Human:92870,
and the second here: http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Sergey_Sorokin.
I believe the first one should be deleted.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Now the first page listed by [[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] redirects to the other one.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 22:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Deaths ==

Matt, we have a page '''Deaths in 2008''' http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Deaths_in_2008 and a category '''2008 Deaths''' http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Category:2008_Deaths, it seems to me that this is unnecessary ?
[[User:John|JohnShep]] 12:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

The Deaths in 2008 is sort of like a short obituary, ala wikipedia's recent deaths. If we ditch the category or the list and just go to the automation, I think people are going to not bother with adding the details and creating the bio pages.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Fairy Nuff :-) [[User:John|JohnShep]] 21:02, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

== Brizel ==

Is there anything to do about this guy. His subjective text is driving me nuts! [[User:Rvk2007|Rvk2007]] 17:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate his energy and desire to add information. But I'm in agreement that he needs to stop with the subjective test. I don't think communication works with him. We can either keep trying to explain our feeling to him, or tell him that we will give him a short ban to get his attention.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

For what its worth, he sent me a nice e-mail the other day apologizing for some of his edits to the [[Sebastien Demers vs. Dionisio Miranda]] fight. He's certainly misguided, but he means well. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 19:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

You're right Matt. I'm getting quite discouraged at this point as well. I was hoping the message was getting through, but it appears I was wrong. I'm really short on answers at this point. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:23, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Matt, I'm now beyond discouraged with Brizel. I'm to the point where I strongly recommend banning the guy. Clearly, he's not interested in making an effort.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 01:10, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you. I've tended to be inactive from BoxRec from time-to-time lately, but I find myself looking over his edits when I do check in. Reasoning with him has been pointless, as he has not even acknowledged the people trying to reason with him. I will ban him for a month, and see if he makes any progress when he returns or starts a dialog to try and work through the issues people have with his edits.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Matt. I think you made the right decision. Nothing else was working.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 23:48, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Well Matt, it seems our friend is back to his old ways. He inexplicably erased all of the content Sweetscientist and I had created for the [[Humberto Soto vs. Benoit Gaudet]] page and added his usual brand of "objective" analysis.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 16:07, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ring Titles ==

In researching fighters recognized as champions by Ring Magazine and awarded the Ring Title for their respective weight classes, I cannot help but notice that boxrec and the encyclopedia do not mention these titles at all. Is this by design because they are not believed to be from a legitimate sanctioning body or is it simply that the information has not been added? It would seem to some that the Ring titles were as prestigious as those of the big three. Yet no pages containing Ring title lineages or the succession boxes are done for fighters winning these belts. Is it wanted to be kept this way and would this information likely be deleted? or is it information just waiting to be added? Thanks - Ben Griffin --[[User:Sweetscientist|Sweetscientist]] 22:18, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

We have not recognized the recent incarnation of the Ring titles, and therefore don't recognize the Ring's older titles, though they usually match the so-called "World title" of the time.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 00:19, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

==Canadian Lightweight Title Bouts==
Matt, thank you for bringing those fights to my attention. The Talhan fight makes perfect sense as he had won the title in 1990 and that would have been his first defense.

I'm more puzzled by the second fight, as the CBF records show Grant as being the champion uninterrupted from 1992 to 1995 (that said, they are not particularly reliable). The easiest thing to do is to contact Grant himself, which is exactly what I will do tomorrow. Maybe he can shed light on the situation.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 05:23, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

==Are Blows Counts To Difficult For Boxrec ?==
As boxing research has grown, counting blows has become a useful tool for understanding the totality of a bout. Why are some boxrec editors deleting such information? You have the best site for disseminating information. It can be done usually in one or two lines. What is the problem?-- Dr Data Box 23:45,3 August, 2009.

Nobody understands what controls and events area. As it stands right now they lack credibility with people who use this site. People question what it is exactly these statistics mean. You need to raise the level of awareness of what these stats are. I know you have published this in magazines and IBRO in the past, but I think today's boxing fan either is not aware of your statistics or gives no credibility to them.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 14:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

They are explained in Wikipedia. Don't you mean you don't want to consider them? Why delete the blows, a very legitimate statistic, over a personal whim?

I'm not deleting the punch stats, as that is a statistic the general boxing public understands. If I am, apologize for the unintended mistake. The problem with controls and events is that the general boxing public is clueless to their meaning. Nobody else, aside from you, is coming in the wiki and posting in these stats after bouts. I would think for their to be some credibility we would expect to see others understand the metrics and put them, and not have people asking what it is that controls and events are, as is the case now. Baseball for example, has a lot of stats. Everyone understands ERA or Slugging percentage, and if you are maybe a little more tuned in, OPS. But the general public doesn't understand VORP (Value over replacement player) or DERA (defense adjusted ERA). Unless more people understand what you are doing, you really are almost doing this for your own amusement.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 02:33, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I think I understand what he's doing but consider it hopelessly subjective - you'd have to be a mindreader to make it work. You can't have one person sitting in front of the television / youtube trying to figure what it was that the boxer intended to do and than present his findings as - baseball-like - statistics.--[[User:Wouter|Wouter]] 06:44, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Southpaw or orthodox world champions? ==

Matt, you added the [[:Category:Southpaw World Champions|Southpaw World Champions category]] on the boxer pages of the following boxers: [[Adonis Rivas]], [[Cassius Baloyi]], [[Celestino Caballero]], and [[Duilio Loi]]. Their stances are all registered as orthodox on their BoxRec profiles, though.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 18:54, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Then delete the category. We must have had the wrong stance at the time.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 22:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I thought that maybe the database was wrong. However, I'll remove the categories from the boxer pages.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 23:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

== Canadian Flyweight Championship Bout ==

Thank you Matt. Much appreciated.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:45, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

== punchstats ==

hey man it took me forever to track down those stats,
I had to separate that from the bullshit fan forums punchstats, until i got the fight in danish, and the tv commentators read it out, my danish isn't great but i can now confirm those stats i posted are 100% accurate

== Canadian Flyweight Title ==

Thank you very much for the information Matt. I've corrected the lineage and entered the bouts accordingly. Great research by the way. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 17:36, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== Tremayne Johnson ==
Matt, you keep erasing Tremayne Johnson's profile, saying no record of fighter but he's not a fighter he is a trainer, so please stop erasing him.

Ok, I see that now. Please create his bio in a format consistent with how other non-boxer biographies are written. I think you confused me, by trying to make the biography look like a boxers, which made me think that you were creating a page for a boxer that did not exist.--[[User:Matt|Matt]] 23:39, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

== Show Code ==

Hi Matt,
I have introduced a show code now (still working on it) see http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Show:223657

Cheers, [[User:John|JohnShep]] 17:27, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Matt

2011-11-05T21:00:42Z

Boroto: BOXREC INGRATES DIE!

Please sign all comments, and enter them in the appropriate section, or if there is not one create another <s>u lowly dirty motherfucker enjoy spam, by blockin me u give me satisfaction of having good time n laughin at u mothefucker, enjoy upcomin spam for rest of your fuckin gay life n when im in your area i ll pay u nice visit!r u aware i already have 20 accounts u ll never find by ip in good standings, blocking me is like blowing in the wind!one. Unless you commented in error, please do not delete your text. I would prefer that the discussion remain here, as a record of what has transpired, and for possible future reference.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 14:37, 17 Jan 2006 (CST)

For older discussions see: [[User talk:Matt Tegen/Archive1]]

== Venues & Clubs ==

Matt, but the [[:Category:Venues & Clubs|Venues & Clubs]] category DOES include athletic clubs, in addition to boxing venues. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 12:09, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

I think boxing clubs (gyms) should be separate from venues or old athletic clubs that staged bouts. I moved the category to gyms. I think the category is poorly named anyway, it should probably be "Boxing Venues".--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 12:46, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

== Talk/Discussion Pages ==

Matt, why cannot people use the talk and discussion sections of pages to post their opinions about the subject of the page and to "discuss" it? To get aboard their soapbox if they so choose? Just wondering --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 17:35, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

He isn't discussing the contents of the article or how to improve it, which is what the talk page should be about. He is complaining about the number of weight divisons. I'd prefer to not encourage soapboxing, because I don't want the contributions to the wiki to become people opineing on different subjects on the talk pages. See: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#How_to_use_article_talk_pages] for Wikipedia's guidelines.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:44, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

== International Boxing Council ==
Mat, I will not do name change, however if you check old newspapers you will know that they were called the International Boxing Club, headed by Jim Norris, Truman Gibson (secretary) and few others and that was the official name. I did inform Ric, it is up to you guys to decide if some articles deserve to be correct/ed or not. I do have pdf files with that name but due to copyright laws I will not share with anybody outside my circle.

== Fight Codes ==

Hey Matt, just wondering what I can do to figure out a fight code without the "blue books" that used to link from boxrec.com fight pages. Also, is the removal of the blue book links a permanent change with the new update? Sure hope not... (Sweetscientsist wrote)

No, it's not permanent. You may just want to be patient and wait.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 21:14, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

== Lennox Lewis page ==

gene tunney did not defeat every fighter he faced as a pro. he fought to a draw with tommy gavigan, fought to nc with renault, and technically fought to a no-decision with johnny risko.

riddick bowe has not defeated every fighter either. had a no-contest with buster mathis jr.

only marciano and johansson should be listed. the only current title holder would be chagaev that has defeated every opponent.

== Maybe the following talk pages require editing/deleting ==

[[Talk:Domenico Spada vs. Mustafa Karagol]]

--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 17:50, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

== Answer to the Sysop question ==

I should say that English is not my native language and I have no access to sources, which means that I could basically only continue to compare data within the database trying to find inaccuracies and errors. If that is no problem, I would like to become a Sysop, of course. If it is, I'm looking forward to going on as a common user.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 13:29, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

The database should be very accurate, particularly on dates. It's more likely that someone would see an error there, and inform us of it in the forum, than someone seeing an error in the wiki, as you are doing. I would suggest you fix it yourself, unless you have good reason to doubt that the record database is wrong.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 13:55, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

== Deleting certain fight pages? ==

Some fight pages do not provide other information than the BoxRec database: Only the fight code is inserted, only the fact that a certain bout was the fighter's pro debut is mentioned (which is obvious assuming that the boxer's BoxRec Fight Record is complete) or only details are given which can be found in the BoxRec database, too. Thus clicking on these fight pages will not supply the users with further information (assuming that they are entering the fight page from the BoxRec database, which should be the usual case) so that deleting them seems to be a good idea (to save the users' time). On the other hand, editors might want to add more information to these pages in the future so that having deleted them would cause more work.

Example:

[[Fight:34988]] to be compared with [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=009314&cat=boxer Ricky Hatton in the BoxRec database]

or even:

[[Wladimir Klitschko vs. Fabio Eduardo Moli]] to be compared with [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=007035&cat=boxer Wladimir Klitschko in the BoxRec database] (I think providing the opportunity to click on the boxers' and the officials' names or on a category is not "enough" to create a fight page as users probably hope to find additional information when clicking on a "blue book" bout comment icon.)

Deleting or keeping them? And what if the current version of a page (like [[Fight:1112095|this]]) does not provide further information while past versions do (like [http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight%3A1112095&diff=77532&oldid=74772 these]?--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 12:06, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

I agree, I don't see why you need to create a page, when all you add is what is already appearing in BoxRec. I know I only create pages when I have comments about the bout to make. You should ask JollyDee why he created all those pages.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:46, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

So shall pages containing information which does not exceed what can be found in BoxRec be deleted? And what about the case described in the last paragraph of my comment above?--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 15:04, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

If you don't see ANY additional information in the wiki, than can be found in BoxRec, then delete it.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:58, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

I know I'm coming in late on this debate, but I do see some value in certain pages that contain no additional information (in comparaison to what appears in the database). Title fights are a good example. A number of editors have devoted significant time to create tables for title fights and have included links to the wiki books within those tables (see one I recently created [[NABO Heavyweight Title Fights|here]]).

While I agree that a user that gets to the wiki blue book from the BoxRec database will not find any additional information in a simple "fight code page", the same cannot be said for the user who reaches that page from the encyclopaedia. The latter doesn't have direct access to the database (its a couple of clicks away).

For the same reason, I believe that simple "boxer code pages" have some value as they enable the creation of links from the encyclopaedia.

It's probably too late, as I see that you've been implementing the policy above, but I wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 19:03, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not too late. I was even going to express the same thoughts but was beaten to the punch.

Users who are watching BoxRec boxer pages do not benefit from boxer and fight pages in the encyclopaedia which merely show code-generated information as these data can already be found on the BoxRec boxer pages themselves. When such users click on open blue book icons, they don't gain further information, but lose time instead.

On the other hand, users who are reading in the encyclopaedia benefit from links to those pages as even code-generated data are additional information from their perspective.

How can this conflict of interests be resolved? Assuming that fight and boxer pages have been moved to proper titles, pages of the form "Fight:12345" and "Human:12345" have become redirect pages connecting the fight and boxer pages to which they redirect to BoxRec. These redirects ought to be deleted so that the blue book icons close. Thus BoxRec users would not open encyclopaedia pages with no additional data any more while encyclopaedia users would still be provided with links to boxer and fight pages which merely show code-generated information.

This procedure would conjure up the danger of duplicate pages though. When an editor sees a closed blue book icon he might start editing it and a duplicate page would finally be created. If he then tried to move the newly created page to a title which exactly agrees with the title of an already existing duplicate page, there would be a notification and the editor would probably merge the pages. But still reorganization would be required and some bits of information entered on the newer page might be the same which had already been shown on the older page so that the editor would have done superfluous work. To save him this trouble there could be guidelines on the [[Help:Contents|Help page]] telling editors to first find out if the fight or boxer page he wants to work on already exists by using the search box. If an editor finds such a page he is to create a corresponding redirect page, which will open the blue book icon, and edit the page he has found.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 01:21, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm more opposed to the PetePod (Red) edits that seem to be done for no apparent purpose. Edits that are for a constructive purpose such as yours are fine, if they are in the context of a project such as yours.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 05:06, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

== Hugh Pat Floyd ==

What do think, is this is also him ?
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=405484&cat=referee

[[User:John|JohnShep]] 19:59, 28 September 2007 (CDT)

I think it probably is, since Hugh Pat Floyd was from London, and it looks like the referee worked out of London.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 10:46, 1 October 2007 (CDT)

== Title succession boxes ==
Soon I'd like to go over the wiki pages of world champions adding title succession boxes where they are missing (as far as WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO titles are concerned) and correcting them where they do not agree with what the BoxRec database says. I assume interim championships are not to be mentioned in those boxes as they do not occur in the lists of title lineages either.

What I've noticed while taking a look at those pages in advance is that in the middle box of a title succession box the dash between the dates that mark the beginning and the end of a champion's reign often lacks a space before it (or there is a space behind it where there should be none).

An example is [[Jesse James Leija|Jesse James Leija's]] succession box, which looks as follows up to now:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994– 17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

Should a space be both before and after the dash?:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994 – 17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

Or should there be no space around the dash?:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994–17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

The main wikipedia seems to prefer spaces around the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endash#En_dash en dash], if I get the second paragraph of the usage guidelines section right.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 14:21, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

There should be spaces around the dash, I think.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:35, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

== "Retired" vs. "Vacated" ==
Matt, would you mind replying to Emaster's question to me regarding "Retired" vs. "Vacated"? Thanks in advance. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 20:04, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

I don't want to cause a fuss with my little questions; the latest of them are on Ric's [[User talk:Ric#"Retired" vs. "Vacated"|talk page]], which I'm simply going to handle as follows unless I'll receive other instructions: 
1. If a champion has vacated his title and really never fought again he retired. 
2. If a champion has vacated his title, but returned to the ring later he vacated his title.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 21:57, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

If a fighter said he was retiring, thereby giving up his title, he retired in my book. In the case of Ali, his third title reign ended by retirement, he wasn't stripped or he didn't abandon his title. I know when I added many of those title boxes, I took care to note whether someone retired or vacated. Also, I have been corrected by others who have caught my mistakes. If you have questions you should be able to find a lot of stuff through a google search and a little digging. If not, then ask, somebody here can probably figure it out, unless it is some of the recent shenanigans that the alphabet soup game pull off.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 23:00, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Your explanation of Ali's case provides the definition I sought for; my simple definiton offered above is therefore not applicable. Whenever I see differing statements regarding the question "retired or vacated?" or "vacated or stripped" respectively while comparing the lists of title lineages with the title succession boxes on boxer pages I'm going to perform a google search to find out which statement was correct.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 10:41, 2 November 2007 (CDT)

== Issues now discussed on other pages ==

=== Code and resulting data ===
*[[Help talk:Contents#Code and resulting data]]

=== Boxers/Fights missing in BoxRec ===
*[[Help talk:Contents#Boxers/Fights missing in BoxRec]]

=== Which fights were for the WBA or the WBC heavyweight title? ===
*[[Talk:WBA Heavyweight Champion]]
*[[Talk:WBC Heavyweight Champion]]

=== More fights for vacant world titles? ===
*[http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=84097 Fights for vacant or nonvacant world titles?]
*[[Category talk:World Champions By Weight Class#Inconsistent treatment of inaugural title fights by BoxRec and title lineage listings]]

--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 22:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Quincy Daniels ==

Matt,

The record and biography of the following boxer:

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:28823

actually represent two people. Quincey Daniels, the 1960 Olympian, made his pro debut in 1965 against Frank Jennings; they both weighed 145 1/4, according to AP. The other Daniels turned pro in 1970, he was 22 at the time. Could you split these two records and make the necessary corrections?

Thank you very much in advance!

== World Champion Category Text ==

Matt, please see the discussion today between Emaster and me. What do you suggest the text say? Something like, perhaps: "A listing of those who have held a welterweight (or whatever division) world title, as recognized by one of the <nowiki>[[:Category:Sanctioning Bodies|four major sanctioning bodies]]</nowiki>." --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 18:51, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I would say "generally recognized", which of course means the current "major" four, and whatever else constituted "major" in the past (NBA/NYSAC)--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 23:09, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== Joe Smallwood ==
Matt,trying to change hometown of Joe Smallwood to Wilmington, DE, doesn't work, Bert

Don't know what to say. I don't understand enought about how the BoxRec database works with the wiki.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 20:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

== Alexander Abraham ==

Alexander Abraham being arrested for kicking Miranda in the head is apparently a hoax.
See: http://www.fightnews.com/fightnews_2/headlines//EkEuEyyZyAVgXPdQgb.html
--[[User:Fosho|Fosho]] 14:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Card in Brossard (Quebec) of July 8 ==

Matt, I see you've erased my entries posting the weights of all the fighters following the weigh-in for this card. Any reason why I shouldn't have done that? I usually post the weights on fight day, and return after the fight to complete the description of the fight. Let me know. Thanks. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]]

I didn't understand that you were going to return later and write reports. I assumed that you were just listing weights in the wiki, which I think is a waste, since the weights are available on BoxRec.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 00:06, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok. I apologize for that Matt, I was just trying to cheat a little... I've now recreated the [[Pier Olivier Cote vs. Juan Carlos Pastrana]] page, as the bout just ended with a TKO2 victory for Cote. Going forward I'll wait to have some non-basic information before creating an entry.

Thank you for answering my question. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]]

== Sergey Sorokin ==

Matt, there appear to be two separate pages for Sergey Sorokin. The first here: http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Human:92870,
and the second here: http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Sergey_Sorokin.
I believe the first one should be deleted.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Now the first page listed by [[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] redirects to the other one.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 22:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Deaths ==

Matt, we have a page '''Deaths in 2008''' http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Deaths_in_2008 and a category '''2008 Deaths''' http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Category:2008_Deaths, it seems to me that this is unnecessary ?
[[User:John|JohnShep]] 12:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

The Deaths in 2008 is sort of like a short obituary, ala wikipedia's recent deaths. If we ditch the category or the list and just go to the automation, I think people are going to not bother with adding the details and creating the bio pages.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Fairy Nuff :-) [[User:John|JohnShep]] 21:02, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

== Brizel ==

Is there anything to do about this guy. His subjective text is driving me nuts! [[User:Rvk2007|Rvk2007]] 17:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate his energy and desire to add information. But I'm in agreement that he needs to stop with the subjective test. I don't think communication works with him. We can either keep trying to explain our feeling to him, or tell him that we will give him a short ban to get his attention.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

For what its worth, he sent me a nice e-mail the other day apologizing for some of his edits to the [[Sebastien Demers vs. Dionisio Miranda]] fight. He's certainly misguided, but he means well. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 19:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

You're right Matt. I'm getting quite discouraged at this point as well. I was hoping the message was getting through, but it appears I was wrong. I'm really short on answers at this point. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:23, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Matt, I'm now beyond discouraged with Brizel. I'm to the point where I strongly recommend banning the guy. Clearly, he's not interested in making an effort.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 01:10, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you. I've tended to be inactive from BoxRec from time-to-time lately, but I find myself looking over his edits when I do check in. Reasoning with him has been pointless, as he has not even acknowledged the people trying to reason with him. I will ban him for a month, and see if he makes any progress when he returns or starts a dialog to try and work through the issues people have with his edits.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Matt. I think you made the right decision. Nothing else was working.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 23:48, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Well Matt, it seems our friend is back to his old ways. He inexplicably erased all of the content Sweetscientist and I had created for the [[Humberto Soto vs. Benoit Gaudet]] page and added his usual brand of "objective" analysis.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 16:07, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Ring Titles ==

In researching fighters recognized as champions by Ring Magazine and awarded the Ring Title for their respective weight classes, I cannot help but notice that boxrec and the encyclopedia do not mention these titles at all. Is this by design because they are not believed to be from a legitimate sanctioning body or is it simply that the information has not been added? It would seem to some that the Ring titles were as prestigious as those of the big three. Yet no pages containing Ring title lineages or the succession boxes are done for fighters winning these belts. Is it wanted to be kept this way and would this information likely be deleted? or is it information just waiting to be added? Thanks - Ben Griffin --[[User:Sweetscientist|Sweetscientist]] 22:18, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

We have not recognized the recent incarnation of the Ring titles, and therefore don't recognize the Ring's older titles, though they usually match the so-called "World title" of the time.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 00:19, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

==Canadian Lightweight Title Bouts==
Matt, thank you for bringing those fights to my attention. The Talhan fight makes perfect sense as he had won the title in 1990 and that would have been his first defense.

I'm more puzzled by the second fight, as the CBF records show Grant as being the champion uninterrupted from 1992 to 1995 (that said, they are not particularly reliable). The easiest thing to do is to contact Grant himself, which is exactly what I will do tomorrow. Maybe he can shed light on the situation.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 05:23, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

==Are Blows Counts To Difficult For Boxrec ?==
As boxing research has grown, counting blows has become a useful tool for understanding the totality of a bout. Why are some boxrec editors deleting such information? You have the best site for disseminating information. It can be done usually in one or two lines. What is the problem?-- Dr Data Box 23:45,3 August, 2009.

Nobody understands what controls and events area. As it stands right now they lack credibility with people who use this site. People question what it is exactly these statistics mean. You need to raise the level of awareness of what these stats are. I know you have published this in magazines and IBRO in the past, but I think today's boxing fan either is not aware of your statistics or gives no credibility to them.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 14:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

They are explained in Wikipedia. Don't you mean you don't want to consider them? Why delete the blows, a very legitimate statistic, over a personal whim?

I'm not deleting the punch stats, as that is a statistic the general boxing public understands. If I am, apologize for the unintended mistake. The problem with controls and events is that the general boxing public is clueless to their meaning. Nobody else, aside from you, is coming in the wiki and posting in these stats after bouts. I would think for their to be some credibility we would expect to see others understand the metrics and put them, and not have people asking what it is that controls and events are, as is the case now. Baseball for example, has a lot of stats. Everyone understands ERA or Slugging percentage, and if you are maybe a little more tuned in, OPS. But the general public doesn't understand VORP (Value over replacement player) or DERA (defense adjusted ERA). Unless more people understand what you are doing, you really are almost doing this for your own amusement.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 02:33, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I think I understand what he's doing but consider it hopelessly subjective - you'd have to be a mindreader to make it work. You can't have one person sitting in front of the television / youtube trying to figure what it was that the boxer intended to do and than present his findings as - baseball-like - statistics.--[[User:Wouter|Wouter]] 06:44, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Southpaw or orthodox world champions? ==

Matt, you added the [[:Category:Southpaw World Champions|Southpaw World Champions category]] on the boxer pages of the following boxers: [[Adonis Rivas]], [[Cassius Baloyi]], [[Celestino Caballero]], and [[Duilio Loi]]. Their stances are all registered as orthodox on their BoxRec profiles, though.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 18:54, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Then delete the category. We must have had the wrong stance at the time.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 22:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I thought that maybe the database was wrong. However, I'll remove the categories from the boxer pages.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 23:21, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

== Canadian Flyweight Championship Bout ==

Thank you Matt. Much appreciated.--[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 20:45, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

== punchstats ==

hey man it took me forever to track down those stats,
I had to separate that from the bullshit fan forums punchstats, until i got the fight in danish, and the tv commentators read it out, my danish isn't great but i can now confirm those stats i posted are 100% accurate

== Canadian Flyweight Title ==

Thank you very much for the information Matt. I've corrected the lineage and entered the bouts accordingly. Great research by the way. --[[User:Reenthelawman|Reenthelawman]] 17:36, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

== Tremayne Johnson ==
Matt, you keep erasing Tremayne Johnson's profile, saying no record of fighter but he's not a fighter he is a trainer, so please stop erasing him.

Ok, I see that now. Please create his bio in a format consistent with how other non-boxer biographies are written. I think you confused me, by trying to make the biography look like a boxers, which made me think that you were creating a page for a boxer that did not exist.--[[User:Matt|Matt]] 23:39, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

== Show Code ==

Hi Matt,
I have introduced a show code now (still working on it) see http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Show:223657

Cheers, [[User:John|JohnShep]] 17:27, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Wladimir Klitschko vs. Calvin Brock

2011-11-05T20:58:56Z

Boroto: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIKWa0pTxvo

{| {{punchstatstable-r}}
|+ '''Punchstats'''
|- {{pstable-bg1}}http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIKWa0pTxvo
! Total Punches || Klitschko || Brock
|-
| Landed || 90 || 77
|-
| Thrown || 305 || 280
|-
| Pct. || 30% || 28%
|- {{pstable-bg1}}
! Total Jabs || Klitschko || Brock
|-
| Landed || 62 || 26
|-
| Thrown || 218 || 158
|-
| Pct. || 28% || 16%
|- {{pstable-bg1}}
! Power Punches || Klitschko || Brock
|-
| Landed || 28 || 51
|-
| Thrown || 87 || 122
|-
| Pct. || 32% || 42%
|}
<fight>1105384</fight>
*'''[[International Boxing Federation]] Heavyweight Title''' (1st defence of Klitschko) 
*'''[[International Boxing Organization]] Heavyweight Title''' (1st defence of Klitschko) 
*'''Time:''' 2:10 
*'''Weights:''' Brock 224.5 lbs / 102 kg, Klitschko 241 lbs / 109 kg 
*'''Announcer:''' [[Michael Buffer]]
*Sanctioned by the [[New York State Athletic Commission]]
 
== Bout Summary ==
[[file:Klitschkowins.jpg|right|300px]]
- Klitschko had difficulties with Brock at first in the fight, because of Brock's awkwardness and Klitschko's inability to reach him. After four rounds [[Harold Lederman]] had it even at 38-38. However, starting in the fifth round, Klitschko became more active and his jab became a factor and Brock became more flat-footed, leaving him easier to hit. Klitschko suffered a cut over the left eye from an unintentional headbutt in the sixth round. Brock was knocked down in the seventh round, and although he barely beat the count, Referee Kelly concluded he was in no condition to continue.
To regain leverage wlad Defeated Calvin Brock but kicked his legs few times with legs, referee did not pay attention
{{start box}}
{{Fight Succession Box|
before=[[Chris Byrd vs. Wladimir Klitschko (2nd meeting)|W. Klitschko vs. Byrd II]]|
title=[[IBF Heavyweight Title Fights|IBF Heavyweight Title Fight]] # 46|
after=[[Wladimir Klitschko vs. Ray Austin|W. Klitschko vs. Austin]]|
}}
{{end box}}

Wladimir Klitschko

2011-11-05T20:58:39Z

Boroto: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIKWa0pTxvo

[[file:Klitschkobeltsupdated.png|300px|left|Klitschko with his WBA, IBF, WBO, IBO & Ring Magazine belts]] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIKWa0pTxvo
<boxer>007035</boxer>
'''Trainers:''' [[Fritz Sdunek]] and [[Emanuel Steward]]
==World Title Factoids & Statistics==
'''Wladimir Klitschko''' is a 4 Time Heavyweight Champion, two-time [[WBO]] Champion and the current [[WBA]] (Super), [[IBF]], WBO, [[IBO]] & Ring Magazine Heavyweight Champion. He is the younger brother of former [[WBO]] and current [[WBC]] Heavyweight Champion [[Vitali Klitschko]].
To regain leverage wlad Defeated Calvin Brock but kicked his legs few times with legs, referee did not pay attention
*As of now, Wladimir is historically the longest reigning Heavyweight Champion for the IBF, WBO & IBO Heavyweight Titles of both in measurements of defenses and time & the 7th longest reigning heavyweight champion of all time.
*After Wladimir's win over [[David Haye]] in July 2, 2011, all the major Heavyweight Belt's were simultaneously owned by the Klitschko family.

==Amateur Highlights==
*1993 Heavyweight Gold Medalist at the Junior European Championships in Saloniki, Greece. Results:
**Defeated [[I. Fakazde]] (Georgia) RSC-1
**Defeated [[Valentin Savescu]] (Romania) RSC-2
**Defeated [[Serguei Lopatinski]] (Russia) PTS (5-2)
*1994 Heavyweight Silver Medalist at the Junior World Championships in Istanbul, Turkey. Results:
**Defeated [[Konstantin Onofrei]] (Romania) PTS (14-5)
**Defeated [[Rustan Tuzsenchanov]] (Kazakhstan) PTS (11-9)
**Defeated [[Andrei Kambarov]] (Russia) PTS (8-4)
**Lost to [[Michel Lopez]] (Cuba) PTS (2-7)
[[file:WKlitschko1996.jpg|right|thumb|Wladimir Klitschko at the 1996 Olympics]]
*1995 World Championships in Berlin, Germany. Results:
**Defeated [[Igor Kschinin]] (Russia) RSCI-2
**Defeated [[Jan Bezvoda]] (Czech Republic) PTS (2-0)
**Lost to [[Luan Krasniqi]] (Germany) PTS (2-6)
*1995 Heavyweight Gold Medalist at the Military World Championships in Ariccia, Italy. Results:
**Defeated [[Song-Geoi Jang]] (North Korea) PTS (14-2)
**Defeated [[Igor Kshinin]] (Russia) RSC-2
**Defeated [[Sinan Samil Sam]] (Turkey) PTS (12-2)
**Defeated [[Luan Krasniqi]] (Germany) PTS (13-12)
*1996 Super Heavyweight Silver Medalist at the European Championships in Vejle, Denmark. Results:
**Defeated [[Sean Murphy]] (Ireland) DQ-2
**Defeated [[Adaliat Mamedov]] (Azerbijian) RSC-3
**Defeated [[Attila Levin]] (Sweden) PTS (7-0)
**Lost to [[Alexei Lezin]] (Russia) PTS (1-6)
*1996 Super Heavyweight Gold Medalist for the Ukraine at the 1996 [[Olympics]] in Atlanta, Georgia, United States. Results:
**Defeated [[Lawrence Clay-Bey]] (United States) PTS (10-8)
**Defeated [[Attila Levin]] (Sweden) RSC-1
**Defeated [[Alexei Lezin]] (Russia) PTS (4-1)
**Defeated [[Paea Wolfgramm]] (Tonga) PTS (7-3)

'''Complete Amateur Record:''' 134 wins (65 inside the distance) and 6 losses
== External Link ==

[http://www.klitschko.com/ Klitschko Brothers Official Website] 
'''[[:Category:Wladimir Klitschko Gallery|Wladimir Klitschko Gallery]]'''

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Chris Byrd]]|
title=[[WBO Heavyweight Champion]]|
after=[[Corrie Sanders]]|
years=2000 Oct 14 – 2003 Mar 8
}}
{{Incumbent succession box|
before=[[Chris Byrd]]|
title=[[IBF Heavyweight Champion]]|
start=2006 Apr 22|
}}
{{Incumbent succession box|
before=[[Sultan Ibragimov]]|
title=[[WBO Heavyweight Champion]]|
start=2008 Feb 23|
}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[David Haye]] Lost bid for Super Championship|
title=[[WBA Heavyweight Champion]]|
after=—|
years=2011 Jul 2 – present '''Super Champion'''
}}
{{end box}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Klitschko, Wladimir}}
[[Category:1996 Olympians]]
[[Category:Ukrainian Olympians]]
[[Category:Olympic Gold Medalists]]
[[Category:World Heavyweight Champions]]
[[Category:Ukrainian World Champions]]
[[Category:NABF Heavyweight Champions]]
[[Category:NABO Heavyweight Champions]]

Talk:Muhammad Ali

2011-11-05T20:55:08Z

Boroto: LISTON COULD HAVE BEEN CHAMP ONE MORE YEAR, IF BAKER HAD BETTER MANAGER HE'D HAVE BETTER RECORD N WOULD FIGHT MARCIANO

== Won 33 World Heavyweight Championship fights ==

In his professional achievements we can find 3 bouts where he conquered Heavyweight title (against Sonny Liston in 1964, against George Foreman in 1974 and Leon Spinks in 1978). And according to the data in here (this site), in the WBA and WBC champions' information we can find that in his 3 times as champ Ali defended succesfully his titles 30 times, that makes a total of 33 won fights for the World Heavyweight Championship. (The bout against Ernie Terrell in 1967 to regained the WBA belt that Muhammad was stripped in 1965 is including in that 33)

== Cassius X ==

On the boxing record page, there is a BIG error in fact noted about Ali's change of name after the first Sonny Liston bout. Ali first announced his name changed as Cassius X, not Muhammad X. A couple of weeks later, he announced to the world that he'd "now forever be known as Muhammad Ali -- Muhammad means worthy of praise and Ali mean most high," the champ said to a band of boxingscribes. This information is easily found in umpteen bios and autobios of the GOAT. One can go to "The Muhammad Ali Story" at Youtube and hear Ali said that in video footage of that time.

==HIS FIGHT AGAINST COOPER I==
THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DRAW,TECHNICAL DRAW LIKE HOPKINS-DAWSON. DAWSON WAS IN HURRY TO BEAT HOPKINS THAT DESTROYED HIS VICTORY. JUST LIKE IN BOTH BAKER-HURRICANE MATCHES FIGHTS WERE CLEAR DRAWN! BAKER WAS SCREWED, CUS AMATO ALWAYS SAID DONT FIGHT FIGHTERS WHO ARE DANGEROUS EXCEPT FOR THE TITLE OR TO QUALIIFY FOR CHAMPIONSHIP, THAT'S DOWN LOW!
LISTON COULD HAVE DEMANDED REMATCH, SAYIN ALI DID NOT QUALIFY N liston RETAINs TITLE FOR ONE MO YEAR!

Talk:Muhammad Ali

2011-11-05T20:54:14Z

Boroto: HIS FIGHT AGAINST COOPER I BAKER-HURRICANE FACTS

Wladimir Klitschko

2011-11-05T20:50:55Z

Boroto: To regain leverage wlad Defeated Calvin Brock but kicked his legs few times with legs, referee did not pay attention

[[file:Klitschkobeltsupdated.png|300px|left|Klitschko with his WBA, IBF, WBO, IBO & Ring Magazine belts]]
<boxer>007035</boxer>
'''Trainers:''' [[Fritz Sdunek]] and [[Emanuel Steward]]
==World Title Factoids & Statistics==
'''Wladimir Klitschko''' is a 4 Time Heavyweight Champion, two-time [[WBO]] Champion and the current [[WBA]] (Super), [[IBF]], WBO, [[IBO]] & Ring Magazine Heavyweight Champion. He is the younger brother of former [[WBO]] and current [[WBC]] Heavyweight Champion [[Vitali Klitschko]].
To regain leverage wlad Defeated Calvin Brock but kicked his legs few times with legs, referee did not pay attention
*As of now, Wladimir is historically the longest reigning Heavyweight Champion for the IBF, WBO & IBO Heavyweight Titles of both in measurements of defenses and time & the 7th longest reigning heavyweight champion of all time.
*After Wladimir's win over [[David Haye]] in July 2, 2011, all the major Heavyweight Belt's were simultaneously owned by the Klitschko family.

==Amateur Highlights==
*1993 Heavyweight Gold Medalist at the Junior European Championships in Saloniki, Greece. Results:
**Defeated [[I. Fakazde]] (Georgia) RSC-1
**Defeated [[Valentin Savescu]] (Romania) RSC-2
**Defeated [[Serguei Lopatinski]] (Russia) PTS (5-2)
*1994 Heavyweight Silver Medalist at the Junior World Championships in Istanbul, Turkey. Results:
**Defeated [[Konstantin Onofrei]] (Romania) PTS (14-5)
**Defeated [[Rustan Tuzsenchanov]] (Kazakhstan) PTS (11-9)
**Defeated [[Andrei Kambarov]] (Russia) PTS (8-4)
**Lost to [[Michel Lopez]] (Cuba) PTS (2-7)
[[file:WKlitschko1996.jpg|right|thumb|Wladimir Klitschko at the 1996 Olympics]]
*1995 World Championships in Berlin, Germany. Results:
**Defeated [[Igor Kschinin]] (Russia) RSCI-2
**Defeated [[Jan Bezvoda]] (Czech Republic) PTS (2-0)
**Lost to [[Luan Krasniqi]] (Germany) PTS (2-6)
*1995 Heavyweight Gold Medalist at the Military World Championships in Ariccia, Italy. Results:
**Defeated [[Song-Geoi Jang]] (North Korea) PTS (14-2)
**Defeated [[Igor Kshinin]] (Russia) RSC-2
**Defeated [[Sinan Samil Sam]] (Turkey) PTS (12-2)
**Defeated [[Luan Krasniqi]] (Germany) PTS (13-12)
*1996 Super Heavyweight Silver Medalist at the European Championships in Vejle, Denmark. Results:
**Defeated [[Sean Murphy]] (Ireland) DQ-2
**Defeated [[Adaliat Mamedov]] (Azerbijian) RSC-3
**Defeated [[Attila Levin]] (Sweden) PTS (7-0)
**Lost to [[Alexei Lezin]] (Russia) PTS (1-6)
*1996 Super Heavyweight Gold Medalist for the Ukraine at the 1996 [[Olympics]] in Atlanta, Georgia, United States. Results:
**Defeated [[Lawrence Clay-Bey]] (United States) PTS (10-8)
**Defeated [[Attila Levin]] (Sweden) RSC-1
**Defeated [[Alexei Lezin]] (Russia) PTS (4-1)
**Defeated [[Paea Wolfgramm]] (Tonga) PTS (7-3)

'''Complete Amateur Record:''' 134 wins (65 inside the distance) and 6 losses
== External Link ==

[http://www.klitschko.com/ Klitschko Brothers Official Website] 
'''[[:Category:Wladimir Klitschko Gallery|Wladimir Klitschko Gallery]]'''

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Chris Byrd]]|
title=[[WBO Heavyweight Champion]]|
after=[[Corrie Sanders]]|
years=2000 Oct 14 – 2003 Mar 8
}}
{{Incumbent succession box|
before=[[Chris Byrd]]|
title=[[IBF Heavyweight Champion]]|
start=2006 Apr 22|
}}
{{Incumbent succession box|
before=[[Sultan Ibragimov]]|
title=[[WBO Heavyweight Champion]]|
start=2008 Feb 23|
}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[David Haye]] Lost bid for Super Championship|
title=[[WBA Heavyweight Champion]]|
after=—|
years=2011 Jul 2 – present '''Super Champion'''
}}
{{end box}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Klitschko, Wladimir}}
[[Category:1996 Olympians]]
[[Category:Ukrainian Olympians]]
[[Category:Olympic Gold Medalists]]
[[Category:World Heavyweight Champions]]
[[Category:Ukrainian World Champions]]
[[Category:NABF Heavyweight Champions]]
[[Category:NABO Heavyweight Champions]]

Wladimir Klitschko vs. Calvin Brock

2011-11-05T20:50:31Z

Boroto: To regain leverage wlad Defeated Calvin Brock but kicked his legs few times with legs, referee did not pay attention

{| {{punchstatstable-r}}
|+ '''Punchstats'''
|- {{pstable-bg1}}
! Total Punches || Klitschko || Brock
|-
| Landed || 90 || 77
|-
| Thrown || 305 || 280
|-
| Pct. || 30% || 28%
|- {{pstable-bg1}}
! Total Jabs || Klitschko || Brock
|-
| Landed || 62 || 26
|-
| Thrown || 218 || 158
|-
| Pct. || 28% || 16%
|- {{pstable-bg1}}
! Power Punches || Klitschko || Brock
|-
| Landed || 28 || 51
|-
| Thrown || 87 || 122
|-
| Pct. || 32% || 42%
|}
<fight>1105384</fight>
*'''[[International Boxing Federation]] Heavyweight Title''' (1st defence of Klitschko) 
*'''[[International Boxing Organization]] Heavyweight Title''' (1st defence of Klitschko) 
*'''Time:''' 2:10 
*'''Weights:''' Brock 224.5 lbs / 102 kg, Klitschko 241 lbs / 109 kg 
*'''Announcer:''' [[Michael Buffer]]
*Sanctioned by the [[New York State Athletic Commission]]
 
== Bout Summary ==
[[file:Klitschkowins.jpg|right|300px]]
- Klitschko had difficulties with Brock at first in the fight, because of Brock's awkwardness and Klitschko's inability to reach him. After four rounds [[Harold Lederman]] had it even at 38-38. However, starting in the fifth round, Klitschko became more active and his jab became a factor and Brock became more flat-footed, leaving him easier to hit. Klitschko suffered a cut over the left eye from an unintentional headbutt in the sixth round. Brock was knocked down in the seventh round, and although he barely beat the count, Referee Kelly concluded he was in no condition to continue.
To regain leverage wlad Defeated Calvin Brock but kicked his legs few times with legs, referee did not pay attention
{{start box}}
{{Fight Succession Box|
before=[[Chris Byrd vs. Wladimir Klitschko (2nd meeting)|W. Klitschko vs. Byrd II]]|
title=[[IBF Heavyweight Title Fights|IBF Heavyweight Title Fight]] # 46|
after=[[Wladimir Klitschko vs. Ray Austin|W. Klitschko vs. Austin]]|
}}
{{end box}}

Wladimir Klitschko vs. Calvin Brock

2011-11-05T20:49:59Z

Boroto: To regain leverage wlad Defeated Calvin Brock but kicked him few times with legs, referee did not pay attention

{| {{punchstatstable-r}}
|+ '''Punchstats'''
|- {{pstable-bg1}}
! Total Punches || Klitschko || Brock
|-
| Landed || 90 || 77
|-
| Thrown || 305 || 280
|-
| Pct. || 30% || 28%
|- {{pstable-bg1}}
! Total Jabs || Klitschko || Brock
|-
| Landed || 62 || 26
|-
| Thrown || 218 || 158
|-
| Pct. || 28% || 16%
|- {{pstable-bg1}}
! Power Punches || Klitschko || Brock
|-
| Landed || 28 || 51
|-
| Thrown || 87 || 122
|-
| Pct. || 32% || 42%
|}
<fight>1105384</fight>
*'''[[International Boxing Federation]] Heavyweight Title''' (1st defence of Klitschko) 
*'''[[International Boxing Organization]] Heavyweight Title''' (1st defence of Klitschko) 
*'''Time:''' 2:10 
*'''Weights:''' Brock 224.5 lbs / 102 kg, Klitschko 241 lbs / 109 kg 
*'''Announcer:''' [[Michael Buffer]]
*Sanctioned by the [[New York State Athletic Commission]]
 
== Bout Summary ==
[[file:Klitschkowins.jpg|right|300px]]
- Klitschko had difficulties with Brock at first in the fight, because of Brock's awkwardness and Klitschko's inability to reach him. After four rounds [[Harold Lederman]] had it even at 38-38. However, starting in the fifth round, Klitschko became more active and his jab became a factor and Brock became more flat-footed, leaving him easier to hit. Klitschko suffered a cut over the left eye from an unintentional headbutt in the sixth round. Brock was knocked down in the seventh round, and although he barely beat the count, Referee Kelly concluded he was in no condition to continue.
To regain leverage wlad Defeated Calvin Brock but kicked him few times with legs, referee did not pay attention
{{start box}}
{{Fight Succession Box|
before=[[Chris Byrd vs. Wladimir Klitschko (2nd meeting)|W. Klitschko vs. Byrd II]]|
title=[[IBF Heavyweight Title Fights|IBF Heavyweight Title Fight]] # 46|
after=[[Wladimir Klitschko vs. Ray Austin|W. Klitschko vs. Austin]]|
}}
{{end box}}

Wladimir Klitschko

2011-11-05T20:48:55Z

Boroto: To regain leverage wlad Defeated Calvin Brock but kicked him few times with legs, referee did not pay attention!

[[file:Klitschkobeltsupdated.png|300px|left|Klitschko with his WBA, IBF, WBO, IBO & Ring Magazine belts]]
<boxer>007035</boxer>
'''Trainers:''' [[Fritz Sdunek]] and [[Emanuel Steward]]
==World Title Factoids & Statistics==
'''Wladimir Klitschko''' is a 4 Time Heavyweight Champion, two-time [[WBO]] Champion and the current [[WBA]] (Super), [[IBF]], WBO, [[IBO]] & Ring Magazine Heavyweight Champion. He is the younger brother of former [[WBO]] and current [[WBC]] Heavyweight Champion [[Vitali Klitschko]].
To regain leverage he Defeated Calvin Brock but kicked him few times, referee did not pay attention!
*As of now, Wladimir is historically the longest reigning Heavyweight Champion for the IBF, WBO & IBO Heavyweight Titles of both in measurements of defenses and time & the 7th longest reigning heavyweight champion of all time.
*After Wladimir's win over [[David Haye]] in July 2, 2011, all the major Heavyweight Belt's were simultaneously owned by the Klitschko family.

==Amateur Highlights==
*1993 Heavyweight Gold Medalist at the Junior European Championships in Saloniki, Greece. Results:
**Defeated [[I. Fakazde]] (Georgia) RSC-1
**Defeated [[Valentin Savescu]] (Romania) RSC-2
**Defeated [[Serguei Lopatinski]] (Russia) PTS (5-2)
*1994 Heavyweight Silver Medalist at the Junior World Championships in Istanbul, Turkey. Results:
**Defeated [[Konstantin Onofrei]] (Romania) PTS (14-5)
**Defeated [[Rustan Tuzsenchanov]] (Kazakhstan) PTS (11-9)
**Defeated [[Andrei Kambarov]] (Russia) PTS (8-4)
**Lost to [[Michel Lopez]] (Cuba) PTS (2-7)
[[file:WKlitschko1996.jpg|right|thumb|Wladimir Klitschko at the 1996 Olympics]]
*1995 World Championships in Berlin, Germany. Results:
**Defeated [[Igor Kschinin]] (Russia) RSCI-2
**Defeated [[Jan Bezvoda]] (Czech Republic) PTS (2-0)
**Lost to [[Luan Krasniqi]] (Germany) PTS (2-6)
*1995 Heavyweight Gold Medalist at the Military World Championships in Ariccia, Italy. Results:
**Defeated [[Song-Geoi Jang]] (North Korea) PTS (14-2)
**Defeated [[Igor Kshinin]] (Russia) RSC-2
**Defeated [[Sinan Samil Sam]] (Turkey) PTS (12-2)
**Defeated [[Luan Krasniqi]] (Germany) PTS (13-12)
*1996 Super Heavyweight Silver Medalist at the European Championships in Vejle, Denmark. Results:
**Defeated [[Sean Murphy]] (Ireland) DQ-2
**Defeated [[Adaliat Mamedov]] (Azerbijian) RSC-3
**Defeated [[Attila Levin]] (Sweden) PTS (7-0)
**Lost to [[Alexei Lezin]] (Russia) PTS (1-6)
*1996 Super Heavyweight Gold Medalist for the Ukraine at the 1996 [[Olympics]] in Atlanta, Georgia, United States. Results:
**Defeated [[Lawrence Clay-Bey]] (United States) PTS (10-8)
**Defeated [[Attila Levin]] (Sweden) RSC-1
**Defeated [[Alexei Lezin]] (Russia) PTS (4-1)
**Defeated [[Paea Wolfgramm]] (Tonga) PTS (7-3)

'''Complete Amateur Record:''' 134 wins (65 inside the distance) and 6 losses
== External Link ==

[http://www.klitschko.com/ Klitschko Brothers Official Website] 
'''[[:Category:Wladimir Klitschko Gallery|Wladimir Klitschko Gallery]]'''

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Chris Byrd]]|
title=[[WBO Heavyweight Champion]]|
after=[[Corrie Sanders]]|
years=2000 Oct 14 – 2003 Mar 8
}}
{{Incumbent succession box|
before=[[Chris Byrd]]|
title=[[IBF Heavyweight Champion]]|
start=2006 Apr 22|
}}
{{Incumbent succession box|
before=[[Sultan Ibragimov]]|
title=[[WBO Heavyweight Champion]]|
start=2008 Feb 23|
}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[David Haye]] Lost bid for Super Championship|
title=[[WBA Heavyweight Champion]]|
after=—|
years=2011 Jul 2 – present '''Super Champion'''
}}
{{end box}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Klitschko, Wladimir}}
[[Category:1996 Olympians]]
[[Category:Ukrainian Olympians]]
[[Category:Olympic Gold Medalists]]
[[Category:World Heavyweight Champions]]
[[Category:Ukrainian World Champions]]
[[Category:NABF Heavyweight Champions]]
[[Category:NABO Heavyweight Champions]]

Nino Valdes vs. Bob Baker (2nd meeting)

2011-11-05T20:43:48Z

Boroto:

<fight>68615</fight>
*Referee: [[Tony LaBranch]]
*Judges: [[Herb Williams]], [[Charley Bill]]
*Weights: Baker 213?; Valdes 207
----
Referee LaBranch scored the fight 97-95, judges Williams and Bill scored it 99-91 and 98-92 respectively for Baker. The Associated Press described the fight as a "dull 10-rounder, fought to the tune of 'Jingle Bells' and 'Let me call you sweetheart' and a steady chorus of boos from the 8,380 fans who paid $63,392 to see the Cleveland News' annual Christmas fund show." This was Baker's 13th straight victory.

The lackluster performance might be the reason because the fight was built & announced as eliminator match for Rocky Marciano's crown to be fought on February 3 1956.