Newly Discovered Bouts for Well-Knowns

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 01 Jan 2002, 17:07

I thought it might be useful to have a thread dedicated to what may be newly-discovered bouts of famous boxers. By posting those here, people can debate whether these are phantoms, duplicates, or simply belong to another boxer with the same or similar name. And I don't mean records that are obviously incomplete, but ones where they are considered pretty much complete.

I have found a few bouts that were missing from the records of well-known, established boxers - some of which have been locked because they were considered complete. Long ago I unearthed an old Paul Berlenbach bout that apparently was not contained in any record book. (Yeah, I'm tooting my horn, but I was kinda proud of that.):
http://www.boxrec.com/phpBB/viewtopic.p ... 85&forum=5

I have found a few others.

So here's another new one: Today I came across a 12/30/1927 D-10 in Scranton between Jimmy Goodrich of Buffalo and Mike Chapin of Scranton. The J.G in BoxRec is from the same era, weight division and hometown. His record is locked. I am about to unlock it and enter this new bout, but will wait until people comment on whether it in fact belongs.

Goodrich: http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=41689

Ric · Post by **Ric** » 01 Jan 2002, 17:13

BTW: Mike. Not to worry. I now know that the Ridgewood Grove Sporting Club was on
Center Street in Brooklyn, not Queens, thanks to you.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 08 Jan 2002, 18:56

Looks reasonable to me, especailly if it is a contemporary source ie. a newspaper.

Ric · Post by **Ric** » 08 Jan 2002, 20:02

Colin & Mike DeLisa, Did you also see my earlier post in the old Forum regarding Billy Petrolle and Tiger Flowers? I think I found a Flowers bout not mentioned elsewhere - at least not in the CBZ record.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 09 Jan 2002, 12:04

Hi -- This is DeLisa -- I am still in Venezuela so I don´t have access to my archives -- when I ge back in the next 10 days or so I will review. Did you give a source?

Best, Mike

[email protected]

Ric · Post by **Ric** » 10 Jan 2002, 12:09

Hi, Mike. My source is not THAT authoritative. It's a microfilm of a contemporary newspaper, THE EVERETT DAILY HERALD, from up here near Seattle. It would be nice to double-check THE NEW YORK TIMES and/or a paper from where the bout(s) allegedly took place.

BTW: I came across an EDH newspaper article that reported Panama Al Brown's opponent on April 10, 1928 was a certain STEVE Nugent. BoxRec and CBZ record today record Brown's opponent that day as being EDDIE Nugent.

The BoxRec database has many other bouts for a bantamweight Steve Nugent, but there are no other bouts whatsoever for Eddie Nugent beyond the one he allegedly had with Al Brown that BoxRec currently lists.

Thus, one might conclude, Steve Nugent was actually the boxer Al Brown fought that day, and not Eddie Nugent.

Can anyone clarify?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ric on 2002-01-19 05:22 ]</font>

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 18 Jan 2002, 15:45

Found this one the other day in the EVERETT DAILY HERALD:
Leo Lomski W-10 Georgie Smith @ New York, July 23, 1928.
Ric

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 19 Jan 2002, 02:41

The Lomski - Smith bout is a go. I have a copy of Lomski's record from the 1941 RRB (the first one) and this is listed. I will enter the rest of his record in the next few days. Colin.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 19 Jan 2002, 03:08

All three of the missing dated bouts !!! I just looked at our database record - pretty complete. A few differences which I will try and find contemporary reports for.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 19 Jan 2002, 12:03

Colin, our Lomski record came pretty much from, and courtesy of, Mike DeLisa. He will be pleased to learn of any new Lomski bouts he doesn't have, I am sure. Ric

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 20 Jan 2002, 23:03

The EVERETT DAILY HERALD newspaper of May 7, 1925 reported a May 6 Kid Norfolk KO-5 Ray Pelkey bout at Oakland, California. A previously-unrecorded bout? Can anyone confirm this? Ric

Ric · Post by **Ric** » 21 Jan 2002, 20:25

I found a second Kid Norfolk bout: W-12 Jack Reddick at Moose Jaw, Canada, 05/25/1925

And a 3rd: Norfolk W-10 Frank Farmer @ Portland, Oregon, 06/01/1925.

BTW: Is there a difference between Kid Norfolk and Young Kid Norfolk. We have a YKN who fought Battling Siki 01/14/1924, abd CBZ says this was Kid Norfolk, even though in Siki's record they have been Young Norfolk and Kid Norfolk:
http://cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/siki-b.htm
http://cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/norfolk.htm

Also, we have a Martin Burke ND Floyd Johnson May 14, 1925. A newspaper article I saw the other day said that Burke won the referee's (versus newspaper) decision after 15 rounds. Is this still a ND or a W-15?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ric on 2002-01-22 01:22 ]</font>

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 22 Jan 2002, 07:33

Ric - The 1971 RRB has Kid Norfolk's record in it. The three fights (Pelky, Reddick, Farmer) are listed with the date, place and result you indicated.
There is no 1924 fight against Battling Siki listed. As Norfolk would then have been almost 31 I doubt he would have been listed as Young Kid Norfolk, I would suggest this was another fighter.
Colin

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 22 Jan 2002, 12:21

Colin, if you read CBZ's story on Norfolk, it is said that one of his last bouts was with Siki. As I read it, it looks like they are talking about Norfolk, but in CBZ's Siki record, he is listed as "Young"Norfolk. Perhaps when Mike DeLisa returns from Venezuela he can shed some light on this for us. Ric

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 22 Jan 2002, 12:49

The 1923 bout with Siki was with Kid Norfolk-the 1924 bout was with Battling Norfolk--two different fighters. Battling Norfolk was from Memphis and a fair fighter. He KO'd George Godfrey and held Tiger Flowers to a draw in 1922.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 22 Jan 2002, 18:48

That looks like the answer. The 1971 RRB (in Norfolk's record) and the 1924 World Almanac both have the Siki bout for 20 Nov 1923, listing Norfolk as Kid Norfolk. The 1981 RRB in Siki's record gives the Nov 1923 bout as against Kid Norfolk and the 1924 bout as against Young Norfolk. I would think the latter should be listed as Young Kid Norfolk, alias Battling Norfork.
Colin

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 24 Jan 2002, 19:48

Re Siki vs Young Norfolk on the CBZ -- Kevin Smith confirms this was Battling Norfolk.

Mike DeLisa