Who wouldn't you want to go into an alley with?

TigerMoth · Post by **TigerMoth** » 12 Jan 2008, 10:34

No guns, no knives, and so on.

As an extreme example, I would rather go in with Ali than Chuck Wepner!

So, who is the last fighter you would want to go into an alley with?

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 12 Jan 2008, 14:23

I have been at it with a few amateur fighters on the dancefloor & side-alley in my work as a bouncer & the general rub of the green I took from that is the guys with ring experience only can be taken, but the guys with ring experience & a bit of street fighting knowledge behind that are tough customers indeed (One or two of these fellas have revealed to me I have the worst skin in human history - I don't cut, but boy, do I ever swell

).

My experience hints to me that the brawling, mauling fighters through history are more likely to be a tougher prospect for us, the man on the street, than the flashy, largely more talented showmen. That may seem like simple commonsense, but when you've actually been there (on any level, obviously no one's done what's being proposed here) it makes the picture clearer.

Whoever your nightmare side-alley match-up is, be it Chavez, Greb, Liston, Hagler, or anyone else, keep well in mind --- you always have a chance to win, however remote, if you strike first, & strike with conviction. & if it comes to it & you find yourself with the space & time to execute, no asshole, however big or menacing, ever laughed off a kick to the nuts

For me - Duran

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 12 Jan 2008, 15:14

I think what we are also factoring in is "vicious personality" In other words it is hard to beleive that some of these guys like maybe Ali or Leonard in this case, could find it in themselve to beat someone mercilessly. Whereas it is easy to think that Wepner, Liston, Tyson,Duran would simply keep beating on you until their rage wore off....which could be well past the point of your expiration.

Ali or Leanard might simply laugh at you once you fell down in a heap and walk away. Somehow I can imagine the other guys continuing to beat on your lifeless corpse until their mood passed.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 12 Jan 2008, 15:22

Fritz Zivic

p.s. Roberto Duran once said "in a streetfight I kill Ali". I'd believe that

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 12 Jan 2008, 15:57

Either Abe Simon or Sonny Liston would scare the hell out of me. There was also a local heavyweight of few skills who I saw fight a few times in the 1960s named Wes Craven. All muscle and ugly as hell. I got nervous being in the same auditorium with him.

TigerMoth · Post by **TigerMoth** » 12 Jan 2008, 16:38

[quote="BoxBuzz"]I think what we are also factoring in is "vicious personality" In other words it is hard to beleive that some of these guys like maybe Ali or Leonard in this case, could find it in themselve to beat someone mercilessly. Whereas it is easy to think that Wepner, Liston, Tyson,Duran would simply keep beating on you until their rage wore off....which could be well past the point of your expiration.

Ali or Leanard might simply laugh at you once you fell down in a heap and walk away. Somehow I can imagine the other guys continuing to beat on your lifeless corpse until their mood passed.[/quote]

Dream on. You have fallen for Ali and Leonards BS. If you are a member of this forum, I imagine you can recall the vicisous Ali who carried Ernie Terrell and Floyd Patterson. I especially dislike SRL, an insincere BS artist. And, I was a big Duran fan. Still, I watched the Duran Leonard 1 fight numerous times and each time got a bigger appreciation for Leonard - he was a tough as nails.

But, others had less skill and more street experience, and, therefore I believe would have been better in the alleyl

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 12 Jan 2008, 17:00

TigerMoth wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:I think what we are also factoring in is "vicious personality" In other words it is hard to beleive that some of these guys like maybe Ali or Leonard in this case, could find it in themselve to beat someone mercilessly. Whereas it is easy to think that Wepner, Liston, Tyson,Duran would simply keep beating on you until their rage wore off....which could be well past the point of your expiration.

Ali or Leanard might simply laugh at you once you fell down in a heap and walk away. Somehow I can imagine the other guys continuing to beat on your lifeless corpse until their mood passed.
Dream on. You have fallen for Ali and Leonards BS. If you are a member of this forum, I imagine you can recall the vicisous Ali who carried Ernie Terrell and Floyd Patterson. I especially dislike SRL, an insincere BS artist. And, I was a big Duran fan. Still, I watched the Duran Leonard 1 fight numerous times and each time got a bigger appreciation for Leonard - he was a tough as nails.

But, others had less skill and more street experience, and, therefore I believe would have been better in the alleyl

Ali had a reason to be merciless with Terrell. (AT least he felt he did) But you may be right. Somehow I can't picture Leonard doing more than he had to get the situation under control....whereas with Tyson or Liston they might not stop till the fat lady sang.....and if there was no fat lady to be found....the just might not stop at all.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 12 Jan 2008, 17:30

I'm surprised no one has said Sugar Ray Leonard would meet you in an alley, but he'd get to choose the alley, decide what the dimensions would be, what type of garbage cans there would be, how much lighting etc.

Funny thing about Mike Tyson, If I never knew he was and he called me up and threatened to kick my ass, my natural tendancy would be to respond "Kick my ass with what, your ballet slippers ?

Worst guy in an alley fight ? Maybe Young Griffo. He'd be staggering drunk, but he'd make you miss punches till you collapsed, and then he'd kick you in the head like he did Gentleman Jim Corbett.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 12 Jan 2008, 18:50

I've got three:Rocky Marciano,Carlos Monzon,and Harry Greb, all for the same reasons. First, they never showed any fear in the ring. Two,they were durable tough guys who could absorb a lot of punishment and fight when they were hurt. And three,and I think this is the most important reason,I don't think these guys liked themselves. They were self destructive and I think when they had to reach deep down,the hatred they had for themselves would be taken out on their opponents.

I read something that was said by Monzon along those lines. He said that when Valdez knocked him down,he looked at the the anger that was inside himself and turned it at Valdez.

Marciano's brother said that the Rock was never happy and that he was a mystery. He was one of the most aloof guys on the planet.

And Greb threw his body into a fight with no regard for his safety. And that was outside the ring!

Many people feel Carlos purposely smashed his car and killed himself after the he was in prison for killing his wife.(He was on a furlough to see his kids). Rocky died in the plane crash and Greb on the operating table,but I often wonder if those two would have burned themslves out deliberately and perished in some violent manner.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 12 Jan 2008, 21:40

"Ali had a reason to be merciless with Terrell. (AT least he felt he did) But you may be right. Somehow I can't picture Leonard doing more than he had to get the situation under control....whereas with Tyson or Liston they might not stop till the fat lady sang.....and if there was no fat lady to be found....the just might not stop at all." - BoxBuzz

But that's the point. If Ali is going to meet you in the alley, obviously he has a reason, doesn't he? It's got to be personal, so the motivation is there. It's not a boxing match. It's a street fight.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 12 Jan 2008, 21:41

"I'm surprised no one has said Sugar Ray Leonard would meet you in an alley, but he'd get to choose the alley, decide what the dimensions would be, what type of garbage cans there would be, how much lighting etc..." - Seamus

yancey · Post by **yancey** » 12 Jan 2008, 21:42

Mega Tyson and the '73 Foreman.

The Irish Assassin · Post by **The Irish Assassin** » 12 Jan 2008, 21:44

Ibeabuchi

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 13 Jan 2008, 01:00

..tomato makes an interesting choice with abe simon. in addition to his being huge, he had a rare genetic condition in being unable to feel pain. this can be a certain plus in boxing, except it can get you killed, and a dangerous condition in life, especially for children who can burn themselves and not know it. they have to learn to be cautious as they grow up. kind of like having life threatening allergy to peanuts or other foods that are so prevalent and harmless to most people.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 13 Jan 2008, 01:10

Interesting, I did not know that about Simon. He truly is frightening on film, in the clinches his shadow just seems to swallow Louis up. He really stands out when you first see him, he looks like a real life version of The Incredible Hulk.

Is there --- or was there --- any kind of barrier or special conditions placed upon fighters with such a condition? I can see how licensing authorities might have some concerns.

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 13 Jan 2008, 01:13

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Interesting, I did not know that about Simon. He truly is frightening on film, in the clinches his shadow just seems to swallow Louis up. He really stands out when you first see him, he looks like a real life version of The Incredible Hulk.

Is there --- or was there --- any kind of barrier or special conditions placed upon fighters with such a condition? I can see how licensing authorities might have some concerns.

I'm not sure how one would test for those kinds of conditions, since it mainly has to do with nerves, and obviously people who tend to deal with pain better have less of those nerves or at least ones that aren't as sensitive.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 13 Jan 2008, 01:14

Battling Nelson was supposed to have an extra thick skull that enabled him to absorb extreme punishment. Old timers used to say Wolgast/Nelson title fight was the most brutal in boxing annals.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 13 Jan 2008, 03:00

Goodnight, Irene wrote:"I'm surprised no one has said Sugar Ray Leonard would meet you in an alley, but he'd get to choose the alley, decide what the dimensions would be, what type of garbage cans there would be, how much lighting etc..." - Seamus

"I demand there be x number of winos present in said alleyway. get it wrong and..........no fight"

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 13 Jan 2008, 04:47

Contray to how it seems watching live or on TV, in the street a fist from a trained fighter goes VERY quick and violent in a street fight.

Any champion handles himself well, on athleticism and reflexes alone.

I remember seeing a old guy in his 60s who was about 75kg, handle himself pretty damned well with his fists in a fight in a car park when I was a kid. He was an accomplished amateur boxer. He landed very straight and clean jabs and rights on to these 20 to 30 something biker types. Put them on there asses. I was a kid but it gave me a healty respect for boxers.

The funny thing was after wards the old guy who seemed a tad drunk was talking during the whole thing.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 13 Jan 2008, 05:52

He landed jabs in a street fight!?

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 13 Jan 2008, 11:55

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Interesting, I did not know that about Simon. He truly is frightening on film, in the clinches his shadow just seems to swallow Louis up. He really stands out when you first see him, he looks like a real life version of The Incredible Hulk.

Is there --- or was there --- any kind of barrier or special conditions placed upon fighters with such a condition? I can see how licensing authorities might have some concerns.

That's it! All these years it's been nagging me who The Incredible Hulk reminded me of. It's a cross between The Jolly Green Giant and Abe Simon. Thanks!

banjo · Post by **banjo** » 13 Jan 2008, 12:02

jake lamotta for me
he was just pure explosive rage and violence

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 13 Jan 2008, 12:12

Probably wouldn't have wanted this guy mad at you.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 13 Jan 2008, 12:23

what a book that would make. marciano, monzon and greb take a walk together through a tough city neighbourhood. talking about themselves, each other, boxing, fighting, life and loves. and the occasional scrap with wise guys and gang members as they go.
if i had a commision i'd take it on..

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 13 Jan 2008, 12:25

hasnt taken too many shots has he... the pretty ones aint too much in an alley, great photo though

Who wouldn't you want to go into an alley with?

Who wouldn't you want to go into an alley with?

Dream on

Re: Dream on

Re: Dream on