COULD HAVE ROY JONES JNR HAVE BEATEN LENNOX ??

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 04 Jan 2008, 04:29

Marlin wrote:Ya'll Must've Forgat!!!

RJJ would whoop Lennox!!!

At last, a prat with no sense of realism.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 04 Jan 2008, 05:10

Sorry one all time great light heavy i missed out was Ezzard Charles, probably the greatest light heavy never to win the world title at the weight.

Charles won the Heavy title beating amongst others Joe Louis and Jersey Joe, and pushed a prime Rocky Marciano close in their first match which went to points.

He definatly would of had the skills to box with Lewis, but i don't think he had the power to hurt Lewis, again i think Lewis's overall size and power would have overcome Charles in the end.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 04 Jan 2008, 08:09

What about Tunney? Would he have a chance? Maybe in a 10 round fight if he could keep moving?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 04 Jan 2008, 08:16

Old bones Ian wrote:so who would have faired better, you've had a number of light heavys make a certain success of jumping to heavy. Michael spinks beat Larry holmes twice, and also a lumbering Conney, but i guess everyone would look at the Tyson fight for an answer. Moorer beat holyfield and had some great tearups , but again his chin would fail him, same with Bob Foster. That would lead us to Archie Moore , he beat some decent heavys , had a good chin and could punch. Out of them all he'd stand the best chance. But he still wouldn't win , IMO .

Archie Moore could hurt just about anyone he could hit. He buzzed Marciano, who was considered inhumanly impervious. Moore was also a crafty old bastard who was great at finding gaps, and fought at a terrific pace compared to Lewis. Moore took a terrific pounding before he went against Marciano, taking 57 shots in sequence before taking the count.

Moore is the one guy I would give a chance.

Moorer was too fragile.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 04 Jan 2008, 08:24

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 04 Jan 2008, 08:53

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Old bones Ian wrote:so who would have faired better, you've had a number of light heavys make a certain success of jumping to heavy. Michael spinks beat Larry holmes twice, and also a lumbering Conney, but i guess everyone would look at the Tyson fight for an answer. Moorer beat holyfield and had some great tearups , but again his chin would fail him, same with Bob Foster. That would lead us to Archie Moore , he beat some decent heavys , had a good chin and could punch. Out of them all he'd stand the best chance. But he still wouldn't win , IMO .
Archie Moore could hurt just about anyone he could hit. He buzzed Marciano, who was considered inhumanly impervious. Moore was also a crafty old bastard who was great at finding gaps, and fought at a terrific pace compared to Lewis. Moore took a terrific pounding before he went against Marciano, taking 57 shots in sequence before taking the count.

Moore is the one guy I would give a chance.

Moorer was too fragile.

Spot on.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 04 Jan 2008, 08:57

dr_devious wrote:The only light heavy with an earthly's against Lewis would have been Sam Langford, and even that is a long shot. Langford was superhuman, the greatest p4p ever imo. He had the power of a top heavyweight and the speed of a welterweight, he had a punchers chance with Lewis who could be knocked out.
Moore always fell short at the very highest level at HW, and wouldnt last too long with Lewis.
I always thought a Lewis-Jones fight would be a total mismatch.........Jones was a blown up MW, albeit a terrifically skilled one.

The Boston Tar Baby stood only 5'7" tall and weighed around 180lbs in his pomp.

Those physical dimensions alone tell me he couldn't had troubled Lewis much.

Giving up 10" in height and 60lbs in weight would be too much for anyone to overcome, even someone of Langford's undoubted ability and toughness.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 04 Jan 2008, 09:39

TerribleTerry wrote:
dr_devious wrote:The only light heavy with an earthly's against Lewis would have been Sam Langford, and even that is a long shot. Langford was superhuman, the greatest p4p ever imo. He had the power of a top heavyweight and the speed of a welterweight, he had a punchers chance with Lewis who could be knocked out.
Moore always fell short at the very highest level at HW, and wouldnt last too long with Lewis.
I always thought a Lewis-Jones fight would be a total mismatch.........Jones was a blown up MW, albeit a terrifically skilled one.
The Boston Tar Baby stood only 5'7" tall and weighed around 180lbs in his pomp.

Those physical dimensions alone tell me he couldn't had troubled Lewis much.

Giving up 10" in height and 60lbs in weight would be too much for anyone to overcome, even someone of Langford's undoubted ability and toughness.

I accept all the reservations regarding Langford at Heavy. I have them myself. The thing is when you look at his record you'll see he beat Wills (and stopped him) who was a huge skilled heavyweight. Doesn't mean he'd beat Lewis but Langford's record suggests he'd have a chance.

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 04 Jan 2008, 11:11

Ezzard wrote:
TerribleTerry wrote:
dr_devious wrote:The only light heavy with an earthly's against Lewis would have been Sam Langford, and even that is a long shot. Langford was superhuman, the greatest p4p ever imo. He had the power of a top heavyweight and the speed of a welterweight, he had a punchers chance with Lewis who could be knocked out.
Moore always fell short at the very highest level at HW, and wouldnt last too long with Lewis.
I always thought a Lewis-Jones fight would be a total mismatch.........Jones was a blown up MW, albeit a terrifically skilled one.
The Boston Tar Baby stood only 5'7" tall and weighed around 180lbs in his pomp.

Those physical dimensions alone tell me he couldn't had troubled Lewis much.

Giving up 10" in height and 60lbs in weight would be too much for anyone to overcome, even someone of Langford's undoubted ability and toughness.
I accept all the reservations regarding Langford at Heavy. I have them myself. The thing is when you look at his record you'll see he beat Wills (and stopped him) who was a huge skilled heavyweight. Doesn't mean he'd beat Lewis but Langford's record suggests he'd have a chance.

Uhhh, no it doesn't, for the reasons I mentioned on the last page.

monkeybusiness · Post by **monkeybusiness** » 04 Jan 2008, 17:44

Lewis too big for Jones, even when he still had something left

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 04 Jan 2008, 18:12

Terry D wrote:Michael Moorer would have stood the best chance. He was dangerous when in his early heavyweight days and I think his speed, southpaw style and general style would have given Lewis nightmares.

Chin a factor though.

Moorers chin would have been the decisive factor, and it wouldnt take Lewis long to expose this.
I always saw Moorer as more of a natural heavy, grew into it after a short period in the light heavys as a youngster. He was devastating at light heavy back in the day though

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 04 Jan 2008, 18:16

ArtOfWar wrote:
dr_devious wrote:The only light heavy with an earthly's against Lewis would have been Sam Langford, and even that is a long shot. Langford was superhuman, the greatest p4p ever imo. He had the power of a top heavyweight and the speed of a welterweight, he had a punchers chance with Lewis who could be knocked out.
Moore always fell short at the very highest level at HW, and wouldnt last too long with Lewis.
I always thought a Lewis-Jones fight would be a total mismatch.........Jones was a blown up MW, albeit a terrifically skilled one.
Sam Langford would have been absolutely destroyed by Lewis. Langford fought in a time when boxing was still developing and EVERY boxers skills were primitive compared to todays guy's. Jones himself would wipe the floor with Langford as would a whole host of others fighters. No fighter of that era would cut it in modern day boxing, not with the skills they had then. I can't believe you even said that.

Moore would have had no chance either. The man was a great technician, but didn't have the athletic ability to compensate for the size disadvantage when he went up to heavyweight. That's why he always got beat when he stepped up.

Langford gave Johnson, a top 5 all-time HW a good run for his money when oversized and quite inexperienced, and beat Wills when past his best and got the better in series with McVey and Jeanette - they guys are top 20 heavies of all time. The guy was a freak and a wonderful fighter. His power would be dangerous for any boxer in history including Lewis.
Although he was only 5'7 and 180lbs, he had a very long reach, tremendous speed, and supernatural timing and ability.
Sam Langford would crack Roy Jones like an egg

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 05 Jan 2008, 05:06

Here's a queston though, could Jones Jr have beaten Riddick Bowe? i.e the Riddick Bowe that Herbie Hide couldn't? I always felt if Herbie had been anything approaching a 12 round fighter he could have had a chance there if he kept on the move.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 05 Jan 2008, 08:49

Kilburn wrote:Here's a queston though, could Jones Jr have beaten Riddick Bowe? i.e the Riddick Bowe that Herbie Hide couldn't? I always felt if Herbie had been anything approaching a 12 round fighter he could have had a chance there if he kept on the move.

..and kept off the canvas.

Bowe had fantasic combination punches and inside work when fit. His jab, and the combinations that flowed off it, were a thing of beauty when he was in the zone.

For me, Jones 'fought scared' when he had a big, dangerous opponent in front of him - his approach to Bowe would have been no different, with Big Daddy's right hand howitzer felling him some time in the second half of the fight.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 05 Jan 2008, 09:21

I loved watching Bowe fight. For a brief period he was almost like the perfect heavyweight, he really had all the tools at his disposal, and unusually for a big man, was a tremendous inside fighter. I'd have loved to have seen Bowe against Tyson, I always thought Bowe would have broken Mike down with his inside game, where Tyson wasn't so good.

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 05 Jan 2008, 16:40

dr_devious wrote:
ArtOfWar wrote:
dr_devious wrote:The only light heavy with an earthly's against Lewis would have been Sam Langford, and even that is a long shot. Langford was superhuman, the greatest p4p ever imo. He had the power of a top heavyweight and the speed of a welterweight, he had a punchers chance with Lewis who could be knocked out.
Moore always fell short at the very highest level at HW, and wouldnt last too long with Lewis.
I always thought a Lewis-Jones fight would be a total mismatch.........Jones was a blown up MW, albeit a terrifically skilled one.
Sam Langford would have been absolutely destroyed by Lewis. Langford fought in a time when boxing was still developing and EVERY boxers skills were primitive compared to todays guy's. Jones himself would wipe the floor with Langford as would a whole host of others fighters. No fighter of that era would cut it in modern day boxing, not with the skills they had then. I can't believe you even said that.

Moore would have had no chance either. The man was a great technician, but didn't have the athletic ability to compensate for the size disadvantage when he went up to heavyweight. That's why he always got beat when he stepped up.
Langford gave Johnson, a top 5 all-time HW a good run for his money when oversized and quite inexperienced, and beat Wills when past his best and got the better in series with McVey and Jeanette - they guys are top 20 heavies of all time. The guy was a freak and a wonderful fighter. His power would be dangerous for any boxer in history including Lewis.
Although he was only 5'7 and 180lbs, he had a very long reach, tremendous speed, and supernatural timing and ability.
Sam Langford would crack Roy Jones like an egg

Everyone of those guy's fought in the same era as him (obviously) and they were all just as limited as he was compared to today's fighters. A fighters all-time ranking and how he would do in head to head match up's are two different things. Of course guy's like Langford and Johnson are great fighters, because of how they dominated in their own era. However, they would be eaten alive by today's fighters, because the skill and technique of today's fighters is far superior to that of fighters who were around during the early 1900's.

Have you seen any of the old footage of Johnson? It's fair to say that he was god awful compared to today's fighters. Both he and Langford would be absolutely decimated by someone like Lewis. You can debate their legacy's, but debating how a head to head match up would go is just stupid.

n1ebf · Post by **n1ebf** » 05 Jan 2008, 17:05

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 05 Jan 2008, 17:46

Can this thread be deleted please if it is serious. Lewis would not have fought him, as it would have been a one round massacre against Roy.

As a HW champ I think Lewis is overrrated, biut he did everything well, for a big man. Why is crusier one of the most highly rated divisions today? Because the behemoths at HW have the athleticism of stonehenge.

Lewis ( and to a degree, Bowe) were the last mobile athletic HW's to grace the division.

After Tyson the division jumped massively in height and weight, but the truth is that boxers lose mobility, range, power and speed above 230 lb. Lewis and Bowe excepted.

For me the HW divison is crusier, and the lmit should be increased to 215 lb. We could have Haye Macca Hide Greenberg and many others. Boxing ability evaporates at 235lbs.

For the record, whoever puts Roy Jones in with Lennox Lewis should be arrested by the UN

Having said that Lewis was at his best the night he KO'd Ruddock at Earls Court. He was the best athlete in the world that night. What did he weigh?