What's better???

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 17 Dec 2007, 20:49

Thoughts?

Joe Corona · Post by **Joe Corona** » 17 Dec 2007, 23:46

there needs to be a third option - who cares about plastic belts!?

the belts are only as good as the people holding them these days - the boxing world is turning against them.

Bottom line, IMO and in the opinion of most nether have ever been true world champion and neither wont until they beat the best in their division.

Mundine is at best the 3rd best 168lber in the world and thats the best he ever has been, and Green barely breaks the top 10, perhaps the absolute highest is around 8th or so at 175 pounds at the moment.

But to answer your question, if they both retired today, 99.9% will say Mundine was the better fighter and had the better career.

Bushboy · Post by **Bushboy** » 18 Dec 2007, 03:07

Joe Corona wrote:there needs to be a third option - who cares about plastic belts!?

the belts are only as good as the people holding them these days - the boxing world is turning against them.

Bottom line, IMO and in the opinion of most nether have ever been true world champion and neither wont until they beat the best in their division.

Mundine is at best the 3rd best 168lber in the world and thats the best he ever has been, and Green barely breaks the top 10, perhaps the absolute highest is around 8th or so at 175 pounds at the moment.

But to answer your question, if they both retired today, 99.9% will say Mundine was the better fighter and had the better career.

Good enough point, But For the interim title Danny beat Eric Lucas who was a superstar and although it was a crap fight he did beat a legitamate champion in Drews, He beat Branco in a good display and although he has no power at all he showed brief flashes of his awesome speed and evasion.. Bottom line was that he did not want to be near Green let alone trade with him, and his own trainer said he has lost his hunger and will retire. Im guessing his last payday was a good one and he probably intended to not get bashed silly in his last fight..
Mundine beat a clearly finished Echols for his first fight and an outsized Soliman.. He fought Siaca and lost and fought kessler and lost..

R_jay · Post by **R_jay** » 18 Dec 2007, 03:13

Lucas was a superstar? Drews a legitimate champion? Echols was clearly finished? I couldn't disagree more with all of that.

Both Mundine's and Green's title claims are spurious, but Mundine beating Echols was better than Green beating Lucas or Drews IMO.

Bushboy · Post by **Bushboy** » 18 Dec 2007, 03:21

Rjay, echols had a bullet in his leg mate.. The consensus in any aus boxing forum will be that echols was over the hill.. In his day lucas was the king of the super middleweight division and recieved the mother of all dodgy decisions when beaten by beyer..
Stipe Drews won the belt fair and square off Branco in a good fight, it wasnt a vacant title with a blown up middleweight..
Think before you speak

this bloke · Post by **this bloke** » 18 Dec 2007, 03:21

R_jay wrote:Lucas was a superstar? Drews a legitimate champion? Echols was clearly finished? I couldn't disagree more with all of that.

Both Mundine's and Green's title claims are spurious, but Mundine beating Echols was better than Green beating Lucas or Drews IMO.

i agree

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 18 Dec 2007, 03:55

In the late 80's I could name most titleholders in most divisions, who they beat to get the title and who they'd defended against. Then it started getting so confusing that I simply gave up caring too much for titles alogether

Grant · Post by **Grant** » 18 Dec 2007, 04:11

regardless Danny is the highest ranked light heavy in the WBA. Mundine is not the highest ranked super middle in the WBA. Danny Green is not the first person to beat a substandard champion. Mundine has never beaten a champion.

Hmmmmm

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 18 Dec 2007, 06:25

do people just want to forget who got beaten when they fought and it wasnt even close

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 18 Dec 2007, 06:27

Grant wrote:regardless Danny is the highest ranked light heavy in the WBA. Mundine is not the highest ranked super middle in the WBA. Danny Green is not the first person to beat a substandard champion. Mundine has never beaten a champion.

Hmmmmm

he will have when he beats green at light heavyweight

Grant · Post by **Grant** » 18 Dec 2007, 07:29

p4p1 wrote:
Grant wrote:regardless Danny is the highest ranked light heavy in the WBA. Mundine is not the highest ranked super middle in the WBA. Danny Green is not the first person to beat a substandard champion. Mundine has never beaten a champion.

Hmmmmm
he will have when he beats green at light heavyweight

I think he will probably beat Green at Lt Heavy too, and then Mundine will go about saying he is the greatest athelete in the know universe. but lets face it. Neither Mundine or Green are Great. That should be reserved for the special few and I am afraid until Choc fights someone of genuine class we will never know.

AntonS · Post by **AntonS** » 18 Dec 2007, 09:31

IMO, the ultimate title would have to be WBE

R_jay · Post by **R_jay** » 18 Dec 2007, 09:48

Bushboy wrote:Rjay, echols had a bullet in his leg mate.. The consensus in any aus boxing forum will be that echols was over the hill.. In his day lucas was the king of the super middleweight division and recieved the mother of all dodgy decisions when beaten by beyer..
Stipe Drews won the belt fair and square off Branco in a good fight, it wasnt a vacant title with a blown up middleweight..
Think before you speak

Wow, what a giant dose of revisionist history.

Echols was in career best form. He'd had that big win over Charles Brewer, and was 5-0 4 KO's since the Hopkins fight, and all the fans were talking him up. I remember how he was regarded very well. Everyone thought he was going to kill Mundine, but he took Echols to school.

Lucas was the king of the division?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!! Errrr....... there was this little guy called Joe Calzaghe fighting at the time. Sven Ottke was about 28-0 and the ether #1 or #2 in the division. Beyer was widely considered one of the weakest champions in boxing, and Lucas' big claim to fame was getting his ass beat by Roy Jones after Jones played 3 quarters of semi-pro basketball prior to the fight.

As for Drews, you saw the fight. Was he a "champion"?

Green's win over Lucas was a good one and he looked great in that fight, but Echols was universally regarded as a wrecking ball at the time. Thats why I take Mundine's accomplishment's over Green's.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 18 Dec 2007, 15:00

Even in the over the top world of modern boxing, there is no way that Eric Lucas could be labeled a 'superstar'.

Even Mr Hot Air himself Angelo Hyder would think twice before trying to sell us that fantasy.

knightshadeau · Post by **knightshadeau** » 18 Dec 2007, 16:02

AntonS wrote:IMO, the ultimate title would have to be WBE

And all this time I thought you were a WBF fan and supporter..

toppity · Post by **toppity** » 18 Dec 2007, 18:07

R_jay wrote:
Bushboy wrote:Rjay, echols had a bullet in his leg mate.. The consensus in any aus boxing forum will be that echols was over the hill.. In his day lucas was the king of the super middleweight division and recieved the mother of all dodgy decisions when beaten by beyer..
Stipe Drews won the belt fair and square off Branco in a good fight, it wasnt a vacant title with a blown up middleweight..
Think before you speak
Wow, what a giant dose of revisionist history.

Echols was in career best form. He'd had that big win over Charles Brewer, and was 5-0 4 KO's since the Hopkins fight, and all the fans were talking him up. I remember how he was regarded very well. Everyone thought he was going to kill Mundine, but he took Echols to school.

Lucas was the king of the division?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!! Errrr....... there was this little guy called Joe Calzaghe fighting at the time. Sven Ottke was about 28-0 and the ether #1 or #2 in the division. Beyer was widely considered one of the weakest champions in boxing, and Lucas' big claim to fame was getting his ass beat by Roy Jones after Jones played 3 quarters of semi-pro basketball prior to the fight.

As for Drews, you saw the fight. Was he a "champion"?

Green's win over Lucas was a good one and he looked great in that fight, but Echols was universally regarded as a wrecking ball at the time. Thats why I take Mundine's accomplishment's over Green's.

If you use your logic when considering the Green v Drews fight, in a similar way to your logic for Mundine schooling Echols, then Green's win over drews was equally impressive. Just as Echols was at the top of his game, then in the same way so was Drews. Branco who Drews took the title off was no mug, and he was 6-0 after losing to Briggs.

No question that Mundine did school Echols, he had a well concieved game plan and stuck to it. Hit and hold, hit and hold.... It worked, and he won.

Regardless, unless Green finds some speed (not likely at his age) and a way of catching Mundine, I don't think it matters what weight they fight at Mundine will always have a better plan.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 18 Dec 2007, 18:33

toppity wrote:
R_jay wrote:
Bushboy wrote:Rjay, echols had a bullet in his leg mate.. The consensus in any aus boxing forum will be that echols was over the hill.. In his day lucas was the king of the super middleweight division and recieved the mother of all dodgy decisions when beaten by beyer..
Stipe Drews won the belt fair and square off Branco in a good fight, it wasnt a vacant title with a blown up middleweight..
Think before you speak
Wow, what a giant dose of revisionist history.

Echols was in career best form. He'd had that big win over Charles Brewer, and was 5-0 4 KO's since the Hopkins fight, and all the fans were talking him up. I remember how he was regarded very well. Everyone thought he was going to kill Mundine, but he took Echols to school.

Lucas was the king of the division?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!! Errrr....... there was this little guy called Joe Calzaghe fighting at the time. Sven Ottke was about 28-0 and the ether #1 or #2 in the division. Beyer was widely considered one of the weakest champions in boxing, and Lucas' big claim to fame was getting his ass beat by Roy Jones after Jones played 3 quarters of semi-pro basketball prior to the fight.

As for Drews, you saw the fight. Was he a "champion"?

Green's win over Lucas was a good one and he looked great in that fight, but Echols was universally regarded as a wrecking ball at the time. Thats why I take Mundine's accomplishment's over Green's.
If you use your logic when considering the Green v Drews fight, in a similar way to your logic for Mundine schooling Echols, then Green's win over drews was equally impressive. Just as Echols was at the top of his game, then in the same way so was Drews. Branco who Drews took the title off was no mug, and he was 6-0 after losing to Briggs.

No question that Mundine did school Echols, he had a well concieved game plan and stuck to it. Hit and hold, hit and hold.... It worked, and he won.

Regardless, unless Green finds some speed (not likely at his age) and a way of catching Mundine, I don't think it matters what weight they fight at Mundine will always have a better plan.

I have no idea where R_jay is getting this from, Echols was SHOT, literally!!! No one I knew was talking him up at all. I have to agree with bushboy about this. If that was Echols in career best form I would say Mike Tyson is still in his prime...

AND all that considered Mundine still had to run and hold for dear life to get a decision...

Green has beaten Champions Munidne hasn't. Mundine has never even been the best in his organisation.

And no I don't want Green to give Mundine a shot at his Title...

toppity · Post by **toppity** » 18 Dec 2007, 18:38

Marlin wrote:
And no I don't want Green to give Mundine a shot at his Title...

I agree with that, and I'd like to see him go international. When aussies fight world title fights overseas the undercards are usually better as well.

Brute · Post by **Brute** » 19 Dec 2007, 00:35

Mundine won't be champion until he beats Calzaghe.

Joe Corona · Post by **Joe Corona** » 19 Dec 2007, 02:11

Marlin wrote: Green has beaten Champions Munidne hasn't. Mundine has never even been the best in his organisation.

I really dont care for this pi$$ing contest, but lets get one thing straight - belt holders and "champions" are not one and the same, neither have beaten a champion.

woe31 · Post by **woe31** » 20 Dec 2007, 02:02

Mundine won't be champion until he beats Calzaghe.

Green wont be champion until he beats Hopkins using the same logic.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 20 Dec 2007, 07:36

Joe Corona wrote:
Marlin wrote: Green has beaten Champions Munidne hasn't. Mundine has never even been the best in his organisation.
I really dont care for this pi$$ing contest, but lets get one thing straight - belt holders and "champions" are not one and the same, neither have beaten a champion.

I agree mate, Green has beaten the WBA title holder but Drews wasnt in the top5 of the division so its irrelivent in my eyes and he is about 6th in the 175 pound class in my eyes.
Mundine has been gifted his belts and has never faced a world champion except in 2 of his 3 losses. He is most probably 3rd or 4th in his division and unless he fights Calzaghe he is never going to be the MAN as he puts it.

Each one of them needs to try to fight the best in there respective divisions to be the best and unless Green faces Hopkins or

Trent · Post by **Trent** » 21 Dec 2007, 04:41

Well on paper Green has a title, Mundine still doesnt hold a legit world title.

In reality both fighters havnt fought anyone of real caliber title holding quality , besides Mundine vs Kessler, Green vs Beyer Both couldnt win. Mundine beat Green so really Mundine edges ahead of the (not going by what titles any fighter holds)

I'll give Green benefit of the doubt and say he was weight drained in the fight verse Mundine, Green may come in stronger and faster at lightheavy vs Mundine. Mundines weight gain may slow him down. Mundine still has a weak chin, So i have faith Green can knock him out. (remember faith and empirical evidence are two different things

)

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 26 Dec 2007, 10:08

In answer to the question, Green is the only one with a legit world title, so that is a greater accomplishment.

As for who has the more impressive resume, it's close, but Mundine's decisive victory over Green gives him the clear edge (I defy anyone to seriously question this).

IMO Mundine is No3 in his weight, Green about No6, and if they fight at LHW Mundine will win again. As a Green fan, I don't want the fight to happen until later in their careers.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » 26 Dec 2007, 19:27

correctamundo jezzamundo!

What's better???

Which is a bigger accomplishment?

What's better???