The Greatest Performance that ended in DEFEAT

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 10 Jan 2008, 11:05

Billy Conn when he tried to take the heavyweight crown from Joe Louis. Was this one the best performance that ended in defeat?

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 10 Jan 2008, 11:13

That's a good one. I'm sure a lot of different types of fights could fit in here, robberies, "either-way" type fights, and the victims of come-from-behind victories (KO or otherwise).

Chavez-Taylor could be a good example. Taylor stood right in front of one of the most devestating fighters ever and took a ton of punishment while at the same time creating masterful combinations with incredible speed, accuracy, and power themselves. He simply just fell apart at the end under the pressure and so much damage.

Corrales-Castillo is a great example as well. Castillo was clearly ahead after the second 10th round knockdown and was on his way to winning their war of attrition before he got stopped himself.

Marquez-Barrera was a great fight imo and I thought Barrera could've won it had the 7th round knockdown been counted and had Nady called the KD in time. Barrera never stopped throwing and accounted himself extremely well. The first two Barrera-Morales fights fit this mold well also.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 10 Jan 2008, 11:20

Herol Graham - Julian Jackson

Jackson was being totally outclassed and then boom!

Hearns against anyone who beat him. Tommy always went down figthing.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 10 Jan 2008, 11:31

Great thread;

Ken Norton vs Larry Holmes: Norton's late rally was truly incredible

Bazooka Limon vs Bobby Chacon in their 4th fight.

Barney Ross v Jimmy McLarnin in their rematch

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 10 Jan 2008, 12:09

Terry D wrote:Herol Graham is 100% to blame. Blazing with your hands down in front of Jackson is plain daft!

Maybe, but Jackson had one eye almost clsoed. Graham had totally outclassed him until that punch.

That's what makes boxing so great though.

nobudius · Post by **nobudius** » 10 Jan 2008, 12:32

One of my favorite performances by a fighter on the losing end is Eddie Cotton against Jose Torres. Terrfic showing from a grizzled vet trying to take the title away-Cotton also had some of the longest arms I've seen on film.

Another one is Ezzard Charles against Rocky in their first meeting.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 10 Jan 2008, 12:52

nobudius wrote:One of my favorite performances by a fighter on the losing end is Eddie Cotton against Jose Torres. Terrfic showing from a grizzled vet trying to take the title away-Cotton also had some of the longest arms I've seen on film.

Another one is Ezzard Charles against Rocky in their first meeting.

Two fine examples. Many think Cotton won that one.

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 10 Jan 2008, 13:20

Ezzard wrote:
nobudius wrote:One of my favorite performances by a fighter on the losing end is Eddie Cotton against Jose Torres. Terrfic showing from a grizzled vet trying to take the title away-Cotton also had some of the longest arms I've seen on film.

Another one is Ezzard Charles against Rocky in their first meeting.
Two fine examples. Many think Cotton won that one.

You can count me among those. Cotton was making Torres miss and countering beautifully all during the fight. I saw it live on black and white tv and could see that. I don't know what the judges were looking at. As I recall both announcers thought Cotton won.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 10 Jan 2008, 14:40

Some of these examples it's a shame someone had to lose. Norton's loss to Holme's may have been his personal best fight.

wsbuf · Post by **wsbuf** » 10 Jan 2008, 15:16

Arguello-Pryor I, Arguello threw everything at Pryor and stood toe to toe until the end.

nobudius · Post by **nobudius** » 10 Jan 2008, 15:31

Tomato-Can wrote: You can count me among those. Cotton was making Torres miss and countering beautifully all during the fight. I saw it live on black and white tv and could see that. I don't know what the judges were looking at. As I recall both announcers thought Cotton won.

I really like how Cotton picked up the pace after the first initial rounds. Torres won the early rounds, but Cotton began to really dictate the flow of the fight, & had him staggered on a few occasions.

Given his age for the fight(39), it was a masterful performance. I thought he had won as well.

I was also thinking about Famechon/Harada I, but that one may be more "controversial" ... & a "roberry".

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 10 Jan 2008, 19:47

Another one is Ezzard Charles against Rocky in their first meeting.

I cant believe nobody is debating this call. Rocky Marciano won that fight hands down rather easily, it wasnt even a close unaminous decision victory for Marciano. Nine rounds to five with one even on one card says alot, mind you. While it is true that it is/was one of the last (if not the last) great fight of Charles career...it wasn't anywhere near being one of Charles best fights, or competitive enough, in my mind anyways, to have been called one of the best performances that ended in a defeat.

If anything associated with Marciano should be considered so, would be the first fight with Jersey Joe Walcott, because THAT fight up until the knockout, was the finest, greatest, best performance of Walcott's career as a professional. Unfortunately for him, Marciano's right got to him first, and the rest is history.

Anyways, though not a 'loss' I'd have to say Sweet Pea Whitaker when he fought Julio Cesar Chavez back in 1993 was arguably the best match of Whitaker's career, and despite it being a controversial draw, it didn't one iota over shadow that masterful performance in the ring.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 10 Jan 2008, 20:05

Staggered that no one has mentioned it yet...

Ali-Frazier III - There will always be great performances in defeat, but to me personally, this one stands as the benchmark. He was ready to die in that ring before he conceded defeat. Futch wasn't going to let it happen. To a lesser extent, you could say the same about their first fight. Excellent effort from Ali.

Others that haven't previously been mentioned...

Louis-Walcott I

Robinson-Basilio II

Moore-Durelle I

Ellis-Patterson

Maxim-Patterson

Maxim-Robinson

Bowe-Holyfield I

Holyfield-Cooper

Benn-McClellan

Trinidad-Vargas

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 10 Jan 2008, 20:52

wsbuf wrote:Arguello-Pryor I, Arguello threw everything at Pryor and stood toe to toe until the end.

Good one

Fullmer-Basilio I

Morales-Barrera I

Ward-Gatti I

Robinson-Turpin II

nobudius · Post by **nobudius** » 10 Jan 2008, 21:13

HomicideHenry wrote:
I cant believe nobody is debating this call. Rocky Marciano won that fight hands down rather easily, it wasnt even a close unaminous decision victory for Marciano. Nine rounds to five with one even on one card says alot, mind you. While it is true that it is/was one of the last (if not the last) great fight of Charles career...it wasn't anywhere near being one of Charles best fights, or competitive enough, in my mind anyways, to have been called one of the best performances that ended in a defeat.

I said it was one of MY FAVORITES. Or I tried to. Nobody is saying what you are implying above(unless they want to).

I think you're taking it a bit too literally.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 10 Jan 2008, 21:41

I've brought this one up before,but Israel Vasquez's come from behind victory over Rafael Marquez was almost overshadowed by Rafa's brilliant display of boxing. Rematch March 1. See the second fight on YouTube.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 10 Jan 2008, 21:51

The first one wasn't bad either, Dagosd. I thought the stoppage against Marquez was premature, as did Bernstein.

My money's on Marquez for the decider, but we'll see.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 10 Jan 2008, 23:37

HomicideHenry wrote:
Another one is Ezzard Charles against Rocky in their first meeting.

If anything associated with Marciano should be considered so, would be the first fight with Jersey Joe Walcott, because THAT fight up until the knockout, was the finest, greatest, best performance of Walcott's career as a professional. Unfortunately for him, Marciano's right got to him first, and the rest is history.

.

I disagree. Walcott put forth one of his gutsiest and most entertaining performances of his career vs Rocky as he stood toe-to-toe with Marciano in the middle-late rounds, but he clearly looked a step slower than he'd looked vs Louis. Jersey Joe's best career performance was the first Louis fight IMO.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 10 Jan 2008, 23:46

Is it true that Louis-Walcott I no longer exists in it's entirety?

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 11 Jan 2008, 04:43

Thats a shame if it doesnt. I have only compressions of the fight. Those news reel type of deals.

When Walcott was at his best, he looked so good. Such an original fighter in the ring. His movement is so under appreciated by modern fans who see guys like Ray Leonard and think alot of what he did was of his own devices.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 11 Jan 2008, 05:00

Moorer Vs Foreman.

Tommy Morrison Vs Ray Mercer.

Terry Norris Vs Julian Jackson.

Jimmy Ellis Vs Earnie Shavers.

The last two both looked good, as short as it lasted until that punch....

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 11 Jan 2008, 12:01

Hey, I am just quoting Joe Louis on this, as he said Walcott got better with age, plus the fact that many 'experts' have said the Marciano fight was Walcott's best performance, up until he was knocked out. Sure Walcott-Louis was good too, but I think the reason why people think it was 'better' than the Marciano bout, is because it went the distance and Walcott was seemingly robbed against the Brown Bomber...rather than winning or almost winning the majority of the 12 rounds, only to get knocked out in the 13th.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 11 Jan 2008, 12:54

HomicideHenry wrote:Hey, I am just quoting Joe Louis on this, as he said Walcott got better with age, plus the fact that many 'experts' have said the Marciano fight was Walcott's best performance, up until he was knocked out. Sure Walcott-Louis was good too, but I think the reason why people think it was 'better' than the Marciano bout, is because it went the distance and Walcott was seemingly robbed against the Brown Bomber...rather than winning or almost winning the majority of the 12 rounds, only to get knocked out in the 13th.

The 'experts' are just guys waxing poetic. Walcott put his career together with good management at a late age, but it's physically impossible for a 38 year old to be better than he was at 34. And Walcott was already very experienced by the Louis fight.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 11 Jan 2008, 13:47

Walcott's peak could most likely be considered just prior to & during the Louis affairs. At this juncture in time, he was just a little slipperier more often than in later years. By the time of the first Marciano encounter, he was past his best (Despite what Marciano fans will tell you). However, it is worth noting he found some old form & whilst not at his true peak, he was better in that first meeting than he appeared in the previous two years.

This much, & one thing more --- the fight was no shut-out or anything resembling that. I have this fight from beginning to end on an old VHS tape. Walcott was getting the better of it, no question, but it was not the lopsided match it is often made out to be.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 11 Jan 2008, 17:30

Razor Ruddock was heroic in his 2 losses against Mike Tyson, particularly second time around