Best boxer of last 15 years???

n1ebf · Post by **n1ebf** » 12 Dec 2007, 18:10

Captain Hook wrote:
boxerbob wrote:lennox lewis was koed by 2 terrible champions

he doesnt deserve to even be in the top20
One of the most stupid things I've ever read, anywhere...

well here it is again.....and my reason, because Lewis was badly KO'd not once but TWICE during his peak boxing years although it can be argued that the Heavies are a more susceptible bunch to the odd KO due to the sheer weight/punch power differential.

n1ebf · Post by **n1ebf** » 12 Dec 2007, 18:14

Southpaw Stylist wrote:Are we talking about talent wise or overall?

Either way, I'm just gonna list my favourite fighters talent wise.

1. Jones
2. Mayweather
3. Whitaker
4. Toney
5. Winky

That's a great list. I've alwys been a big fan of Winky. Unfortunately I've never see Whittaker box but will have to get some footage ordered. I have never seen Toney box as a middleweight where I understand he was superb.......(I'm assuming it's the same Toney that beat Holyfield then failed the drugs test)......to be honest should a boxer really be failing drug tests and still getting on the list. Isn't Moseley another?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Dec 2007, 20:09

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:WTF is Chavez??? Towards the end of his powers in the mid 90s, but easily a top 10 fighter still.

Well if you want to class fighters who fought in the last 15 years, but not their actual achievement / performances in those 15 years - then yep, Chavez would be there. Along with the likes of Leonard, Hearns etc.

However - no way is he based on his performances from 1992-2007.... I actually think Whittikar is being overated by some based on those years... In there yes, but he only had 3 or so prime years in these 15.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Dec 2007, 20:11

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:
Southpaw Stylist wrote:Are we talking about talent wise or overall?

Either way, I'm just gonna list my favourite fighters talent wise.

1. Jones
2. Mayweather
3. Whitaker
4. Toney
5. Winky
That's a great list. I've alwys been a big fan of Winky. Unfortunately I've never see Whittaker box but will have to get some footage ordered. I have never seen Toney box as a middleweight where I understand he was superb.......(I'm assuming it's the same Toney that beat Holyfield then failed the drugs test)......to be honest should a boxer really be failing drug tests and still getting on the list. Isn't Moseley another?

Mosley hasn't officially failed a test, Roy Jones and Toney have... Jones' though is a little more sceptical (possible cover up, possible tampering).

Mosley AND Holyfield have been longer rumoured, but haven't been confirmed.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 12 Dec 2007, 20:16

Terry D wrote:But 'best boxer' makes me think of Toney right away. Jones won more belts but once the physical gifts of the two are stripped away

Full stop - that makes no sense whatsoever. I ccould counter with, "Toney had the greater ring craft, but once the boxing skills are stripped away, Jones had the greater physical gifts." You can't divorce the two.

STP · Post by **STP** » 12 Dec 2007, 20:52

1. Toney
2. Jones
3. Mayweather
4. Whitaker
5. The rest

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 12 Dec 2007, 20:55

Sammy Mendelson wrote:Best boxers of the last 15 years.

1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Roy Jones
3. Bernard Hopkins
4. Oscar de la Hoya
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Marco Antonio Barerra
7. Erik Morales
8. Felix Trinidad
9. Winky Wright
10. Joe Calzaghe

This was done very quickly and may need revision.

Damn right It needs revising.

Tito above Calzaghe Is Insane.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 12 Dec 2007, 20:55

STP wrote:1. Toney
2. Jones
3. Mayweather
4. Whitaker
5. The rest

That tubby bitch got outboxed by Sam Peter.

STP · Post by **STP** » 12 Dec 2007, 20:58

The Toney who fought DeWitt, Barkley, Thornton and Littles with his weight on-cue was absolutely pin-point, fornicating beautiful. You could tell he was a totally different class to Benn, and a different class to Eubank. And they were no mugs!

He was about the best I've seen I'd say.

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 12 Dec 2007, 23:55

Toney is genius.

Mayweather is like a mix between Toney, Jones and Whitaker.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 13 Dec 2007, 03:43

STP wrote:The Toney who fought DeWitt, Barkley, Thornton and Littles with his weight on-cue was absolutely pin-point, effing beautiful. You could tell he was a totally different class to Benn, and a different class to Eubank. And they were no mugs!

He was about the best I've seen I'd say.

Benn and Eubank would have given Lights Out a good fight at 168. Not sure they'd have beaten him but I don't think he was in a totally different class.

Pity those fights didn't happen.

Great fighter though.

Even when he got too lazy to shift the weight he still made some decent fighters look average.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 13 Dec 2007, 06:09

Max Molyneux wrote:
Sammy Mendelson wrote:Best boxers of the last 15 years.

1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Roy Jones
3. Bernard Hopkins
4. Oscar de la Hoya
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Marco Antonio Barerra
7. Erik Morales
8. Felix Trinidad
9. Winky Wright
10. Joe Calzaghe

This was done very quickly and may need revision.
Damn right It needs revising.

Tito above Calzaghe Is Insane.

Tito has a better resume than Calzaghe so it's not really all that insane.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 13 Dec 2007, 07:17

It's not insane at all, Tito has to be above Joe, just look at who he's beaten....

STP · Post by **STP** » 13 Dec 2007, 15:12

He was a totally different class to Nigel as far as boxing skills mate, that's quite plain to see. Nigel was great at teeing off and could be quite awkward with his lateral upper body movement, but his lack of boxing skills was exposed on many occasions (Reggie Miller, Sanderline Williams, Sugar Boy Malinga 1, Giminez, Nardiello). He didn't look very good against DeWitt beyond his robust punching, whereas Toney looked sublime.

Eubank was a different level to Nigel as far as boxing ability, but Toney made far less mistakes (than Eubank) and was much more fluid, and just a class above in that respect. Bare in mind, I rate Toney at his best as about the best I've seen.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 13 Dec 2007, 15:57

Terry D wrote:
Try watching some boxing from the mid and early 1990's then talk about Toney.

Toney is one of the best technical fighters to put on a pair of boxing gloves. He also should have got the 'W' first time against Peter. An amazing achievement.

Yes if a middleweight could have actually win the world heavyweight crown (without failing a post fight test) that would be some achievement and I would definately have them as my number one pick

hehehe

chesh · Post by **chesh** » 13 Dec 2007, 16:02

Terry D wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:
STP wrote:1. Toney
2. Jones
3. Mayweather
4. Whitaker
5. The rest
That tubby bitch got outboxed by Sam Peter.
Try watching some boxing from the mid and early 1990's then talk about Toney.

Toney is one of the best technical fighters to put on a pair of boxing gloves. He also should have got the 'W' first time against Peter. An amazing achievement.

Well said, Terry. Toney's skills were sublime. He was probably the best P4P fighter until he lost to Jones. And he was extremely weight-drained going into that fight.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Dec 2007, 16:13

Not when Jameel McCline should have got the W aswell over Peter.... Peter isn't Ali, and he isn't Sonny Liston either. He's not even the saviour of this devision.

He's not even particularly good.

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 13 Dec 2007, 21:01

Agreed. Toney is one hell of a technician.

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 13 Dec 2007, 21:28

for me it is between Floyd and Roy.......Jones was p4p #1 for a long time.....Jones more naturally gifted however Floyd technically is better....Jones relied heavily on speed, he could get away with a lot....we see now, with his reflexes not so sharp that he is vulnerable.....

.....Floyd has a lot of speed but doesn't rely on it....his defence would still be top notch even if you took a little speed away, in a similar way to James Toney weighing 240 lbs and still being hard to hit....Judah looked quicker than Floyd, but technically he wasn't on the same level

at a push....personally i find it very hard not to say Jones....he wowed me as a young fight fan....however Floyd isn't far from forcing me to change my mind

STP · Post by **STP** » 13 Dec 2007, 21:43

STP wrote:but his lack of boxing skills was exposed on many occasions (Reggie Miller, Sanderline Williams, Sugar Boy Malinga 1, Giminez, Perez)

Sorry I meant Nardiello

Crew2 · Post by **Crew2** » 14 Dec 2007, 04:22

I READ A BENN QUOTE FROM A MAGAZINE ABOUT UK GARAGE FROM BACK IN 98 AND HE WAS ASKED IF HE HAD ANY REGETS ABOUT THE 2ND STEVE COLLINS FIGHT AND SAID "Yeah. That I didn't rip my gloves off and just punch Naseem Hamed's face in at the very start of the match. Knock all of his teeth out, smash his skull into little tiny pieces and toss his arms and legs out into the crowd."

(SAW IT LASTNIGHT)

HAD ANYONE HEARD THAT BEFORE ?? I WAS QUITE SHOCKED ACTUALY.

ANYWAY, BEST BOXER SINCE 93, HAS TO BE......... ROY....JONES....JUNIOR

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 14 Dec 2007, 05:31

Terry D wrote:
stujones wrote:Not when Jameel McCline should have got the W aswell over Peter.... Peter isn't Ali, and he isn't Sonny Liston either. He's not even the saviour of this devision.

He's not even particularly good.
He's a natural puncher at the weight though and Toney stood right in front of him and slapped the piss out of him in fight one. Put Jones in there, at that point and we'd have the first case of WRSF (Runny Shit stops Fight).

Toney is the epitome of good boxing.

So Toney being a better fighter when shot is your arguement point?

Shall we condem Ali for getting beaten up by Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick... Leonard for getting destroyed by an old Macho Camacho.

Why don't we compare there respective performances over the same opponent at the weight... John Ruiz.

Sorry its a bit of a rediculous stance I think your taking - As I said, Leonard got taken out vs Light Punching, overweight, Camacho.... Is he a no chinned fighter who once the reflexes were gone - couldn't do anything else? Was should he just not be in the ring.

Roy Jones is in that category - and Toney been taking some full blooded shots against fighters in which he shouldn't do now.

Also, Roy has shown some adaption in his more recent fighters.... Ajamu and Henshaw are not world beaters, but a decent fringe opperators.... Roy has looked shot, but found a way to beat them.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 14 Dec 2007, 06:09

I didn't mention Leonard vs Norris at all in my argument.

People get shot in different ways - Leonard lost his punch resistance, Steve Robinson lost his punch resistance, Roy Jones lost his punch resistance. Toney lost his punch output and in recent fights relied too much on his chin.

I conceed that Toney is fresher than Jones for fighters of similar age - maybe its been the breaks in Toney's career or the fact that he has never battled the scales in recent years - but that shouldn't take away from the fact that prime for prime - Jones was better and he had it all (including a masterful defence and good chin).

Roy Jones fighting a succession of smaller guys - sorry, think your thinking of Bernard Hopkins here.

Yeah - all those tiny Middles/SuperMiddles and Light Heavies Jones faced - only really Pazienza was out sized significantly.

All you need to do is a google search on Ruiz vs Jones and you will show pictorial evidence that Roy had a chin.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 14 Dec 2007, 06:34

I often get mixed up with these types of question.

When you say the last 15 years, do you mean a fighter who has turned pro or risen to prominence over the last 15 years (or so), or do you mean any fighter that has boxed in the last 15 years & it doesn't matter when they retired etc, as long as they have done something worthwhile since 1992?

If you mean the latter, then I would say Pernell Whittaker, but if you mean the former, then it's Floyd Mayweather, followed by Roy Jones Jr.

Raff The Frenchman · Post by **Raff The Frenchman** » 14 Dec 2007, 07:02

has anyone mantioned Ricardo "finito" Lopez? he retired undefeated after 52 fights and has fought all the best...