Fighters Who Came From Way Back To Win

torodecayey · Post by **torodecayey** » 11 Dec 2007, 14:00

Corrales-Castillo -maybe not behind on cards, but was secs from losing
Harding- Andries
Avelar- W Vazquez
Barkley- Hearns -
Paez- Calvin Grove

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 14 Dec 2007, 13:25

HomicideHenry wrote:might as well have been a shut out, considering for the longest time Marciano was blinded in the fight against Walcott, just like Ali was against Sonny Liston.

A. You said Marcinao had lost every round. He didn't. It was a very close, back and forth fight. He won at least 4 rounds.

B. Maciano situation wasn't anything like Ali's. Ali couldn't see at all for more han 2 minutes.
Marciano was cut, but could still see his opponent. Watch the fight. Marciano came at Walcott. There was no point where he had no idea where Walcott was.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 14 Dec 2007, 14:39

marciano said "he couldnt see", his eyes were burning. he was blinded for 2 rounds.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 14 Dec 2007, 14:47

Guess the following haven't been mentioned yet:

Dempsey vs. Sharkey
Patterson vs. Moore
Moore vs. Durelle
Foreman vs. Moorer
Eubank vs. Watson II
And of course the classic: Chavez vs. Taylor I

P.S.: Man United vs. Bayern Munich 1999

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 14 Dec 2007, 16:08

Barkley-Hearns 1 was possible the most dramatic comeback of the last 20 years. Barkley was being battered all over the ring, was cut to pieces and close to being stopped in round 3..........then delivered the big bomb to flatten Hearns

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 15 Dec 2007, 09:40

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:marciano said "he couldnt see", his eyes were burning. he was blinded for 2 rounds.

He may have said that, but it's simply not true. We talked about this before. Blind means you can't see at all. He could. He knew where Walcott was. It's all on tape, plain as day.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 16 Dec 2007, 00:54

Minotauro wrote:Jose Luis Ramirez vs Rosario 2 I think Ramirez was floored two or three time and came back to win within 4 rounds.

You think wrong.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 16 Dec 2007, 01:01

Welterweight champion Virgil Akins had a ten round non-title fight with Tombstone Smith

where Smith won every round and then Akins suddenly came on to stop Smith in the 10th round.

Smith cried in the ring after he came to.

Curley Lee did wonderfully against Cleaveland Williams and then Williams came back to kayo Lee in the 10th round.

After his career was over Cleveland Williams said the most most gifted fighter he ever fought was Curley Lee.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 16 Dec 2007, 01:47

You can feel the subtext on that last line.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 17 Dec 2007, 00:32

Goodnight, Irene wrote:You can feel the subtext on that last line.

Take it up with Cleveland Williams, Irene.

Perhaps someone with a certificate in Political Correctness like Irene should chastise Cleveland Williams for his politically incorrect statement.

Doug Jones said after his entire career was over that the most gifted fighter he fought was Harold Johnson.

After Doug Jones was KO'd by a young Joe Frazier, Jones said the Frazier who beat him was far advanced in level over the Ali he fought (two fights before Ali fought Liston).

We can all see the subtext in your comment, Irene,

and we can all see that you prefer comments by boxing "experts" like Thomas Hauser, Bert Sugar, Howard Cosell and Norman Mailer to statements by those ignorant of the subject like Cleveland Williams and Doug Jones.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 17 Dec 2007, 00:46

The irony is that I am usually the one saying Ali is overrated (& he is) & that his accomplishments --- genuinely great as they are --- cannot possibly justify his mythology. I Feel Fine is already one member here who can attest I am not especially enamoured of Ali, & don't even get me started on, "the genius of the Cleveland Williams fight", we always hear about from his die-hards. Please

That said, someone who says Ali pulled a quit job against Larry Holmes is no better. Your comments are just the reverse equivalent of those who go all starry-eyed at the mention of Ali's name.

To some degree I have some sympathy with your sentiment because Ali is hopelessly overhyped, but you undersell him just as stubbornly. He was not as good as many will give him credit for --- & he was much better than you will ever admit he was.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 17 Dec 2007, 00:54

Goodnight, Irene wrote:The irony is that I am usually the one saying Ali is overrated (& he is) & that his accomplishments --- genuinely great as they are --- cannot possibly justify his mythology. I Feel Fine is already one member here who can attest I am not especially enamoured of Ali, & don't even get me started on, "the genius of the Cleveland Williams fight", we always hear about from his die-hards. Please

That said, someone who says Ali pulled a quit job against Larry Holmes is no better. Your comments are just the reverse equivalent of those who go all starry-eyed at the mention of Ali's name.

To some degree I have some sympathy with your sentiment because Ali is hopelessly overhyped, but you undersell him just as stubbornly. He was not as good as many will give him credit for --- & he was much better than you will ever admit he was.

Irene, the "irony" is that you nailed yourself as a member of the snide, effete Politically Correct with your post whining about anyone posting Cleveland Williams' opinion of fighters he fought.

And in the above you studiously avoid addressing what I posted on Doug Jones' opinion of those he fought.

Take it up with Cleveland Williams and Doug Jones, Irene.

My posts on their comments contained only THEIR opinions.

And you reacted in objection to these fighters being allowed to have any opinion of their own on those they fought.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 17 Dec 2007, 00:58

Goodnight, Irene wrote:The irony is that I am usually the one saying Ali is overrated (& he is) & that his accomplishments --- genuinely great as they are --- cannot possibly justify his mythology. I Feel Fine is already one member here who can attest I am not especially enamoured of Ali, & don't even get me started on, "the genius of the Cleveland Williams fight", we always hear about from his die-hards. Please

That said, someone who says Ali pulled a quit job against Larry Holmes is no better. Your comments are just the reverse equivalent of those who go all starry-eyed at the mention of Ali's name.

To some degree I have some sympathy with your sentiment because Ali is hopelessly overhyped, but you undersell him just as stubbornly. He was not as good as many will give him credit for --- & he was much better than you will ever admit he was.

Don't forget about Eddie Futch (or The Traitor as crankberry refers to him) who was paid by the Ali industry to stop a rampaging Joe Frazier from coming out for the 15th round and KOing that fraud Ali.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 17 Dec 2007, 01:03

I wasn't criticising Williams for his opinion, though. I'll concede that it was quite possible to interpret it that way, so perhaps I should have made it clearer.

This is what my point with the, "subtext" comment was...

I suspect you will ignore any fighter who says Ali was the best they fought, but (to borrow your line) studiously highlight it when an Ali opponent says otherwise. That's what I was saying, & I see no reason to dissuade from that point.

I've got no problem with Doug Jones & Cleveland Williams saying what they said. I disagree, but, hey, I didn't fight the guys. They did. What I have a problem with is what I outlined above --- you are every bit as selective as any Ali fan is. Just in reverse.

I can honestly say you are the first person on any forum I have ever encountered to label me part of an Ali brigade.

Ali is oversold. You undersell him.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 17 Dec 2007, 01:04

When Buzz' butt boy Collins shows up, Buzz is not far behind.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 17 Dec 2007, 01:06

Goodnight, Irene wrote:
I've got no problem with Doug Jones & Cleveland Williams saying what they said.

Gee, that's generous of you, Irene.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 17 Dec 2007, 01:12

I don't have a problem with what they said. I guess in your opinion that isn't good enough. So then let me ask of you --- what would be the right response of me to their comments?

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 17 Dec 2007, 01:19

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I don't have a problem with what they said. I guess in your opinion that isn't good enough. So then let me ask of you --- what would be the right response of me to their comments?

You'll have to figure that out for yourself.

I am not in the business of telling others what to say.

That job belongs to Cato the Censor.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 17 Dec 2007, 01:25

How about this?

Since their opinion does not settle on Ali being their best opponent, I should accept it as gospel? I have a feeling that would work for you, but you just didn't want to be the one to put it that way.

You & I should be in agreement & we are to the extent we both think Ali is oversold. But you are too extreme the other way for me. That's fine. Opinions are subjective. It's just a shame that when the overwhelming majority is hopelessly in love with Ali, those less blinded by the overstatements can't find agreement between themselves. That's life.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 17 Dec 2007, 01:32

Goodnight, Irene wrote:How about this?

Since their opinion does not settle on Ali being their best opponent, I should accept it as gospel? I have a feeling that would work for you, but you just didn't want to be the one to put it that way.

You & I should be in agreement & we are to the extent we both think Ali is oversold. But you are too extreme the other way for me. That's fine. Opinions are subjective. It's just a shame that when the overwhelming majority is hopelessly in love with Ali, those less blinded by the overstatements can't find agreement between themselves. That's life.

I genuflect every morning at the shrine of the Religion of Ali,

surrounded by my books by Thomas Hauser, Bert Sugar, Thomas Hauser, Norman Mailer, Thomas Hauser, George Plimpton, etc

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 17 Dec 2007, 01:45

I guess if nothing else, it's nice to think that someone out there genuinely thinks that at my best, I could have beaten Muhammad Ali.

Quite flattering, actually.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 17 Dec 2007, 02:05

granberry wrote:
Goodnight, Irene wrote:How about this?

Since their opinion does not settle on Ali being their best opponent, I should accept it as gospel? I have a feeling that would work for you, but you just didn't want to be the one to put it that way.

You & I should be in agreement & we are to the extent we both think Ali is oversold. But you are too extreme the other way for me. That's fine. Opinions are subjective. It's just a shame that when the overwhelming majority is hopelessly in love with Ali, those less blinded by the overstatements can't find agreement between themselves. That's life.
I genuflect every morning at the shrine of the Religion of Ali,

surrounded by my books by Thomas Hauser, Bert Sugar, Thomas Hauser, Norman Mailer, Thomas Hauser, George Plimpton, etc

Hahahaha, you funny little man.

I hope you curse The Traitor Eddie Futch who sold out to the Ali industry.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 17 Dec 2007, 02:07

Goodnight, Irene wrote:How about this?

Since their opinion does not settle on Ali being their best opponent, I should accept it as gospel? I have a feeling that would work for you, but you just didn't want to be the one to put it that way.

You & I should be in agreement & we are to the extent we both think Ali is oversold. But you are too extreme the other way for me. That's fine. Opinions are subjective. It's just a shame that when the overwhelming majority is hopelessly in love with Ali, those less blinded by the overstatements can't find agreement between themselves. That's life.

In agreement? So you too think Eddie "The Traitor" Futch sold out in Manila and that Jimmy Young won all 15 rounds against Ali?

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 17 Dec 2007, 02:17

I think Ali should have lost the decision to Young, but no one could score every round for Young. You just can't, so I don't agree with that.

Futch selling out to the Ali industry by stopping Frazier? WTF!? No, I don't think that could possibly be true.

I don't agree about those points at all. Not remotely.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 17 Dec 2007, 02:21

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I think Ali should have lost the decision to Young, but no one could score every round for Young. You just can't, so I don't agree with that.

Futch selling out to the Ali industry by stopping Frazier? WTF!? No, I don't think that could possibly be true.

I don't agree about those points at all. Not remotely.

No wonder granberry has no time for you, mate. Those are absolute truths to him...