Just suppose you were allegedly........

[WildWaylon]

Would you carefully select opponents for your prospects until you thought they were up to challenging for a title ? - Would you help them to avoid certain fighters so they remain unbeaten ? - We have all been critical saying he over protects his fighters and matches them against opponents who they are unlikely to lose to ie Calzaghe/Manfredo Macca/Gunn - Q1 would you have done things differently? and Q2 do you think he is making better matches since he lost his exclusive contract with ITV and moved to Setanta? - Q3 Do you think he deserves his award?

[Tykemania]

Would you carefully select opponents for your prospects until you thought they were up to challenging for a title ? - Would you help them to avoid certain fighters so they remain unbeaten ? - We have all been critical saying he over protects his fighters and matches them against opponents who they are unlikely to lose to ie Calzaghe/Manfredo Macca/Gunn - Q1 would you have done things differently? and Q2 do you think he is making better matches since he lost his exclusive contract with ITV and moved to Setanta? - Q3 Do you think he deserves his award?

1. For Warren, probably not - he's made a lot of money in the sport and therefore is probably a very happy chappy. However, I can see why individual fighters would have done things a lot differently in retrospect - the ones who were held at domestic level or fighting for meaningless pseudo-belts through their best years who finally emerge into a proper world class fight - probably with allegedly making it sound like he's called in personal favours to get them it - only to find that they are under schooled and ever so slightly shot. For example, Jamie Moore and Graham Earl spring to mind, whilst I fear Alex Arthur and possibly Derry Matthews are headed the same way.

2. Nope. His Setanta undercards have been just as bad as, if not worse than, the ones that went before them. The Calzaghe fight was nothing short of a joke.

3. Paradoxically, he probably does, though for things that he did almost entirely in the last decade.

[chesh]

Would you carefully select opponents for your prospects until you thought they were up to challenging for a title ? - Would you help them to avoid certain fighters so they remain unbeaten ? - We have all been critical saying he over protects his fighters and matches them against opponents who they are unlikely to lose to ie Calzaghe/Manfredo Macca/Gunn - Q1 would you have done things differently? and Q2 do you think he is making better matches since he lost his exclusive contract with ITV and moved to Setanta? - Q3 Do you think he deserves his award?

Good questions, Waylon. My attempts at answers as follows:

1. I think it is wise not to match prospects too tough too soon. Extreme examples would be David Reid and Fernando Vargas who suffered brutal beatings at the fists of Trinidad and, consequently, ended up ruined before entering their primes. There is, of course, the opposite extreme which sees fighters over-protected for too long and ill-prepared for the step-up in class when it finally arrives. A case in point might be Nicky Cook who was 27-0 - his 27th win coming against the decent, but decidedly ordinary Harry Ramogoadi - when entering the lion's den for his 28th contest against a world-class operator in Steve Luevano and, despite the number of ‘W’s and the ‘0’ in the ‘L’ column, found himself out of his depth. In such cases, the preservation of the '0' at all costs can backfire and a devastating first loss can impact negatively on a fighter’s self-confidence. I hope Kevin Mitchell isn’t going the same way: 24-0, but, with all due respect to his opponents, he has faced nobody of note. The Johanneson fight would have been a step in the right direction, but even Carl, good domestic fighter though he is, falls short at European level and, if Mitchell is to mix in world class at some point, he should have moved beyond the Commonwealth belt he currently holds.

On the other hand, not all SN fighters are progressed slowly. Hamed was taking the European crown from world-class veteran Belcastro after just a dozen fights and Amir Khan is moving along nicely, although with apparent avoidance of punchers. Hatton’s learning curve was excellent, although some stages of his development lasted too long and he seemed to be treading water before taking that plunge into the deep end. As for Calzaghe, he was ready for the big time years ago. It’s a shame it’s only happening in the twilight of his career.

2. Yes. Calzaghe-Kessler, Haye-Enzo, Calzaghe-BHop are excellent matchups. Arthur-Foster Jr, was a terrific fight, too, but, so far, the undercards leave a lot to be desired. Looking back to around the mid-90s, some of SN’s shows had tremendous strength in depth. This is one I posted a few months ago:


November 9th 1996, Nynex Arena, Manchester, United Kingdom

Naseem Hamed W Remigio Daniel Molina TKO 2
Ronald Wright W Ensley Bingham UD 12
Steve Collins W Nigel Benn TKO 6
Carl Thompson W Jason Nicholson PTS 8
Michael Brodie W Miguel Matthews PTS 6
Brian Coleman L Mark Haslam PTS 6
Danny Williams W Michael Murray TKO 1
Michael Gomez W David Morris PTS 4
Terry Dunstan W Sergio Daniel Merani KO 3
Herbie Hide W Frankie Swindell KO 1


So, yes, I do think the big matches are much better since the move to Setanta, but a return to shows of the overall quality above is long overdue,

3. After due consideration, yes, I think he does deserve his award. He’s still here, the major force in British boxing and, although the matchmaking is often criticised, some major fights have been made over the years. If you factor in the efforts he’s made to ensure boxers’ safety through improved medical facilities etc., then I would find it difficult to argue that his contribution isn’t worthy.

[whicker]

November 9th 1996, Nynex Arena, Manchester, United Kingdom

Naseem Hamed W Remigio Daniel Molina TKO 2
Ronald Wright W Ensley Bingham UD 12
Steve Collins W Nigel Benn TKO 6
Carl Thompson W Jason Nicholson PTS 8
Michael Brodie W Miguel Matthews PTS 6
Brian Coleman L Mark Haslam PTS 6
Danny Williams W Michael Murray TKO 1
Michael Gomez W David Morris PTS 4
Terry Dunstan W Sergio Daniel Merani KO 3
Herbie Hide W Frankie Swindell KO 1


.

They were really good shows, looking back. A Naseem fight, plus Benn-Collins and also a local challenging for a world title (albeit in a dire fight), and a decent undercard.

The Gomez fight was last, and the main power had been switched off- so the announcer announced the scores by shouting!

[DavidPayne]

That card look sbetter in retrospect because of the fighters achievem,ents after that night.

In 1996, who was Michael Gomez?

[whicker]

That card look sbetter in retrospect because of the fighters achievem,ents after that night.

In 1996, who was Michael Gomez?

He was a prospect, but largely a moot point as the arena was virtually empty when he fought!

Collins-Benn AND Naseem on the same bill- both world title fights- also a third world title fight.

Carl Thompson was very well known by then, too, as was Herbie Hide ( former World champion.) Danny Williams was a good prospect too.

So- Three World Title fights, A former World Champion, a fighter on the verge on World title fights and several decent prospects.

Compare that to the undercard at Calzaghe's most recent fight.

Also from around the same time- http://www.boxrec.com/show_display.php?show_id=7602 FOUR World title fights on one show. [/url]

[boxbet]

What would Frank do without the WBO??

[bridportboxer]

What would Frank do without the WBO??

Work closer with the WBU!
Is the WBU still for sale or did someone buy it?

[Datsue]

If I were allegedly I'd have a special cape made, so that when I stepped over the prostrate body of the bloke I walked in with to get to his conqueror I could raise my arms for that "Nosferatu sweeping down on his unsuspecting prey" kind of effect.

[stujones]

Even the Robinson vs Hamed bil (a relatively quickly done bill) was quite good in comparison recent bills. A World title fight, two evenly matched Commonwealth title fights.

[jamesmcdonnell]

It's a hard question to answer.

Warren is one of the most skilfull promoters in the world, its a very hard business to stay in these days, managing to balance getting recognition and paydays for his fighters, as well as balancing your own books cannot be easy at all.

I've a lot of respect for Warren, despite any criticisms I may have made over the years, he's stood the test of time, and his fighters make a bloody good living out of being with his promotional outfit.

I really do wonder how well Hatton would have fared, had Warren not got him Tszyu at the right time, and with home advantage. Hatton has looked to have been a little exposed since that high point, as being just slightly less of an elite fighter than we thought, and if that is the case, than Warren did even better to get him a legit title.

[Chambers2]

Would you carefully select opponents for your prospects until you thought they were up to challenging for a title ? - Would you help them to avoid certain fighters so they remain unbeaten ? - We have all been critical saying he over protects his fighters and matches them against opponents who they are unlikely to lose to ie Calzaghe/Manfredo Macca/Gunn - Q1 would you have done things differently? and Q2 do you think he is making better matches since he lost his exclusive contract with ITV and moved to Setanta? - Q3 Do you think he deserves his award?

Having his best fighters regulaly fighting in uncompetitive matches is damaging for the sport, its cousin to the ABC title situation which nearly killed the sport over here. Frank puts too much emphasis on the O and so do some of his fighters.

More boxers should take Hayes approach to the sport IMO, go out there test yourself and entertain the fans. Calzaghe/Manfredo and Macca/Gunn were the worst PR the sport has had over here since I can remember, £8m people tuned in at prime time to see that fiasco, it was akin to that bloke from Ratners telling the world his stock was cheap crap

[TJAY]

FW gets his fighters Maximum exposure low risk fights with high rewards.
It seems everyone is happy as long as they do it Franks way go against him and your not invited to the part anymore.

[chesh]

That card look sbetter in retrospect because of the fighters achievem,ents after that night.

In 1996, who was Michael Gomez?

Hamed was a star by that time and defending his WBO title. To put him on the same show as Benn-Collins and to import Winky - not a household name, but highly respected in the trade - to defend his title was quite remarkable. The equivalent show today would be something like Kahn, as world champ, defending his title, sharing top billing with Calzaghe-Froch/Woods, and bringing over Guzman to defend his title against Arthur on the undercard!