The New York Daily News reported yesterday that the FBI, as part of on going investigations into boxing corruption, have ceased documents pertaining to De La Hoya's last fight. They have reason to believe it was fixed.
This is a potential 5hit storm for the sport and another ugly back eye, whatever the outcome. Most casual sport's fans will take the attitude 'there ain't no smoke without fire' and once again dismiss boxing to the garbage can of sports.
I find it hard to believe that a fight such as this, which many had De La Hoya winning, was fixed so that the less popular and therefore less profitable fighter would come out on top.
Whatever the answer, boxing once again is dragged into controversy.
FBI To Investigate Top Rank Over DLH v SSM II
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TerribleTerry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5272
- Joined: 29 Aug 2003, 12:30
I don't find it hard to believe at all to be honest.
Where was the fight held again....oh yeah.... Las Vegas....
Think "odds".
Think how much money the house stood to make by laying Oscar De La Hoya, and how much was poured onto him by the public to win that fight.
Without question, the bookmakers made multiples of millions on the outcome of that fight, and (for legal reasons, this is strictly "hearsay") a few million of that can be happily handed out to the fight organisers and "everyones happy".....
Where was the fight held again....oh yeah.... Las Vegas....
Think "odds".
Think how much money the house stood to make by laying Oscar De La Hoya, and how much was poured onto him by the public to win that fight.
Without question, the bookmakers made multiples of millions on the outcome of that fight, and (for legal reasons, this is strictly "hearsay") a few million of that can be happily handed out to the fight organisers and "everyones happy".....
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MightyWarrior
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 13262
- Joined: 23 Jan 2003, 14:01
Wonderful. The FBI, supposedly on "high terror alert", find the time and money to investigate a fight that most people agree was a close run thing.
Like Terrible Tel says, the money men would've been desparate for a Golden Boy win...maybe they've got info on some sort of betting scandal but it seems very unlikely.
Like Terrible Tel says, the money men would've been desparate for a Golden Boy win...maybe they've got info on some sort of betting scandal but it seems very unlikely.
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TerribleTerry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5272
- Joined: 29 Aug 2003, 12:30
Leftgroov, your take on the controversy is plausible in terms of giving a reason to fix a fight, but if such a high profile contest as this is open to abuse/mishandling then why do we even bother following the ‘sport’?
After the dodgy ref in the Reid-Ottke fight and the idea that casinos/promoters are fixing fights in Vegas I really may have to re-evaluate why I even watch boxing. It is a farcical situation.
After the dodgy ref in the Reid-Ottke fight and the idea that casinos/promoters are fixing fights in Vegas I really may have to re-evaluate why I even watch boxing. It is a farcical situation.
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MightyWarrior
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 13262
- Joined: 23 Jan 2003, 14:01
Terry - I wholly agree with you.
Boxing by it's very nature attracts a lot of money, and a lot of money attracts a lot of dubious characters unfortunately (in all sports and all walks of life)
In a country that can (allegedly) assassinate presidents, otherthrough foreign governements, and dictate the world economy....fixing a high profile boxing match is merely child's play.
People need to stop believing that fights don't get fixed. OF COURSE THEY DO..WAKE UP!
We have to just unfortunately (a) accept it "probably" happens, and continue to support the "sport" anyway or (b) walk away....
Sad but true.
Boxing by it's very nature attracts a lot of money, and a lot of money attracts a lot of dubious characters unfortunately (in all sports and all walks of life)
In a country that can (allegedly) assassinate presidents, otherthrough foreign governements, and dictate the world economy....fixing a high profile boxing match is merely child's play.
People need to stop believing that fights don't get fixed. OF COURSE THEY DO..WAKE UP!
We have to just unfortunately (a) accept it "probably" happens, and continue to support the "sport" anyway or (b) walk away....
Sad but true.
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 45231
- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
Well, I for one am glad of this.
It is easy to believe that the fight was a fix, the amount of money made from gambling on that fight must have been pretty astronomical, and a loss for DLH doesn't even dent his marketability at all.
Take into account also the fact that had Mosley lost and his career would have been over, and you see that the result ensures there is more money in the machine overall.
The fact they are being investigated is a good, not a bad thing, it shows the crooks in boxing that there will be comeback .
I don't know whether this was a case of corruption or not, but if it is, at least there will be some people sweating.
It is easy to believe that the fight was a fix, the amount of money made from gambling on that fight must have been pretty astronomical, and a loss for DLH doesn't even dent his marketability at all.
Take into account also the fact that had Mosley lost and his career would have been over, and you see that the result ensures there is more money in the machine overall.
The fact they are being investigated is a good, not a bad thing, it shows the crooks in boxing that there will be comeback .
I don't know whether this was a case of corruption or not, but if it is, at least there will be some people sweating.
I read Bob Mee's report of Mosley-De La Hoya again the other day, and Bob, not one for sensationalism, said that De La Hoya was definitely robbed. The judging was "worrying" he said.
It was the first thing I thought about when I heard of this FBI raid last night.
I know for a fact that Stanley Christodoulou, one of the judges in the fight, has a long-standing grudge against Bob Arum (De La Hoya's promoter) stemming from the 1983 Roberto Duran-Davey Moore fight when, at the last second, Arum bowed to a few anti-apartheid supporters campaigning outside Madison Square Garden and pulled South Africa's Christodoulou as the referee (the referee who replaced Stanley, an incompetent Mexican whose name escapes me now, nearly got Davey Moore killed).
And Arum's tirade after the Mosley fight centred directly around the choice of Christodoulou as a judge for the fight. He accused a member of the Nevada Athletic Commission of appointing Christodoulou as "payback to us (Top Rank)."
That member was Dr. Flip Homansky.
Arum said the WBA did not approve Christodoulou, but that he was appointed as a judge because he was Homansky's choice. Homansky vehemently denies that assertion.
Arum said the WBA sent a letter of protest to the commission on August 27 last year, when it learned that the commission planned to recommend Christodoulou as a judge of the fight.
"They had an obligation to tell me about that (WBA protest) letter and to tell me the WBA had disapproved Christodoulou," said Arum, an outspoken critic of the sanctioning bodies. "The way it was going to be was the WBA would have one judge, the WBC would have the other and the Nevada commission would appoint the third.
"I wasn't worried about the mechanics of it at the time because I'm busy promoting the fight. I've got more important things to worry about. But if I had known about the letter the WBA sent, it would have set off an alarm and I would have looked into it."
Arum claims Homansky has had a vendetta against Top Rank for several years, which Homansky said is "utterly and completely ridiculous and totally false."
Arum said Homansky decided to seek revenge against Top Rank because of disagreements over medical issues Homansky has had with Top Rank staffers, notably vice president Todd duBoef and matchmakers Bruce Trampler and Sean Gibbons.
Homansky was the primary commission advocate for mandatory magnetic resonance imaging/magnetic resonance angiography tests earlier this year, which Top Rank vehemently opposed.
Homansky admitted there have been tensions between him and Top Rank staffers and said he believes they stem from his desire to increase medical testing of fighters. But he said he played no role in the selection of Christodoulou. He said he has no reason to take out anything against De La Hoya and said the selection of the three judges was routine.
"Marc Ratner, the commission executive, is the one who ultimately recommends the officials to the commissioners," Homansky said. "He asked what I thought of Stanley Christodoulou and I told him I thought Mr. Christodoulou is an excellent official. I never spoke to the WBA and I never lobbied for or against anyone.
"Marc handled it completely, with zero input from me. I never spoke to anyone at the WBA. Never. Marc is the best in the world at evaluating officials and it was 100 percent his decision to recommend Christodoulou."
Ratner said he e-mailed Christodoulou several weeks before the fight to see if Christodoulou would be available. He said he never had any more contact with him. Ratner said he allows the sanctioning bodies to have input into the recommendation of officials, but said it is ultimately the commission's right to appoint the officials it chooses.
It was the first thing I thought about when I heard of this FBI raid last night.
I know for a fact that Stanley Christodoulou, one of the judges in the fight, has a long-standing grudge against Bob Arum (De La Hoya's promoter) stemming from the 1983 Roberto Duran-Davey Moore fight when, at the last second, Arum bowed to a few anti-apartheid supporters campaigning outside Madison Square Garden and pulled South Africa's Christodoulou as the referee (the referee who replaced Stanley, an incompetent Mexican whose name escapes me now, nearly got Davey Moore killed).
And Arum's tirade after the Mosley fight centred directly around the choice of Christodoulou as a judge for the fight. He accused a member of the Nevada Athletic Commission of appointing Christodoulou as "payback to us (Top Rank)."
That member was Dr. Flip Homansky.
Arum said the WBA did not approve Christodoulou, but that he was appointed as a judge because he was Homansky's choice. Homansky vehemently denies that assertion.
Arum said the WBA sent a letter of protest to the commission on August 27 last year, when it learned that the commission planned to recommend Christodoulou as a judge of the fight.
"They had an obligation to tell me about that (WBA protest) letter and to tell me the WBA had disapproved Christodoulou," said Arum, an outspoken critic of the sanctioning bodies. "The way it was going to be was the WBA would have one judge, the WBC would have the other and the Nevada commission would appoint the third.
"I wasn't worried about the mechanics of it at the time because I'm busy promoting the fight. I've got more important things to worry about. But if I had known about the letter the WBA sent, it would have set off an alarm and I would have looked into it."
Arum claims Homansky has had a vendetta against Top Rank for several years, which Homansky said is "utterly and completely ridiculous and totally false."
Arum said Homansky decided to seek revenge against Top Rank because of disagreements over medical issues Homansky has had with Top Rank staffers, notably vice president Todd duBoef and matchmakers Bruce Trampler and Sean Gibbons.
Homansky was the primary commission advocate for mandatory magnetic resonance imaging/magnetic resonance angiography tests earlier this year, which Top Rank vehemently opposed.
Homansky admitted there have been tensions between him and Top Rank staffers and said he believes they stem from his desire to increase medical testing of fighters. But he said he played no role in the selection of Christodoulou. He said he has no reason to take out anything against De La Hoya and said the selection of the three judges was routine.
"Marc Ratner, the commission executive, is the one who ultimately recommends the officials to the commissioners," Homansky said. "He asked what I thought of Stanley Christodoulou and I told him I thought Mr. Christodoulou is an excellent official. I never spoke to the WBA and I never lobbied for or against anyone.
"Marc handled it completely, with zero input from me. I never spoke to anyone at the WBA. Never. Marc is the best in the world at evaluating officials and it was 100 percent his decision to recommend Christodoulou."
Ratner said he e-mailed Christodoulou several weeks before the fight to see if Christodoulou would be available. He said he never had any more contact with him. Ratner said he allows the sanctioning bodies to have input into the recommendation of officials, but said it is ultimately the commission's right to appoint the officials it chooses.
James makes an excellent point here in my view. Individual fights don't matter in the eyes of these people as much as the continued profitability of "the machine".jamesmcdonnell wrote: Take into account also the fact that had Mosley lost and his career would have been over, and you see that the result ensures there is more money in the machine overall.
I'm not saying this happens, but it wouldn't "surprise me", if matches are made, and results determined long before we (the public) become aware of them. Business....is business. Legal or otherwise.