Reasons why Team USA is not as good as they can be

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 07 Jan 2008, 14:29

I do not know how much preasure, if any is put on parents to agree to comply

According to the documentary I saw last year, the pressure is put on the parents for the boxers to do well in national competitions. In some cases, it determines where and how they live.

squarering · Post by **squarering** » 07 Jan 2008, 14:53

Maybe it would work here.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 07 Jan 2008, 17:54

Maybe it would work here.

You should definitely be in show biz!

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 08 Jan 2008, 12:44

I'm sure if some rich benefactor wanted to increase the number of boxers, he or she could. Donate a bunch of money to coaches willing to open new gym, donate money to keep existing gyms open, donate money to give shirts, jackets, jogging suits, etc to boxers who have success at the gyms. Donate money so the gyms can afford to travel more often and put on more shows. Donate money to market the shows and tournaments and promote the sport in general. The benefactor could donate money to set up scholarship funds so that any deserving boxer who works hard can get assistance with going to college. Donate more money so that the boxers and coaches can get their expenses paid to go to training camps and coaches clinics. More money to offer more international trips. More money to get amateur boxing back on network TV. More money to do more. Maybe then it will snowball and more gyms will open, kids will want to box, parents will see more benefits with boxing and encourage their kids to box. Right now many parents discourage their kids and try to sway them away from boxing. Oh, yes, this could work. Now where is that benevolent benefactor. Yes he or she has to be benevolent and can't want anything in return, except to see the sport flourish.

Hal, how deep are your pockets? Mel? Anyone?

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 08 Jan 2008, 14:39

Unfortunately USAB got rid of A2P. And Rick and I can't afford to retire, let alone benefact anyone outside of ourselves! Now - if I win the lottery..........

Yes, I would donate to USAB but not carte blanche - there would most definitely be strings.

More money to get amateur boxing back on network TV.

I honestly don't think it's a money thing - there just isn't any interest and the networks can't sell it to advertisers so it's not profitable for them.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 08 Jan 2008, 15:20

When you win the lottery, think about donating to gyms, tournaments, scholarships, etc. USAB might not be the way to go. The top down method or "trickle-down economics" as Reagan called it has not seemed to work for amateur boxing. Getting more interest through scholarships, stipends, travel, big tournaments and marketing is the way to go. More interest will drive more kids and adults into the sport which will make a demand for more gyms and create more boxers. More boxers=more interest and more fans. At that point, we could start to see some TV coverage. Boxing Econ 101. Anyone want to sign up?

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 08 Jan 2008, 15:26

squarering wrote:Class, I think it's hard to compare Cuba's recuiting method to the USA"s. Cuba's government recruites at the elementary school level and test kids on things like balance, hand eye coordination, speed ect. If they are top performers, the government will send them to highly structured programs to advance in one of the sports they consider important, boxing, soccer, power lifting, baseball ect. I do not know how much preasure, if any is put on parents to agree to comply. A very high priority is put on the importance of performance in these sports by the goverment, I would call this the highest form of marketing. I would love to be able to recuite kids right out of schools, and it is happening is some places, but not like Cuba does it. Also, I have never heard of a US boxer defecting when they went out of country.

Squarering

Didnt the USA cream Russia and Cuba in the 1976 Olympics ?
(why is that ?)

I dont think the USA needs to use the methods of Cuba to improve their AM Olympic boxing record
(infact i know it)

Gold medals are won by AM gyms and nothing besides

Tell me, do you believe,Sugar Ray Leonard,Leon Spinks,Meldrick Taylor,Howard Davis,Sweet Pea would be playing in the NBA and NFL in 2008 ?

Ha,ha what i joke, eh son
(what do you say to that ?)

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 08 Jan 2008, 15:46

classboxer - if you have all the answers and they are so easy, start implementing them. By your answers, I hope you have experience running a gym and coaching boxers. You can also get involved in your LBC governance and running local and national tournaments. With your knowledge, amateur boxing will be in good hands. I can't wait to see thousands of fans at all the local boxing shows and tens of thousands at the US Championships. Oh wait, you better tell USAB to move the site of the US Championships because the current location will only hold a few hundred people.

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 08 Jan 2008, 16:36

Dennis wrote:classboxer - if you have all the answers and they are so easy, start implementing them. By your answers, I hope you have experience running a gym and coaching boxers. You can also get involved in your LBC governance and running local and national tournaments. With your knowledge, amateur boxing will be in good hands. I can't wait to see thousands of fans at all the local boxing shows and tens of thousands at the US Championships. Oh wait, you better tell USAB to move the site of the US Championships because the current location will only hold a few hundred people.

Yeah i used to box as an AM,for Sammy Ferris in UK Redditch
(UK midlands AM boxers know Sammy Ferris ask the Birmingham crew on boxrec)

IN Birmingham UK were i live,AM boxing is doing just fine,but hey more AM gyms would help
(dont deny reality)

You presume i am a punk Dennis,fair enough, this is the internet and anyone can mouth of,thats not were i am coming from.

I do not want to argue with you Dennis,for example, i know, that if only 6 AM gyms existed in the USA and you had all the USA media promoting them

Damn, 6 USA AM gyms would be a Joke to the USA AM system to the AM system that thrived in the USA early 1970s

CNN,MTV and all US channels can promote AM gyms but fewer AM gyms is a very small fishing net,as shown by USA AM results

Show me more AM gyms in the USA and i will show you more quality WORLD CLASS AMS

Unless Dennis, you are one of these loons that think that Meldrick Taylor,Howard Davis,Leon Spinks would be playing in the NFL/NBA in 2008
( dont make me laugh at you)

btw

Dennis

Maybe, i should be in charge of USA AM boxing

(i could do a better job)

Put a word in for me

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 08 Jan 2008, 16:41

Did you know ?

To be the NO1 of a US AM division in the 1970s/60s

could be harder than winning an Olympic Gold medal

ask the Greats like Sugar Ray Leonard

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 08 Jan 2008, 17:12

Ahhhh - a voice from Over The Pond and, obviously, an expert on amateur boxing in the U.S.

Can you please tell me how many registered gyms we have in the U.S. and compare that to the number we had before all the gyms you say have closed, bringing about the demise of amateur boxing in America?

By the way, do you also post at warriorboxing.com???

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 08 Jan 2008, 17:41

boxmel wrote:Ahhhh - a voice from Over The Pond and, obviously, an expert on amateur boxing in the U.S.

Can you please tell me how many registered gyms we have in the U.S. and compare that to the number we had before all the gyms you say have closed, bringing about the demise of amateur boxing in America?

By the way, do you also post at warriorboxing.com???

I dont have the stats,i am on a vista PC and lost many files by switching,i am moving from Vista anyway,Vista has a back door and Nasa holds the key

Registered AM boxers dont show the full picture,for example, did the USA AM system have women registered AMs in the 70s ?

Was it YOU ?

Boxmel ? that posted on this thread that 111 US AM women boxers have entered the New York Golden gloves this year ?

You see, a lot of AM gyms have noticed that a women AM can win the Golden Gloves by winning 1 fight,sort of degrades the comp dont you think

There are less AM gyms in the USA in 2008,although Dennis has posted a thread about kids in the bronx being taught to box,do this mean that these kids in the Bronx will enter AM comps ?

Not really,inner city programs are important though

btw

Never been to warriorboxing.com

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 08 Jan 2008, 17:46

Does anyone agree that Ray Leonard and Mike Tyson would be playing in the NBA in 2007 ?

Does anyone TRULY believe that Meldrick Taylor,Howard Davis would make it in the NFL ?

LOL<LOL<LOL

Thats what Burt Sugar thinks

Ha,ha

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 08 Jan 2008, 17:47

classboxer wrote:Does anyone agree that Ray Leonard and Mike Tyson would be playing in the NBA in 2007 ?

Does anyone TRULY believe that Meldrick Taylor,Howard Davis would make it in the NFL ?

LOL<LOL<LOL

Thats what Burt Sugar thinks

Ha,ha

Less AM gyms = less talent

ask Nigeria with AM gyms opening who had no AM gyms in the 60s

squarering · Post by **squarering** » 08 Jan 2008, 17:57

Dennis, My pocket are plenty deep, now that I have dug everything out of them and put it in boxing. Get me the phone number of that guy you were talking about. Class, where would Pernell , Meldrick and the rest be if they were starting out right now? That's impossible to answer cause times are different. They could be sitting with an Ipod stuck in thier ear and spending hours with an X-box. Then again, the kids at the top of this sport are the Taylors and Davis'.

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 08 Jan 2008, 18:13

squarering wrote:Dennis, My pocket are plenty deep, now that I have dug everything out of them and put it in boxing. Get me the phone number of that guy you were talking about. Class, where would Pernell , Meldrick and the rest be if they were starting out right now? That's impossible to answer cause times are different. They could be sitting with an Ipod stuck in thier ear and spending hours with an X-box. Then again, the kids at the top of this sport are the Taylors and Davis'.

Yeah but Squarering, do you agree with Burt Sugars view on all the US boxing talent being in the NFL/NBA in 2008 ?
(remember Burt is a media boxing expert ROLF)

I mean,Meldrick taylor,Howard Davis,Ray Leonard are a bit small for the NFL/NBA dont you think ?

Were have the US AM olymic champions gone to ?

btw

Less AM gyms = less talent

Great boxers do not need to come from poverty,that is media braiwashing,ask Ali
( the media is full of LIES)

ask Kelly Pavlik

squarering · Post by **squarering** » 08 Jan 2008, 18:18

Class, I am curious if you do or have done, any boxing, coaching or officiating. If not, is it something that you might consider. I think that someone with your interest in the sport could be an asset to it. There is no arguing with you about less gyms =less boxer= less talant. And if you are correct with you information about other countries opening more am gyms. you are obviously following the sport and possibly care about the sport enough to want to help. All the bitching and moaning we do on this site might make us feel better for a few minutes but doesn't change anything. On USA Boxing they had a brief post about 1.8 million dollars from the foundation to be used to help amateur boxing. The post was taken down shortly after it went up and may come back out this week. I hope that this money helps all of us in some way.

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 08 Jan 2008, 18:18

The media drum it in to our heads that boxers come from poverty ?

Can someone convince me ? Kelly Pavlik/Ali/Ray Leonard has come from poverty ?

I know there is more poverty in Brazil

Disagree with that,you disagee with reality

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 08 Jan 2008, 18:25

squarering wrote:Class, I am curious if you do or have done, any boxing, coaching or officiating. If not, is it something that you might consider. I think that someone with your interest in the sport could be an asset to it. There is no arguing with you about less gyms =less boxer= less talant. And if you are correct with you information about other countries opening more am gyms. you are obviously following the sport and possibly care about the sport enough to want to help. All the bitching and moaning we do on this site might make us feel better for a few minutes but doesn't change anything. On USA Boxing they had a brief post about 1.8 million dollars from the foundation to be used to help amateur boxing. The post was taken down shortly after it went up and may come back out this week. I hope that this money helps all of us in some way.

Squarering

well i aint done no coaching but i did have a dream to open an AM gym,but hey i dont fancy getting sued by the insurance laws
(do you blame me ?)

Anyway, there is a bloody revolution coming in the USA ,so thats another matter,the USA has been owned in basketball,boxing and the fall of the US Dollar,all of this is by design and dont you forget it

My main reason for posting on this thread is giving the reason for the decline of the USA AM boxing

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 08 Jan 2008, 20:57

My main reason for posting on this thread is giving the reason for the decline of the USA AM boxing

Which, for the most part, has not made any sense nor have you backed up your reasons with facts and figures. Ummmm - do your parents know you're on their computer?

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 08 Jan 2008, 20:59

classboxer wrote:
squarering wrote:Class, I am curious if you do or have done, any boxing, coaching or officiating. If not, is it something that you might consider. I think that someone with your interest in the sport could be an asset to it. There is no arguing with you about less gyms =less boxer= less talant. And if you are correct with you information about other countries opening more am gyms. you are obviously following the sport and possibly care about the sport enough to want to help. All the bitching and moaning we do on this site might make us feel better for a few minutes but doesn't change anything. On USA Boxing they had a brief post about 1.8 million dollars from the foundation to be used to help amateur boxing. The post was taken down shortly after it went up and may come back out this week. I hope that this money helps all of us in some way.
Squarering

well i aint done no coaching but i did have a dream to open an AM gym,but hey i dont fancy getting sued by the insurance laws
(do you blame me ?)

Anyway, there is a bloody revolution coming in the USA ,so thats another matter,the USA has been owned in basketball,boxing and the fall of the US Dollar,all of this is by design and dont you forget it

My main reason for posting on this thread is giving the reason for the decline of the USA AM boxing

But you're not American, are you? Have you ever even boxed in the US?

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 08 Jan 2008, 21:45

Kolya wrote:
But you're not American, are you? Have you ever even boxed in the US?

What difference does that make,the Truth still stands,maybe you agree that Burt Sugar is right that Meldrick Taylor would be playing in the NFL right now

Less AM gyms = less Talent and that is the answer to this thread title even if you live in the Congo,Finland or Brazil,less AM gyms = less talent

btw

confused are we ?

simpletons cant understand reality

why is that ?

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 08 Jan 2008, 21:55

Ok, I just wanted to make sure I was clear that someone from the UK was telling me, both an athlete and official in USA Boxing, how our amateur system works. That's kind of funny, because there was awesome turnout this weekend for our Regional Silver Gloves in Great Falls (and I live in a state that isn't a huge boxing state; hell, the entire region isn't as busy as where Boxmel is from). We had a boxer who went to the Olympic Trials box, and the crowd was absolutely electric for 2 of our 15-16 year old boxers who both won and advanced to National Silver Gloves. I think you could have fooled any of the participants or those in attendance this weekend if you said amateur boxing was doing badly in the US.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 08 Jan 2008, 22:50

Kolya, Class is just pulling our chain - maybe it's time we started ignoring his inane comments and posturing as an amateur expert. Sounds like he never got over the Revolution.

He might want to question why Canada isn't/doesn't do as well, too. They have 231 gyms in the entire country, 131 more than we have in the Los Angeles area. Maybe their amateur gyms are closing, too?

Did you know that the U.S. was ranked #2 at the World Championships, with Russia #1? Yes, I know Cuba wasn't there - but still. England came in #6. Canada was ranked #26 (8 boxers).

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 08 Jan 2008, 23:26

Mel - he keeps talking about Burt Sugar talking about boxers going to the NFL and NBA. I have heard others say this too, but it is used to explain the demise of US Heavyweights. Most NFL players weigh more than 200# which is a professional HW. NBA - many weigh more than 200#.

I don't buy this excuse. The NFL and NBA existed in the 70's and 80's when the HW division in the US was strong. What changed? The former Soviet Union broke apart and now many of its top amateurs turn pro and do very well in the pros. Also, other countries are training boxers that develop into top pros. America - boxing isn't as popular.

BTW - Ali was one of the greatest HW boxers of all time. He was 6'3" and over 200#. According to CLASS if Ali was a young man today he would be in the NBA or NFL. I doubt it.