Cuban Boxing Coaches are everywhere

[Dennis]

Two more countries are in the process of adding Cuban coaches to their national teams. Uganda recently hired a Cuban coach under a two year contract. Phillipines are in the process of hiring a Cuban coach.

Pretty soon more and more countries will be turning out good amateurs that are trained to take advantage of the current Olympic-style amateur boxing rules.

Maybe the U.S. should look into getting a Cuban coach or Russian coach to assist our amateur boxing program. It seems to have worked for many Asian countries in recent years.

[JMac]

Maybe the U.S. should look into getting a Cuban coach or Russian coach to assist our amateur boxing program.

Or at least send many of the top coaches to clinics in Cuba and Russia. There is a lot that could be learned from them.

[Kolya]

[quote="Dennis"]Two more countries are in the process of adding Cuban coaches to their national teams. Uganda recently hired a Cuban coach under a two year contract. Phillipines are in the process of hiring a Cuban coach.

Pretty soon more and more countries will be turning out good amateurs that are trained to take advantage of the current Olympic-style amateur boxing rules.

Maybe the U.S. should look into getting a Cuban coach or Russian coach to assist our amateur boxing program. It seems to have worked for many Asian countries in recent years.[/quote

I remember saying that I thought we should do this a while back, but I doubt it will ever happen. Too much pride and refusal to try things differently I think, I don't think whoever makes the decisions would like it if we put out a really good team but one of the head coaches was a Russian (I doubt it would ever be a Cuban, what with the embargo and all).

[Dennis]

Maybe the U.S. should look into getting a Cuban coach or Russian coach to assist our amateur boxing program.

Or at least send many of the top coaches to clinics in Cuba and Russia. There is a lot that could be learned from them.

I agree.

[Dennis]

Kolya - I'm all for it. I don't mind learning from others. I believe many of our current training techniques were learned from other countries, including Russia. Things like the use of Plyometrics.

[squarering]

If Kenny Weldon is correct, the Cubans came to the US to learn boxing years ago form people that Kenny worked under. I believe it was Kid Chocolate, that took what he learned back to Cuba and build on it. They were just more committed to improving on a good system. No one showed them how to do it, they figured it out. Although conditioning teqniques differ a little now, none of that information is top secret or rocket science. If we had two of the best coaches in the world at our disposal, would they be allowd to take complete control of training at USOTC? Would the kids acept the rules and disapline? Would the parents and personal coaches interfere? Talk about stipen fines, and getting sent out of camp. I don't know for sure but I would guess that the Cuban and Russian coaches don't put up with any S__T at all. I would also imagine that in those camps the athletes does give them very much. It goes beyong just good coaching.....in my humble personable opinion.

[hbomb2]

We have been doing Plyometrics and interval running since the early eighties and it did not come from other countries. Some of you are just hearing about it. The Cuban and Russian coaches are no better than ours. They have a system that they all must fall under. Their boxer and coaches are under the same system for years, which gives them a huge advantage over us. We on the other hand have freedom and complain about things such as the kids having to live in Colorado Springs for one year in order to get on the same page of the coach. We are the innovators and most talented but must come together and teach under a similiar system across the country if we are going to be dominant. Politics play a big part as well.

[squarering]

WOW H, we posted at the same time and basically said the same thing. Coincidence? I think not.

[hbomb2]

Man are you BRILLIANT!

[squarering]

I beg to differ my friend ,,,,We are Brilliant.

[Dennis]

Part of the problem is the lack of incentives in the USA to stay amateur. Hal - you didn't keep Fernando amateur and he is only 20 or so. Why? You don't want to wait 4.5 more years at a CHANCE of making the 2012 Olympic team. There are no guarantees - just ask guys like Mike Wilson. Even if you do make it, there are no guarantees of great riches after boxing in the Olympics so why wait. Well, you didn't. Many don't. In other countries many of the boxers are paid to stay amateur (that sounds like an oxymoron). They can also be given pressure to stay amateur, but that doesn't happen in the U.S. The boxer either wants to do it for some personal reasons or they go pro.

[Dennis]

I still would like to have an exchange of ideas and coaching techniques with a Russian or Cuban coach. Preferably one that speaks English since I do not speak Russian or Spanish.

[hbomb2]

If I were a coach from another country and knew that you wanted to share ideas I would exchange with you. I would have my boxers do all sorts of drills and tell you that is what we do to that allows us to get better, and because you already think that I am a better coach you will copy it and say " This is what the Cubans/Russians do" and I will laugh at you while you are not looking. (It has been done)

Listen, my friend. We are better than the rest but we have no discipline, so therefore we lose.

If you have ever been in training camp with Andre Ward as an amateur, he has discipline and an excellent work ethic. In the Olympics he beat a 6'6 178 lbs. guy that hadn't lost in 6 years. Andre Ward did not come close to 178 lbs. Was Andre Ward schooled by the Cubans or Russians?

Be Blessed!

[locoxelbox]

I still would like to have an exchange of ideas and coaching techniques with a Russian or Cuban coach. Preferably one that speaks English since I do not speak Russian or Spanish.

I'm not cuban but I have been there many times both as a boxer and a coach. I have also been to Russia and been fortunate to work with their National Team.
It isn't any coincidence many countries hire cuban coaches. They are the best (generally speaking). How many countries hire american coaches nowadays? No one I'd believe.
In Cuba amateur boxing is like football in Brazil or Argentina. Everybody on the street talk boxing and baseball. To be a coach you must study a 5 year career where you finish as a Physical Education Teacher specialized in boxing. In most countries former boxers become coaches without any theoretical or practical experience. In some countries a weekend/week/or couple of weeks is enough.
Cubans have a scientific approach to the coaching job. Their best coaches are continuosly investigating new ways to improve boxing. They have several coaches who have a Doctor's degree.
They have organized a system so that the best talents don't get lost and they can find them at an early stage. Of course this is supported by their government and probably wouldn't be possible in th US. But is is possible in many other countries and they are still not as good as the cubans.
Many people dismiss cuban boxer's succes as -They are 30 year old veterans fighting kids. While this can be true in some cases you can't forget that at junior level (17-18 years old) cubans are just as successful as they are at senior level. And at home these 17-18 year old kids many times beat their 30 year old counterparts.
Technically Cuban boxers are far superior to the US boxers. You can clearly see a huge difference at the technical aspects. US boxers are mostly very talented but they lack basic technical work.
However I agree it wouldn't be practical to hire a cuban coach for the US team. However it would be very valuable for US amateur boxing to hire a cuban coach as an adviser to improve structure of coaching programme all over the country. Don't know if it's possible though.

[squarering]

If a young talented boxer wishes to persue a pro carreer, the people with the power in the sport want these kids at 18 , or 19, Heavyweights can start a little later, So if you entered the sport at say 11, 12 or 13, and you go through the jrs and move into the open class, you will either have a shot at 1 or 2 Olympic games depending on how it works out, as in the case of Danial Jacobs. So you put in 8 or 9 years and take your shot and don't make it. It's time to move on. You don't want to take a chance at ruining the second part of your dream.. Everyone says our kids leave the AMs too early or our kids are fighting men. But if you ask me, I think our kids move on when they are suppose to and it is the other countries that keep thier athletes in amateurs boxing too long. Boxing is a young mans sport. Unlike a high jumper who is done after the Olympics, boxers can move on like, like, like , I mean unlike the pro olympic hocky player, basketball player, the soccer player. Do you get my point. None of those other sports expect the athletes to focus on one aspect of the sport and throw a carreer away. To me it's not naturall to see a 28 or 30 year old man still boxing amatere, they too should have moved on. Just because thier government scews up the natural order of things doesn't mean we have to follow suit. And yes if you expect and young man to chnage his goal, you have to compensate him for it.

[squarering]

If you look at the number of bouts the kids on the team have, you will see that the ones that most people have high expectation of, like Rashied, Gary, Yanez and Boo Boo, have parobably and average of 175 bouts. The bigger guys heavy, super heavy Light heavy maybe and average of 50 or 60.

[Dennis]

If you look at the number of bouts the kids on the team have, you will see that the ones that most people have high expectation of, like Rashied, Gary, Yanez and Boo Boo, have parobably and average of 175 bouts. The bigger guys heavy, super heavy Light heavy maybe and average of 50 or 60.

I think you are correct, except the three heaviest probably have less experience than you mention. Hunter might have 30-40 bouts, Wilder about 25 and Downs might be close to the 50 or 60 number.

[Dennis]

Hal your comments about the age to turn pro I think is a little too low. I know that some of our greatest pros did turn pro at 18 or 19 like Ali and Floyd Jr., but others have been ruined by turning pro too young.

I think there are some guys like Tyson who are mature enough to turn pro at 18, while others need a few more years of maturity before turning pro. I think a lot of boxers should wait until they are 22 or 23. Some that start their amateur careers later need to stay pro until mid 20's or even older so that they get the necessary skills before turning pro.

[squarering]

I was being generous with the bout number of the heavier guys and If you add in Estrada it does bring it up. Still it seems the little guys have more bouts. even the young ones. I do agree different ones mature differently but when we talk about Olympics we are talking in 4 year increments. If you are 20,21,22, and you are part of the "Graduation Class" of 08, you will be 24,25,26 before you turn, if you stay on. 3.5 years to build up 10 fights, 8 fights, 8 fights and 3 fights and there you are at 29, with 29 fights, just making your bid. How long can you stick around as a Champion if you get there at 29, 3 maybe 4 years, Pavlic is 25. he has the option to stick around for 8, 9 years and put some cash away and make an even bigger name for himself. Of course you big guys can stick around a little longer.

[Puncher7]

Hal has a point. After you've been there and done that.... whats the point in sticking around??? I mean we can complain about it because we're losing talent but there is not much incentive in them sticking around fighting for trophies for 4 more years. Especially since anything can happen and theres no guarantee you'll even be on the team in 4 years.... So then what? its almost like 4 years down the drain

[Dennis]

Hal has a point. After you've been there and done that.... whats the point in sticking around??? I mean we can complain about it because we're losing talent but there is not much incentive in them sticking around fighting for trophies for 4 more years. Especially since anything can happen and theres no guarantee you'll even be on the team in 4 years.... So then what? its almost like 4 years down the drain

If you are 22 and have 150 amateur bouts, you have a point. If you are 25 and only have 20 bouts, another year of amateur experience and another 15-20 bouts might be a good idea. If you are 17 and have 50 bouts, stick around for at least another year or two. It also depends on your goals. If you want to have a shot at international competition and travel, you might want to stay amateur for a little longer.

[Puncher7]

yeah it definitely depends on your goals.... But a lot of these "youngsters" turning pro already have a lot of fights so they should be fine...

As far as getting to compete internationally You can also fight overseas as a pro though and get your travel paid....... But obviously it wouldn't be smart to do in the beginning of a career

[boxmel]

As far as getting to compete internationally You can also fight overseas as a pro though and get your travel paid....... But obviously it wouldn't be smart to do in the beginning of a career

I honestly believe you get better international opportunities as an amateur. How many pros actually fight overseas unless it's for a title and they are among the super stars? I don't think your basic club fighters get that kind of opportunity often - and I may be wrong. 8)

[Dennis]

The pro fighters that do get the opportunity early in their careers usually get a nice big "L" for their troubles. It happens in the amateur ranks too as the USA team recently discovered in England, but at least that won't cost them a lot of money as it can in the pros.