Lewis V Holmes

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 05 Jan 2008, 18:14

Both were long, rangy boxers, with great skill and reigned for long periods, but were both underappreciated and unloved in their times.

Both were exceptional boxers who occassionally were criticised for negativity.

In a mythical matchup, who would've won?

My money's on Holmes. Although Lewis hit harder and was bigger, I think Lennox always struggled against men with a strong jab, and Holmes's jab was among the best -- if not the best -- in the history of the division. Also, I think it would be a long match, and see Holmes doing well in the later rounds with better stamina.

I know plenty will disagree, so, please, who do you think would prevail?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 05 Jan 2008, 18:29

Interesting fight - I know Lewis' wasn't in the best of condition, but I cannot help but think back to the Klitchsko and first Rahman fight.... when his jab was second best, he was in trouble. I think Holmes might just edge Lennox in that department.

However, Holmes never fought anyone of Lewis' stature and quality - so it would be hard to see how he would fair against him.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 05 Jan 2008, 18:37

If it's over 15 rounds, Holmes wins. If it's over 12 rounds, I'd say a draw (kop out, I know!).

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 05 Jan 2008, 19:17

Lewis, firstly don't forgett he won the Klitishko fight, secondly Holmes doesn't have Klitsckho's hight, and for both the fights you mentioned Lewis hadn't trained propperly which he would do if he was fighting Holmes I'm sure.

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 05 Jan 2008, 19:30

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:If it's over 15 rounds, Holmes wins. If it's over 12 rounds, I'd say a draw (kop out, I know!).

Not a bad thought actually.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 05 Jan 2008, 19:45

Over 10 12 or 15, at any age Larry wins.

From the off, Lennox was groomed for the title, Larry wasnt. He was a s/o or what they call TBA these days.

Larry got to 48-0 against all the odds. Lewis had tough fights with Mercer McCall and Holyfield, he was 42 at the youngest.

Lewis could have got good money v Larry, but turned it down

Larry woul have busted Lennox up, similar to the Cooney fight.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 05 Jan 2008, 20:40

josh fg wrote:Lewis, firstly don't forgett he won the Klitishko fight, secondly Holmes doesn't have Klitsckho's hight, and for both the fights you mentioned Lewis hadn't trained propperly which he would do if he was fighting Holmes I'm sure.

Points taken, but Holmes is alot better than either of these two. These were really the only fighters Lewis faced with a good jab and neither of these in the league of Holmes' and neither had the defense that Holmes had.

But yes, good response - said its a tough call

He won't beat Larry Holmes on a cut.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 05 Jan 2008, 21:17

Holmes had the best jab in the business.

Holmes was quick, smart, tough as hell, packed a punch in either hand, and could fight at a tremendous lick.

Holmes all the way for me, an absolute master in his prime, and the fact he could live with the likes of Holyfield so late on in his career shows just how incredible a fighter he was.

Holmes would have beaten Lewis to the jab again and again, and would have quite possibly stopped him late on after bedazzling him.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 05 Jan 2008, 21:27

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Holmes had the best jab in the business.

Holmes was quick, smart, tough as hell, packed a punch in either hand, and could fight at a tremendous lick.

Holmes all the way for me, an absolute master in his prime, and the fact he could live with the likes of Holyfield so late on in his career shows just how incredible a fighter he was.

Holmes would have beaten Lewis to the jab again and again, and would have quite possibly stopped him late on after bedazzling him.

You on the night shift James? Just looked at the Boxrec community on Facebook and you look a bit trim, or are they very old photos?

Anyway, I have to agree with you, Holmes had it all, and remember he was matched to lose right off the bat. Was it Roy Williams he was fed to in 76?

For me Larry is the best HW ever, and I am privileged to have grown up during his reign.

It is also pleasing that he has kept and made money. Anyone read his book?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 05 Jan 2008, 23:32

Terry D wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Holmes had the best jab in the business.

Holmes was quick, smart, tough as hell, packed a punch in either hand, and could fight at a tremendous lick.

Holmes all the way for me, an absolute master in his prime, and the fact he could live with the likes of Holyfield so late on in his career shows just how incredible a fighter he was.

Holmes would have beaten Lewis to the jab again and again, and would have quite possibly stopped him late on after bedazzling him.
Carl Williams beat Holmes to the jab by timing it right and Lewis had as clsoe if not as equal a jab. Jabbing bothered Holmes a little if the guy was equally as good. Especially if they could drop right hands.

I think both Lewis and Holmes would set jab records in a fight before Holmes' great technical ability took over later in the fight.

Had a really late one last night so sleep pattern is skewwif.

Nah, not old photographs, but wouldn't say I'm that trim right now, never been a lardarse but definetly have been in better shape than I am now.

Tykemania · Post by **Tykemania** » 06 Jan 2008, 04:35

I don't think there is a clear winner in this fight - as has been pointed out, Lewis may well have been able to live with Larry on the jab, and was for my money the bigger puncher both single shot and cumulative of the two. Ergo, I would go for him to win by late round stoppage or narrow split decision.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 06 Jan 2008, 06:17

Lewis hated jabbers & Holmes is the 2nd best jabber in HW history.

Frank Bruno managed to outjab Lewis with his ponderous jab in 1993 & even Hasim Rahman managed to outjab Lewis, when Lennox was in his boxing prime.

I think Holmes would have given Lewis fits & won on points, unanimously.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 06 Jan 2008, 11:21

Syntax Error wrote:Lewis hated jabbers & Holmes is the 2nd best jabber in HW history.

Frank Bruno managed to outjab Lewis with his ponderous jab in 1993 & even Hasim Rahman managed to outjab Lewis, when Lennox was in his boxing prime.

I think Holmes would have given Lewis fits & won on points, unanimously.

The lewis who beat Tyson and Tua would have beat Holmes the one who beat bruno may not have done. I was saying Lewis at his peak would beat holms at his peak. Who did Holmes beat with a jab like lennox's?

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 06 Jan 2008, 12:54

The only thing Lewis has on Holmes is punching power. Holmes was faster, better technically, much better stamina, better chin, better jab. Over 15 rounds I see Larry stopping an exhausted Lewis around the 13th.

I think a fairer fight is matching the Witherspoon that Holmes beat vs Lewis . . I'm not sure who wins that fight.

witherspoon · Post by **witherspoon** » 06 Jan 2008, 14:23

dempseyfire wrote:The only thing Lewis has on Holmes is punching power. Holmes was faster, better technically, much better stamina, better chin, better jab. Over 15 rounds I see Larry stopping an exhausted Lewis around the 13th.

I think a fairer fight is matching the Witherspoon that Holmes beat vs Lewis . . I'm not sure who wins that fight.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 06 Jan 2008, 15:42

I won't go and make a prediction, but if there is one similarity between Holmes and Lewis, it's the fact that neither man was either appreciated or highly thought of during their reign(s) as champion. Lewis, after retiring, said "I believe history will be kinder to me than my critics were."

Holmes for many years wasn't even considered a top 10 heavyweight, mostly in part due to the weak era he was in, second for his 'disrespect' towards a sports legend ('Marciano couldnt even carry my jock strap!') and that he not only followed Muhammad Ali, but would later butcher him in the ring when "The Greatest" made an ill-advised comeback.

Also throw in politics, and how Holmes wouldn't play the organizations games. He never unified, due to that, that and of course the almighty dollar. Throw in Holmes' own attitude and personality, he was a hard man to like alot of the times.

I must also say that Lewis was the best big man since Larry Holmes, but he didn't have that fluid movement of Larry, nor did he have quite the skills. But he did move quite well for a man 6'5" and 245 pounds and was a powerful hitter....I think Lewis was just far too open to have done much with Holmes, he carried his right hand too low. Holmes was a boxer/puncher, a great counter-puncher. He would have got to Lewis more often.

Minotauro · Post by **Minotauro** » 06 Jan 2008, 15:59

I'll do with Lennox his size, power and speed will be a problem for Holmes who barely beat Witherspoon.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 06 Jan 2008, 16:44

Holmes and Lewis are the 2 best heavyweights of the past 30 years. Holmes is no 1 and Big Len runs him close at no 2. Holmes on a close decision for me. Holmes was the master, simple as

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 06 Jan 2008, 17:43

I think Holmes has a lot of trouble against Lewis, especially early on.

Lewis who tries to play counter fighter, catches Holmes with some good rights and uppercuts and times his jab well from around round 2 through to the fifth.

Holmes moving well, keeping on his toes and pumping his jab more gets back into the fight. His right is able to blast Lewis well and the fight evens up in the last rounds. Holmes keeps the tempo up and takes the close and exciting fight via decision.

In regards to the Williams fight, I think the truth at that time had a better jab that Lewis, who had a more consistent jab through his career. Williams being as inconsistent as he was, some what peaked during that Holmes fight.

Kym

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 06 Jan 2008, 17:44

witherspoon wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:The only thing Lewis has on Holmes is punching power. Holmes was faster, better technically, much better stamina, better chin, better jab. Over 15 rounds I see Larry stopping an exhausted Lewis around the 13th.

I think a fairer fight is matching the Witherspoon that Holmes beat vs Lewis . . I'm not sure who wins that fight.

Tim Witherspoon was one of the best HW of the past 30 years. Tyson was steered Clear of him.

Prime Witherspoon beats Lewis. Tims big right would put paid to Lewis in about 5.

ben geoghegan · Post by **ben geoghegan** » 06 Jan 2008, 18:41

Rahman's win over Lewis was a fluke. Lewis wanted the immediate rematch and Rahman tried to duck him because he knew Lewis was his master. And he took his medicine the hard way !

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 06 Jan 2008, 19:18

I'm surprised so many people picked Lewis...

I think highly of Lewis, but Holmes of one of the few people I'd wager to smash him to bits (late in the fight).

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 06 Jan 2008, 20:58

Its because alot of people may be more familiar with him than say Holmes.

On top of that alot of people just dont like Holmes.

kovit · Post by **kovit** » 06 Jan 2008, 22:08

I picked Holmes by decision. When I looked at Lennox Lewis' article about comparing him against the heavyweights of the 70s, 80s and 90s at eastsideboxing.com it is crap and bullshit. Yeah I like the fantasy prediction that Frazier beats Lewis but Lewis beating the 70s version of Ali and Foreman, the 80s Holmes or the 90s Holyfield that was bullshit! I believe the 70s Ali and Foreman would beat Lennox Lewis in spite the fact that Foreman kissing and sucking up to Lewis as the greatest heavyweight champion of all time which makes me laugh my ass off. Holmes maybe the jerk but I picked Holmes over Lewis by decision. For the 90s Lewis vs. the 80s Tyson, I say Tyson 2 against Lewis 1 in 3 fights. For Lewis against the early 90s Holyfield, I say the early 90s Holyfield by decision. The only article Lewis would be in his prime is Riddick Bowe. If you sucking or kissing up to Lewis to overrate him over Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano then I would be ashamed to hear or read that.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 06 Jan 2008, 23:11

Tough fight for Holmes. Tough fight for Lewis, for that matter.

There's no question who has the greater all-round game & the more elegant boxing skills --- it's Holmes. Lewis also doesn't like guys who jab, & Holmes was better than most, nearly all, in that regard. Where I do think Holmes struggles is with Lewis' clever approach, & the size difference. Lewis is better at utilising his size than many other big Heavyweights, & let's be honest, he had talent. Holmes has to reach up to stick the jab too & that's not easy on a skilled, big man, especially one who has a crippling right hand to boot.

I think I would take Holmes in a one-off bout by close but clear decision. If they fought multiple times, I don't think a Lewis victory would be too far-fetched.