its common knowledge now that enzo calzaghe has a predominant 'no weights' policy amongst his stable, he gets his fighters to opt for speed and stamina over raw explosive oxygen sapping strength.
his methods seem to be working and his stable is very very healthy indeed, although none of his charges are 'cut and defined' they are boxing well and bringing home the bacon. they show decent stamina and despite the obvious lack of muscle bulk (maccarinelli/calzaghe/rees/pryce etc) they are punching as hard as ever.
what do you guys think? many of the fellas on here have been more involved in fighter training than i can ever dream of, but i was always under the impression that weight training was a vital part of a fighters training regime.
rhino222 wrote:its common knowledge now that enzo calzaghe has a predominant 'no weights' policy amongst his stable, he gets his fighters to opt for speed and stamina over raw explosive oxygen sapping strength.
his methods seem to be working and his stable is very very healthy indeed, although none of his charges are 'cut and defined' they are boxing well and bringing home the bacon. they show decent stamina and despite the obvious lack of muscle bulk (maccarinelli/calzaghe/rees/pryce etc) they are punching as hard as ever.
what do you guys think? many of the fellas on here have been more involved in fighter training than i can ever dream of, but i was always under the impression that weight training was a vital part of a fighters training regime.
is enzo calzaghe re-writing the book?
From the couple of ex pro's I've spoken to I thought it was the opposite. It's only the modern day fighters who have incorporated weight training into their regimen. I don't really see how it helps either, because of the weight limits. They are so outdated which means almost every fighter is cutting weight before fights. It's not good to mix weight training with weight cutting. Any novice gym rat can tell you that.
Give me a J Cal over a muscled up Lacy type any day.
Boxing aint a weight lifting contest.
Some fighters NEED building up a little to give them their 'man strength' (someone like Tristan Davies from Telford springs to mind) and whilst a sensible, varied weights programme aids most fighters it is far from a necessity in my eyes.
Weights imporve explosive power but should be mixed with other things, I have seen footage of calzaghe doing arobic exersis with weight which builds both.
I gues we'll see what happens when old tequniqus take on new ones when Enzo fights Haye I guess.
Is there a difference between musculature built up through weight training and that achieved in other ways (push-ups, etc.)? Because I look at people like Pacquiao and Bruce Lee and they are extremely muscled, but very lean with it. It doesn't look like the inflated muscle strength that weights tend to produce (say in someone like Lacy.) I don't know if there's anything in this though, or if it's just a false perception.
glahn wrote:Is there a difference between musculature built up through weight training and that achieved in other ways (push-ups, etc.)? Because I look at people like Pacquiao and Bruce Lee and they are extremely muscled, but very lean with it. It doesn't look like the inflated muscle strength that weights tend to produce (say in someone like Lacy.) I don't know if there's anything in this though, or if it's just a false perception.
Partly to do with body type as well. Pacman and Lee are both small boned men with slim frames.
banjo wrote:building muscle through press ups, pull ups, etc. is far more beneficial than lifting weights
Different strokes for different folks IMHO if your using sub maximum weights then its better than potentialy doing yourself a misschiefe failing to compleet pull ups etc.
banjo wrote:building muscle through press ups, pull ups, etc. is far more beneficial than lifting weights
Different strokes for different folks IMHO if your using sub maximum weights then its better than potentialy doing yourself a misschiefe failing to compleet pull ups etc.
that is true. i forgot that part, its only beneficial if performed correctly.
Joe uses weights, machine weights. I've seen him do it.
You should learn skill first (duh). Then, if you want faster punches, use the Kayes method of strengthing each muscle after gym workouts with an 8-rep failure (no free weights and no lower than 8, for risk of injury), because the stronger the muscle the harder it tenses and the harder it can tense the faster it can contract - you have to contract muscle to throw a punch.
STP wrote:Joe uses weights, machine weights. I've seen him do it.
You should learn skill first (duh). Then, if you want faster punches, use the Kayes method of strengthing each muscle after gym workouts with an 8-rep failure (no free weights and no lower than 8, for risk of injury), because the stronger the muscle the harder it tenses and the harder it can tense the faster it can contract - you have to contract muscle to throw a punch.
it says very clearly in joes autobiography 9good read by the way !) that he does not use weights for any part of his training !!
I agree with EPNG - Low weights are fine, with fast long reps.... THATS ALL though, and essentially you don't need that.
Modern day sports coaches need to really show the benefit of using the right muscle groups in the right way for your sport..... essentially the best training you can get is to replicate your sport. Sure weights have a place, but essentially its bag work, bag work, bag work.
My mate is an Welsh 800 metre runner - weights is an important part of his regime.... he like an anorexic lad, but aint put any weight on with his 4 times a week programme... cause its all low weights. He'll never look like Schwarzenegger - but he is strong as an ox.
Read some of the weights lifted buy ickle Jonathon Edwards.
STP wrote:Joe uses weights, machine weights. I've seen him do it.
You should learn skill first (duh). Then, if you want faster punches, use the Kayes method of strengthing each muscle after gym workouts with an 8-rep failure (no free weights and no lower than 8, for risk of injury), because the stronger the muscle the harder it tenses and the harder it can tense the faster it can contract - you have to contract muscle to throw a punch.
it says very clearly in joes autobiography 9good read by the way !) that he does not use weights for any part of his training !!
I've personally seen him using a chest press machine, shoulder press machine and pull-over machine. He was doing low weights for high reps, and not particularly fast.
STP wrote:Joe uses weights, machine weights. I've seen him do it.
You should learn skill first (duh). Then, if you want faster punches, use the Kayes method of strengthing each muscle after gym workouts with an 8-rep failure (no free weights and no lower than 8, for risk of injury), because the stronger the muscle the harder it tenses and the harder it can tense the faster it can contract - you have to contract muscle to throw a punch.
it says very clearly in joes autobiography 9good read by the way !) that he does not use weights for any part of his training !!
I've personally seen him using a chest press machine, shoulder press machine and pull-over machine. He was doing low weights for high reps, and not particularly fast.
That's not weights, that's resistence machines which rely on cables and pulleys to ensure the movement is controlled and stabilised. Similar to a Smith Machine. They don't build muscle anywhere near as well as freeweights and Olympic Bars because the machine does some of the work for you.
ArtOfWar wrote:
From the couple of ex pro's I've spoken to I thought it was the opposite. It's only the modern day fighters who have incorporated weight training into their regimen. I don't really see how it helps either, because of the weight limits. They are so outdated which means almost every fighter is cutting weight before fights. It's not good to mix weight training with weight cutting. Any novice gym rat can tell you that.
I think the weights issue is less to do with punching power and more in many instances to do wwith punch resistance - the muscles that boxers work on are often their chest and abdominal muscles, which are the ones responsible for padding body shots. The general impression I have is that excessive amounts of muscle in the arms slows punch reflexes and can be costly.
glahn wrote:Is there a difference between musculature built up through weight training and that achieved in other ways (push-ups, etc.)? Because I look at people like Pacquiao and Bruce Lee and they are extremely muscled, but very lean with it. It doesn't look like the inflated muscle strength that weights tend to produce (say in someone like Lacy.) I don't know if there's anything in this though, or if it's just a false perception.
Partly to do with body type as well. Pacman and Lee are both small boned men with slim frames.
Some people seem to have more natural muscle, i've got a mate who does no exercise, eats crap food, drinks and smokes.
Go to a beach in the summer and he looks as if he's been in the gym all year, whilst i look like a slightly podgy bloke , and i exercise. whats that all about
There are many misconceptions about using weights, particularly that using them makes you musclebound (there is a similar myth about steroids that James Toney used as 'evidence' that he didn't use them). Basically, as pointed out above, it depends on how you use them.
Power is the product of speed and force. Trick is to get the right balance and to optimise each. How this is done may vary.
Basically, so many factors go into determine the right training regime - individual preference (coach and boxer), individual development response, balance between training methods, the list goes on... It's up to each camp to find what works best for each individual and can't be prescribed as an exact science. That is why I prefer open-minded individuals that will try things and see what works for them to those that automatically rule things out as not being right for the sport.
glahn wrote:Is there a difference between musculature built up through weight training and that achieved in other ways (push-ups, etc.)? Because I look at people like Pacquiao and Bruce Lee and they are extremely muscled, but very lean with it. It doesn't look like the inflated muscle strength that weights tend to produce (say in someone like Lacy.) I don't know if there's anything in this though, or if it's just a false perception.
Partly to do with body type as well. Pacman and Lee are both small boned men with slim frames.
Some people seem to have more natural muscle, i've got a mate who does no exercise, eats crap food, drinks and smokes.
Go to a beach in the summer and he looks as if he's been in the gym all year, whilst i look like a slightly podgy bloke , and i exercise. whats that all about
I know the feeling Ian. My mate is a semi pro footballer, eats almost a pack of chocolate biscuits a day and still only has 4.6% body fat. However, I live in the dream that one day he'll retire, and be a fat fck!
All depends on metabolic rate, and possibly body type. I'm endomorphic and he's ectomorphic:
glahn wrote:Is there a difference between musculature built up through weight training and that achieved in other ways (push-ups, etc.)? Because I look at people like Pacquiao and Bruce Lee and they are extremely muscled, but very lean with it. It doesn't look like the inflated muscle strength that weights tend to produce (say in someone like Lacy.) I don't know if there's anything in this though, or if it's just a false perception.
Lee was Into weight training as well.
I read that he did lots of reps for lightweights and low amounts of reps for heavy sets.
Weights give explosive speed depending on what sets you do which can benefit boxing.
glahn wrote:Is there a difference between musculature built up through weight training and that achieved in other ways (push-ups, etc.)? Because I look at people like Pacquiao and Bruce Lee and they are extremely muscled, but very lean with it. It doesn't look like the inflated muscle strength that weights tend to produce (say in someone like Lacy.) I don't know if there's anything in this though, or if it's just a false perception.
Lee was Into weight training as well.
I read that he did lots of reps for lightweights and low amounts of reps for heavy sets.
Weights give explosive speed depending on what sets you do which can benefit boxing.
Lee's workouts were bout 5-10 years ahead of their time, because he understood the value of training in blocks for different levels of muscle fibres and rotating it.
