Reasons why Team USA is not as good as they can be

[classboxer]

Are you aware that we have the highest medal count of all the countries throughout Olympic history? Ha ha.

but Boxmel

To many US AM gyms have closed and so will produce fewer world class boxers and that means less Olympic Gold medals at the next Olympics,thats for sure

I do not deny the US is a Great country(or was)

The North Amercian union is coming, the US is planned to be destroyed,although this thread is not about that,i thought it would be wise to mention it to you
(shoot me for it son)

[Dennis]

Boxing has declined in the US so what's your point? There are no easy answers. Young kids today would rather play video games and get fat than go to a gym and work hard.
Boxing has always been the sport for the underclass no matter what ethnic group. You are right that there is more poverty in Brazil and Nigeria compared to America. I've been to over 40 countries on 5 continents and the ghettos in Brazil called 'favelas' make US ghettos look like Beverly Hills. 21 million people live in Rio de Jenerio, 27 million live in Sao Paulo. There are some very dangerous and poor areas in America but compared to many other parts of the world, even poor Americans have it good. They just don't know it. That's why many poor people from all over the world want to come to live in the US. You can walk through American ghettos and see fat people. You don't see that in ghettos in Eastern Europe, Latin America, Africa or Aisa.
I spent a month in Niger, Africa working with their national team and coaches. Niger is one of the poorest countries in the world. Part of the reason they don't have good boxers is because they don't have good coaches and they are malnourished. Soccer is the number 1 sport in just about all countries except the US. Kids in the US have lots of choices and many now take the path of least resistance. Fast food resturants like Mickey D's plays a big part. The diet of people today is nothing like 50 years ago.
We all wish we had the answer and could gets lots of kids in the gyms but nothing stays the same anymore. Society is always changing. In the meantime, the best boxers will be coming from the ethnic groups whose culture's put more value on boxing.
Why does Youngstown, Ohio produce good boxers? It's a blue-collar town that must have some good coaches and it's a town with some history of boxing. That helps with getting future generations involved.

You make some good points. I think you are suggesting that there are more options available to kids in the U.S. now as opposed to 40 years ago, including video games and even soccer. Americans are more affluent today than in years past. There are fewer truly poor people. Some people might argue the point, but how many kids are truly starving in the U.S. today as oppposed to say 40 or 50 years ago. I also don't recall ever having to have food rationed or shoes rationed, but my grandparents remember when that happened throughout parts of the 20th century - 30's to late 40's. I wish I had all the answers to make amatuer boxing more popular in the U.S.

[Dennis]

BTW - Ali was one of the greatest HW boxers of all time. He was 6'3" and over 200#. According to CLASS if Ali was a young man today he would be in the NBA or NFL. I doubt it.

Thats what Burt Sugar is saying you donut


I have sneered at that view,can you read ? or maybe its a typo


Its amazing how many people come out with that garbage of all the top boxing HW talents being in the NFL/NBA

Guys like Tyson/Holyfield/Bowe didnt even like team sports

OUCH, he called me a donut. MMMm, donuts! (think Homer Simpson while reading that line.)

[Dennis]

We dont disagree that many US AM gyms have closed down in the last 20 years

,

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I agreed that "many AM gyms have closed."

Therefore we "agree" on the decline of US AM boxing or do we ?

We don't. I have never agreed with the "decline of US AM" that you have been waffling about. Again, wouldn't your energy be better served assisting your country's boxing program?

Mel, the British guys that I met in Minnesota would kick this guy out of their gym if he ever stepped foot into it. Maybe he did and that is why he is looking elsewhere.

[Dennis]

There used to be a Boxing gym on every street corner in the 60s in the USA

Many AM gyms have closed and its just plain wrong to say other wise

Where is your source for "a Boxing gym on every street corner...."? You keep asking for our sources, but where are yours? How many cities in the U.S. have you visited and when? How many gyms have you been inside? Both in the U.K. and in the U.S.

Now, I have been to numerous gyms in the U.S. starting in 1979 or 1980. I was actually inside these gyms, working out and sparring. I have been inside gyms all across the U.S., both in the suburbs and in the inner-city. I have been in a couple out in the more rural parts of the country too.

Let me tell you, the decline in popularity of the sport and the decline in network television has hurt the sport in general. In the early 70's I was able to watch boxing - both amateur and pro on network television in the afternoon and evening. Now, I can only watch it on cable channels many of which are subscription only or PPV and many times the bouts come on very late (broadcasting from the west coast or NV).

Today, I see gyms opening and closing all the time. Often times somebody with good intentions starts a gym only to discover that it costs them lots of money to operate it. They then close it down.

[classboxer]

Where is your source for "a Boxing gym on every street corner...."? You keep asking for our sources, but where are yours? How many cities in the U.S. have you visited and when? How many gyms have you been inside? Both in the U.K. and in the U.S.

Now, I have been to numerous gyms in the U.S. starting in 1979 or 1980. I was actually inside these gyms, working out and sparring. I have been inside gyms all across the U.S., both in the suburbs and in the inner-city. I have been in a couple out in the more rural parts of the country too.

Let me tell you, the decline in popularity of the sport and the decline in network television has hurt the sport in general. In the early 70's I was able to watch boxing - both amateur and pro on network television in the afternoon and evening. Now, I can only watch it on cable channels many of which are subscription only or PPV and many times the bouts come on very late (broadcasting from the west coast or NV).

Today, I see gyms opening and closing all the time. Often times somebody with good intentions starts a gym only to discover that it costs them lots of money to operate it. They then close it down.

Dennis i admit i was exaggerating to say a "gym was on every street corner"
in the USA 1960s but there was a gym in more or less every neighbourhood,thats the word of respected old GREATS like Marciano,Floyd Patterson,Eddie Futch,Dundee

Burt Sugar has even said that

[Dennis]

well you lot answer this question

Why has youngstown produced more white world boxing champions than the whole of the USA in the last 20 years ?
(most white suburbs never had an AM gm is the 100% True answer if you like it or not)

Can you tell me exactly how many champions Youngstown has produced?

Do you know that there are actually boxing gyms in the so-called "white suburbs"? Why do you want to make this a race issue? I have known African-American boxers who have trained in the suburbs or in rural areas. Do you?

Mel - would you call Big Bear an inner city gym? How about the Olympic Training Center at CS? The USOEC at NMU? That must be one of the inner-city gyms he has visited. What about Ali's training camp in the Poconos? Has this guy ever been to the Poconos? I don't think you would call that a ghetto. Buster Douglas trained at a facility in Columbus that was quite posh and in the SUBURBS. Class - do you know who Buster Douglas is?

[Dennis]

Burt Sugar has even said that

The same Burt Sugar you disparage elsewhere.

[JMac]

I said in my previous post that boxing has declined in the US buy let me clarify. Yes there are less gyms and maybe less boxers since the increase we had after the '76 Olympics when the US won 5 gold medals. But there are still plenty of great amateur boxers in the US. There are also better boxers around the world. In the days of the USSR, they were one team. Now they are 15 teams. I'll be the first to admitt the former soviet union had a great system to train coaches where the top coaches were called master of sport. Those coaches are still around today. Though that training program no longer exist, the coaches are still teaching the new younger coaches the system plus most of the new coaches were boxers who box with the system. It is very easy to see that a boxer has been trained under an eastern european system. They have good fundamentals and throw their punches different from US boxers. It just so happens that east european style works very well with the computer scoring used today in amateur boxing.
In the US, there are still great boxers and coaches but the coaches all teach a little different from each other and what they teach is basically a pro style that does not work well with computer scoring. Former soviet coaches all teach the same style as do Cuban coaches who leraned from the soviets. The Cubans have modified it some to suit their athletes advantages.
When US boxers compete in international competitions and lose, many times because of politics which was the case for many years under Chowdhry, they got frustrated and turned pro figuring if they are going to get screwed, they might as well get paid for it. The other reason many US boxers were losing was because other countries like Cuba did not turn pro so you had teenagers boxing men. There was and still is always a big turnover of elite amateur boxers. As soon as they get good enough to compete internationally most would turn pro. The former soviet countries are now starting to turn pro and I see changes in their stlye becoming a little more pro like. They are putting more power in their punches than they did before.
Now mark my words, just when you think the US boxers won't be good anymore, you watch the next Olympics. The national coach understands what it takes for the US boxers to win on the international level and it is starting to show with 2 gold medals in Chicago. The team is young but they are getting the international experience they need to be successful.
Much to the dismay of the local coaches who trained those boxers to get where they are today, the boxers have to take it to another level that many local coaches don't teach. They have to learn how to box international style that wins with computer scoring. The current US Olympic team has some great boxers and they are making the adjustments because they are great athletes. As long as they stay focus and not let the pro promoters bother them until after the Olympics, they are going to win some bling in Beijing.

[JMac]

The people of Nigeria are on average bigger than the Average French man EVEN NOW,check out Nigeria producing world class basketball players in the NBA they are massive,6ft plus EASY

Nigeria has oil money and more jobs than Niger which has lots of sand and not many jobs.

[classboxer]

Do you know that there are actually boxing gyms in the so-called "white suburbs"? Why do you want to make this a race issue? I have known African-American boxers who have trained in the suburbs or in rural areas. Do you?

- would you call Big Bear an inner city gym? How about the Olympic Training Center at CS? The USOEC at NMU? That must be one of the inner-city gyms he has visited. What about Ali's training camp in the Poconos? Has this guy ever been to the Poconos? I don't think you would call that a ghetto. Buster Douglas trained at a facility in Columbus that was quite posh and in the SUBURBS. Class - do you know who Buster Douglas is?

Dennis

Big bear is a training camp for top class AMs turned pro more or less,top class AMs dont come from Big Bear/Poconos,they come from AM gyms

I aint turning it in to a race issue Dennis,just stating the reason why the US has a PATHETIC record of producing white Olympic AMs, i must be evil for saying that ey "Den" ?
(lack of AM gyms in the US suburbs is the reason for the lack of US white boxing talent for the last 20 years)

sorry to remind you of reality son,i dont care for political correctness,the slums of Brazil have as much talent as the Bronx,take it or leave it


btw

Jmac

You say the US is going to win some "bling" in the next Olympics

I beg to differ mate,this generation of Top AMs in the US come from a watered down AM system(less AM gyms) therefore are not as good as the kids in the past,know the USA boxing history and the dizzy heights it has fallen.
(i know you do from your posts JMac)

kazakhstan will win more Olympic medals than the USA in the next Olympics,time will tell who is talking sense on this thread Jmac not the squabble on this thread..................

[JMac]

kazakhstan will win more Olympic medals than the USA in the next Olympics,time will tell who is talking sense on this thread Jmac not the squabble on this thread..................

Tell that to the US Olympic team that just beat Kazakhstan in a dual in China after the pre-Olympic test event.

[classboxer]

Can you tell me exactly how many champions Youngstown has produced?

Mancini/Pavlik

Youngstown with a population of 80k, proves that an AM system in white areas proves something to dumbed down America

even if you disagree Dennis

[classboxer]

Tell that to the US Olympic team that just beat Kazakhstan in a dual in China after the pre-Olympic test event.

Kazaghstan kick ass in AM boxing these days,their top AMs were not at that event you mention

we shall see if the US can beat Kazakhstan at the Olympics(at boxing)

Time will tell

[classboxer]

The Brits just OWNED the US boxing team in a face off just gone by

Thats reality

Kazakstan are are growing force in world class AM boxing,laugh ,because you dont know what you are talking about,no doubt

[miboxref]

Can you tell me exactly how many champions Youngstown has produced?

Mancini/Pavlik

Youngstown with a population of 80k, proves that an AM system in white areas proves something to dumbed down America

even if you disagree Dennis

There was also a world champion from Youngstown at the same time and weight class as Mancini. I think his name was Harry Arroyo. Maybe it's not spelled correctly.

[Dennis]

Can you tell me exactly how many champions Youngstown has produced?

Mancini/Pavlik

Youngstown with a population of 80k, proves that an AM system in white areas proves something to dumbed down America

even if you disagree Dennis

Two champions from Youngstown. Mancini held his title more than 20 years ago so I will give a rundown of top caucasian boxers from the U.S. during the last 25 or so years.

Bobby Czyz – a middle class boxer that became champ

Vinny Pazienza – Italian-American world champ

Gerry Cooney - you could argue this one as he wasn't champ, but did make a lot of money and fought for the title

Tommy Morrison - was briefly a world champion

Greg Haugen - can't argue this one

John Scully - wasn't a champ, but was a top boxer and fought for the title a couple of times

Mike Rossman - world champ

Bronko McKart - world chmp

Sean O’Grady – Oklahoma City - world champ

Paulie Malignaggi - currently world champ

So, this is what I could think of in a few minutes. I may have missed some, but I tried. Lets see - Youngstown-2; The rest of the USA-10 (or slightly less if you want to bicker)

My point is CLASS you were wrong once again. Stop spouting off about US boxing. Stick to what you know, whatever that is. Either that or don't be so damn annoying.

[Dennis]

The Brits just OWNED the US boxing team in a face off just gone by

Thats reality

Kazakstan are are growing force in world class AM boxing,laugh ,because you dont know what you are talking about,no doubt

The Brits are doing very well, but lets see what happens on neutral soil. The USA vs. England duals when conducted in the US show something different. The World Golden Gloves also had a different outcome. I don't want to badmouth British boxing - they are doing great. I am amazed at the skills of some of their boxers, but I don't like some guy who doesn't know his way around a US boxing gym try to tell me and everyone else in the U.S. what is wrong with USA's amateur boxing system. Now the head coach of the UK team that I meant could give me some advice. In fact he did and I listened. He knows what he is talking about. I believe with him at the helm, the UK will continue to do well and will have a shot at quite a few medals at the 2012 Olympics in London.