BoxRec - User contributions [en]

User talk:Matt

2008-03-31T13:26:27Z

El Intocable: /* Quincy Daniels */ new section

Please sign all comments, and enter them in the appropriate section, or if there is not one create another one. Unless you commented in error, please do not delete your text. I would prefer that the discussion remain here, as a record of what has transpired, and for possible future reference.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 14:37, 17 Jan 2006 (CST)

For older discussions see: [[User talk:Matt Tegen/Archive1]]

== Venues & Clubs ==

Matt, but the [[:Category:Venues & Clubs|Venues & Clubs]] category DOES include athletic clubs, in addition to boxing venues. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 12:09, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

I think boxing clubs (gyms) should be separate from venues or old athletic clubs that staged bouts. I moved the category to gyms. I think the category is poorly named anyway, it should probably be "Boxing Venues".--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 12:46, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

== Talk/Discussion Pages ==

Matt, why cannot people use the talk and discussion sections of pages to post their opinions about the subject of the page and to "discuss" it? To get aboard their soapbox if they so choose? Just wondering --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 17:35, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

He isn't discussing the contents of the article or how to improve it, which is what the talk page should be about. He is complaining about the number of weight divisons. I'd prefer to not encourage soapboxing, because I don't want the contributions to the wiki to become people opineing on different subjects on the talk pages. See: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#How_to_use_article_talk_pages] for Wikipedia's guidelines.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:44, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

==International Boxing Council==
Mat, I will not do name change, however if you check old newspapers you will know that they were called the International Boxing Club, headed by Jim Norris, Truman Gibson (secretary) and few others and that was the official name. I did inform Ric, it is up to you guys to decide if some articles deserve to be correct/ed or not. I do have pdf files with that name but due to copyright laws I will not share with anybody outside my circle.

== Fight Codes ==

Hey Matt, just wondering what I can do to figure out a fight code without the "blue books" that used to link from boxrec.com fight pages. Also, is the removal of the blue book links a permanent change with the new update? Sure hope not... (Sweetscientsist wrote)

No, it's not permanent. You may just want to be patient and wait.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 21:14, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

== Lennox Lewis page ==

gene tunney did not defeat every fighter he faced as a pro. he fought to a draw with tommy gavigan, fought to nc with renault, and technically fought to a no-decision with johnny risko.

riddick bowe has not defeated every fighter either. had a no-contest with buster mathis jr.

only marciano and johansson should be listed. the only current title holder would be chagaev that has defeated every opponent.

== Maybe the following talk pages require editing/deleting ==

[[Talk:Domenico Spada vs. Mustafa Karagol]]

--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 17:50, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

== Answer to the Sysop question ==

I should say that English is not my native language and I have no access to sources, which means that I could basically only continue to compare data within the database trying to find inaccuracies and errors. If that is no problem, I would like to become a Sysop, of course. If it is, I'm looking forward to going on as a common user.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 13:29, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

The database should be very accurate, particularly on dates. It's more likely that someone would see an error there, and inform us of it in the forum, than someone seeing an error in the wiki, as you are doing. I would suggest you fix it yourself, unless you have good reason to doubt that the record database is wrong.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 13:55, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

==Deleting certain fight pages?==

Some fight pages do not provide other information than the BoxRec database: Only the fight code is inserted, only the fact that a certain bout was the fighter's pro debut is mentioned (which is obvious assuming that the boxer's BoxRec Fight Record is complete) or only details are given which can be found in the BoxRec database, too. Thus clicking on these fight pages will not supply the users with further information (assuming that they are entering the fight page from the BoxRec database, which should be the usual case) so that deleting them seems to be a good idea (to save the users' time). On the other hand, editors might want to add more information to these pages in the future so that having deleted them would cause more work.

Example:

[[Fight:34988]] to be compared with [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=009314&cat=boxer Ricky Hatton in the BoxRec database]

or even:

[[Wladimir Klitschko vs. Fabio Eduardo Moli]] to be compared with [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=007035&cat=boxer Wladimir Klitschko in the BoxRec database] (I think providing the opportunity to click on the boxers' and the officials' names or on a category is not "enough" to create a fight page as users probably hope to find additional information when clicking on a "blue book" bout comment icon.)

Deleting or keeping them? And what if the current version of a page (like [[Fight:1112095|this]]) does not provide further information while past versions do (like [http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight%3A1112095&diff=77532&oldid=74772 these]?--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 12:06, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

I agree, I don't see why you need to create a page, when all you add is what is already appearing in BoxRec. I know I only create pages when I have comments about the bout to make. You should ask JollyDee why he created all those pages.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 18:46, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

So shall pages containing information which does not exceed what can be found in BoxRec be deleted? And what about the case described in the last paragraph of my comment above?--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 15:04, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

If you don't see ANY additional information in the wiki, than can be found in BoxRec, then delete it.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:58, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

== Hugh Pat Floyd ==

What do think, is this is also him ?
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=405484&cat=referee

[[User:John|JohnShep]] 19:59, 28 September 2007 (CDT)

I think it probably is, since Hugh Pat Floyd was from London, and it looks like the referee worked out of London.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 10:46, 1 October 2007 (CDT)

==Issues with boxer/fight codes==

Matt, there are some pages, the codes of which or the pages themselves need fixing or deleting.

The fight code on [[Fight:1137373|this page]] doesn't work. At the moment, a wrong code is inserted anyway, but the correct fight code doesn't function, too. The reason for that is given on the [[Talk:Fight:1137373|talk page]], which raises the question, if such a page should be deleted.

[[Human:322394|Here]] and [[Human:263398|here]] (after inserting in the latter page) the boxer codes fail.

Two boxer codes seem to be attributed to [[Odlanier Solis Fonte]], one of them doesn't work when inserted. (There are two redirect pages containing boxer codes in their name, the one that doesn't function is probably assigned to Solis wrongly.)

In [[Aileen Eaton|this case]] a non-boxer page has a redirect page containing a boxer code in its name that would generate some lines of information when inserted, while clicking on the career record link leads to "type mismatch".--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 08:25, 26 October 2007 (CDT)

==Title succession boxes==

Soon I'd like to go over the wiki pages of world champions adding title succession boxes where they are missing (as far as WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO titles are concerned) and correcting them where they do not agree with what the BoxRec database says. I assume interim championships are not to be mentioned in those boxes as they do not occur in the lists of title lineages either.

What I've noticed while taking a look at those pages in advance is that in the middle box of a title succession box the dash between the dates that mark the beginning and the end of a champion's reign often lacks a space before it (or there is a space behind it where there should be none).

An example is [[Jesse James Leija|Jesse James Leija's]] succession box, which looks as follows up to now:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994– 17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

Should a space be both before and after the dash?:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994 – 17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

Or should there be no space around the dash?:

{{start box}}
{{Succession box|
before=[[Azumah Nelson]]|
title=[[WBC Super Featherweight Champion]]|
after=[[Gabriel Ruelas]]|
years=7 May 1994–17 Sep 1994
}}
{{end box}}

The main wikipedia seems to prefer spaces around the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endash#En_dash en dash], if I get the second paragraph of the usage guidelines section right.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 14:21, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

There should be spaces around the dash, I think.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 15:35, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

== "Retired" vs. "Vacated" ==

Matt, would you mind replying to Emaster's question to me regarding "Retired" vs. "Vacated"? Thanks in advance. --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 20:04, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

I don't want to cause a fuss with my little questions; the latest of them are on Ric's [[User talk:Ric#"Retired" vs. "Vacated"|talk page]], which I'm simply going to handle as follows unless I'll receive other instructions: 
1. If a champion has vacated his title and really never fought again he retired. 
2. If a champion has vacated his title, but returned to the ring later he vacated his title.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 21:57, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

If a fighter said he was retiring, thereby giving up his title, he retired in my book. In the case of Ali, his third title reign ended by retirement, he wasn't stripped or he didn't abandon his title. I know when I added many of those title boxes, I took care to note whether someone retired or vacated. Also, I have been corrected by others who have caught my mistakes. If you have questions you should be able to find a lot of stuff through a google search and a little digging. If not, then ask, somebody here can probably figure it out, unless it is some of the recent shenanigans that the alphabet soup game pull off.--[[User:Matt Tegen|Matt Tegen]] 23:00, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Your explanation of Ali's case provides the definition I sought for; my simple definiton offered above is therefore not applicable. Whenever I see differing statements regarding the question "retired or vacated?" or "vacated or stripped" respectively while comparing the lists of title lineages with the title succession boxes on boxer pages I'm going to perform a google search to find out which statement was correct.--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 10:41, 2 November 2007 (CDT)

== Fight missing in BoxRec ==
[[Bjarne Lingaas vs. J. Walach|This fight]] is still in the encyclopaedia though it was removed from BoxRec. [[User talk:Tron#Bjarne Lingaas vs. J. Walach|Here's]] a talk about that. I'm not sure if such a bout is to be deleted.

== Which fights were for the WBA or the WBC heavyweight title? ==
In BoxRec changes might be necessary in terms of determining, in which fights the WBA or the WBC heavyweight title was at stake. The issue is described [[Talk:WBA Heavyweight Champion|here]] and on [[Talk:WBC Heavyweight Champion|this page]].

== More fights for vacant world titles? ==
There are probably some fights in BoxRec with world titles at stake that were vacant prior to the bouts though the database doesn't state that.

The following fights were for titles which were abandoned by or stripped of their holders. In BoxRec, though, they are not marked vacant, which is correct if one of the contestants of a bout was appointed champion prior to the fight. Otherwise, the fact that the title was indeed vacant prior to the bout should be added in the database.

1993-05-19: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=1012&cat=boxer Sumbu Kalambay] vs. [[Chris Pyatt]] for the vacant (?) WBO middleweight title 
1996-03-01: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=1538&cat=boxer Santos Cardona] vs. [[Bronco McKart]] for the vacant (?) WBO light middleweight title 
1966-11-28: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=12560&cat=boxer Jean Josselin] vs. [[Curtis Cokes]] for the vacant (?) WBC welterweight title 
1992-06-29: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=693&cat=boxer Jimmy Paul] vs. [[Carlos Gonzalez]] for the vacant (?) WBO light welterweight title 
1995-02-20: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=4726&cat=boxer Fidel Avendano] vs. [[Sammy Fuentes]] for the vacant (?) WBO light welterweight title 
1971-02-12: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=31079&cat=boxer Ruben Navarro] vs. [[Ken Buchanan]] for the vacant (?) WBC lightweight title 
1997-12-13: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=659&cat=boxer Welcome Ncita] vs. [[Hector Lizarraga]] for the vacant (?) IBF featherweight title 
2000-07-22: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=7530&cat=boxer Nelson Dieppa] vs. [[Will Grigsby]] for the vacant (?) WBO light flyweight title

The same applies to the following fights, with the difference that they were for interim titles:

2003-12-13: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=6070&cat=boxer Hasim Rahman] vs. [[John Ruiz]] for the vacant (?) WBA heavyweight interim title 
2005-08-13: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=7739&cat=boxer Monte Barrett] vs. [[Hasim Rahman]] for the vacant (?) WBC heavyweight interim title 
2006-12-02: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=22021&cat=boxer Luis Andres Pineda] vs. [[Valery Brudov]] for the vacant (?) WBA cruiserweight interim title 
2006-07-08: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=004174&cat=boxer Marcelo Fabian Dominguez] vs. [[Enzo Maccarinelli]] for the vacant (?) WBO cruiserweight interim title 
1998-12-05: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=007665&cat=boxer Anthony Bigeni] vs. [[Richard Hall]] for the vacant (?) WBA light heavyweight interim title 
1996-11-22: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=566&cat=boxer Mike McCallum] vs. [[Roy Jones Jr]] for the vacant (?) WBC light heavyweight interim title 
2003-12-20: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=006405&cat=boxer Eric Lucas] vs. [[Danny Green]] for the vacant (?) WBC super middleweight interim title 
2004-05-08: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=019292&cat=boxer Kabary Salem] vs. [[Mario Veit]] for the vacant (?) WBO super middleweight interim title 
1998-09-19: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=006178&cat=boxer Abdullah Ramadan] vs. [[Robert Allen]] for the vacant (?) IBF middleweight interim title 
1999-07-17: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=7495&cat=boxer Ryan Rhodes] vs. [[Jason Matthews]] for the vacant (?) WBO middleweight interim title 
2001-07-21: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=002140&cat=boxer Hacine Cherifi] vs. [[Harry Simon]] for the vacant (?) WBO middleweight interim title 
2003-05-10: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=14294&cat=boxer Andras Galfi] vs. [[Hector Javier Velazco]] for the vacant (?) WBO middleweight interim title 
2002-08-10: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=7898&cat=boxer Mamadou Thiam] vs. [[Santiago Samaniego]] for the vacant (?) WBA light middleweight interim title 
2005-05-21: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=015623&cat=boxer Rhoshii Wells] vs. [[Alejandro Garcia]] for the vacant (?) WBA light middleweight interim title 
2002-07-12: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=015161&cat=boxer Roman Karmazin] vs. [[Javier Castillejo]] for the vacant (?) WBO light middleweight interim title 
2007-12-08: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=17070&cat=boxer Frederic Klose] vs. [[Yuriy Nuzhnenko]] for the vacant (?) WBA welterweight interim title 
2007-02-10: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=20231&cat=boxer Luis Collazo] vs. [[Shane Mosley]] for the vacant (?) WBC welterweight interim title 
2004-07-17: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=15478&cat=boxer Teddy Reid] vs. [[Kermit Cintron]] for the vacant (?) WBC welterweight interim title 
1998-11-28: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=6093&cat=boxer Diosbelys Hurtado] vs. [[Kostya Tszyu]] for the vacant (?) WBC light welterweight title interim title 
1999-01-16: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=7796&cat=boxer Wilfredo Negron] vs. [[Zab Judah]] for the vacant (?) WBC light welterweight title interim title 
2004-02-07: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=14180&cat=boxer Lovemore N'dou] vs. [[Sharmba Mitchell]] for the vacant (?) IBF light welterweight title interim title 
2006-05-20: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=55171&cat=boxer Chikashi Inada] vs. [[Jose Armando Santa Cruz]] for the vacant (?) WBC lightweight interim title 
2006-05-18: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=7918&cat=boxer Ricky Quiles] vs. [[Julio Diaz]] for the vacant (?) IBF lightweight interim title 
2007-02-17: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=14946&cat=boxer Graham Earl] vs. [[Michael Katsidis]] for the vacant (?) WBO lightweight interim title 
2003-09-26: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=17053&cat=boxer Oscar Leon] vs. [[Chris John]] for the vacant (?) WBA featherweight interim title 
2000-09-02: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=1362&cat=boxer Kevin Kelley] vs. [[Erik Morales]] for the vacant (?) WBC featherweight interim title 
2005-08-20: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=1366&cat=boxer Rocky Juarez] vs. [[Humberto Soto]] for the vacant (?) WBC featherweight interim title 
2002-06-08: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=32473&cat=boxer Victor Santiago] vs. [[Scott Harrison]] for the vacant (?) WBO featherweight interim title 
2006-08-05: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=205579&cat=boxer Terdsak Jandaeng] vs. [[Juan Manuel Marquez]] for the vacant (?) WBO featherweight interim title 
1998-10-03: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=1644&cat=boxer Hector Acero Sanchez] vs. [[Carlos Barreto]] for the vacant (?) WBA super bantamweight interim title 
1999-10-10: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=6725&cat=boxer Yober Ortega] vs. [[Antonio Cermeno]] for the vacant (?) WBA super bantamweight interim title 
2000-11-23: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=7976&cat=boxer Kozo Ishii] vs. [[Yober Ortega]] for the vacant (?) WBA super bantamweight interim title 
2005-10-15: Yober Ortega vs. [[Celestino Caballero]] for the vacant (?) WBA super bantamweight interim title 
2002-05-17: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=9086&cat=boxer Israel Vazquez] vs. [[Oscar Larios]] for the vacant (?) WBC super bantamweight interim title 
2000-12-16: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=34362&cat=boxer Saohin Srithai Condo] vs. [[Eidy Moya]] for the vacant (?) WBA bantamweight interim title 
2003-10-04: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=517&cat=boxer Leo Gamez] vs. [[Hideki Todaka]] for the vacant (?) WBA bantamweight interim title 
2005-08-31: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=37322&cat=boxer Ricardo Cordoba] vs. [[Poonsawat Kratingdaenggym]] for the vacant (?) WBA bantamweight interim title 
1992-03-30: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=13015&cat=boxer Yong Hoon Lee] vs. [[Victor Rabanales]] for the vacant (?) WBC bantamweight interim title 
1993-07-22: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=2026&cat=boxer Victor Rabanales] vs. [[Joichiro Tatsuyoshi]] for the vacant (?) WBC bantamweight interim title 
1996-08-10: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=8022&cat=boxer Jose Luis Bueno] vs. [[Sirimongkol Singwancha]] for the vacant (?) WBC bantamweight interim title 
1999-05-29: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=5845&cat=boxer Josue Camacho] vs. [[Leo Gamez]] for the vacant (?) WBA super flyweight interim title 
2004-05-16: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=14767&cat=boxer Hideyasu Ishihara] vs. [[Martin Castillo]] for the vacant (?) WBA super flyweight interim title 
2006-09-18: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=14352&cat=boxer Katsushige Kawashima] vs. [[Cristian Mijares]] for the vacant (?) WBC super flyweight interim title 
1998-10-03: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=3257&cat=boxer Jose Bonilla] vs. [[Mauricio Pastrana]] for the vacant (?) WBA flyweight interim title 
2006-12-02: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=15313&cat=boxer Takefumi Sakata] vs. [[Roberto Vasquez]] for the vacant (?) WBA flyweight interim title 
1997-05-09: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=948&cat=boxer Ysaias Zamudio] vs. [[Chatchai Sasakul]] for the vacant (?) WBC flyweight interim title 
2005-07-30: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=7707&cat=boxer Angel Antonio Priolo] vs. [[Jorge Arce]] for the vacant (?) WBC flyweight interim title 
1995-12-16: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=8752&cat=boxer Ferid Ben Jeddou] vs. [[Robbie Regan]] for the vacant (?) IBF flyweight interim title 
2002-05-04: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=15631&cat=boxer Jair Jimenez] vs. [[Adonis Rivas]] for the vacant (?) WBO flyweight interim title 
2003-11-15: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=5228&cat=boxer Yo-Sam Choi] vs. [[Beibis Mendoza]] for the vacant (?) WBA light flyweight interim title 
2001-10-20: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=7684&cat=boxer Juanito Rubillar] vs. Jorge Arce for the vacant (?) WBC light flyweight interim title 
2006-07-18: Juanito Rubillar vs. [[Wandee Singwancha]] for the vacant (?) WBC light flyweight interim title 
2003-07-11: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=37133&cat=boxer John Alberto Molina] vs. [[Kermin Guardia]] for the vacant (?) WBO light flyweight interim title 
1999-01-30: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=1858&cat=boxer Ronnie Magramo] vs. [[Songkram Porpaoin]] for the vacant (?) WBA minimumweight interim title 
1999-12-04: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=6340&cat=boxer Satoru Abe] vs. [[Joma Gamboa]] for the vacant (?) WBA minimumweight interim title 
2004-01-31: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=1234&cat=boxer Chana Porpaoin] vs.[[Juan Jose Landaeta]] for the vacant (?) WBA minimumweight interim title 
2006-11-07: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=78415&cat=boxer Carlos Melo] vs. [[Katsunari Takayama]] for the vacant (?) WBA minimumweight interim title 
1998-08-23: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=1236&cat=boxer Rocky Lin] vs. Wandee Singwancha for the vacant (?) WBC minimumweight interim title 
2002-06-29: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=60738&cat=boxer Reynaldo Frutos] vs. [[Jorge Mata]] for the vacant (?) WBO minimumweight interim title 

If a defending champion is overweight he loses his title on the scales. Thus the following bouts should have been for vacant titles:

2006-10-07: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=6722&cat=boxer Diego Corrales] vs. [[Joel Casamayor]] for the vacant (?) WBC lightweight title 
2005-04-08: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=30264&cat=boxer Mike Anchondo] vs. [[Jorge Rodrigo Barrios]] for the vacant (?) WBO super featherweight title 
2006-09-16: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=18943&cat=boxer Jorge Rodrigo Barrios] vs. [[Joan Guzman]] for the vacant (?) WBO super featherweight title 
1972-12-16: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=23641&cat=boxer Clemente Sanchez] vs. [[Jose Legra]] for the vacant (?) WBC featherweight title 
2007-03-19: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=43081&cat=boxer Lorenzo Parra] vs. [[Takefumi Sakata]] for the vacant (?) WBA flyweight title 
1999-09-17: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=6129&cat=boxer Manny Pacquiao] vs. [[Medgoen Singsurat]] 
2004-10-02: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=15215&cat=boxer Beibis Mendoza] vs. [[Rosendo Alvarez]] for the vacant (?) WBA light flyweight title 
2000-08-20: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=7037&cat=boxer Noel Arambulet] vs. [[Joma Gamboa]] for the vacant (?) WBA minimumweight title 
1998-11-13: [http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=4873&cat=boxer Rosendo Alvarez] vs. [[Ricardo Lopez]] for the vacant (?) WBA minimumweight title 

There are two bouts, originally eliminators, which were changed to title fights retroactively as the reigning champions abandoned their belts: In BoxRec the fight [[Lovemore N'dou]] vs. [[Naoufel Ben Rabah]] is considered to have been for the ''vacant'' IBF light welterweight title whereas, according to the database, the bout [[Jorge Linares]] vs. [[Oscar Larios]] was for the ''nonvacant'' WBC featherweight title. Both of the fights should be treated the same, however. In my opinion deeming the titles vacant before the fights took place would be correct as none of the contestants held them prior to the bouts.

[[Category talk:World Champions By Weight Class#Inconsistent treatment of inaugural title fights by BoxRec and title lineage listings|This page]], among other things, deals with the question whether inaugural world titles should be considered vacant if one of the contestants was a champion holding another world title in the same weight class before competing for the newly created title.

--[[User:Emaster|Emaster]] 01:13, 19 December 2007 (CST)

== Quincy Daniels ==

Matt,

The record and biography of the following boxer:

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:28823

actually represent two people. Quincey Daniels, the 1960 Olympian, made his pro debut in 1965 against Frank Jennings; they both weighed 145 1/4, according to AP. The other Daniels turned pro in 1970, he was 22 at the time. Could you split these two records and make the necessary corrections?

Thank you very much in advance!

Sam Langford vs. George (Elbows) McFadden

2008-03-07T20:27:39Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>148274</fight> ''New York Sun, July 31, 1904:'' “George McFadden, who was rated among the top notchers in the lightweight division a few years ago, went down and out in the sec...

<fight>148274</fight>

''New York Sun, July 31, 1904:''

“George McFadden, who was rated among the top notchers in the lightweight division a few years ago, went down and out in the second round of his bout with Sam Langford, the colored Boston pugilist, at Manchester, N. H., on Friday night. The men were to have boxed fifteen rounds at catch-weights, but the New Yorker was outclassed from the outset. Langford is a cyclone as far as fighting is concerned. He went after McFadden without let-up and the conqueror of George Lavigne was not in it. The end came after McFadden had got home a light jab. Langford bored in and, swinging the left and right several times, finally caught McFadden on the jaw and put him to sleep. The blow was so hard that McFadden did not recover for over two minutes.”

George (Elbows) McFadden vs. Rube McCarthy

2008-03-07T19:52:12Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>1101440</fight> ''New York Sun, December 29, 1905:'' “George McFadden, known professionally as Elbows, was the star performer at the McFadden A. C., 130th street and Third aven...

<fight>1101440</fight>

''New York Sun, December 29, 1905:''

“George McFadden, known professionally as Elbows, was the star performer at the McFadden A. C., 130th street and Third avenue, last night. McFadden met Rube McCarthy, a six footer, who recently made a fine showing with Benny Yanger.

“The Rube started off auspiciously, getting to McFadden’s jaw. But George came back with a hard right and left swings to the Rube’s head. When the bell sounded McCarthy was shaky on his pins and staggered to his corner.

“In the second McFadden had things his own way. He drove McCarthy all over the ring with hard uppercuts to the wind. One left put McCarthy down for the count. McCarthy was in a bad way and the gong sounded to save him. McFadden was determined to finish his man in the third and succeeded. After fighting viciously for two minutes McFadden landed a heavy smash on the Rube’s eye. McCarthy went down and was unable to get up.”

Joe Gans vs. George (Elbows) McFadden (2nd meeting)

2008-03-06T20:40:54Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>18121</fight> * '''Attendance:''' 5,000 * '''Referee:''' Johnny White ''Chicago Tribune, July 29, 1899:'' “George McFadden of New York and Joe Gans of Baltimore fought twenty-...

<fight>18121</fight>

* '''Attendance:''' 5,000
* '''Referee:''' Johnny White

''Chicago Tribune, July 29, 1899:''

“George McFadden of New York and Joe Gans of Baltimore fought twenty-five rounds at a killing pace in the arena of the Broadway Athletic club tonight to what Referee John White called a draw. A majority of the 5,000 persons who packed the auditorium of the club were of the opinion that the colored lad from the Southern city had made the better showing.

“The opening rounds were cautious. McFadden kept trying with his right for the body and almost invariably followed a lead with a careful clinch, while Gans used his left straight and in hooks. It was pretty, but not decisive. There was a gradual increase in pace and McFadden seemed to have a shade the better of it. He began to force matters in the sixth and when the round was over had his opponent clearly distressed. Gans was fresher in the seventh and made the pace, but seemed unable to properly gauge the local boxer, while McFadden kept pegging away with his right to the body and left to the face.

“Gans began to take matters into his hands in the ninth, which was a hurricane. He fought McFadden all over the ring and the best the latter could do was to care for his chin and stomach with his gloves. It looked like Gans for three rounds and the now thoroughly aroused crowd frantically cheered him on. The men fought at close range and there were protests from both as to the use of the elbow. White warned both and had to repeatedly break them apart.

“Gans again took the lead in the fifteenth, and although his margin was not wide seemed to have the better of it for five rounds. McFadden recovered in the twentieth and twenty-first and made the pace. He forced Gans around the ring and kept trying with his right for the chin. Gans fought back and made both these rounds even. In the twenty-fourth Gans went in to win and it looked for a time as if he would pull out a victory with a punch. The twenty-fifth and last round saw another complete reversal. McFadden suddenly rallied and fought Gans to a standstill. It was his showing in that round that saved him from an adverse decision.”

Fight:1034181

2008-03-06T20:00:13Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>1034181</fight> ''Brooklyn Eagle, August 20, 1895:'' "George McFadden and George Reynolds boxed three disappointing rounds in which no decision was given."

<fight>1034181</fight>

''Brooklyn Eagle, August 20, 1895:''

"George McFadden and George Reynolds boxed three disappointing rounds in which no decision was given."

Fight:650692

2008-03-06T18:00:10Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>650692</fight> * '''Venue:''' Syracuse A.A. ''Toronto Globe and Mail, March 23, 1897:'' “Syracuse, March 22.—Jim Popp, the Canadian light-weight champion, proved himself mor...

<fight>650692</fight>

* '''Venue:''' Syracuse A.A.

''Toronto Globe and Mail, March 23, 1897:''

“Syracuse, March 22.—Jim Popp, the Canadian light-weight champion, proved himself more than a match for Joe Dean, the Buffalo light-weight, in their battle before the Syracuse A. A. to-night. He forced the fight from the start, seeming able to land almost at will on Dean’s head, neck and shoulders. In the ninth round Dean was felled twice, and as the gong sounded his seconds threw up the sponge.”

The Syracuse Standard published a round-by-round report on March 23, 1897.

Fight:179433

2008-03-06T17:37:34Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>179433</fight> * '''Venue:''' Toronto A.C. * '''Attendance:''' 800 * '''Referee:''' Yank Sullivan ''Toronto Globe and Mail, October 4, 1897:'' “Erne assured his followers and ...

<fight>179433</fight>

* '''Venue:''' Toronto A.C.
* '''Attendance:''' 800
* '''Referee:''' Yank Sullivan

''Toronto Globe and Mail, October 4, 1897:''

“Erne assured his followers and the T. A. C. club officials prior to the contest that he would settle the Toronto lad in four rounds, and that he would then give an exhibition with his sparring partner, Frank Zimper, so as to give the crowd the worth of their money. But he calculated without his host; the sodawater bottle didn’t Popp, and when the gong rang at the end of the twentieth round, it found Jim mixing it up lively with the sadly-disappointed Buffalonian.”

“Although Referee ‘Yank’ Sullivan, in compliance with the wishes of the principals, declared the bout a draw, it was really a victory for Popp, as he landed oftener, and, what is more, was the least punished. A stiff right arm is the only reminder that he has of the contest, whilst Erne has a swollen lip, a discolored optic and some confidence out of work as a result of the encounter.”

Fight:1101244

2008-03-06T17:16:43Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>1101244</fight> * '''Venue:''' Toronto A.C. * '''Referee:''' Yank Sullivan ''Toronto Globe and Mail, November 1, 1897:'' “Popp was undeniably superior as a boxer and dodger, a...

<fight>1101244</fight>

* '''Venue:''' Toronto A.C.
* '''Referee:''' Yank Sullivan

''Toronto Globe and Mail, November 1, 1897:''

“Popp was undeniably superior as a boxer and dodger, and from the beginning to the end he ran McFadden all over the ring, landing at will, principally on the nose and jaw. The blows lacked steam, though, and half a dozen times, when McFadden appeared to be groggy and on the verge of collapse, Popp failed to follow up his advantage until too late. McFadden recovered wonderfully, though. He was on the defensive throughout, and his attitude and style would make one doubt very much the many victories that are credited to him. He stood up to the attack in the ordinary way, and used his hands nicely when looking for an opening, but the moment Popp led or feinted he would throw both arms across his neck and face in schoolboy fashion, and then if Popp landed he would swing the crossed arms out backwards, following up with wild forward swings, seemingly hoping to land a knock-out blow by chance. Several times this manner of fighting confused Popp, and he swung around recklessly, making the contest sloppy rather than scientific.

“Popp had a decided lead all the way, and seemed content to win on superior work to the end of the specified number of rounds, rather than end it before the 20th was called. McFadden’s defence was all for his head, leaving the body an easy mark throughout, but Popp did not try for the body at all, though the spectators were all the time expecting him to change his tactics and follow Mrs. Fitzsimmons’ advice to her husband in the Carson City battle.”

“Both men were up and strong when time was called, and they shook hands. Popp hadn’t a mark, while the New Yorker’s face was bruised and his nose enlarged to twice its natural size.

“’Popp wins,’ said the referee, and great cheers went up for the victor.”

Young Griffo vs. Johnny T Griffin

2008-02-22T03:16:29Z

El Intocable: Replaced text with newspaper report and proper quote

<fight>427595</fight>

* '''Venue:''' Casino, Boston, MA
* '''Attendance:''' 3,000
* '''Referee:''' Bill Daly

''Associated Press, April 24, 1894:''

“The men sprang nimbly into the ring at the call of time. Both men shaped up well, Griffo looking the full ten pounds that he weighed over the red haired boy. He was the first to land a light left on Griffin’s cheek. It was give and take for the next minute, but toward the end Griffo warmed up a bit and sent right and left into Griffin’s stomach. The latter was taken by surprise and was anxious to get a cross with the right. Griffo was hot after him in an exchange of blows. He landed his left with good effect on Griffin’s eye. A cheer went up, but this was soon subdued, for Griffin placed two well-timed right-hand blows on the Australian’s body. Then Griffo took a turn. Biff, bang, on the Boston boy’s head, and the old-timers hugged themselves, for never had a more clever two-handed fighter been in Boston. It looked now like 10 to 1 on the Australian, despite the fact that they had been fighting but three minutes. The call of time was a godsend to Griffin.

“On the advice of his seconds [Jack Magee, Bill Murphy and Jack Williams] Griffin started in to mix things, but it would not work. Try as he could Griffin could not escape the body-blows that were being sent in right and left-handed on his body in rapid succession, and it seemed but a question of time when the Australian would be declared winner. He was not in as good shape as Griffin, but he had the strength and was equally as clever.

“Griffin worked his left with good effect, but he lacked the steam, and after each blow the black-haired boy would smile, while already Griffin’s left eye was beginning to close. It was give and take, up and down, all over the ring. The Australian did most of the leading.

“From the third to the last round honors were about even.

“The eighth and final round showed to the spectators how well the foreigner could fight when urged. No sooner had the men shaken hands than he put his left on Griffin’s nose, and caused the blood to flow freely. Twice again did he land there, while his right was also put in on Griffin’s jaw. The latter was cutting the air and trying to avoid the blows which were landing on him at Griffo’s will. Time was finally called, and, according to the agreement of the men, which was that if both were on their feet at the finish, it would be a draw, Referee Daly called it so. Betting men in Boston and the visitors from Chicago and New York, numbering quite a lot, went away satisfied that Griffo is the best man of his inches seen hereabouts. For sand and gameness, he fairly outclassed his opponent.”

''Nat Fleischer, “Young Griffo: The Will o’ the Wisp of the Roped Square,” 1928:''

“The story is told of the heaps of enjoyment Griffo gave the spectators and the annoyance caused his opponent, Johnny Griffin, in an eight-round contest in Boston. Australian Billy Murphy, a countryman of Griffo, happened to be Griffin’s chief second and Murphy and Griffo were bitter enemies.

“When the gong sounded, Murphy tried to get Griffo’s ’goat’ by annoying remarks. Griffo paid no attention to this for a time, but when things began to feel a little hot, the fun began. Before the first round was half over, Griffo dazed Griffin with a series of rights and lefts, ducked all returns and kept peppering Griffin until he had the Braintree boy backing into his own corner. Griffo had done this purposely in order to get close to Australian Billy Murphy, and while standing on one spot and shooting dazzling jabs to all parts of Griffin’s anatomy, Griffo kept on looking down on Murphy and cut loose with the following:

“’ ’Ello, Billy. Bloime me if it isn’t you. You an’ me is matched for a go next week, Billy, and I’ll repeat this on you.’ With that he shot a right to the face and drew the claret from Griffin’s nose.

“‘See this ‘ere josser bleed, Billy? Bloime me, that’s nothin’ to wot you’re goin’ git from me next week, Billy. Shure, h’i ‘ate to do it, Billy, old chap, but I just wants to show you wot to expect.’ And with that, Griffo sent across a right hand to the jaw that shook Griffin.

“Not letting up in his repartee, Griffo looked down on Murphy after the last blow and continued:

“‘Now, Billy, ‘an ‘ows that for a right ‘ander on ‘is bloomin jawr. See ‘is bally ‘ead rock, Billy? Ain’t it a boomer?’

“Griffo backed away after that and as he did, out came one of Griffin’s teeth and Murphy, white with rage, stood in his corner speechless. Murphy was beaten to a frazzle and so was his boy who was a target for all kinds of punches. Griffo never would have hurt him so badly had he not desired to even matters with his deadly enemy, Australian Billy Murphy.”

[[Category:1894 Bouts|Griffo vs. Griffin]]

Young Griffo vs. George Dixon (2nd meeting)

2008-02-21T22:50:24Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>17682</fight> * '''Venue:''' Seaside Athletic Club, Coney Island, New York * '''Attendance:''' 6,000 * '''Referee:''' Tim Hurst Several newspapers published detailed round-by-rou...

<fight>17682</fight>

* '''Venue:''' Seaside Athletic Club, Coney Island, New York
* '''Attendance:''' 6,000
* '''Referee:''' Tim Hurst

Several newspapers published detailed round-by-round reports on January 20, 1895, including the Brooklyn Eagle.

''Washington Post, January 20, 1895:''

“Dixon weighed 126 and Griffo claimed to weigh 129 pounds, but he looked more as if it was 139 pounds.”

''Associated Press, January 20, 1895:''

“The crowd yelled ‘Griffo! Griffo!’ but [Fred] Burns announced that the referee decided the fight was a draw. The announcement was received with cheers, and there was no demonstration of disapproval. Throughout the fight Dixon did most of the leading, but Griffo’s clever dodging and hard punching evened matters up.”

Young Griffo vs. George Dixon (1st meeting)

2008-02-21T22:02:24Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>17681</fight> * '''Venue:''' Casino, Boston, Massachusetts * '''Attendance:''' 5,000 * '''Referee:''' Johnny Eckhardt ''Associated Press, June 30, 1894:'' “Five thousand spect...

<fight>17681</fight>

* '''Venue:''' Casino, Boston, Massachusetts
* '''Attendance:''' 5,000
* '''Referee:''' Johnny Eckhardt

''Associated Press, June 30, 1894:''

“Five thousand spectators witnessed one of the prettiest fights ever held in this city at the Casino tonight between Dixon and Griffo. Griffo seemed over-fat, and his heavy form created the impression that Dixon would have a hard tussle to win, but here is where the colored man again proved his gameness and adroit tactics. He was cuffed and slapped and cut about the face by his heavier opponent, but on more than once occasion during the twenty rounds it looked as though his left hand would finish the Australian.

“Griffo is a great fighter, and no mistake, but the impression gained from the battle tonight was that, at anywhere near even weights, the colored boy would win. Griffo tipped the beam at 135 and Dixon at 123 pounds.”

''Washington Post, June 30, 1894:''

“Dixon did nearly all of the leading throughout the contest, but was pluckily met by Griffo, whose counters, while oftentimes lacking force, frequently bore fruit. His defensive work was of the highest quality, and it is greatly to his credit that he was able to stand the fast and furious blows of Dixon for twenty rounds.”

“At the start both men sparred cautiously for an opening. Dixon led twice, but Griffo parried with ease and finally landed a left. Griffo’s defense was marvelous and caught the crowd instantly.

“Honors were even for thirteen rounds, and then came the fourteenth, which was one of the most exciting of the bout and was marked by several mix-ups, in which Griffo plainly had the best of it. In the give and take battle which closed the round Dixon was plainly dazed and sparring wildly. Both men came up smiling in the fifteenth round, but Griffo failed to follow up his success of the previous round and time was taken up largely in sparring for wind.

“The feature of the sixteenth round was two upper cuts that landed simultaneously, both men bending forward under the force of the blows.

“The four remaining rounds gave no real advantage to either man, Dixon forcing the battle to the very end and Griffo maintaining his admirable defense.

“Neither man had any decided advantage at the finish, and Referee Eckhardt declared the contest a draw, a decision which gave general satisfaction, though a majority of the crowd felt that Dixon had shown himself the better man.”

Young Griffo vs. Torpedo Billy Murphy (3rd meeting)

2008-02-21T21:12:26Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>388399</fight> ''Associated Press, September 10, 1891:'' “San Francisco, Sept. 5.—The Mariposa brings the following advices from Australia and the South Sea:” “The fight...

<fight>388399</fight>

''Associated Press, September 10, 1891:''

“San Francisco, Sept. 5.—The Mariposa brings the following advices from Australia and the South Sea:”

“The fight between Alfred Griffiths, better known as ‘Griffo,’ and Billy Murphy, which took place July 22, at the Amateur Gymnastic Club in Sydney, for the feather-weight championship of the world and a purse of 150 pounds, was won by Griffo on a foul in the twenty-second round after an even and exciting battle. Both men had trained carefully. Griffo was seven pounds the heavier. Murphy started to rush matters, but Griffo got in several times heavily on Murphy’s mouth, and in the sixth round the latter was bleeding at the nose.

“From this to the final round it appeared to be either man’s fight, Murphy making desperate but futile attempts to swing his right in a way that would have finished the contest had it landed.

“In the last round Murphy drove Griffo all around the ring until the latter turned and got in a punch over the heart that dazed Murphy and he seized Griffo and began hammering with his right. The latter either dropped or was pushed down. Murphy continued hammering him, and amid great excitement the referee awarded the contest to Griffo.

“Sullivan [John L.] was present in the club and was received with much applause.”

Young Griffo vs. George Powell (1st meeting)

2008-02-21T20:54:28Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427526</fight> ''Brooklyn Eagle, April 18, 1891:'' “Australian files received by the steamer Monowai give long accounts of the featherweight fight between Griffo and Powell, in...

<fight>427526</fight>

''Brooklyn Eagle, April 18, 1891:''

“Australian files received by the steamer Monowai give long accounts of the featherweight fight between Griffo and Powell, in Sydney, on March 12. The meeting created great interest, and when the men shook hands in the ring there was an immense assemblage present. The betting had been 6 to 4 on Griffo. Powell was not as strong as he might have been, through having trained down too fine. Griffo scaled 119 pounds and his opponent was half a pound lighter. Powell did more fighting than any other man has ever done with Griffo, but there was no vim in his blows, and in the nineteenth round he was pitiably weak and in such evident pain that the referee stopped the unequal struggle and awarded the fight to Griffo, who must have knocked his plucky opponent out in another round. Griffo will probably visit America soon.”

Torpedo Billy Murphy vs. Young Griffo (2nd meeting)

2008-02-21T19:32:25Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>108475</fight> ''Associated Press, September 28, 1890:'' “San Francisco, Sept. 27.—Advices from Sydney by the steamship Mariposa, which arrived today, give an account of the ...

<fight>108475</fight>

''Associated Press, September 28, 1890:''

“San Francisco, Sept. 27.—Advices from Sydney by the steamship Mariposa, which arrived today, give an account of the fight between Billy Murphy, the feather-weight champion, and young Griffo, which took place before the Sydney Amateur Gymnastic Club for a purse of 200 sovereigns.

“Murphy opened the fight with a rush, but Griffo dazed him in the second round, during some hot in-fighting in which he seemed to excel. Griffo was twice knocked down in the first three rounds by Murphy’s fierce swinging blows, but whenever they came to close quarters Griffo administered severe punishment, and at the end of the eighth round both men were decidedly weak and Murphy was looking anxious.

“In the eleventh round Griffo went in apparently to finish Murphy and used his right and left with such effect that he dazed the champion, but tired himself out before accomplishing his object. The twelfth, thirteenth and fourteenth rounds were marked by wild rushes on the part of Murphy and clever dodging and jabbing on the part of Griffo.

“In the fifteenth round both started to spar cautiously. Murphy succeeded in swinging his right on to Griffo’s jaw, but was either too far around or the blows lacked power. Griffo assumed the aggressive and by a well-directed blow on the jaw rendered Murphy groggy. Murphy for the second time tried a pivotal blow, but without effect, and at the end of the round retired to his chair in a limp condition.

“Before another round was called Murphy threw off his gloves, and, walking to the center of the stage, said he gave the fight to Griffo. When asked his reason he asserted that the gloves had been fixed. An examination, however, showed that the gloves were new and had not been tampered with.

“Murphy afterward challenged Griffo to fight with bare knuckles for £100.”

Young Griffo vs. Solly Smith

2008-02-21T19:10:58Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427591</fight> * '''Venue:''' Tivoli Theater * '''Referee:''' Harry Gilmore ''Chicago Tribune, January 4, 1894:'' “Young Griffo, concededly the champion featherweight pugilist...

<fight>427591</fight>

* '''Venue:''' Tivoli Theater
* '''Referee:''' Harry Gilmore

''Chicago Tribune, January 4, 1894:''

“Young Griffo, concededly the champion featherweight pugilist of Australia, last night met Solly Smith in a six-round ‘go’ at the Tivoli Theater and came off with flying colors, although a draw was declared in keeping with the statement of the manager of the affair, who announced: ‘If both men are ‘there’ at the end of six rounds it will be called a draw.’

“The men faced each other at 11:30 p.m. Harry Gilmore acted as referee. The boxers were cheered by an immense crowd that packed the small variety theater to the doors. Griffo appeared easily by ten pounds the larger man. Indeed, with his 40-inch chest and sturdy neck, he seemed nearly as big as either Jack McAuliffe or Billy Myer when in fighting fix. Neither man had trained for the fight.

“The rounds were of two minutes’ duration. Losing no time the men got to work. Griffo at once sent in his left bang on the nose, and escaping the counter repeated the dose. Forcing matters he kept right on top of his man. Smith swung his right but failed to land, and Griffo, stopping left hand swings, came out of the round untouched.

“The crowd was apparently with Griffo in this matter, reversing the usual order of encouraging the smaller and weaker man. In the second round Smith did better, but the affair becoming tame Griffo set to work again at the call of ‘go on’ from his admirers, and the third and fourth rounds were lively. Solly could not land his right, and his opponent hit him whenever he pleased with his left hand. The gloves were not larger than four and a half ounces, but Griffo’s hitting power did not seem to denote much steam, and, therefore, his numerous blows did little perceptible damage. Once, in escaping a right-hander, Griffo turned and got home with the left twice without a return.”

“The finishing round was a hot one. An Australian present said: ‘Griffo has lost 25 per cent of his speed.’ But nevertheless in the wind-up he hit his man repeatedly. Smith stopped too great familiarity by landing his right—too high on the head, however, to do more than stop his man for the instant.

“Most persons supposed the affair would be a ‘barney,’ but quite unexpectedly the little man put up an enjoyable scrap, and evidently meant business from start to finish. The general opinion now is that Griffo is all that he claims to be, and that his chances to whip Dixon or any man of his class are of the best.”

Joe Gans vs. Young Griffo (3rd meeting)

2008-02-21T17:45:18Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>18135</fight> ''Associated Press, July 11, 1900:'' “New York, July 10.—At the Seaside Athletic Club to-night Joe Gans, of Baltimore, was awarded the decision over Albert Grif...

<fight>18135</fight>

''Associated Press, July 11, 1900:''

“New York, July 10.—At the Seaside Athletic Club to-night Joe Gans, of Baltimore, was awarded the decision over Albert Griffiths, better known as ‘Young Griffo,’ of Australia. The referee stopped the bout after the men had fought one minute and thirty-eight seconds of the eighth round, and when Griffo was so far gone that another punch from Gans would have put him out.

“For a time Griffo showed some of his old-time form, blocking and punching in clever style, but his dissipation has told on him, and although he had trained faithfully for the fight, he had not the stamina to stand the negro’s blows. Gans played a waiting game, and when Griffo had fought himself out, found no difficulty in putting him in such condition that the referee’s action was pleasing to the crowd. There was little betting, and Gans was a 2 to 1 favorite.”

“Gans was the first to lead, with his left for the head, but Griffo blocked and followed with his left to the face. Twice Griffo ran into a clinch and was cautioned for holding. Three times again he jabbed his left to the negro’s face and swung a left to the head. Gans was cool and waited for him, and finally crossed his right to the ear and twice jolted it to the body. Just before the bell rang Gans upper cut his right to the chin and dropped Griffo to the floor, but the Australian was right up and fighting at the gong.

“In the second round Griffo showed much of his old science. A left hook almost closed his eye. Gans showed some superior blocking himself in the third, and Griffo’s attempts for the head did not land as frequently as before. Griffo finally cornered the colored lad and drove three hard lefts to the body and reached the head with both hands. Gans finally escaped and hooked left and right to the head.

“Gans opened the fourth with a right to head, but Griffo stepped aside on a hook, and jolted his right to the body. He slipped to the floor, and Gans helped him to his feet, and then ensued some fast fighting on the part of both men. Gans tried to reach the head, but was blocked repeatedly, and took some good body blows in return, but the pace seemed to be telling.

“Both steadied up a bit in the fifth, but toward the end of the round both landed some rattling blows on the body, and Gans was clinching. Griffo continued to do the offensive. Gans was waiting for a chance. Twice he thought he saw it, but was blocked each time in his attempt, and little was done beside counter punches by both men on the body.

“In the seventh round Gans stepped in and with a right hand uppercut lifted Griffo’s head and then sent over left and right, dropping him to the floor. The referee began to count, but Griffo waved him away and jumped to his feet to take another cluster of blows that shook him up badly.

“Gans’ right hand punches to the heart showed their effect in the eighth, and Griffo was forced about the ring with left jabs to the mouth that brought the blood in a stream. Gans saw he was gone and measured his man admirably and swung his right to the jaw. Griffo staggered across the ring, and Gans followed and swung his right again to the mark. It needed only another punch to knock him out, but before Gans could deliver it the referee stepped between them and sent them to their corners, stopping the fight and awarding Gans the decision.”

Young Griffo vs. Jack Lewis (2nd meeting)

2008-02-21T16:58:23Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427786</fight> * '''Venue:''' Star Theater * '''Referee:''' Paddy Carroll ''Chicago Tribune, May 12, 1900:'' “’Jack’ Lewis and ‘Young Griffo’ fought a six-round draw l...

<fight>427786</fight>

* '''Venue:''' Star Theater
* '''Referee:''' Paddy Carroll

''Chicago Tribune, May 12, 1900:''

“’Jack’ Lewis and ‘Young Griffo’ fought a six-round draw last night in the windup at the Star Theater. They met at 138 pounds. The Australian made a good showing at the start, but it was soon apparent he was not in condition to go even six rounds at a fast pace. Lewis played for his opponent’s kidneys, and in the second round brought blood from his nose. Griffo, as usual, was tricky, and as in his two last fights here, displayed a tendency to heel. The last rounds of the fight were of a fairly even character, and Referee Paddy Carroll announced a draw.”

Young Griffo vs. Charley Young Kenney

2008-02-21T16:44:59Z

El Intocable: Added Siler's quote

<fight>427799</fight>

''Chicago Tribune, January 10, 1900:''

“While the windup was productive of a large amount of enthusiasm, it did not equal that displayed in the ‘Young’ Griffo-‘Young’ Kenny [original article’s spelling] contest, which the former won after six rounds of fighting, which kept the crowd exercising its lungs almost from start to finish. The clever Australian is still a popular favorite, and his great work against the local lightweight demonstrated that he is by no means out of the running. His wonderful headwork brought shout after shout, while his blocking and general fast work caused the crowd no end of enjoyment. Kenny made a game fight, and perhaps in a longer route would be able to reverse the decision, but in the shorter distance he was clearly outpointed by the Antipodean phenomenon.”

''[[George Siler]], Chicago Tribune, January 14, 1900:''

“A remarkable feature of pugilism is the return to the ring, after almost a year in the Dunning lunatic asylum, of ‘Young Griffo,’ the clever Australian. ‘Grif,’ as he is usually called, made his first appearance against Jack Lewis at the C. A. A. a week ago yesterday, and, while not quite as speedy or as strong as of old, was good enough to put it all over his opponent.

“Last Tuesday night he faced ‘Young’ Kenny at Tattersall’s, and, although he won by a fair margin, he seemed to tire at the end. Kenny gave him a far tougher argument than did Lewis, but Griffo’s wonderful defensive tactics rather nonplused Kenny.”

Young Griffo vs. Charley Young Kenney

2008-02-21T16:36:09Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427799</fight> ''Chicago Tribune, January 10, 1900:'' “While the windup was productive of a large amount of enthusiasm, it did not equal that displayed in the ‘Young’ Griff...

Young Griffo vs. Jack Lewis (1st meeting)

2008-02-21T16:27:28Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427785</fight> * '''Venue:''' Chicago A.C. Griffo’s first fight after his release from the Dunning Insane Asylum. Griffo was committed to the mental institution on March 23, 18...

<fight>427785</fight>

* '''Venue:''' Chicago A.C.

Griffo’s first fight after his release from the Dunning Insane Asylum. Griffo was committed to the mental institution on March 23, 1899 after being declared insane by a jury of physicians. He was arrested on March 18th in a downtown saloon, while “boxing wildly with the air and screeching demonically.” According to the New York Times (March 19, 1899), “while confined in a cell at the station house, he made several attempts to kill himself by striking his head against the bars and stone walls. His cries could be heard a block away. At times Griffith imagines he is engaged in a pugilistic fight, and the flesh of his hands is lacerated because of attacks he makes on the walls.”

''Associated Press, January 7, 1900:''

“Chicago, Jan. 6.—‘Young Griffo’ made his reappearance in the ring to-night at the Chicago Athletic Club. His opponent was Jack Lewis, a local lightweight. The bout was for six rounds and Griffo was given the decision, having had the best of it all the way through.”

''Brooklyn Eagle, January 8, 1900:''

“Young Griffo showed on Saturday night that his incarceration in the insane asylum had in no way interfered with his fighting qualities. In a six round bout with Jack Lewis, a local fighter, he won, simply playing with the local man throughout.”

Young Griffo vs. Tommy White (2nd meeting)

2008-02-20T18:06:48Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427794</fight> * '''Venue:''' Twenty-second Ward A.C. Two fights with Tommy White “framed” Griffo’s career in the United States and took place 10 years apart in Chicago. ...

<fight>427794</fight>

* '''Venue:''' Twenty-second Ward A.C.

Two fights with Tommy White “framed” Griffo’s career in the United States and took place 10 years apart in Chicago.

''[[George Siler]], Chicago Tribune, February 11, 1904:''

“Young Griffo’s pugilistic career was punctured beyond repair at the Twenty-second Ward Athletic club’s show last night. He was slated to wind up the entertainment with Tommy White, and as his recent contests with Martin Judge and George Memsic demonstrated he was regaining his old time form an excellent and scientific contest was anticipated. Instead it ended before it had been in progress two minutes. They began with straight lefts, and after a few deliveries dropped into a clinch. A little fiddling followed when White let go left and right, the blow from the latter member landing full on Griffo’s jaw, sending him down for the count of five. This unexpected happening surprised the crowd, and when a moment later Grif walked to his corner as though he had given up the battle the crowd was dumbfounded. He resumed the fray after a short spell, but when Tommy cut loose at him again he turned tall, covered his face with his gloves, and practically quit. When asked what ailed him, he said he was ill, but the opinion of the crowd was he was in no condition to box. This will undoubtedly end Grif’s career as a fighter.

“White announced he would meet Abe Attell at 126 punds or any man in town at that weight. Tommy showed much of his old time skill and if anything appeared to hit harder. His right jolt which sent Griffo down was neatly planted and had much force behind it.”

''[[George Siler]], Chicago Tribune, February 14, 1904:''

“Unfortunately ‘Grif’ was not in the condition expected and instead of giving the spectators an exhibition of his skill he quit after less than two minutes’ work. He shaped up as of old, but was quickly toppled over with a clip on the chin.

“He backed away when he regained his feet, then walked to his corner, indicating he had enough. He took the center again, however, but after a few exchanges, in which he was the receiver general, he covered up, walked to the ropes, and stopped. Griffo is pugilistically dead in this town, as no club would dare give him another chance.”

Young Griffo vs. Tommy White (1st meeting)

2008-02-20T17:37:31Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427587</fight> * '''Referee:''' George Siler Two fights with Tommy White “framed” Griffo’s career in the United States and took place 10 years apart in Chicago. Accordi...

<fight>427587</fight>

* '''Referee:''' [[George Siler]]

Two fights with Tommy White “framed” Griffo’s career in the United States and took place 10 years apart in Chicago. According to Tommy White (as quoted in Chicago Tribune on December 8th, 1927, the day after Griffo’s death), they fought with 2-ounce gloves in 1893.

''Brooklyn Eagle, December 19, 1893:''

“Chicago, Ill., December 19—One of the fastest bouts ever seen in this city was the eight round glove contest at McGurn’s hand ball court between Alf Griffiths, known as Young Griffo, and Tommy White, the local featherweight, last night. The boxing was of the whirlwind order from first to last, and although the Australian tried all he knew to knock White out, he did not at any time get near it, and Tommy was there at the end of the eighth round. Griffo appeared to be in better shape than at any time before in this city, and certainly was lighter. White weighed 123 pounds and looked to be at least fifteen pounds less than Griffo.”

''Chicago Tribune, December 19, 1893:''

“Young Griffo was well tried out at McGurn’s court last night and demonstrated the fact that he is one of the greatest if not the greatest little man now before the public. He was in no condition, yet succeeded in besting and nearly stopping Tommy White.

“Griffo demonstrated that he can punch, which was thought to be the weak point of his work. He further demonstrated that he is vulnerable, and that a clever man can land often and hard on him. He seems willing to take a punch, to give one, and while clever both with hands, feet, and head, seems to lose sight of defensive work in his eagerness for fast offensive. There is but one faster fighter before the public—viz.: Jack McAuliffe. The latter is probably the fastest two-handed fighter in the world.

“Tommy White was Griffo’s opponent last night and by the usual gameness which has always characterized him stood to his work for the eight rounds of the contest and under the conditions secured a draw, it having been agreed that if both men were ‘there’ when the eighth round was ended the mill should be called a draw. White was there, a trifle messed up, but still there. Griffo himself did not escape. White, never a stiff puncher, landed heavily at times on the Australian, and with a rally in the third round brought him up straight and with more strength might have gotten him to ‘going.’

“If a decision had been made Griffo would have won. That was acknowledged by all and the referee, George Siler, so declared himself after the mill. The Australian secured first blood and the only knock-down of the fight, although it was a fluke, White tripping over some feet that had wandered into the ring under the ropes.

“While it is acknowledged that Griffo can punch, still he did not secure a fair knock-down, and White is none too strong in his legs either. This made some people skeptical. But he tire quickly as the natural result of lack of condition and was not a good man after the second round.

“After he had finished he went out and found that his share of the receipts had been attached for a debt. Griffo had worked fast and well—for somebody else.”

Young Griffo vs. Young Scotty

2008-02-20T16:33:35Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427585</fight> * '''Venue:''' Tattersall’s ''Chicago Tribune, November 14, 1893:'' “’Young’ Griffo made his first appearance before a Chicago audience in a set-to with ...

<fight>427585</fight>

* '''Venue:''' Tattersall’s

''Chicago Tribune, November 14, 1893:''

“’Young’ Griffo made his first appearance before a Chicago audience in a set-to with ‘Young’ Scotty, a Chicago negro featherweight. Chicagoans were rather prepared for more than they found in Griffo.

“He is clever beyond dispute, but he cannot punch as people had been led to believe. He fights fast and keeps his man going all the time. He had the best of the set-to and could have stopped his adversary in the last round. Griffo will have plenty of work whipping the good featherweights in America.”

Solly Smith vs. Jimmy Murphy

2008-02-20T16:28:50Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>170805</fight> * '''Venue:''' Tattersall’s ''Chicago Tribune, November 14, 1893:'' “Solly Smith and Jimmy Murphy of Los Angeles made an interesting set-to. Murphy went at Sm...

<fight>170805</fight>

* '''Venue:''' Tattersall’s

''Chicago Tribune, November 14, 1893:''

“Solly Smith and Jimmy Murphy of Los Angeles made an interesting set-to. Murphy went at Smith savagely in the first round, but received a left hand jab in the mouth which took the majority of the fight out of him. He came back for the second round a bit worse for wear, received an awful left-hand punch in the stomach and then a right-hand punch on the jaw. He fell near the ropes, felt that he had enough of it, and feigned a knockout. It was just as well, for he would have been knocked out.”

Young Griffo vs. Young Pluto (7th meeting)

2008-02-20T05:08:35Z

El Intocable: Replaced incorrect quote

<fight>427818</fight>

''Nat Fleischer, “Young Griffo: The Will -O’-The -Wisp of the Roped Square,” 1928:''

It was in the first two years of his boxing career that Griffo fought what he termed were some of his hardest battles, the greatest being with a husky negro, Young Pluto, otherwise known as Joe Brown. This colored lad from Melbourne gave Griffo considerable trouble. They met five times and the results were draws of eight, six, twenty-three, thirteen and seventy rounds, respectively.

There was much controversy over these fights, especially the seventy-round affair, which the majority of Australian critics thought Griffo easily won, but which it was decided would end in a draw if the contestants were on their feet at the end of the bout. According to a letter recently written by Joe Brown to the Sydney Referee, he insists that the bout went seventy-five rounds and that he had the better of the milling, but newspaper clippings of the time, in possession of the writer, show otherwise. In referring to these early bouts in Griffo’s career, Young Pluto, taking issue with a story appearing in the Sydney Referee, answers Solar Plexus, the writer, as follows:

"Then came our sixth contest, that went 75 rounds to a draw. We fought with 10-ounce gloves at the Melbourne Athletic Club. In that contest I knocked him down 17 times.

"His seconds were Jack Fuller and Wingie Cohen, whilst Peter Newton and Alf Lambert attended to my wants. The most peculiar thing about Griffo, in my opinion, was that he always wanted to fight a draw, or wanted to turn it up. He never wanted to go on. He always said I was too tough for him – too hard to beat.

"As regards your reference to four-round fights, I do not remember any. The shortest we ever had was eight. I boxed Griffo every night for a week, four exhibition rounds at the Gaiety Theatre, every one of which was a fight. The first three nights he fought well, but in the next two I consider I had him beaten, and on the sixth night I knocked him right off the stage and into the orchestra."

On receipt of Mr. Brown’s (Pluto’s) letter, Solar Plexus interviewed Jack Fuller, Griffo’s second, and sought Fuller’s opinion of what happened on the memorable occasion. This is what Solar Plexus wrote after his interview with Fuller:

"The erstwhile ’dandy’ said Pluto had no chance of beating Griffo. After the fight Griffo’s hair was not even ruffled, and Pluto’s head you could not have put into a large-sized bucket.

"At the termination of the forty-seventh round, it was announced that if the fight was not finished at the end of the sixtieth round, the verdict would go to the man who was then ahead on points.

"From the third round on, Pluto was as much use to Griffo as would have been a punching-ball, yet the judges showed their lack of sportsmanship by stating that they could not separate them. At the termination of the sixty-eighth round it was announced that if they were both on their feet at the end of two more rounds it would be a draw.

"That, however, had to be mutually agreed upon, and Fuller, recognizing that he had no chance of getting a verdict, no matter what happened, consented. Pluto raised no objection. Pluto says they fought seventy-five rounds, but the Melbourne correspondent of the Referee said only seventy.

"The purse they fought for was $250, and as travelling expenses for two from Sydney and back was but $25, after paying their way, they had to borrow their return fare from the noted comedian, the late Johnny Sheridan. Is it any wonder that Griffo’s fights were draws? Griffo certainly 1ooked for nothing but draws in America, but even then, as in his fight with Pluto, he outboxed his opponents."

Young Griffo vs. Kid Lavigne

2008-02-20T00:03:15Z

El Intocable: Added Lavigne quote

<fight>170362</fight>

* '''Referee:''' [[George Siler]]
* '''Attendance:''' 3,000

''Chicago Tribune, February 11, 1894:''

"'Young' Griffo had a close call from defeat at the Lake Front armory last night in his eight round go with George Lavigne."

"Lavigne's showing was a revelation even to his friends, and while George Siler, the referee, properly decided the affair a draw, as there was not enough advantage on either side to merit a decision if one had been given, Lavigne must have won. Griffo's admirers may take exceptions to this statement, but if they closely sum up the result of the fight they can hardly do so with justice."

"In the first two rounds he [Griffo] kept Lavigne in his own corner, but in the sharp rallies that followed in rapid succession the Michigan lad secured almost an even break. When Griffo closed with him he would stand and punch and landed quite as often as the Australian. The third round was just as fast and the fourth found both men tired. That caused no surprise, as the work had been remarkably fast. If Griffo had a chance to win it was in this round. Lavigne was dead tired, but Griffo was no better, and the round was uneventful. From that time on Lavigne was much the stronger of the two. Griffo began to break ground, and Lavigne, following him, fought wildly at times, his left hand particularly going high over the alien's head, but he landed at times, and several stiff punches over the heart did the tiring Australian no good.

"Last night's set-to was not conclusive of course, as Lavigne was trained to the hour, while Griffo was big and fat, but on last night's showing Griffo would have his hands full winning from Lavigne in a finish fight."

''George (Kid) Lavigne, as told to E. P. Rucker (Los Angeles Times, December 18, 1927):''

“In February, 1894, came my first chance to get into a ring with Young Griffo. We were matched for eight rounds at Chicago. George Siler was the referee.

“Griffo’s science was a revelation. I had never seen such speed with hands, feet and head.

“For the first two rounds I thought all of Griffo’s seconds were in the ring helping him.

“’For the love of Mike,’ I said to my brother Billy between rounds, ‘how many hands has this fellow got?’

“In the fourth I decided to cut loose biff-bang with everything I had, shooting in all directions, hoping some haymaker might connect.
“A wild wallop caught Griffo in the kitchen. Ha had drunk a lot of beer just before entering the ring. That wallop made him sick. I started chasing him around the ring. But as sick as he was, do you think I could catch him?

“And just as soon as I eased off a bit to blow, there he was right back at me with his left stuck in my face.

“That bout was called a draw.”

[[Category:1894 Bouts|Griffo vs. Lavigne]]

Joe Gans vs. Young Griffo (2nd meeting)

2008-02-19T21:23:38Z

El Intocable: Added Gans quote

<fight>18101</fight>

''Associated Press, September 22, 1897:''

“’Young Griffo’ of Australia and Joe Gans, colored, from Baltimore, met at the Olympic Club at Athens tonight in a fifteen-round fight. Until the seventh round the bout was tame, Griffo only fought when pushed by Gans. The seventh was a hot one, during which both Griffo and Gans landed viciously at each other.

“Matters became uninteresting again until the twelfth round. This was also full of ginger, and there was one mix-up after another. The next three rounds were tame, and when time was called at the finish both men were standing on their feet.”

''Joe Gans, as quoted by the Washington Post on July 9, 1899:''

“I’ll never forget my experience in the ring with that Kid Griffo. We met in the ring at the Olympic Club at Athens, Pa., and it was agreed that we were to divide the purse, win or lose. I trained for three weeks for the bout, and when I got a flash at Griffo in his corner I noticed that a fold of fat wobbled over his belt. He was in fit condition for a sanitarium instead of a prize ring, and I told Herford [Al Herford, Joe Gans' manager] that I would make short work of the Australian phenom, as they called him. We were to go fifteen rounds, and I thought I could do Griff in about three punches at the wind. I had an idea that he would keep away from me, but that’s where he fooled me. You would naturally think that a man in his condition would steer away from a punch, but he crowded me from the first tap of the gong.

“He clearly outboxed me, but every time he tapped me I smiled at him. ‘See here, old chap,’ he said, ‘I’m out for a draw, and don’t get awfully rude with me because I ‘av a bloomink pain in me stomach and if you slam me once in the body it will be all off. So don’t get rude, and be a gentleman.’ I tried my prettiest to bore a stomach punch into him, but I only caught him on the glove at every trial, and then I switched my tactics and tried for his jaw, but he was inside of me at every punch, and when I led he stepped inside and showered a rain of taps with both hands. He had me tired once, I will admit, and it looked to me as if every one in the crowd was throwing boxing gloves at me. It’s a pity that a boxer of his talent never took care of himself, as he was the greatest defensive boxer that ever lived, and the most peculiar feature of his defense was that he was up and at the opponent all the time, fighting close on the inside of the guard. They talk about Fitzsimmons as a fighting machine, but as a mechanical boxer Fitz never classed with Griffo.”

Young Griffo vs. Charles (Bull) McCarthy (3rd meeting)

2008-02-18T20:31:47Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427784</fight> ''Associated Press, April 28, 1898:'' “In the last ten seconds of the twentieth round Griffo knocked out Bull McCarty [original article’s spelling] of Philadel...

<fight>427784</fight>

''Associated Press, April 28, 1898:''

“In the last ten seconds of the twentieth round Griffo knocked out Bull McCarty [original article’s spelling] of Philadelphia tonight before the Sacramento Athletic Club. It was a stubborn fight from start to finish.

“McCarty has not Griffo’s physique by any means, but he is a tenacious, bulldog fighter, and up to the last minute it looked as if Griffo could not whip him, badly punished as he was. McCarty did most of the leading, while Griffo contented himself with a stiff counter in the face every time his adversary came at him.

“Once in a while Griffo would rush and land a blow or two, but McCarty would wriggle out of the mix up and come back at him. At times McCarty was distressed, while Griffo, who was in fine condition, was fresh throughout the fight. There was striking in the clinches, which operated in Griffo’s favor. The latter was quick as a cat with both hands and feet, and his ring generalship and cleverness enabled him to avoid punishment.”

''Associated Press, April 29, 1898:''

“Sacramento, April 28.—Bull McCarty, who was defeated by Griffo here last night, died this evening. He did not regain consciousness after he was knocked out in the twentieth round. Those who saw the fight cannot understand how McCarty was fatally injured.

“There was not a knock-down during the fight until in the last round, when McCarty, who was fagged out from his exertions in pressing the fight, went down on his hands and knees from one of Griffo’s light blows on the ear.

“He was soon up, but too weak to do much, when Griffo gave him another blow that put him out. Griffo himself was tired, and his blows seemed to lack steam. McCarty was a narrow-chested, puny-looking youth, and though he appeared fresh after the nineteenth round, it must have been that he had a weak constitution.”

Young Griffo vs. Frank McConnell

2008-02-18T20:00:43Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427783</fight> * '''Attendance:''' 3,000 ''Associated Press, February 4, 1898:'' “Frank McConnell of San Francisco, a practically unknown man in the boxing world, and who rece...

<fight>427783</fight>

* '''Attendance:''' 3,000

''Associated Press, February 4, 1898:''

“Frank McConnell of San Francisco, a practically unknown man in the boxing world, and who recently graduated from the amateur ranks, outpointed and outfought ‘Young Griffo,’ the celebrated Australian boxer, before the Olympic Club tonight. The contest was a fifteen-round affair, and the big gymnasium was packed with 3,000 spectators.”

“McConnell is a wonderful specimen of muscular development, weighing about 143 pounds. He is of the rangy build, with a hard punch with either hand and a splendid guard.”

Young Griffo vs. Billy Lewis

2008-02-18T19:45:09Z

El Intocable:

<fight>427782</fight>

* '''Referee:''' Tom Sharkey

''Chicago Tribune, January 13, 1898:''

“The fifteen-round glove contest between Young Griffo and Frank McConnell did not take place. Owing to the smallness of the house McConnell refused to enter the ring, saying there was not enough money in sight.

“After a protracted wrangle Billy Lewis was chosen as a substitute for McConnell. Tom Sharkey was accepted as referee. Rough and tumble fighting was the order. Sharkey was kept busy preventing the men from clinching. As the bell sounded both men were on the floor in a clinch. In the second round Griffo landed hard several times on Lewis’ jaw and neck and wind with his left. Lewis was strong, but inclined to fight foul. At the opening of the third round Griffo landed his left three times on the jaw in quick succession. Lewis countered a wicked uppercut with his right. In trying to part them Sharkey got a smash on the ear from Lewis, who promptly apologized. Griffo landed several times in the fourth round, Lewis apparently holding his jaw out to be hit. In the last round Lewis uppercut in a clinch and again hit Sharkey, this time below the belt. Lewis showed a bruised face and red blotches on his chest. Griffo was red but was not punished. At the sound of the gong Sharkey gave the fight to Griffo. Lewis weighed 160 pounds, and was not trained for the contest.”

Young Griffo vs. Billy Lewis

2008-02-18T19:43:52Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427782</fight> * '''Referee:''' Tom Sharkey ''Chicago Tribune, January 13, 1897:'' “The fifteen-round glove contest between Young Griffo and Frank McConnell did not take place...

<fight>427782</fight>

* '''Referee:''' Tom Sharkey

''Chicago Tribune, January 13, 1897:''

“The fifteen-round glove contest between Young Griffo and Frank McConnell did not take place. Owing to the smallness of the house McConnell refused to enter the ring, saying there was not enough money in sight.

“After a protracted wrangle Billy Lewis was chosen as a substitute for McConnell. Tom Sharkey was accepted as referee. Rough and tumble fighting was the order. Sharkey was kept busy preventing the men from clinching. As the bell sounded both men were on the floor in a clinch. In the second round Griffo landed hard several times on Lewis’ jaw and neck and wind with his left. Lewis was strong, but inclined to fight foul. At the opening of the third round Griffo landed his left three times on the jaw in quick succession. Lewis countered a wicked uppercut with his right. In trying to part them Sharkey got a smash on the ear from Lewis, who promptly apologized. Griffo landed several times in the fourth round, Lewis apparently holding his jaw out to be hit. In the last round Lewis uppercut in a clinch and again hit Sharkey, this time below the belt. Lewis showed a bruised face and red blotches on his chest. Griffo was red but was not punished. At the sound of the gong Sharkey gave the fight to Griffo. Lewis weighed 160 pounds, and was not trained for the contest.”

Young Griffo vs. Billy Starr

2008-02-18T19:20:35Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427779</fight> ''Associated Press, December 28, 1897:'' “Young Griffo, the prizefighter, and Billy Starr, who has fought a few battles, met in the loft of a stable on Golden Ga...

<fight>427779</fight>

''Associated Press, December 28, 1897:''

“Young Griffo, the prizefighter, and Billy Starr, who has fought a few battles, met in the loft of a stable on Golden Gate avenue last night and Young Mitchell stopped the fight in time to prevent Starr being knocked out.

“Afterward Starr challenged Peter Jackson to fight. The colored man laughed at him. Starr is still ignorant of the fact that he was fighting ‘Young Griffo.’ He had told Mitchell that he could whip any man in town, and for that reason Griffo was put up against him.”

Young Griffo vs. Frank Garrard

2008-02-18T18:55:10Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427778</fight> * '''Referee:''' George Siler * '''Venue:''' Tattersall’s * '''Attendance:''' 3,500 According to newspaper reports, Griffo, “the erratic one,” actually t...

<fight>427778</fight>

* '''Referee:''' [[George Siler]]
* '''Venue:''' Tattersall’s
* '''Attendance:''' 3,500

According to newspaper reports, Griffo, “the erratic one,” actually trained for this bout at Sea Isle City, NJ.

''Chicago Tribune, October 24, 1897:''

“It proved more interesting than many anticipated. Garrard, who was fully six inches the taller, studied his little opponent for awhile and then decided that rushing would be the best tactics, and he drove the Australian about the ring in a way that quite surprised those who expected the little wonder to have an easy time of it. After a savage lunge in the third round Griffo smiled rather weakly and said: ‘You’re so tall I can’t reach you.’ At which Garrard kept on with his rushing tactics, Griffo being compelled to dodge frequently and having to content himself in aggressive work by blows on Garrard’s body. He landed several stiff ones, however, on Garrard’s neck and many slashing ones on the body. The showing of the Chicago man was quite favorable, and the decision of a draw by Referee Siler appeared satisfactory.”

Young Griffo vs. Kid Lavigne

2008-02-18T18:49:42Z

El Intocable:

Joe Gans vs. Young Griffo (2nd meeting)

2008-02-18T18:32:38Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>18101</fight> ''Associated Press, September 22, 1897:'' “’Young Griffo’ of Australia and Joe Gans, colored, from Baltimore, met at the Olympic Club at Athens tonight in a f...

Young Griffo vs. Charles McKeever

2008-02-18T18:23:24Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427776</fight> * '''Attendance:''' 2,000 ''Washington Post, September 8, 1897:'' “’Young’ Griffo, of Australia, and Charley McKeever, of this city, met at the Olympic Club...

<fight>427776</fight>

* '''Attendance:''' 2,000

''Washington Post, September 8, 1897:''

“’Young’ Griffo, of Australia, and Charley McKeever, of this city, met at the Olympic Club, at Athens, Pa., to-night in a fifteen-round contest, which was decided a draw, although a majority of the 2,000 spectators believed McKeever had a shade the better of the contest. For the first seven rounds Griffo put up an excellent fight, and showed his old-time form. McKeever was slow throughout these rounds, but in the eighth he began to loosen up, and in the last five rounds laid all over the antipodean. Especially in the fourteenth did the local man show up well. He hit Griffo where and when he pleased, and in the final round Griffo seemed very tired and kept away from McKeever.”

Young Griffo vs. Owen Ziegler

2008-02-18T18:07:41Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427774</fight> ''Chicago Tribune, July 13, 1897:'' “Young Griffo, the Australian boxing wonder, tonight surprised his admirers by outpointing the Philadelphia favorite, Owen Ze...

<fight>427774</fight>

''Chicago Tribune, July 13, 1897:''

“Young Griffo, the Australian boxing wonder, tonight surprised his admirers by outpointing the Philadelphia favorite, Owen Zeigler [original article’s spelling] in a six-round contest at the arena. Griffo not only bested Zeigler with comparative ease, but he showed than when necessary he could hit hard.

“Zeigler looked in good condition, while it was the reverse with the eccentric Australian. Griffo was as fat as a prize porker. The men had a falling out a few days ago at a well known club, and it was with difficulty that friends prevented them from having it out then and there.

“Zeigler started the fun by rushing at the little foreigner, but the latter got out of harm’s way and jabbed Owen in the face. Zeigler kept up the rushing and Griffo jabbed merrily without getting any blows in return. All through the contest Griffo seemed to land when and where he pleased, much to the annoyance of Zeigler, who seemed worried at his repeated failures to land a telling blow on his antagonist.

“In the fifth round they mixed it up in lively fashion, with Zeigler trying hard to get in a knock-out blow. But Griffo had a tantalizing way of getting his head out of harm’s reach and sending in hard left hand punches on the Philadelphian’s face. Twice in the fifth round he landed hard on Owen’s mouth and the blows resounded through the arena. The sixth was a hot round, in which Griffo was still the master of the situation. They were clinched and plugging away when the gong sounded.”

Young Griffo vs. Tommy Ryan

2008-02-13T20:11:03Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427772</fight> * '''Attendance:''' 500 Griffo had just been released from jail; he was sentenced to a year's imprisonment on August 13, 1896 for assaulting a 12-year-old boy. '...

<fight>427772</fight>

* '''Attendance:''' 500

Griffo had just been released from jail; he was sentenced to a year's imprisonment on August 13, 1896 for assaulting a 12-year-old boy.

''Washington Post, June 22, 1897:''

"Five hundred persons went to see Young Griffo, of Australia, and Tommy Ryan, of Philadelphia, box ten rounds at catch-weights before the Greenpoint Athletic Club, Brooklyn, to-night. Griffo, who has spent the last eleven months in prison, made a very poor showing against the clever young Philadelphian, and surprised the spectators by quitting in the third round. Ryan opened with a left smash on Griffo's face, and had the better of the Australian in several rallies during the first two rounds. It was very apparent that Griffo was not in good shape, and his well-known style of defense was not in evidence. Ryan sent rights and lefts to the head and face cleverly in the third round, and had Griffo bleeding from the mouth. The latter sent back some punches on the body and head, but they lacked steam. When he saw that Ryan had the better of the contest Griffo stopped, and said as he tugged at his gloves: 'I'll give you the decision; I can't box tonight.'

"There were hisses and cat-calls when this was heard. Griffo walked to the ringside and said: 'I am in no condition to-night. You all know I have been on a long vacation, and am not in shape. A week from to-night I will meet this man and box him ten rounds.'

"This did not satisfy the sports, and they denounced Griffo in very strong terms."

Young Griffo vs. Jack Everhardt

2008-02-13T19:05:37Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427803</fight> * '''Attendance:''' 2,500 * '''Venue:''' Lyceum Theater, Buffalo, NY ''Chicago Tribune, July 11, 1896:'' "Young Griffo and Jack Everhardt fought twenty rounds in...

<fight>427803</fight>

* '''Attendance:''' 2,500

* '''Venue:''' Lyceum Theater, Buffalo, NY

''Chicago Tribune, July 11, 1896:''

"Young Griffo and Jack Everhardt fought twenty rounds in the Lyceum Theater tonight under the auspices of the Empire Athletic club.

"When Referee Brooks declared it a draw most of the 2,500 people who cheered were in doubt as to whether they had witnessed a hippodrome or a sparring match between clever but weak boxers.

"The men entered the ring at 10 o'clock. Griffo was seconded by Tommy Ryan, Jack Grace, and Ed Dunphy [Eddie Duffy]. Back of Everhardt were Charley White, Frank Erne, and Frank Zimpfer. The Australian looked better than usual, but was beefy above the belt. Everhardt was in fine trim. At the beginning he seemed dazed by the tricks of Griffo, but in the second round met Albert's rushes with a vim and thereafter followed the Australian about the ring in a way that seemed to surprise Griffo.

"Griffo made frequent savage attacks and wild lunges. He was unable to hurt the Southerner, and the crowd, seeing no damage done in fifteen rounds, hissed. Then the pair warmed up, and the last two rounds were full of give and take, with Griffo in the role of acceptor. Both men lacked steam, and the only blood of the night came from Everhardt's cheek. The fight was not entirely satisfying to the crowd, which evidenced a desire for more blood and grogginess."

''Brooklyn Eagle, July 11, 1896:''

"The men danced around the ring for fourteen rounds and the blows exchanged in their frequent rushes did no damage. There was plenty of hissing in the fifteenth. In the seventeenth round the fighting livened up. Everhardt landed six times on Griffo's body and sent his head back with a brisk left. Griffo's defense was fair and he put his left on Everhardt's neck. In the nineteenth Griffo opened Everhardt's cheek, but the latter landed a shower of blows on Griffo's neck and body. He was weak, however, and if the draw was not pre-arranged it was evident that Everhardt had waited too long to put his man out. The last round was of the give and take order, with the advantage in Everhardt's favor. There was talk of a fake at the conclusion of the match, but Referee Brooks' decision was cheered."

Young Griffo vs. Sam Tonkins

2008-02-13T18:31:16Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427764</fight> * Referee: John Eckhardt ''Associated Press, June 2, 1896:'' "Griffo and Tonkins fought at catch weights. Tonkins surprised the crowd by his quick work. He kept G...

<fight>427764</fight>

* Referee: John Eckhardt

''Associated Press, June 2, 1896:''

"Griffo and Tonkins fought at catch weights. Tonkins surprised the crowd by his quick work. He kept Griffo busy all the time, and when the latter did land, his blows were weak. Both fought fast, and Griffo roughed a good deal in the ninth, and was given the decision."

''Brooklyn Eagle, June 2, 1896:''

"The last and star bout, between Young Griffo and Sam Tonkins of Astoria, was a pretty exhibition. Griffo was not in good shape, while his opponent was trained to the hour. Tonkins started in at once and landed effectively in the first round. He followed his vantage, and in the second round made the clever Australian hustle to keep out of his way.

"Up to the sixth round Tonkins more than held his own and was not afraid of his opponent. He continued to do most of the leading, but the phenomenal defense of Griffo prevented him from landing. Griffo started in the seventh round and landed when and where he pleased. They mixed it up in the eighth and ninth rounds, but Tonkins began to tire. The tenth round was lively. Griffo immediately led and landed three straight punches on the jaw. Tonkins clinched, and in the breakaway jabbed Griffo. They were at it hammer and tongs when the bell sounded. The referee decided in favor of Griffo—a just decision. The latter knew, however, that he had been in a scrap and had to work harder than he has for a long time to get the decision."

Joe Gans vs. Young Griffo (1st meeting)

2008-02-12T20:13:12Z

El Intocable:

<fight>18083</fight>

The men gave a sparring exhibition lasting 10 rounds, at the end of which Griffo announced that he had agreed not to put Gans out as a condition precedent to the bout. The crowd hooted and yelled "fake." ''(Steubenville Daily Herald)''

James Conroy, business manager for young Griffo, is in town. Mr. Conroy says that Griffo was obliged to deal gently with Joe Gans in their bout before the Eureka Athletic Club of Baltimore Monday night, else Gans would not have sparred.

"We tried our best to get a man who would stand up and give Griffo a good, stiff set-to, but there wasn't a man in the city who would do it, and we did the best we could, and let Gans go on with him. Griffo could have pleased the crowd by punishing Gans, but he promised faithfully not to slug, and he kept his promise." ''(Washington Post, November 20, 1895)''

Joe Gans vs. Young Griffo (1st meeting)

2008-02-12T20:09:12Z

El Intocable:

Young Griffo vs. George Dixon (3rd meeting)

2008-02-12T19:52:43Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>17684</fight> * '''Referee:''' Charles Sagel ''Associated Press, October 29, 1895:'' "The arena of the new Manhattan Athletic Club was filled to-night with the wearers of the Ch...

<fight>17684</fight>

* '''Referee:''' Charles Sagel

''Associated Press, October 29, 1895:''

"The arena of the new Manhattan Athletic Club was filled to-night with the wearers of the Cherry Diamond and their guests, who gathered to see George Dixon and Young Griffo in a ten-round 'go' at catch weights.

"Dixon and Griffo entered the ring at 10:25 o'clock, and the 'feather' looked well, but was twenty pounds heavier than Dixon."

"Announcer Burns said that the men had an agreement that if they were well and strong on their feet at the end of ten rounds the bout would be declared a draw. Tom O'Rourke jumped into the ring and said the Griffo [Dixon, as O'Rourke was Dixon's manager] party would not agree to a decision. Griffo then said: 'If it is to be a decision I will fight five more rounds.'

"The men went back to their corners, and the bout was declared a draw. The men then left the ring after a good deal of grumbling on both sides."

''Brooklyn Eagle, October 29, 1895:''

"The ten rounds were a magnificent exhibition of determined and persistent attack on the one side and invincible defense on the other. Griffo was big and fat, certainly twenty-five pounds heavier than his dusky and remarkable opponent.

"Dixon as usual began the attack with a rush and flew at his man all the way through with right and left. For the first half of the bout Griffo simply awaited Dixon's rushes and contented himself with jabbing him on the face and body. The fight was confined for the most part to Dixon's corner, the Australian insisting on pinning his man there.

"The opening rounds were comparatively tame. In the fifth round Griffo obliged Dixon to retreat to his own territory and amidst the frantic shouts of the audience poured a fusillade of jabs into George's face, who tried to protect it with both arms. Dixon worked like a horse up to the eighth round but no trick that he could try could penetrate the magnificent defense of the phenomenal Australian. In the eighth round there was more fighting than in all the others put together. Griffo woke up from his usual phlegmatic condition and rushing Dixon to ropes near his own corner smashed him four times on the face in quick succession. Again the crowd shouted and applauded and Tom O'Rourke began to look uneasy. Dixon got nettled and tried his rushing tactics once more, but Griffo's defense was impenetrable. Dixon was a trifle wild in the last round, but in one of his furious rushes he caught Griffo a thump on the jaw with his left and the Australian retaliated with two left jabs on the face. The bout was called a draw as has been intimated. Griffo was twice cautioned during the fight, once for hitting Dixon too low and again for some questionable tactics with his elbow."

''New York Times, October 29, 1895:''

"There is not much to be said of the ten rounds that Dixon and 'Griffo' fought, except that it was the old story. 'Griffo' cannot hit hard. He punches and seldom swings. Dixon is built to stand punches. The colored man is quick, but not quick enough to get in a blow before the Australian has put his hands or arms in the way, has ducked or dodged.

"For four rounds last night Dixon did not hit 'Griffo' once, and in the rest of the contest counting blows were rare.

"'Griffo' forced the work, keeping Dixon in his corner through the entirety of almost every round. The work of both men was clever, and that fact was recognized by cheers and applause."

''Washington Post, October 30, 1895:''

"Young Griffo's marvelous science was again displayed in his ten-round bout with George Dixon at the New Manhattan Club's opening Monday night. Had the contest been for points Griffo would have been given the decision as he did most of the leading and scored the majority of the blows. He repeatedly found Dixon fill in the face with left-hand jabs, and gave a masterly exhibition of defensive fighting. Dixon was unable to execute any havoc with that disemboweling left of his, and the wild and futile attempts he made to put a fatal right hander across on Griffo's jaw shows palpably that he was seized with an attack of the rattles. It was the third meeting in which these clever youngsters have engaged, and from a scientific point of view Griffo is the better man. He familiarized himself with Dixon's methods, and measured his man's science to perfection. Griffo's success with Dixon proves that the negro is at his worst when fighting an active man at short range."

Young Griffo vs. Jerome Quigley

2008-02-11T19:17:50Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427620</fight> ''Washington Post, March 24, 1895:'' "Philadelphia, March 23.—Young Griffo bested Jerome Quigley, of this city in a four-round bout at the Southwark Athletic Clu...

<fight>427620</fight>

''Washington Post, March 24, 1895:''

"Philadelphia, March 23.—Young Griffo bested Jerome Quigley, of this city in a four-round bout at the Southwark Athletic Club to-night. The men started to 'mix it up' in the first round, and the Australian soon proved his superiority at this style of fighting. Griffo's straight left-hand punches landed on his opponent's face in rapid succession in the second and third rounds, and in most instances he got away without a return. Griffo used a straight left almost entirely during the bout, and in the second round he had Quigley bleeding freely at the nose. The local made a fair showing in the last round, landing an upper-cut soon after the call of time, and forcing Griffo to the ropes in an interchange of blows. No decision was rendered, but Griffo would have been entitled to the verdict had one been given."

Young Griffo vs. Jack Hanley

2008-02-11T19:03:33Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427618</fight> ''Washington Post, March 21, 1895:'' "Philadelphia, March 20.—At the Southwark Athletic Club to-night in a six-round bout Jack Hanley gave Griffo the best fight ...

<fight>427618</fight>

''Washington Post, March 21, 1895:''

"Philadelphia, March 20.—At the Southwark Athletic Club to-night in a six-round bout Jack Hanley gave Griffo the best fight he has had since he has been meeting men in this city. No decisions are rendered at the contests at this club, but if one had been given the fight would probably have been called a draw, with Hanley having a shade the best of it.

"In the first round Griffo did all the leading and had by far the best of it, but Hanley obeyed his instructions, which were to allow the Australian to set the pace at the opening. In the second Hanley met Griffo's rushes fairly and the round was about even up. In the third round Hanley met one of Griffo's rushes with a straight punch on the nose, which started the blood flowing, and followed it up with a smashing right. Griffo seemed to be slightly winded during the remainder of the round and throughout the fourth round, and Hanley several times visited his sore nose and started the blood flowing afresh. In the fifth round Griffo gathered himself together and it was even up, and throughout the sixth round the Australian fairly outfought the local man."

Young Griffo vs. Charles (Bull) McCarthy (2nd meeting)

2008-02-11T18:42:25Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427617</fight> ''Washington Post, March 17, 1895:'' "Philadelphia, March 16.—The big crowd which packed the hall of the Southwark Athletic Club to the doors to-night went away ...

<fight>427617</fight>

''Washington Post, March 17, 1895:''

"Philadelphia, March 16.—The big crowd which packed the hall of the Southwark Athletic Club to the doors to-night went away with the impression that clever as Griffo is, he is not a punisher. His opponent was Charles (Bull) McCarthy, and he gave Griffo so good an argument that the Australian got little glory from the contest.

"In the first round he started right at McCarthy, and landed quite a number of light, quick punches. They did not seem to phase the Philadelphian the least bit, and he managed to get back a couple of blows.

"McCarthy assumed the offensive in the second round, and he kept the visitor on edge all through the round. McCarthy landed a couple of good, straight left-handers in the face, and also got in some blows on the Australian's body.

"The third round was a pretty one, both men showing great cleverness. Toward the latter part of the round McCarthy seemed tired and, although Griffo landed on his jaw and the side of the head, he did not seem at all disturbed, and only laughed sneeringly.

"McCarthy took the offensive in the fourth, and the round was all his, Griffo not landing a good punch. Toward the end of the round McCarthy was forcing Griffo. "Bull" got in one or two upper cuts and landed several right-hand swings on the head."

Young Griffo vs. Kid Lavigne

2008-02-05T22:57:16Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>170362</fight> * '''Referee:''' George Siler * '''Attendance:''' 3,000 ''Chicago Tribune, February 11, 1894:'' "'Young' Griffo had a close call from defeat at the Lake Front arm...

<fight>170362</fight>

* '''Referee:''' George Siler
* '''Attendance:''' 3,000

''Chicago Tribune, February 11, 1894:''

"'Young' Griffo had a close call from defeat at the Lake Front armory last night in his eight round go with George Lavigne."

"Lavigne's showing was a revelation even to his friends, and while George Siler, the referee, properly decided the affair a draw, as there was not enough advantage on either side to merit a decision if one had been given, Lavigne must have won. Griffo's admirers may take exceptions to this statement, but if they closely sum up the result of the fight they can hardly do so with justice."

"In the first two rounds he [Griffo] kept Lavigne in his own corner, but in the sharp rallies that followed in rapid succession the Michigan lad secured almost an even break. When Griffo closed with him he would stand and punch and landed quite as often as the Australian. The third round was just as fast and the fourth found both men tired. That caused no surprise, as the work had been remarkably fast. If Griffo had a chance to win it was in this round. Lavigne was dead tired, but Griffo was no better, and the round was uneventful. From that time on Lavigne was much the stronger of the two. Griffo began to break ground, and Lavigne, following him, fought wildly at times, his left hand particularly going high over the alien's head, but he landed at times, and several stiff punches over the heart did the tiring Australian no good.

"Last night's set-to was not conclusive of course, as Lavigne was trained to the hour, while Griffo was big and fat, but on last night's showing Griffo would have his hands full winning from Lavigne in a finish fight."

Young Griffo vs. Ike (Spider) Weir

2008-02-05T20:41:19Z

El Intocable: New page: <fight>427594</fight> * '''Referee:''' George Siler * '''Attendance:''' 3,000 * '''Purse:''' $1,500; $1,000 to the winner, $500 to the loser. As bout was declared a draw, both fighters re...

<fight>427594</fight>

* '''Referee:''' George Siler
* '''Attendance:''' 3,000
* '''Purse:''' $1,500; $1,000 to the winner, $500 to the loser. As bout was declared a draw, both fighters received $750 (Chicago Tribune, March 18, 1893).

''Associated Press, March 18, 1893:''

"A crowd which filled to overflowing the Second Regiment Armory tonight saw there the 'Belfast Spider' and Arthur Griffith, better known as 'Young Griffo,' box two rounds. They had started on the third, when the contest was stopped by the police. Griffo plainly showed that he weighed more, by ten or fifteen pounds, than the Spider, and in science was more than a match for Weir."

"First round—Weir led for Griffo and fell short, receiving a hot blow on the ribs in return. Griffo landed on Weir's neck twice and reached for his face, but was stopped. It was give and take with fast in-fighting, the round ending in Griffo's favor.

"Second round—At the call of time, Griffo went at Weir in a lively manner, and soon had him winded. Following up this advantage, Griffo knocked Weir to his knees, and when he jumped up Griffo hit him again, avoiding a clinch, and, coming back, knocked Weir down a second time. This was followed by three more knock-downs, and Weir was all but out when time was called.

"Third round—The round opened with Weir rushing Young Griffo, but the advantage of superior weight was too much for the 'Spider.' Twice Griffo knocked Weir down, and the latter was obliged to take time to get on his feet, being very groggy. At this juncture Inspector O'Shea ordered the contest stopped, and Weir's seconds rushed into the ring and helped him to his corner. The referee was obliged to call the fight a draw, much to the disgust of the crowd."

''Chicago Tribune, March 18, 1893:''

"There was an agreement that if the police stopped the fight it should be a draw. Could it have been possible that the Spider inveigled Inspector Shea into stopping the fight? The Inspector was there simply to do his duty, and did it, but might not the Spider have played his cards so as to really force the Inspector to stop the mill."

User talk:Bert

2008-02-01T22:12:10Z

El Intocable: 1937 Golden Gloves

== Inserting Asterisk ==

I guess I do not quite understand the question, Bert. You can't just type in an asterisk, or am I missing something more? What IS the purpose of the asterisk* anyway? --[[User:Ric|Ric]] 20:53, 16 November 2007 (CST)

----
Bert,

Thank you so much for adding the info on Harry Smith! I was mainly looking to substantiate the change I've made, as BoxRec had Jim Pettaway incorrectly listed as the 1956 AAU champ. I just added a few more facts to Harry's profile; I have results of his other bouts but this should probably be sufficient for a quick overview. He also won multiple Interservice Championships and boxed at the 1950 and 1951 AAU Championships (lost in the semis and preliminaries, respectively), for example, but I don't want to go overboard here. :)
--[[User:El Intocable|El Intocable]]

== Max Grothe/Harry Smith of Buffalo ==

Bert,

I just added a bit of info on Max and Harry. Not sure if Max indeed participated in the Korean War.

== 1937 Golden Gloves ==

Bert,

Jackie Donovan and Harry Smith won the 1937 Tournament of Champions; they both came from Buffalo, not NYC, and apparently won the local elimination tourney there. This was the first New York Tournament of Champions, when participants came from across the Eastern seaboard. Unfortunately, I do not have results of Buffalo eliminations, so I did not include Harry's Buffalo title. I think you should remove your today's changes.

I entered Jackie Donavan to the NY (City) Golden Gloves, he won the open title, representing the Buffalo Courier Express, as Harry Smith did, these were major titles, why would you want me to remove them? Bert

== 1937 Golden Gloves ==

Bert,

Right now you are calling the same tournament by two different names. They won the Tournament of Champions, not the local Golden Gloves for NY Metro. 1937 was the first year when the Tournament of Champions took place.

== 1937 Golden Gloves -- Response to Your Message ==

Bert, we are miscommunicating. In 1937 and 1938, regional GG tournaments took place, and then local champions entered the combined NY tournament. I feel that it is very confusing that you list two New York titles for winners of these tournaments.

For example, Sal Bartolo won the 1937 New England Golden Gloves (outpointed Desmarais in the finals), then entered the 1937 Tournament of Champions and won it as well. His regional title is not listed, but he has 2 New York titles, as if he first won the NY Metro title, and then won the tourney of champions. There was just one New York tournament, so I feel that only one title should be listed. The same applies to Buffalo Golden Gloves champions, etc.

== 1937 Golden Gloves ==

"Totaly disagree. The NY City and Chicago City Tournaments were first, even out drew the others at times (1944)." Bert

Bert, we are really miscommunicating. For example, for Sal Bartolo you have two lines:

1937 won New York (City) Golden Gloves in the bantamweight division.
1937 won New York Golden Gloves Tournament Of Champions in the bantamweight division.

This was one and the same tournament!! Why do you give it two separate lines?

User talk:Bert

2008-02-01T20:36:54Z

El Intocable: 1937 Golden Gloves -- Response to Your Message