OT - Sam Allardyce

Croydon1 · Post by **Croydon1** » 09 Jan 2008, 21:01

Get Stevie Mac In!!!

Go on geordies... you know it makes sense

King Tubby · Post by **King Tubby** » 09 Jan 2008, 21:10

It's a myth about their supporters. Always moaning, getting managers sacked. They think they're a big club but they're not. Not as well supported as Chelsea through history, and look how much stick Chelsea get from no-nothing fans: 'Where were you when you were..blah, blah'. I remember them getting gates of 10,000.

http://www.nufc.com/html/attendance-all-time.html

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 09 Jan 2008, 21:12

Yes, the United board were very patient with Ferguson. He had a decent squad - finished 2nd in 1988 and I think would have got the sack in todays climate in 1990 (despite the Cup win). Cause it did seem like he lost the dressing room at one stage.

Matt W · Post by **Matt W** » 10 Jan 2008, 04:39

There seems to be an attitude of entitlement to success with Newcastle, similar to England.

Wax On · Post by **Wax On** » 10 Jan 2008, 05:55

King Tubby wrote:It's a myth about their supporters. Always moaning, getting managers sacked. They think they're a big club but they're not. Not as well supported as Chelsea through history, and look how much stick Chelsea get from no-nothing fans: 'Where were you when you were..blah, blah'. I remember them getting gates of 10,000.

http://www.nufc.com/html/attendance-all-time.html

Spot on, in the days just before Keegan, they had less than 10,000 on a regular basis.

They had a few good years under him and then all of a sudden think they have a devine right to be a success / table topping club. They've not backed a manager since Keegan, and IMO have just lost the guy who would have finally sorted out all their problems.

I like the Geordie people, but I'm glad this ridiculous sacking has finally started to dispel the myth in most quarters about Newcastle having the best fans and deserving success more than any other club.

It's utter b0llocks. Almost as bad as the Merseyside derby being known as the 'Family derby' or scousers being known for their excellent wit. They've segregated the fans cause they want to rip each others heads off, not because all seater stadia meant the ticketing became more difficult, and they're more famous for being a bunch of robbers!!

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 10 Jan 2008, 05:56

I think this from the fans web site just about sums things up...

One should never be surprised by anything that happens on Barrack Road, save for the appearance of an open top bus carrying a trophy festooned in black & white ribbons.

However we are struggling to recall when we last parted company with a manager whose name was sung in what proved to be his final game in charge. Keegan, probably.

It's important though to place on record the profound depression and disillusionment that had set in amongst many of our hard-core supporters - and we're not talking about message board jockeys or serial 606 texters here.

Fans known to us for many years were dropping by the wayside, or even contemplating packing in and/or picking their games.

When that sort of indifference starts to become the norm, alarm bells start ringing - empty seats don't cheer or boo.

Many of those people were still there on Sunday though, still supporting their team - and cheering for Allardyce.

That's what we do. We're not political to the same extent as the fans of some other teams - we can't even organise a supporters club.

The Boxing Day defeat at Wigan saw the infamous "we're shit and we're sick of it" chant, but for every fan joining in with that, others bit their lips or abandoned hope and refused to return while we remain a football-free zone.

Forget all of this twaddle about pressure and expectation: no slack-jawed ex-player or self-important rag writer can tell those people travelling the length of the country to be patient in the face of what they are seeing.

Winning at Fulham, drawing against Derby, losing at Wigan - all unwatchable, regardless of the final score.

Allardyce hasn't gone purely because of results, but because of the lifeless performances - in common parlance he seemed to have lost the dressing room, if he ever had it - Butt's "United we stand" comments notwithstanding.

The issue that vexes us is why dump him now - why not after Wigan?

Is there a semblance of a plan? A change in circumstance with our preferred candidate in the last few hours?

Can it really be as simple as Ashley being booked to go away on his jollies and returning to see that excuse for a performance from behind the goal on Sunday?

Or is this an off-the-cuff decision, a whim of the type that has seen Ashley attract criticism from the stock market community for his unpredictability in business dealings?

Those experts wittering on about the great managers being given time elsewhere that they wouldn't get on Tyneside conveniently ignore the sheer unadulterated bloody rubbish that has been served up by his players - not to mention the holes in his squad last Sunday.

While Milner was genuinely ill and Carr lacking match fitness, suspicions remain that others made themselves unavailable, including some of the African Nations-bound contingent. Shola of course will be gutted by Sam going.

Opinion will remain divided on whether Allardyce would have "got it right" eventually - or we'd have sunk still further away from the business end of the table.

But this isn't Ebbsfleet United, someone ultimately has to the run the damn thing and take major decisions, unless we appoint Simon Cowell and turn the whole thing into a premium rate phoneline extravaganza.....

For Mort and Ashley this is the point that they draw a line under their first seven months, having overseen much positive change off the field.

However they have watched their initial policy of leaving the previously-appointed man in post undo some of that good work by providing sub-standard product to sell.

Another link with the previous administration is severed then - and it's the last major one.

Whoever takes the job now has a fantastic opportunity to rewrite history - whilst trying to succeed where a galaxy of familiar footballing names have ultimately failed.

It's a sad fact that the identity of our new manager will at least partly dictate how much rope he's given by the press - both national and local.

On a positive note though, he'll probably speak to the BBC, an ongoing issue which overshadowed the whole of the Allardyce administration - certainly the regular appearances of Nigel Pearson did Sam no favours.

Another element that has to be faced is the Barton situation - that could of course be taken from the new man's burden by being resolved before he's appointed.

Is this mob rule?

If so, who in their right mind would take this club on - knowing as they do that their future rests on the whim of a volatile crowd.

As Allardyce himself said though, it's a results business and the performances of the Newcastle players have ultimately put Ashley and Mort in a place where they even considered a change of manager.

Underachieving on an epic scale - that could be our motto

el_grande_mauro_mina · Post by **el_grande_mauro_mina** » 10 Jan 2008, 06:45

I never understood why Allardyce was hired by Newcastle, Newcastle still have pretensions of playing good football and that was never going to happen under Allerdyce.

He is a good manager for a certain kind of football which is long ball, roughhouse football. The kind of crap Reading play at the moment.

Is Martin Jol still down the job centre? I would sign Jol like a shot! Now thats is a class manager who has been treated like crap!

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 10 Jan 2008, 08:49

jol could do well at newcastle

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 10 Jan 2008, 08:52

Paul Ince not in the running according to the bookies - that was my tip. He seems to be a much talked about manager.

Although of the favourites - I think Hughes might take it. Don't think all is entirely well there.... really surprised he sold one of his favourites in Savage (was his arms tied in that one?).

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 10 Jan 2008, 09:28

Jol is just the type of media friendly, happy go lucky nearly man that will suit Newcastle.

Its easy to forget he spent SHIT loads to get Spurs 5th, and had a revolving door of players. Seriously, did he ever stop buying midfielders at one point?

He ended up with a team, despite spending millions on a cast of thousands that never made the grade.

To a large extent, his first choice XI was the one he inherited wasn't it?

Robinson-King-Jenas-Keane

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 10 Jan 2008, 09:40

Why do all the clubs get linked with the same names, They should look outside at how clubs as a whole are run and play there football.

I'm a Chelsea fan, and who really had heard of Grant before he became manager. and seems to be doing a good job there. IMO

Arsene Wenger was managing in Japan's J-League before coming Arsenal's manager.

Newcastle may as well take a chance on an outsider, they always try and get the man the fans want, which doesn't work.

Is the Chairman to close to the fans?

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 10 Jan 2008, 09:46

I dont think the fans wanted Souness or Roeder.

As a newcastle fan I'd like to see someone who's managed at the top level come in and do the job, rather thna someone who's managed at a mediocre level but appears to mayeb have the potential for the higher level.

Gus Hiddink would be my choice. Problem is Ashley has allegedly said it'll be a british manager who is currently with a club (ina roundabout way).

Personally i dont want harry redknapp.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 10 Jan 2008, 09:58

I dont think Hughes would take it. Though Blackburn are close to their full potential.

Harry would consider it, as financially it would be his first chance to genuinely compete. Not that he's been short of money at Pompey second time around.

Has anyone mentioned wee Gordon Strachan?

Mensa07 · Post by **Mensa07** » 10 Jan 2008, 10:01

give Keegan another crack at it, it'll be entertaining at the very least.

King Tubby · Post by **King Tubby** » 10 Jan 2008, 10:03

Wax On wrote:
King Tubby wrote:It's a myth about their supporters. Always moaning, getting managers sacked. They think they're a big club but they're not. Not as well supported as Chelsea through history, and look how much stick Chelsea get from no-nothing fans: 'Where were you when you were..blah, blah'. I remember them getting gates of 10,000.

http://www.nufc.com/html/attendance-all-time.html
Spot on, in the days just before Keegan, they had less than 10,000 on a regular basis.

They had a few good years under him and then all of a sudden think they have a devine right to be a success / table topping club. They've not backed a manager since Keegan, and IMO have just lost the guy who would have finally sorted out all their problems.

I like the Geordie people, but I'm glad this ridiculous sacking has finally started to dispel the myth in most quarters about Newcastle having the best fans and deserving success more than any other club.

It's utter b0llocks. Almost as bad as the Merseyside derby being known as the 'Family derby' or scousers being known for their excellent wit. They've segregated the fans cause they want to rip each others heads off, not because all seater stadia meant the ticketing became more difficult, and they're more famous for being a bunch of robbers!!

Spot on Wax on. Scousers is another myth. Press are too scared to criticise them, and a lot of today's writers are Liverpool fans who started following them because they were winning everything. Anyone who goes to football knows they're the worst set of fans in the country.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 10 Jan 2008, 10:28

Everton more so that Liverpool, from experience.

As for "devine right to win something" - when your club has spent more than anyone except chelsea (i think) you'd be hoping for some success, if onyl a coca cola trinket. 50,000 every week should have something to cheer about, we look more unlikely to win something now thatn we have since Keegan arrived.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 10 Jan 2008, 11:53

Its laughable that they keep calling for Shearer to take over, what has he ever done as a manager, ....interesting that he's now turned the job down, shame he couldnt have done it earlier and taken some pressure off Sam. I thought it was a scandal the way Newcastle treated Bobby Robson and its rather ironic that they havent done so well since he was given the push.
I wonder what the fans will sing after their team is relegated!....

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 10 Jan 2008, 11:57

The fans and board certainly arent the brightest of sparks.... you cant take on a new manager and expect him to work wonders in a matter of months, while they continue going through managers like a 3 yearold does nappies they'll continue to go down, and serves them right too!... never has a team more deserved to go down since Leeds... 8)

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 10 Jan 2008, 12:00

"deserve to go down" - how so? fat fred made a right hash of things at the club, and dastardly doug was fleecing it left right and cetre for his own ends. Ashley has now come in to stabalise things and whilst his public outings are too frequent for my liking he should be the one given time to turn the club around. Bad board descisions, bad signings, bad appointments and managers wasting money has been our downfall.

Mario · Post by **Mario** » 10 Jan 2008, 12:13

I'd be quite happy if we got Harry Redknapp in, i think he'd do a good job if he was given a chance with a bit of money to spend. I just hope we dont get Mark Hughes in, i've never really liked the way his team plays, he just seems to sign big hard bastards to kick teams off the field (with the exception of Bentley and Pedersen).

Ultimately it was the fans and press who got sam the sack and i dont think they'll ever learn to be patient enough. I dont think Ashley ever really wanted Allardyce though and once he's got his own man in he'll be given time to build a squad.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 10 Jan 2008, 12:37

Mario wrote:I'd be quite happy if we got Harry Redknapp in, i think he'd do a good job if he was given a chance with a bit of money to spend. I just hope we dont get Mark Hughes in, i've never really liked the way his team plays, he just seems to sign big hard bastards to kick teams off the field (with the exception of Bentley and Pedersen).

Ultimately it was the fans and press who got sam the sack and i dont think they'll ever learn to be patient enough. I dont think Ashley ever really wanted Allardyce though and once he's got his own man in he'll be given time to build a squad.

Wales played some nice stuff under him though - although when qualification appeared to be in the bag he did lose the plot a bit and get predictable (pump it to fatty Hartson to lose the ball).

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 10 Jan 2008, 12:42

Wales wrote:I dont think the fans wanted Souness or Roeder.

As a newcastle fan I'd like to see someone who's managed at the top level come in and do the job, rather thna someone who's managed at a mediocre level but appears to mayeb have the potential for the higher level.

Gus Hiddink would be my choice. Problem is Ashley has allegedly said it'll be a british manager who is currently with a club (ina roundabout way).

Personally i dont want harry redknapp.

Not sure on Roeder - didn't originally when it was supposed to be a temporary position. Roeder said he didn't want.... Did well, and the fans seemed to try and keep him there.

Perhaps though it might be important consideration that Shearer was Roeder's number 2... when Shearer left, Newcastle under Roeder went to pot.

But then Roeder at West Ham had a good honeymoon period.

Matt W · Post by **Matt W** » 10 Jan 2008, 12:44

The only people that bang on about being a 'big club' are those that don't win anything. It's success that matters.

Harry Redknapp would go the same way as Allardyce IMO. If people in the game felt he was capable of winning major honours with a big club then surely he'd have had his chance by now?

And what were Newcastle expecting when they appointed Allardyce? If they expected instant success they were deluded, if not why sack him now without giving him time to make his mark?

Matt W · Post by **Matt W** » 10 Jan 2008, 12:58

This Ashley guy is taking his direction from fat guys who think wearing no shirt in the freezing cold is somehow an example of their insight and intelligence.

This is Newcastle fans to a tee

states · Post by **states** » 10 Jan 2008, 13:01

Matt W wrote: And what were Newcastle expecting when they appointed Allardyce? If they expected instant success they were deluded, if not why sack him now without giving him time to make his mark?

In fairness, Allardyce was appointed by the previous owners. Ashley may never have wanted him. Let's see how long the next guy gets though.....

OT - Sam Allardyce

Re: OT - Sam Allardyce