Light-Heavyweights: Ezzard Charles vs Roy Jones, Jr.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 31 Dec 2007, 02:17

Excellent match. Two good boxers with great hand speed. I pick Charles by UD or late KO. Jones would be too cautious to risk it all.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 31 Dec 2007, 05:38

I think this would be quite competitive, actually. Roy Jones, at the peak of his powers, presents not only a supreme talent, but also a stylistic bent unheard of in someone like Ezzard Charles' time.

I can see the early rounds shocking a lot of people, with Charles visibly frustrated by Jones' remarkable speed & deceptive power. The one area Jones wouldn't have his trademark success is in setting traps. Charles, even when disheartened & distracted, was a supremely intelligent fighter, & overall he's been in there with much better opposition than Jones.

What wears on Jones in the middle rounds is the mental effort of always being, "on." Charles is the best opponent Jones has ever seen at LHW by a measure of light-years. The pressure mounts. Mistakes are made. Charles' superior conditioning & similarly impressive athleticism start to narrow the gap. The later rounds would, as they should, favour the older-time fighter. Charles with a whipping left & scintillating hook would drive a shaken Jones to the ropes, & more than once. In short, Charles recovers from being frustrated against Jones better than vice versa.

Charles by late stoppage for mine in a more competitive affair than some may envision. TKO11.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 31 Dec 2007, 06:53

I think Charles wins this one by decision. BUT he struggles at times, against RJJ's speed and awkwardness. Charles wins the later rounds, after working out RJJ's style. Id like to see Charles jab more and work his left hand to chase down RJJ.

Would be a fun fight to watch that would be very competitive.

Kym

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 31 Dec 2007, 18:44

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 01 Jan 2008, 03:20

Roy Jones Jr, Charles was awesome but he never faced someone like RJJ. Speed, Angles, Footwork and Power would all work for Jones Jr. Whoever don't agree, you know what, I guess... Ya'll must've forgot!!! :P

WorldGreatest · Post by **WorldGreatest** » 01 Jan 2008, 07:06

Marlin wrote:Roy Jones Jr, Charles was awesome but he never faced someone like RJJ. Speed, Angles, Footwork and Power would all work for Jones Jr. Whoever don't agree, you know what, I guess... Ya'll must've forgot!!! :P

100% in agreement, it is an older generation vs modern generation debate again and in more cases than not, the modern guy will not get the benefit of a doubt until he is part of our history. Jones take this one on clear decision due to reasons already given above.

Minotauro · Post by **Minotauro** » 01 Jan 2008, 16:11

Charles by late stoppage

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 01 Jan 2008, 16:54

Charles ascended to the GENUINE HW crown and beat the GENUINE LHW champion both absolute greats of all time. Beating Louis, Walcott and Moore.

Please help this old person understand how RJJ's resume competes with this?

I mean the "talking points" we each would have would be

Ruiz Vs Louis and Walcott Very Close indeed I suppose....?
Moore vs Tarver Another very competitive discussion....?
A "one shot partial HW championship vs a seriously defended REAL HW championship inlcluding all time greats.

Yes I know I'm taking this a shade out of context but resumes are a starting point here. And the resume's don't seem to be competitive.

My thoughts sort of lead me to think that the Good fighter becomes a Giant in the land of midgets. One man fought in a talent rich zone...the other in talent free zone.

Sure I'm exaggerating a bit for clarity.....but not so's you'd notice.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 01 Jan 2008, 18:58

Marlin wrote:Roy Jones Jr, Charles was awesome but he never faced someone like RJJ. Speed, Angles, Footwork and Power would all work for Jones Jr. Whoever don't agree, you know what, I guess... Ya'll must've forgot!!! :P

Whooooa!
Marlin, I dont know who takes the matchup .
Its a good fight.
But Charles has definitely seen guys like Jones jr.
In fact, Id put forth that Ezzard Charles has one of the toughest resumes in Boxing history.
This man fought
Marciano
Louis
Walcot
Archie Moore
Loyd Marshall
Charley Burley
Joey Maxim
Ken Overlin
Bob Satterfield
Harold Johnson
Gus Lesnevich
And a slew of other outstanding fighters.
If he would beat Charles it wouldnt be because Ezzard never fought anyone as talented.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 01 Jan 2008, 19:56

^Um, I think we are saying the same thing. I am as impressed as anyone with Charles resume but I was talking about the type of fighters Charles faced. None of the guys you have mentioned have a style anything like Jones Jr (no doubt they are all great fighters they're just not in the RJJ mould). Too many people forget how good (and unique) Jones Jr was before he went back down from Heavyweight...

ben geoghegan · Post by **ben geoghegan** » 01 Jan 2008, 22:34

charles to big and slick, knockout

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 02 Jan 2008, 00:22

..here the buzzbomb posts the briefest correct answer....just one word...but he can't let it go at that so he has to come back with supfluous verbiage. as a new year's gesture, i'll pretend he didn't write the second one and give him major points for the first.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 02 Jan 2008, 03:09

I would have to lean towards Charles, certainly in a series of fights.

And while it may be true that Charles never fought someone exactly like Jones, Jones never fought anyone nearly as good as Charles.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 02 Jan 2008, 05:15

Jones is a tricky opponent but you can't seriously pick him to win this one. There's simply no evidence or argument to support anything other than a Charles win.

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 02 Jan 2008, 10:29

i think charles gets it but he has trouble with roys style and speed and unpredictability roy his hard to judge in these situations as when he was at his best he was never tested

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 02 Jan 2008, 10:42

I know Roy was fast but I feel some here are selling Charles' athletic prowess a little short.

Maybe some of the older members here will correct me but wasn't Ezzard Charles considered to be one of the quickest fighters of his day?

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 02 Jan 2008, 14:48

ezzard....marciano said charles was "as quick as a snake. his hook off a jab had to make him one of the greatest ever." archie moore said he just couldn't handle ezzard's speed"...and at the time the fought moore was much faster than the mongoose most have seen on tv.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 02 Jan 2008, 14:57

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I think this would be quite competitive, actually. Roy Jones, at the peak of his powers, presents not only a supreme talent, but also a stylistic bent unheard of in someone like Ezzard Charles' time.

I can see the early rounds shocking a lot of people, with Charles visibly frustrated by Jones' remarkable speed & deceptive power. The one area Jones wouldn't have his trademark success is in setting traps. Charles, even when disheartened & distracted, was a supremely intelligent fighter, & overall he's been in there with much better opposition than Jones.

What wears on Jones in the middle rounds is the mental effort of always being, "on." Charles is the best opponent Jones has ever seen at LHW by a measure of light-years. The pressure mounts. Mistakes are made. Charles' superior conditioning & similarly impressive athleticism start to narrow the gap. The later rounds would, as they should, favour the older-time fighter. Charles with a whipping left & scintillating hook would drive a shaken Jones to the ropes, & more than once. In short, Charles recovers from being frustrated against Jones better than vice versa.

Charles by late stoppage for mine in a more competitive affair than some may envision. TKO11.

I agree. Charles in his prime was VERY fast and crafty . . he wouldn't be some Vinny Paz or Clinton Woods who just gets overwhelmed by Roys speed and razzle-dazzle. Roy has success early but Charles's impeccable timing, countering ability, and durability/conditioning see him win this, very possibly by knockout.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 02 Jan 2008, 16:16

Jaclem wrote:..here the buzzbomb posts the briefest correct answer....just one word...but he can't let it go at that so he has to come back with supfluous verbiage. as a new year's gesture, i'll pretend he didn't write the second one and give him major points for the first.

are you faulting me for not making the "Louis was past his prime" excuse? Or for my generosity for not bringing up the obvious asterisk's that should be mentioned regarding Ezz's triumphs over Moore?

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 02 Jan 2008, 16:59

Buzz,
Louis was really past it when he fought Charles. He was 36 and hadn't fought in more than 2 years. He clearly wasn't anywhere near the fighter that he had once been.

When Moore fought Charles the last time, he was still only 31. Some of Archie's best fights were yet to come. It's seems fair to say that Moore was close to his prime when Charles beat him; though if you look at their entire lightheavyweight careers, you could make an arguement that Moore was at least the equal of Charles at lightheavyweight. It's pretty close.

dajuggernaut · Post by **dajuggernaut** » 02 Jan 2008, 17:06

P4P on his best night nobody beats Roy Jones Jr.

ben geoghegan · Post by **ben geoghegan** » 02 Jan 2008, 20:03

except johnson and tarver

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 02 Jan 2008, 20:30

You can look at it this way, RJJ beats Charles in a fight almost like Hopkins or Toney victories.

OR...

He is facing the best LHW ever, and loses a game, competitive decision against a man who at LHW was fast, powerful and had good movement.

I think the things that Charles lacks which RJJ would work on is, a active jab and head movement. RJJ has superb speed and reflexes as well as frustrating angles.

Its one of those pick who you like deals, I love to watch RJJ, but I think that Charles has it to win.

Kym

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 02 Jan 2008, 22:17

dajuggernaut wrote:P4P on his best night nobody beats Roy Jones Jr.

ben geoghegan wrote:except johnson and tarver

Yeah because they were on Jones Jr's best nights

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 03 Jan 2008, 03:59

..you people are just encouraging boxbuzzy. as i pointed out, his first response said it all....and with not even a word but a three letter nickname...and then comes back to add to it for no reason other than to increase his post count.

incidentally buzzy, ezzard's nickname was "snooks".