Fighters Who Never Got Back On Track After Their First Loss

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 20 Dec 2007, 23:08

I'm watching a replay of the Gavilan/Davey title fight. I know Davey had never lost before losing to the Hawk. Davey was certainly outclassed that night. Sometimes a fighter goes undefeated and then steps up in class and looks bad,never getting back to form. Davey's career floundered around after that night with Gavilan.

I know there are many more examples. Let's kick it around.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 20 Dec 2007, 23:25

Ricky Hatton

Elton John · Post by **Elton John** » 21 Dec 2007, 00:36

I have to say Alex Ramos, Gerry Cooney, and John Tate

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 21 Dec 2007, 01:37

Later known as a referee, (Paret- Griffith) Ruby Goldstein was a highly regarded lightweight until he was belted out by Ace Hudkins.
After that it seems like the wheels came off and he was kayoed several more times.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 21 Dec 2007, 06:32

Flump · Post by **Flump** » 21 Dec 2007, 08:46

Duane Bobick
Donald Curry
John Mugabi
Tyrell Biggs

zojo · Post by **zojo** » 21 Dec 2007, 20:35

Michael Spinks

joe kurtz · Post by **joe kurtz** » 21 Dec 2007, 22:15

Jose "The Threat" Baret

Robert Mullins

David Bey

Camacho Jr ( though, his NC with Leija was what really started him on the
downward spiral IMO )

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 21 Dec 2007, 22:46

Mike Tyson

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 21 Dec 2007, 23:47

Alexandru Manea

MEISINGER · Post by **MEISINGER** » 21 Dec 2007, 23:55

john tate and gerry cooney both are great choices
tate was supposed to be the heir apparent to ali
well that was ruined by a surprise knock out loss to weaver
tate never again showed the same form after that fight.

cooney was brought along very carefully fighting some very big names
but they were all past there primes.
he fought a decent fight against one of the greatest heavyweights in history
in larry holmes.holmes was in his prime and taking this fight personally
cooney gave a good showing but was completely out of his league.
he took 2 years off after this fight falling into drugs and alcohol
he attempted a couple of comebacks but was not mentally there

a sad waste of talent on both parts

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 21 Dec 2007, 23:59

It is almost a forgotten fact that Cooney got a second title shot in his career & could again have become a champion. Second time around Cooney's opponent was much smaller & quite a bit more fragile, but as mentioned Cooney wasn't the same man who met Holmes a few years earlier.

joe kurtz · Post by **joe kurtz** » 22 Dec 2007, 14:14

That's always been the big question with me as far as Cooney's career is considered ...

Did Holmes ruin him with that 13 round beat down, which paved the way for the Spinks & Foreman blow outs that followed? Or was Gerry's chin always a liability waiting to be taken advantage of?

I think Holmes definitely "softened him up" for everyone else.
I have to believe that if Cooney were as fragile as he appeared post-Holmes, then there'd be no way he'd have gone into the 13th round with Larry that night in '82. Holmes was far from being a devastating puncher, but I think he was a bit better of a banger than most give him credit for these days. And, were Cooney's beard as bad as what we witnessed post-Holmes, then Larry'd have gotten rid of him a lot sooner than he did.

What do the rest of you gentleman think?

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 22 Dec 2007, 16:01

Flump wrote:Duane Bobick
Donald Curry
John Mugabi
Tyrell Biggs

These are some excellent examples

I'll add Jeff Fenech to the list. After being stopped by Azumah Nelson he lost to fighters that a few years earlier would he have walked through. Infact one of them Calvin Grove when asked about a Fenech fight years earlier, replied in all seriousness "are you serious? you wanna get me killed?"

p.s. whoever mentioned Michael Spinks is IMO way off base. Michael never even enjoyed the fight game and looked at the Tyson fight as his retirement fund

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 22 Dec 2007, 16:25

Mike Tyson (Some What).

"Prince" Naseem

sweetsci · Post by **sweetsci** » 22 Dec 2007, 16:39

joe kurtz wrote:That's always been the big question with me as far as Cooney's career is considered ...

Did Holmes ruin him with that 13 round beat down, which paved the way for the Spinks & Foreman blow outs that followed? Or was Gerry's chin always a liability waiting to be taken advantage of?

I think Holmes definitely "softened him up" for everyone else.
I have to believe that if Cooney were as fragile as he appeared post-Holmes, then there'd be no way he'd have gone into the 13th round with Larry that night in '82. Holmes was far from being a devastating puncher, but I think he was a bit better of a banger than most give him credit for these days. And, were Cooney's beard as bad as what we witnessed post-Holmes, then Larry'd have gotten rid of him a lot sooner than he did.

What do the rest of you gentleman think?

Joe, I'd have to agree with you. I think for the Spinks fight Cooney just wasn't properly prepared, mentally or physically. He was in better shape for Foreman, but had another three years of rust built up AND was facing a Foreman who was at his 2nd career best.

I find it interesting that Cooney blew out George Chaplin, who gave Greg Page fits, and Eddie Gregg, who looked fairly impressive to me in previous fights, so easily.

I've got the Cobb-Shavers fight on as I type - Gerry was just interviewed and it turns out it was supposed to be him in there with Shavers that night, but had to pull out due to injury.

RAPID1 · Post by **RAPID1** » 22 Dec 2007, 17:24

First of all Spinks wasn't a true heavyweight. As much as I liked
and evryone liked Gerry Cooney, he was a one dimensional fighter with
one punch. I would agree also that Holmes most likely exposed this
weakness and the fight took it's toll on him.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 22 Dec 2007, 18:14

RAPID1 wrote:First of all Spinks wasn't a true heavyweight. As much as I liked
and evryone liked Gerry Cooney, he was a one dimensional fighter with
one punch. I would agree also that Holmes most likely exposed this
weakness and the fight took it's toll on him.

Cooney was never a trained athlete.

He always had a soft midsection.

I knew two fighters who had what amounted to fakes with him.

Cooney lost to anyone who hit him back.

And he wasn't a great puncher, as his "fight" with Young showed.

Young stood directly in front of Cooney and let Cooney hit him both to the head and body.

Cooney was unable to shake Young.

Losing to the pathetic Michael Spinks shows Cooney clearly for what he was.

Spinks was a fraud as a heavyweight, as Tyson showed in 91 seconds.

Those 91 seconds include the 10-count.

Cooney's "trainer" Victor Valle was totally incompetent.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 22 Dec 2007, 18:20

sweetsci wrote:
Joe, I'd have to agree with you. I think for the Spinks fight Cooney just wasn't properly prepared, mentally or physically.

Does your sympathy for fighters not "properly prepared" go BOTH directions, sweetsci?

On his way up Cooney fought a series of "fighters' who were old and shot physical specimens, guys who were not training regularly and got tired after a few rounds of their ten round fights with Cooney, and guys who COULDN"T PUNCH.

THAT (the last point) is a basic rule when you are bringing along a guy to hopefully look good.

Richie Aprille rules · Post by **Richie Aprille rules** » 22 Dec 2007, 18:48

Yori Boy Campas, he seemed the second coming of Roberto Duran coming into the Trinidad fight... of course then he captured a title, but he was never the same fighter, I think.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 22 Dec 2007, 18:49

granberry wrote:
sweetsci wrote:
Joe, I'd have to agree with you. I think for the Spinks fight Cooney just wasn't properly prepared, mentally or physically.
Does your sympathy for fighters not "properly prepared" go BOTH directions, sweetsci?

On his way up Cooney fought a series of "fighters' who were old and shot physical specimens, guys who were not training regularly and got tired after a few rounds of their ten round fights with Cooney, and guys who COULDN"T PUNCH.

THAT (the last point) is a basic rule when you are bringing along a guy to hopefully look good.

Wow! What a revelation...

Frank Dracman · Post by **Frank Dracman** » 22 Dec 2007, 19:03

I can't believe anybody's not mentioned Davey Moore yet.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 22 Dec 2007, 19:06

How about Leroy Jones?

Cue Crankberry to come out with the usual pithy comment regarding Holmes and thumbing.

RAPID1 · Post by **RAPID1** » 22 Dec 2007, 19:30

Granberry your observations and remarks are sound.
Don't expect the same out of Sweet Scientist and it appears the same goes for Collins2000.. If it isn't... Ali or Leonard.... it's no one.

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 22 Dec 2007, 22:35

Fernando Vargas was never the same after his first loss.
Another one that I would put in there is Camacho Sr. he won the fight vs Rosario but he was never the same after that fight.