Dentsun4228 wrote: Did you ever see a tape or fight of Jack Britton or Ted Kid Lewis? If you haven't, you have no right to talk about them, because you don't know what you're talking about. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the guys calling Duran the greatest lightwt ever have never seen a tape of duran at lightwt or maybe never at all. Here's the thing: I've seen tape of many greats from bob fitzsimmons, harry greb, dempsey, jack johnson, benny leonard, gene tunney, mickey walker, barney ross, jimmy mclarnin and the list goes on and on. I have never seen tape of joe gans or some of the other old-timers like mctigue and britton and ted kid lewis. However, based on what I have seen, I can tell you this without a shadow of a doubt. Oldtimers generally sucked. Modern boxers are far better. Don't get me wrong. There were guys like Gavilan and Robinson and armstrong who stood out as great fighters who could possibly compete with the elite of today, but for the most part, today's fighters are far better conditioned, have far better technique and everything. I once heard Ali give a lecture as to why he was better than Marciano and Louis...he pointed out simple things. Things that the casual fan may never see. But everything he pointed out was true. Those guys were so flawed, they'd have problems with some of the amateurs around today. It's because boxing wasn't as advanced as it is today. Think of it this way: The best of the oldtimers were like really smart guys sitting around teaching themselves to read and write. Todays best fighters are like really smart guys who graduate from oxford or the sorbonne. The difference is that great. My point here is: I don't take the legacies of Duran, Robinson, Armstrong etc lightly. I'm just being honest and in some cases I'm being kind. I'm not dissing the oldtimers, after all I rank Ezzard charles and armstrong among the best of their weight class all-time. But putting floyd against robinson or duran or armstrong would be like fighting an alien for those guys. They'd be lost and bewildered and I know that duran would get KO'd. He was dropped by guys like Dejesus who's not even a puncher. He was easily beaten by Leonard and Benitez two guys with styles somewhat similar to floyds. The first fight where leonard stood and traded with duran and fought roberto's fight and lsot by a close margin proves that duran was no monster. Floyd wouldn't trade with him, but he'd certainly take advantage of all of duran's mistakes and take him out.
Hmm considering that no tape of Greb fighting exists and that the late Jimmy Jacobs a virtualy offered a blank cheque for anyone who could find it and it still wasnt found makes me think your talking out of your arse.
You ruined any thing you said with that very amusing sentance
Now if your going to tell fibs about your boxing knowledge try to learn a valuable lesson and not mention watching things that dont exist
Broncano wrote:ok then, how about Floyd vs. A Giant Ape/Tyrannosaurus Hybrid
Floyd, in a similar fashion as he would beat Cotto, the T-Rex-Ape would be strong, but the T-Rex part would bring a short reach.
Don't forget it would be hard for the T-Rex to break a sweat warming up in the locker room, due to its reptilian ancestory, so Floyd may KO a cold T-rex quickly.
Dentsun4228 wrote: Did you ever see a tape or fight of Jack Britton or Ted Kid Lewis? If you haven't, you have no right to talk about them, because you don't know what you're talking about. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the guys calling Duran the greatest lightwt ever have never seen a tape of duran at lightwt or maybe never at all. Here's the thing: I've seen tape of many greats from bob fitzsimmons, harry greb, dempsey, jack johnson, benny leonard, gene tunney, mickey walker, barney ross, jimmy mclarnin and the list goes on and on. I have never seen tape of joe gans or some of the other old-timers like mctigue and britton and ted kid lewis. However, based on what I have seen, I can tell you this without a shadow of a doubt. Oldtimers generally sucked. Modern boxers are far better. Don't get me wrong. There were guys like Gavilan and Robinson and armstrong who stood out as great fighters who could possibly compete with the elite of today, but for the most part, today's fighters are far better conditioned, have far better technique and everything. I once heard Ali give a lecture as to why he was better than Marciano and Louis...he pointed out simple things. Things that the casual fan may never see. But everything he pointed out was true. Those guys were so flawed, they'd have problems with some of the amateurs around today. It's because boxing wasn't as advanced as it is today. Think of it this way: The best of the oldtimers were like really smart guys sitting around teaching themselves to read and write. Todays best fighters are like really smart guys who graduate from oxford or the sorbonne. The difference is that great. My point here is: I don't take the legacies of Duran, Robinson, Armstrong etc lightly. I'm just being honest and in some cases I'm being kind. I'm not dissing the oldtimers, after all I rank Ezzard charles and armstrong among the best of their weight class all-time. But putting floyd against robinson or duran or armstrong would be like fighting an alien for those guys. They'd be lost and bewildered and I know that duran would get KO'd. He was dropped by guys like Dejesus who's not even a puncher. He was easily beaten by Leonard and Benitez two guys with styles somewhat similar to floyds. The first fight where leonard stood and traded with duran and fought roberto's fight and lsot by a close margin proves that duran was no monster. Floyd wouldn't trade with him, but he'd certainly take advantage of all of duran's mistakes and take him out.
Hmm considering that no tape of Greb fighting exists and that the late Jimmy Jacobs a virtualy offered a blank cheque for anyone who could find it and it still wasnt found makes me think your talking out of your arse.
You ruined any thing you said with that very amusing sentance
Now if your going to tell fibs about your boxing knowledge try to learn a valuable lesson and not mention watching things that dont exist
There's always some guy claiming that no tape exists of harry greb. I know there are people in here who will say the same about benny leonard and fitzsimmons as well. Well lemme explain something: Just because Jimmy Jacobs didn't have film of Greb doesn't mean nobody else does. I mean, I know that sounds crazy to you. But film of Greb does exist. If you google it you'll find that film exists of Greb training and people even have film of the one known fight that exists. So who's really full of shit here? It's people like you who talk out of your arse about fighters like Greb and Benny Leonard and fighters like that and HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY FOOTAGE OF THEM, still insisting that they were great, that really kills me. Accept change. The good old days really weren't that good. It's no good hanging on to the past. Time marches on and the things improve, including boxing. So you can choose to deal with it or not.
Dentsun4228 wrote: Did you ever see a tape or fight of Jack Britton or Ted Kid Lewis? If you haven't, you have no right to talk about them, because you don't know what you're talking about. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the guys calling Duran the greatest lightwt ever have never seen a tape of duran at lightwt or maybe never at all. Here's the thing: I've seen tape of many greats from bob fitzsimmons, harry greb, dempsey, jack johnson, benny leonard, gene tunney, mickey walker, barney ross, jimmy mclarnin and the list goes on and on. I have never seen tape of joe gans or some of the other old-timers like mctigue and britton and ted kid lewis. However, based on what I have seen, I can tell you this without a shadow of a doubt. Oldtimers generally sucked. Modern boxers are far better. Don't get me wrong. There were guys like Gavilan and Robinson and armstrong who stood out as great fighters who could possibly compete with the elite of today, but for the most part, today's fighters are far better conditioned, have far better technique and everything. I once heard Ali give a lecture as to why he was better than Marciano and Louis...he pointed out simple things. Things that the casual fan may never see. But everything he pointed out was true. Those guys were so flawed, they'd have problems with some of the amateurs around today. It's because boxing wasn't as advanced as it is today. Think of it this way: The best of the oldtimers were like really smart guys sitting around teaching themselves to read and write. Todays best fighters are like really smart guys who graduate from oxford or the sorbonne. The difference is that great. My point here is: I don't take the legacies of Duran, Robinson, Armstrong etc lightly. I'm just being honest and in some cases I'm being kind. I'm not dissing the oldtimers, after all I rank Ezzard charles and armstrong among the best of their weight class all-time. But putting floyd against robinson or duran or armstrong would be like fighting an alien for those guys. They'd be lost and bewildered and I know that duran would get KO'd. He was dropped by guys like Dejesus who's not even a puncher. He was easily beaten by Leonard and Benitez two guys with styles somewhat similar to floyds. The first fight where leonard stood and traded with duran and fought roberto's fight and lsot by a close margin proves that duran was no monster. Floyd wouldn't trade with him, but he'd certainly take advantage of all of duran's mistakes and take him out.
Hmm considering that no tape of Greb fighting exists and that the late Jimmy Jacobs a virtualy offered a blank cheque for anyone who could find it and it still wasnt found makes me think your talking out of your arse.
You ruined any thing you said with that very amusing sentance
Now if your going to tell fibs about your boxing knowledge try to learn a valuable lesson and not mention watching things that dont exist
There's always some guy claiming that no tape exists of harry greb. I know there are people in here who will say the same about benny leonard and fitzsimmons as well. Well lemme explain something: Just because Jimmy Jacobs didn't have film of Greb doesn't mean nobody else does. I mean, I know that sounds crazy to you. But film of Greb does exist. If you google it you'll find that film exists of Greb training and people even have film of the one known fight that exists. So who's really full of shit here? It's people like you who talk out of your arse about fighters like Greb and Benny Leonard and fighters like that and HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY FOOTAGE OF THEM, still insisting that they were great, that really kills me. Accept change. The good old days really weren't that good. It's no good hanging on to the past. Time marches on and the things improve, including boxing. So you can choose to deal with it or not.
Youl notice iv never said anyone is great or who iv watched Yes there is a few seconds of Greb training (not sparring BTW)but this doesnt count as hes basically fooling around and you stated youd seen the greats in action.
So now i call you OUT if you can post 5 seconds of this film of Greb in bonafide action youv seen(as you stated in above) then yes you are completly right and i am wrong.
If you CANT show this film of Greb fighting then no matter what you say or what excuse you try to come up with you are a liar and you will be making yourself look even more stupid than you already have.
I Repeat no arguements,no insults,no going off topic show the FILM you claim to know exists and have made out youv seen with your own eyes or shut up and go away.
No film = no truth = no respect = no more lies from you
Broncano wrote:ok then, how about Floyd vs. A Giant Ape/Tyrannosaurus Hybrid
Floyd, in a similar fashion as he would beat Cotto, the T-Rex-Ape would be strong, but the T-Rex part would bring a short reach.
Don't forget it would be hard for the T-Rex to break a sweat warming up in the locker room, due to its reptilian ancestory, so Floyd may KO a cold T-rex quickly.
They have since discovered that Dinosaurs were warm blooded unlike modern reptiles.
jonp wrote:
Hmm considering that no tape of Greb fighting exists and that the late Jimmy Jacobs a virtualy offered a blank cheque for anyone who could find it and it still wasnt found makes me think your talking out of your arse.
You ruined any thing you said with that very amusing sentance
Now if your going to tell fibs about your boxing knowledge try to learn a valuable lesson and not mention watching things that dont exist
There's always some guy claiming that no tape exists of harry greb. I know there are people in here who will say the same about benny leonard and fitzsimmons as well. Well lemme explain something: Just because Jimmy Jacobs didn't have film of Greb doesn't mean nobody else does. I mean, I know that sounds crazy to you. But film of Greb does exist. If you google it you'll find that film exists of Greb training and people even have film of the one known fight that exists. So who's really full of shit here? It's people like you who talk out of your arse about fighters like Greb and Benny Leonard and fighters like that and HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY FOOTAGE OF THEM, still insisting that they were great, that really kills me. Accept change. The good old days really weren't that good. It's no good hanging on to the past. Time marches on and the things improve, including boxing. So you can choose to deal with it or not.
Youl notice iv never said anyone is great or who iv watched Yes there is a few seconds of Greb training (not sparring BTW)but this doesnt count as hes basically fooling around and you stated youd seen the greats in action.
So now i call you OUT if you can post 5 seconds of this film of Greb in bonafide action youv seen(as you stated in above) then yes you are completly right and i am wrong.
If you CANT show this film of Greb fighting then no matter what you say or what excuse you try to come up with you are a liar and you will be making yourself look even more stupid than you already have.
I Repeat no arguements,no insults,no going off topic show the FILM you claim to know exists and have made out youv seen with your own eyes or shut up and go away.
No film = no truth = no respect = no more lies from you
All you had to do was Google it and you'd find film of Greb. You were too lazy or lame to even do that. Want me to feed it to you on a silver platter. You were the one who said that no film existed of Greb. You said it because people had told you that and you were too stupid to think for yourself and do your own research. Now you're all huffy at me. Don't blame me for your ignorance. The film of greb sparring and a clip from one of his fights does exist. Now that you've found the 8 minute clip of him training and sparring, it must be a revelation...lol. You think he's just "fooling around" because you don't believe he could actually be that lousy, being the idol of millions (most of whom don't even know what he looked like) maybe it should motivate you to find actual fight footage which is out there and has been shown on TV because others besides myself have seen it.
What about Duran vs Mysterious Korean, can you get that? :P
i am checking the dungeons of the internet
by the way i am an avid fight collector
and i will be honest that is the most film i have seen of greb
people lie all the time about seeing the all time greats
very lil' film is available.most that is available are only clips
and the quality of film is pathetic
you can not judge a fighter with these films.it is like flipping through a picture book.hell i can make my sons winnie the pooh book
llok like the same quality by just flipping the pages faster.
is pooh bear an olympic star i don't think so.
What about Duran vs Mysterious Korean, can you get that? :P
i am checking the dungeons of the internet
by the way i am an avid fight collector
and i will be honest that is the most film i have seen of greb
people lie all the time about seeing the all time greats
very lil' film is available.most that is available are only clips
and the quality of film is pathetic
you can not judge a fighter with these films.it is like flipping through a picture book.hell i can make my sons winnie the pooh book
llok like the same quality by just flipping the pages faster.
is pooh bear an olympic star i don't think so.
Heh.. yes I have also ben collecting for more than a couple of decades and I always find it amusing how every once in a while comes one of these "hobbits" (as our dear former boxrec member overhand_right would call them) and proclaims:
"WILLING TO TRADE FOR GREB, JOE GANS, PACKEY MC FARLAND, MEXICAN JOE RIVERS Fights
Broncano wrote:
What about Duran vs Mysterious Korean, can you get that? :P
i am checking the dungeons of the internet
by the way i am an avid fight collector
and i will be honest that is the most film i have seen of greb
people lie all the time about seeing the all time greats
very lil' film is available.most that is available are only clips
and the quality of film is pathetic
you can not judge a fighter with these films.it is like flipping through a picture book.hell i can make my sons winnie the pooh book
llok like the same quality by just flipping the pages faster.
is pooh bear an olympic star i don't think so.
Heh.. yes I have also ben collecting for more than a couple of decades and I always find it amusing how every once in a while comes one of these "hobbits" (as our dear former boxrec member overhand_right would call them) and proclaims:
"WILLING TO TRADE FOR GREB, JOE GANS, PACKEY MC FARLAND, MEXICAN JOE RIVERS Fights
MINT COPIES ONLY "
i had a guy from this site that pm'd me a while back daing he had
10 greb fights he would sell me of high digital quality
An that is what your calling watching Harry Greb in action.He was laughing and smiling and messing about,its about the same as watching one of charly spar videos and judging it from there if thats how you determine how good a fighter is from watching that "spar"
Still stands show us this fight you know of him having on film and your telling the truth.Dont think your gonna tho are you.
Oh and someone keeps asking to see this korean you seen Duran fight You seem to be edging your way round that one as well.Its people like you that claim things they have no way in hell of backing up(greb fight films,Duran fighting koreans) that make themselves look increasingly idiotic.
Well if we can judge some one from a sparring clip does that mean money getting dominated by Paul Spadafora counts?
Youl see i did say not sparring when i requested you show this amazing peice of fight footage.
Now im sure a blowhard like you would have shown this peice of footage if it exists and i think my asking for real footage not some 30 second spar that wasnt even in a ring blew you out of the water.
But im fine with 40secs of sparring representing a fighters skill because iv got about 4 mins of money sparring that we can use to represent his careeer eh
Dentsun4228 wrote:Looking at the guy, I had thought he was Korean. It was Ishimatsu. He's Japanese.
So being that you just ran to the database to find the one oriental guy who lasted the longer against Duran, quick crash course: Ishimatsu Suzuki is how he was generally known around these parts. the "Guts Ishimatsu" is from Japan and that's how it was entered by our Japanese editor. Now you know he wasn't korean, and furthermore he was not a "no-name" as you candidly put it. You'll find out that there's more film for him available out there. And no, I don't mean youtube.
Now let me ask you, this particular film where he's allegedly beating Duran to a pulp, what broadcast was it? English commentary? Spanish? B&W? color?
"