Reasons why Team USA is not as good as they can be

squarering · Post by **squarering** » 09 Jan 2008, 00:16

You got me class, for a while I thought I could twist your scattered comments into something that made sense. But that was assuming that you were trying to make sense. One minute you bust the USA AM system with out backing up you comments with hard numbers. Then you use Kelly Pavlic as your wedge to try to create racial unrest. Then you wear out a comment that no one cares about said by Burt Sugars. You rerun your equation of less gyms less = less boxers, then jump to poverty and boxing. You say " Anyway, there is a bloody revolution coming in the USA ,so thats another matter,the USA has been owned in basketball,boxing and the fall of the US Dollar,all of this is by design and don't you forget it" which sound like the words of an Al-Quida sympathizer'. The whole time admitting that you don't have the guts to follow your dream for fear of being sued. Your right I am confused. I don't know if you are young and not very intelligent or old and pretending to be unintelligent. I'm not sure if you are male or a male impersonator. What I do understand is that a boxer that came out of a very poor USA neighborhood went on to become a very good amateur. He then became such a good pro to be considered pound for pound the best in the world. What I know is that he used all those skills he learned in the US amateur system to drop and stop the very best boxer that they could ship across the ocean to try to beat him and that wasn't in the 70's. Yea, I have to give you credit, you really did do a good job confusion me. Cudos. I have to go now my little girl want to have tea party.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 09 Jan 2008, 17:47

It's a troll. Ignore it. It will go away. My last post to said troll.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 09 Jan 2008, 22:12

Hal, I didn't even see the Al Qaeda connection until you brought it up. Now it all makes perfect sense. Class is a nut job. I also go with the male impersonator choice. Sorry Mel.

If he is a guy, he doesn't have any and if he is a woman he is trying to get some.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 10 Jan 2008, 15:40

BTW, and FYI - there are around 1650 registered gyms in the U.S. This figure does not include those who are training in their garages or back yards.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 10 Jan 2008, 16:23

Mel that also doesn't count the numerous gyms that pop up and don't get registered. They have their boxers registered, but not the gym itself. So I would say that we probably have well over 2,000 AMATEUR boxing gyms in the U.S. There are also pro gyms that have a few amateurs who train there, but box unattached as the gym doesn't get registered with USA Boxing. So the number of gyms that train amateur boxers in the U.S. might very well exceed 2,500.

I would say that is a fair number of gyms. I guess that number does not count the Chicago Rec program and the like. See the numbers keep rising. Some idiots (I'm not disparaging you Mel -

) just don't realize how many gyms there actually are in the U.S. I guess it could be difficult if you don't actually live in the U.S. I think I'm going to start a thread about what is wrong with amateur boxing in Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Albania or any other country in the world that I have never visited. I would be an expert about their troubles.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 10 Jan 2008, 19:36

Some idiots (I'm not disparaging you Mel - )

And that's a left-handed statement?????

I think I'm going to start a thread about what is wrong with amateur boxing in Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Albania or any other country in the world that I have never visited. I would be an expert about their troubles.

I think that's a great idea! Being a lawyer will make your thread much more legitimate.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 11 Jan 2008, 00:32

No, it was not intended to be left handed, right handed, over handed or even under handed. Sorry to disappoint you Mel, but it was all intended for someone else.

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 11 Jan 2008, 06:59

well you lot answer this question

Why has youngstown produced more white world boxing champions than the whole of the USA in the last 20 years ?
(most white suburbs never had an AM gm is the 100% True answer if you like it or not)

its a fair question

btw

I think the majority of Americans do care about their people doing well in boxing/black/white/hispanic thats not a racist thing to say its the Truth and a reality of life

Thats not stirring things up ,its a shame that people are so brainwashed they get "hysterical" due to the brainwashing media over obvious facts

I guess by now the pc radr is going off in certain minds and now i am a "bigot"

btw

ask the black posters on boxrec how they feel about inner city AM gyms closing down,they are LIARS if they say it dont matter

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 11 Jan 2008, 07:07

Dennis wrote:
BTW - Ali was one of the greatest HW boxers of all time. He was 6'3" and over 200#. According to CLASS if Ali was a young man today he would be in the NBA or NFL. I doubt it.

Thats what Burt Sugar is saying you donut

I have sneered at that view,can you read ? or maybe its a typo

Its amazing how many people come out with that garbage of all the top boxing HW talents being in the NFL/NBA

Guys like Tyson/Holyfield/Bowe didnt even like team sports

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 11 Jan 2008, 07:12

Dennis wrote:
What changed? The former Soviet Union broke apart and now many of its top amateurs turn pro and do very well in the pros. Also, other countries are training boxers that develop into top pros. America - boxing isn't as popular.

Yes but we are talking about AM boxing,so therefore guys like Holyfied/Bowe/Mercer were competing with the Russians and kicking ass

There is a decline of quality USA AMs,due to a decline of ?

you tell me Dennis,so far you have offered not much son,just like the babble above

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 11 Jan 2008, 07:32

squarering wrote:You got me class, for a while I thought I could twist your scattered comments into something that made sense. But that was assuming that you were trying to make sense. One minute you bust the USA AM system with out backing up you comments with hard numbers. Then you use Kelly Pavlic as your wedge to try to create racial unrest. Then you wear out a comment that no one cares about said by Burt Sugars. You rerun your equation of less gyms less = less boxers, then jump to poverty and boxing. You say " Anyway, there is a bloody revolution coming in the USA ,so thats another matter,the USA has been owned in basketball,boxing and the fall of the US Dollar,all of this is by design and don't you forget it" which sound like the words of an Al-Quida sympathizer'. The whole time admitting that you don't have the guts to follow your dream for fear of being sued. Your right I am confused. I don't know if you are young and not very intelligent or old and pretending to be unintelligent. I'm not sure if you are male or a male impersonator. What I do understand is that a boxer that came out of a very poor USA neighborhood went on to become a very good amateur. He then became such a good pro to be considered pound for pound the best in the world. What I know is that he used all those skills he learned in the US amateur system to drop and stop the very best boxer that they could ship across the ocean to try to beat him and that wasn't in the 70's. Yea, I have to give you credit, you really did do a good job confusion me. Cudos. I have to go now my little girl want to have tea party.

Theres no confusion intended,its the likesof Dennis and Mel that are infact throwing the confusion in to the debate by not seeing the USA AM system is not what it once was

I have posted stats for example i posted the New York golden gloves from the 80s was smaller than it had been for years,i posted a link remember,anyway, listen to Dennis and Mel babbling away they dont have a clue how many AM gyms there are and how many AM gyms have the MONEY to send kids across the states to National AM comps

The reason i talked about Burt Sugar is because when the debate about the decline of USA HWs comes up, time and time again people talk tripe about all the talent being in the NFL/NBA which i know for a fact is utter tripe

Also, the reason why i mention poverty is because that is often given as a reason,but i know there is more poverty in Brazil or Nigeria than there is in the USA/Russia,so the answer is not poverty
( not many people think about simple logic like that)

I mean, be honest Sqarering,there must be a wealth of untapped talent in Nigeria or Brazil,untapped,why ? most poor countrys have very poor AM systems and that is not a view point its a fact

I aint trying to stir things up,i am just mentioning important facts,check through my post and you will see squarering and yes i would be worried about running an AM Gym due to the libel laws in the UK,come on man you cant blame me for mentioning that,or can you

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 11 Jan 2008, 07:36

Youngstown has a populaion of 80K

producing more white world boxing champions in the last 25 years than the rest of the USA 200 million white population

Is the reason something to do with no AM gyms in the suburbs ?

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 11 Jan 2008, 08:01

Can some one please tell me why Nigeria has produced so few boxers than the UK

why is that ?

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 11 Jan 2008, 08:07

classboxer wrote:
boxmel wrote:Kolya, Class is just pulling our chain - maybe it's time we started ignoring his inane comments and posturing as an amateur expert. Sounds like he never got over the Revolution.

He might want to question why Canada isn't/doesn't do as well, too. They have 231 gyms in the entire country, 131 more than we have in the Los Angeles area. Maybe their amateur gyms are closing, too?

Did you know that the U.S. was ranked #2 at the World Championships, with Russia #1? Yes, I know Cuba wasn't there - but still. England came in #6. Canada was ranked #26 (8 boxers).

Canada is such a vast country many AM gyms dont have the MONEY to send kids to the national AM comps,you are talking thousands of miles

but hey AM gyms are a fishing net of that there is not any doubt and only a fool would disagree

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 11 Jan 2008, 08:19

boxmel wrote:Kolya, Class is just pulling our chain - maybe it's time we started ignoring his inane comments and posturing as an amateur expert. Sounds like he never got over the Revolution.

He might want to question why Canada isn't/doesn't do as well, too. They have 231 gyms in the entire country, 131 more than we have in the Los Angeles area. Maybe their amateur gyms are closing, too?

Did you know that the U.S. was ranked #2 at the World Championships, with Russia #1? Yes, I know Cuba wasn't there - but still. England came in #6. Canada was ranked #26 (8 boxers).

Yo Boxmel

Canada has won 17 Olympic medals in AM boxing

3 Golds

7 slivers

7 Bronze

Total 17

what is the total of LA Olympic boxing ?

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 11 Jan 2008, 09:26

Kolya wrote:Ok, I just wanted to make sure I was clear that someone from the UK was telling me, both an athlete and official in USA Boxing, how our amateur system works. That's kind of funny, because there was awesome turnout this weekend for our Regional Silver Gloves in Great Falls (and I live in a state that isn't a huge boxing state; hell, the entire region isn't as busy as where Boxmel is from). We had a boxer who went to the Olympic Trials box, and the crowd was absolutely electric for 2 of our 15-16 year old boxers who both won and advanced to National Silver Gloves. I think you could have fooled any of the participants or those in attendance this weekend if you said amateur boxing was doing badly in the US.

Kolya

Dont get me wrong,i am not saying US AM boxing is dead,just faded

Thats why the New York Golden gloves moved from the Garden(20k crowds) to the felt forum in 1988(5.5 K crowds max)

Check out the HW division in 2008,were are the US HWs,were have they gone to ?

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 11 Jan 2008, 10:26

listen to Dennis and Mel babbling away they dont have a clue how many AM gyms there are and how many AM gyms have the MONEY to send kids across the states to National AM comps

There are around 1650 registered amateur gyms in the U.S (info supplied by the Membership Director at USA Boxing). This does not count any of the unregistered "gyms" in garages or back yards. You only see what you want to see, not the accurate data that's been posted. Any amateur gym who has a champion manages to get their boxer to the important tournaments.

Thats why the New York Golden gloves moved from the Garden(20k crowds) to the felt forum in 1988(5.5 K crowds max)

The finals of the New York Golden Gloves are always held at the Garden.

Canada has won 17 Olympic medals in AM boxing. what is the total of LA Olympic boxing ?

Don't know and don't care and don't see why any answer would be relevant.

I do believe you've won the Poster Who Babbles Most award on this forum.

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 11 Jan 2008, 10:41

Boxmel

Hi,its me again

You post there are 1650 registered AM gyms in the USA,that doesnt mean anything by its self
You have to compare like with like,for example, how many registered AM gyms were there in the 70s/80s ? then we have a picture i would also like to see a link(ie a source) to these important questions,other wise your words are worthless and could be you making up a load of waffle boxmel

I have posted my source about the Golden gloves being a smaller competition since the 70s,fair enough you say the gloves are still in the Garden(felt forum) but they were moved to Madison theatre( which holds 5.5 max)

The felt forum is just another name for Madison theatre which is a smaller venue than the Main Garden

btw

Tell me why Nigeria with a higher population has produced less boxers than the UK in Olympic boxing ?

(or will you duck like a false champ ?)

btw

lets drop the insults,i am sure we can find a way to agree on something

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 11 Jan 2008, 10:51

There used to be a Boxing gym on every street corner in the 60s in the USA

Many AM gyms have closed and its just plain wrong to say other wise

JMac · Post by **JMac** » 11 Jan 2008, 12:13

Boxing has declined in the US so what's your point? There are no easy answers. Young kids today would rather play video games and get fat than go to a gym and work hard.
Boxing has always been the sport for the underclass no matter what ethnic group. You are right that there is more poverty in Brazil and Nigeria compared to America. I've been to over 40 countries on 5 continents and the ghettos in Brazil called 'favelas' make US ghettos look like Beverly Hills. 21 million people live in Rio de Jenerio, 27 million live in Sao Paulo. There are some very dangerous and poor areas in America but compared to many other parts of the world, even poor Americans have it good. They just don't know it. That's why many poor people from all over the world want to come to live in the US. You can walk through American ghettos and see fat people. You don't see that in ghettos in Eastern Europe, Latin America, Africa or Aisa.
I spent a month in Niger, Africa working with their national team and coaches. Niger is one of the poorest countries in the world. Part of the reason they don't have good boxers is because they don't have good coaches and they are malnourished. Soccer is the number 1 sport in just about all countries except the US. Kids in the US have lots of choices and many now take the path of least resistance. Fast food resturants like Mickey D's plays a big part. The diet of people today is nothing like 50 years ago.
We all wish we had the answer and could gets lots of kids in the gyms but nothing stays the same anymore. Society is always changing. In the meantime, the best boxers will be coming from the ethnic groups whose culture's put more value on boxing.
Why does Youngstown, Ohio produce good boxers? It's a blue-collar town that must have some good coaches and it's a town with some history of boxing. That helps with getting future generations involved.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 11 Jan 2008, 12:19

would also like to see a link(ie a source) to these important questions,other wise your words are worthless and could be you making up a load of waffle boxmel

I am not in the habit of lying or exaggerating. Guess you haven't figured that out already. If you'd like to verify my figure of 1650 registered gyms, you may email Lynette Smith, Membership Director at USA Boxing. Her email is [email protected]. And, frankly, I suspect your words are mostly "worthless" and you do a lot of waffling, Class. Since you have no first-hand knowledge of amateur boxing in the United States, you might be better served by finding out why U.K. boxers aren't as successful as other countries, how many gyms are in the U.K., and what's wrong with your National Governing Body.

There used to be a Boxing gym on every street corner in the 60s in the USA

Besides being an impossibility, that is just patently not true. I grew up in the 50's and 60's and there was NOT a boxing gym on every street corner.

Many AM gyms have closed and its just plain wrong to say other wise

I have never disputed this.

And, BTW, there are more registered boxers in the Southern California Assn. than in the entire country of Canada.

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 11 Jan 2008, 13:07

JMac wrote:Boxing has declined in the US so what's your point? There are no easy answers. Young kids today would rather play video games and get fat than go to a gym and work hard.
Boxing has always been the sport for the underclass no matter what ethnic group. You are right that there is more poverty in Brazil and Nigeria compared to America. I've been to over 40 countries on 5 continents and the ghettos in Brazil called 'favelas' make US ghettos look like Beverly Hills. 21 million people live in Rio de Jenerio, 27 million live in Sao Paulo. There are some very dangerous and poor areas in America but compared to many other parts of the world, even poor Americans have it good. They just don't know it. That's why many poor people from all over the world want to come to live in the US. You can walk through American ghettos and see fat people. You don't see that in ghettos in Eastern Europe, Latin America, Africa or Aisa.
I spent a month in Niger, Africa working with their national team and coaches. Niger is one of the poorest countries in the world. Part of the reason they don't have good boxers is because they don't have good coaches and they are malnourished. Soccer is the number 1 sport in just about all countries except the US. Kids in the US have lots of choices and many now take the path of least resistance. Fast food resturants like Mickey D's plays a big part. The diet of people today is nothing like 50 years ago.
We all wish we had the answer and could gets lots of kids in the gyms but nothing stays the same anymore. Society is always changing. In the meantime, the best boxers will be coming from the ethnic groups whose culture's put more value on boxing.
Why does Youngstown, Ohio produce good boxers? It's a blue-collar town that must have some good coaches and it's a town with some history of boxing. That helps with getting future generations involved.

although you have worked over there in Niger Jmac
(i respect that 100%)

I know about Nigeria

The people of Nigeria are on average bigger than the Average French man EVEN NOW,check out Nigeria producing world class basketball players in the NBA they are massive,6ft plus EASY

Famine does not explain why Nigeria a country of strong people not "malnourished" have under performed at boxing

I mean,look at Jamaica,those Jamaicans are big and strong,but hey to make it in boxing they move to the states,its about the boxing system,how it works,getting a chance,thats the same as the US AM system works in the USA

AND why kids in the US suburbs have under peformed as well
(white kids)

Its like Brazil,lets be honest, for its population Brazil has under performed in Olympic AM Gold medals but raised the bar in Mixed martial arts because guess what ? Brazil has few AM gyms and is "loaded" with MMA gyms very much in the City of God
(thats the picture)

btw

Boxmel

We dont disagree that many US AM gyms have closed down in the last 20 years,therefore we "agree" on the decline of US AM boxing

or do we ?

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 11 Jan 2008, 13:17

We dont disagree that many US AM gyms have closed down in the last 20 years

,

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I agreed that "many AM gyms have closed."

Therefore we "agree" on the decline of US AM boxing or do we ?

We don't. I have never agreed with the "decline of US AM" that you have been waffling about. Again, wouldn't your energy be better served assisting your country's boxing program?

classboxer · Post by **classboxer** » 11 Jan 2008, 13:23

boxmel wrote:
We don't. I have never agreed with the "decline of US AM" that you have been waffling about. Again, wouldn't your energy be better served assisting your country's boxing program?

Well the Olympic AM stats

say the US is falling and falling in AM boxing,even if you disagree Boxmel

I can name one Gold Medal for the UK in the Olympics

The US ZERO

Ha,ha

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 11 Jan 2008, 13:36

Are you aware that we have the highest medal count of all the countries throughout Olympic history? Ha ha.