This one is hard to top.
Jerry Powers "The Prince of Second Avenue" was a prelim fighter of the sixties that was featured on almost every Chris Dundee promotion, fighting a documented 157 fights.
Behold! Fifty five of those fights -over one third of his career- were against only five men. Powers fought Sandy Seabrooke 17 times, Winston Green 12, Berlin Roberts 10, George Sawyer 9 and Grady McClendon seven.
He also fought a lot of other fighters -Bobby Allen, Bobby Marie, Jimmy Hightower Etc- three or four times each.
THE ABSOLUTE KING OF THE REMATCH
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Ambling Alp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3627
- Joined: 15 Jul 2005, 22:31
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
I remember years ago looking at Powers' record. He was still active. He fought mostly in Florida and Georgia. Losing 85 times. Fighting 44 times in a year. Were his fights brutal or more like sparring sessions? Only 5 KO's in all those fights. Should he have been allowed have a career like that?BoxBuzz wrote:Sounds like this guy was an expert in developing "fighting relationships".
It appears he could take a maligning and keep on signing. After your 10th fight with an opponent it must get sort of strange in that ring.....sort of a domestic disturbance partner thing going.
Was he exploited? Did he make any money? Was this cruel or jeopordize his health? Or is this really nothing? How's he doing today?
Re: THE ABSOLUTE KING OF THE REMATCH
Doesn't say much for Chris Dundee, does it.enrique wrote:This one is hard to top.
Jerry Powers "The Prince of Second Avenue" was a prelim fighter of the sixties that was featured on almost every Chris Dundee promotion, fighting a documented 157 fights.
Behold! Fifty five of those fights -over one third of his career- were against only five men. Powers fought Sandy Seabrooke 17 times, Winston Green 12, Berlin Roberts 10, George Sawyer 9 and Grady McClendon seven.
He also fought a lot of other fighters -Bobby Allen, Bobby Marie, Jimmy Hightower Etc- three or four times each.
I assumed your title meant King of [Winning or improving on an earlier result in ] the Rematch--------
which would be Joe Louis, hands down.
In response to Granberry's comment: "Doesn't say much for Chris Dundee, does it."
Yes it does, Granberry.
Chris did big time promotions with champions but he also did thirty or forty club promos a year at a cheap level -his farm club to develop talent- providing local fighters work. I don't know how many shows he promoted but he was active in Florida from the forties till the earlyt nineties and in his his twenty peak years he easily promoted over 600 club shows and in his last years he was still doing 8 or 10 shows a year.
Chris was a GREAT promoter and he had a crew of feathers and lightweights that fought each other over and over. Look at the records of Eddie Ludlow, Bobby Marie, Sandy Seabrooke, Grady MClendon, Emilio Garcia, Santos Flores and those they fought. Chris did not make a lot of money in the club shows -the money was in the big fights, the TV fights or booking fighters in Vegas or Europe- but he was a real promoter, more important in a historical context than Angelo.
I worked with him many times and learned a lot from him. He would argue for an hour over a dollar on a contract, but every thanksgiving he gathered a large group of trainers and broken nose pugs and pay the bill at a good restaurant, buying meals for twenty or thirty of his boys.
Jerry Powers is still around. I hear he works at a BBQ restaurant in Miami. He was a light puncher who threw a lot of leather, thrilled the crowds and usually fought other prelim fighters like himself and was seldom hurt or stopped. Jerry was likeable, popular and current promoters wish they had a dozen fighters like the Prince of Second Avenue.
Yes it does, Granberry.
Chris did big time promotions with champions but he also did thirty or forty club promos a year at a cheap level -his farm club to develop talent- providing local fighters work. I don't know how many shows he promoted but he was active in Florida from the forties till the earlyt nineties and in his his twenty peak years he easily promoted over 600 club shows and in his last years he was still doing 8 or 10 shows a year.
Chris was a GREAT promoter and he had a crew of feathers and lightweights that fought each other over and over. Look at the records of Eddie Ludlow, Bobby Marie, Sandy Seabrooke, Grady MClendon, Emilio Garcia, Santos Flores and those they fought. Chris did not make a lot of money in the club shows -the money was in the big fights, the TV fights or booking fighters in Vegas or Europe- but he was a real promoter, more important in a historical context than Angelo.
I worked with him many times and learned a lot from him. He would argue for an hour over a dollar on a contract, but every thanksgiving he gathered a large group of trainers and broken nose pugs and pay the bill at a good restaurant, buying meals for twenty or thirty of his boys.
Jerry Powers is still around. I hear he works at a BBQ restaurant in Miami. He was a light puncher who threw a lot of leather, thrilled the crowds and usually fought other prelim fighters like himself and was seldom hurt or stopped. Jerry was likeable, popular and current promoters wish they had a dozen fighters like the Prince of Second Avenue.
John Condon spent over 40 years working in boxing promotion for Madison Square Garden.enrique wrote:In response to Granberry's comment: "Doesn't say much for Chris Dundee, does it."
Yes it does, Granberry.
Chris did big time promotions with champions but he also did thirty or forty club promos a year at a cheap level -his farm club to develop talent- providing local fighters work. I don't know how many shows he promoted but he was active in Florida from the forties till the earlyt nineties and in his his twenty peak years he easily promoted over 600 club shows and in his last years he was still doing 8 or 10 shows a year.
Chris was a GREAT promoter and he had a crew of feathers and lightweights that fought each other over and over. Look at the records of Eddie Ludlow, Bobby Marie, Sandy Seabrooke, Grady MClendon, Emilio Garcia, Santos Flores and those they fought. Chris did not make a lot of money in the club shows -the money was in the big fights, the TV fights or booking fighters in Vegas or Europe- but he was a real promoter, more important in a historical context than Angelo.
I worked with him many times and learned a lot from him. He would argue for an hour over a dollar on a contract, but every thanksgiving he gathered a large group of trainers and broken nose pugs and pay the bill at a good restaurant, buying meals for twenty or thirty of his boys.
Jerry Powers is still around. I hear he works at a BBQ restaurant in Miami. He was a light puncher who threw a lot of leather, thrilled the crowds and usually fought other prelim fighters like himself and was seldom hurt or stopped. Jerry was likeable, popular and current promoters wish they had a dozen fighters like the Prince of Second Avenue.
Condon told me Chris Dundee was the lowest level individual he had ever had the displeasure of dealing with.
Numerous times when Madison Square Garden announced a new fight card they would get a call from Chris Dundee claiming he had a "contract" with one of the fighters involved (written on a piece of toilet paper) and that he was going to sue to hold the card up unless he was paid off.
Chris Dundee is known in Philly as the tip of the iceberg for the mob.
As was his stooge brother, Angelo, who is known in Philly as "the guy who used to sweep out his brother's gym."
Your sob story about "every thanksgiving he gathered a large group of trainers and broken nose pugs and pay the bill at a good restaurant, buying meals for twenty or thirty of his boys"
caused me to sob uncontrollably at the kindness and unbelievable spirituality of this saintly man.
Keep shoveling the horsesh*t, Enrique.
There are those of us who know well what Chris Dundee actually was.
re
Well considering that Enrique knew both Dundee's personally I think I'd favor Enrique's view...not to mention that Enrique has been a very respected historian for decades by most all in the field! If someone were to actually do some actual research from the era they would learn first hand what kind of promoter Dundee was...hell, you wouldn't have to do any heavy duty research...just get all the Ring mags, Boxing Illustrated, Boxing and Wrestling and other boxing mags of the day...they all illustrate the career of Chris Dundee quite well during those days!
>>>There are those of us who know well what Chris Dundee actually was.<<<
Let me see, one guy who not only doesn't know Dundee, but also obviously has not done any kind of research on the man claims to know very well what Dundee was...while on the other hand a very well respected boxing historian, who has been a respected historian in the boxing community for decades and who has specialized in south eastern boxing research not only knew Dundee personally, but he also covered and was witness to many of Dundee's fight cards...gee...who would you guys choose to believe?
I think I'll go with the individual who has a lot of first hand personal knowledge on the issue!
>>>There are those of us who know well what Chris Dundee actually was.<<<
Let me see, one guy who not only doesn't know Dundee, but also obviously has not done any kind of research on the man claims to know very well what Dundee was...while on the other hand a very well respected boxing historian, who has been a respected historian in the boxing community for decades and who has specialized in south eastern boxing research not only knew Dundee personally, but he also covered and was witness to many of Dundee's fight cards...gee...who would you guys choose to believe?
I think I'll go with the individual who has a lot of first hand personal knowledge on the issue!
Re: re
Barry, here is your assignment:barry wrote:Well considering that Enrique knew both Dundee's personally I think I'd favor Enrique's view...not to mention that Enrique has been a very respected historian for decades by most all in the field! If someone were to actually do some actual research from the era they would learn first hand what kind of promoter Dundee was...hell, you wouldn't have to do any heavy duty research...just get all the Ring mags, Boxing Illustrated, Boxing and Wrestling and other boxing mags of the day...they all illustrate the career of Chris Dundee quite well during those days!
>>>There are those of us who know well what Chris Dundee actually was.<<<
Let me see, one guy who not only doesn't know Dundee, but also obviously has not done any kind of research on the man claims to know very well what Dundee was...while on the other hand a very well respected boxing historian, who has been a respected historian in the boxing community for decades and who has specialized in south eastern boxing research not only knew Dundee personally, but he also covered and was witness to many of Dundee's fight cards...gee...who would you guys choose to believe?
I think I'll go with the individual who has a lot of first hand personal knowledge on the issue!
Look up and learn the difference between "historian" and "shill."
Granberry:
In answer to your most insulting comments:
Yes, Chris did have some mob connections as did every single manager and promoter who was active during the Carbo days. No denying that.
Yes, Chris did have the habit of signing every Florida fighhter he could to promotional agreements in order to protect his territory from competition and he did expect a comission when the garden or Vegas or anyone else wanted to use a Florida fighter to fatten a record.
He was not Saint Francis of Assisi. He made deals. He protected some fighters and did not protect others. I have been in boxing over 40 years -since I was 12- and I've seen a lot worse and not many better.
Bottom line is he was a great promoter who put on a lot of fights and when he died and I was at his funeral, the place was packed with former fighters he promoted -Frankie Otero, Tommy Torino, Uriah Grant etc.
As to whether I am a historian or a shill, here's my resume: my writings included co authoring a book with Hank kaplan, being a consultant in several movies and documentaries -including Cinderella Man-doing three monthly columns on boxing and my resume includes publishing in Ring, Boxing Digest, Boxing Illustrated, Fight Game, CBZ etc. i was also a fighter (26-9 amateur record, a manager (40 fighters including Robert Daniels) matchmaker for ten years, color commentator on international broadcasts, and I've been involved in 14 world title fights promotion.
I hope this clears up your views on Chris and myself.
In answer to your most insulting comments:
Yes, Chris did have some mob connections as did every single manager and promoter who was active during the Carbo days. No denying that.
Yes, Chris did have the habit of signing every Florida fighhter he could to promotional agreements in order to protect his territory from competition and he did expect a comission when the garden or Vegas or anyone else wanted to use a Florida fighter to fatten a record.
He was not Saint Francis of Assisi. He made deals. He protected some fighters and did not protect others. I have been in boxing over 40 years -since I was 12- and I've seen a lot worse and not many better.
Bottom line is he was a great promoter who put on a lot of fights and when he died and I was at his funeral, the place was packed with former fighters he promoted -Frankie Otero, Tommy Torino, Uriah Grant etc.
As to whether I am a historian or a shill, here's my resume: my writings included co authoring a book with Hank kaplan, being a consultant in several movies and documentaries -including Cinderella Man-doing three monthly columns on boxing and my resume includes publishing in Ring, Boxing Digest, Boxing Illustrated, Fight Game, CBZ etc. i was also a fighter (26-9 amateur record, a manager (40 fighters including Robert Daniels) matchmaker for ten years, color commentator on international broadcasts, and I've been involved in 14 world title fights promotion.
I hope this clears up your views on Chris and myself.
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dr_devious
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5348
- Joined: 29 Dec 2005, 09:19
Granberry--
I know I won't change your mind about Chris but I knew the man for over twenty years and I know all his good and bad points, and he had plenty of both. He was a promoter and a very good one and a character of Runyonesque proportions. If he is being badmouthed in your neck of the woods.... well maybe those guys did not do well doing business with Chris or held a grugde over a fighter or were bigger scum than the man they so disliked.... leave it at that.
As for Cinderella Man I agree that Max Baer was portrayed inaccurately.
Mike Delisa, Hank Kaplan and I provided accurate information, even with statements by Baer about his guilt over the deaths he caused, but we were consultants, not directors and the director and the screen writer has the final say.
Actually, even the screen writer does not have final say. I have done four scripts and they have all been subject to change if the director and producer so desire,
I imagine Ron Howard needed a villain. It's better film than having a nice guy beat another nice guy.
On the whole the movie was very close to history. Some details are changed but the integrity of the character remains. the scene where his manager says -Jimmy you gotta stop some of them punches- and Braddock answers- You don't see any of them go by, do you?- that scene really happened in the Loughran fight but the line was too good to pass up even when the Loughran fight was not portrayed in the film.
I know I won't change your mind about Chris but I knew the man for over twenty years and I know all his good and bad points, and he had plenty of both. He was a promoter and a very good one and a character of Runyonesque proportions. If he is being badmouthed in your neck of the woods.... well maybe those guys did not do well doing business with Chris or held a grugde over a fighter or were bigger scum than the man they so disliked.... leave it at that.
As for Cinderella Man I agree that Max Baer was portrayed inaccurately.
Mike Delisa, Hank Kaplan and I provided accurate information, even with statements by Baer about his guilt over the deaths he caused, but we were consultants, not directors and the director and the screen writer has the final say.
Actually, even the screen writer does not have final say. I have done four scripts and they have all been subject to change if the director and producer so desire,
I imagine Ron Howard needed a villain. It's better film than having a nice guy beat another nice guy.
On the whole the movie was very close to history. Some details are changed but the integrity of the character remains. the scene where his manager says -Jimmy you gotta stop some of them punches- and Braddock answers- You don't see any of them go by, do you?- that scene really happened in the Loughran fight but the line was too good to pass up even when the Loughran fight was not portrayed in the film.
re
Enrique---Ignore this guy...Your time is certainly a lot more valuable to the boxing community than it would be wasting your time with little grannyberry...but he tries to involve others in his obviously miserable life...that is why people like him will always be ignored by the actual researchers of the sport as he obviously does not have the know-how to look-up a topic...which of course that is obvious to everyone else except granny!
In fact...instead of arguing with him, which is always a waste of time, just let me know when he writes something insulting and I'll delete it from the site!
Now granberry...if you want to actually debate a boxing issue...great...have fun, but your typical insults are just going to be deleted from the record...now the choice is yours...debate like a sensible adult, or not have a voice at all...thats all on you!!!
In fact...instead of arguing with him, which is always a waste of time, just let me know when he writes something insulting and I'll delete it from the site!
Now granberry...if you want to actually debate a boxing issue...great...have fun, but your typical insults are just going to be deleted from the record...now the choice is yours...debate like a sensible adult, or not have a voice at all...thats all on you!!!
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I Feel Fine
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 2097
- Joined: 10 Apr 2007, 16:48
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bobcat
- Heavyweight
not sure why i'm bothering to respond to this,i must be bored i guess. everyone has seen the fights you mention,the rest of us just don't wear tinfoil hats and look for conspiracies in every corner while we watch them.that being said,i do not want to put words in enrique's mouth about the portrayal of baer in the film.but i presume that they needed a vilain for the film,that that is how hollywood works,and as he tried to explain to you someone in his position can only be a consultant with no final say.as he stated that is up to the producer and director ultimately. when he said it makes it a better film,im quite sure he meant it makes it a better "good vs. bad" type of dynamic,which is something that is needed in this kind of film for it to be successful and to make money.remember,this is a hollywood big budget production,not a boxing documentary.granberry wrote:Enrique,enrique wrote:Granberry--
I know I won't change your mind about Chris but I knew the man for over twenty years and I know all his good and bad points, and he had plenty of both. He was a promoter and a very good one and a character of Runyonesque proportions. If he is being badmouthed in your neck of the woods.... well maybe those guys did not do well doing business with Chris or held a grugde over a fighter or were bigger scum than the man they so disliked.... leave it at that.
As for Cinderella Man I agree that Max Baer was portrayed inaccurately.
Mike Delisa, Hank Kaplan and I provided accurate information, even with statements by Baer about his guilt over the deaths he caused, but we were consultants, not directors and the director and the screen writer has the final say.
Actually, even the screen writer does not have final say. I have done four scripts and they have all been subject to change if the director and producer so desire,
I imagine Ron Howard needed a villain. It's better film than having a nice guy beat another nice guy.
On the whole the movie was very close to history. Some details are changed but the integrity of the character remains. the scene where his manager says -Jimmy you gotta stop some of them punches- and Braddock answers- You don't see any of them go by, do you?- that scene really happened in the Loughran fight but the line was too good to pass up even when the Loughran fight was not portrayed in the film.
I have films of Braddock losing a 15 round decision to Tommy Loughran for the lightheavyweight title,
beating Max Baer in 15 rounds for the heavyweight title.
losing by an 8 round KO to Joe Louis in defense of his heavyweight title
and winning a ten round decision over Tommy Farr.
That's all the films of Braddock I need.
Opie's Hollywood version of 'boxing' is something I can do very well without.
Falsely portraying Baer does not make a "better" film, in my opinion.
It makes a reprehensible film.
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Joe Louis was the absoloute master of the rematch, he was always better in the returns than he was in the first go. Against Schmeling he lost the first time, in the return he absoloutely destroyed him. Against Buddy Baer it went seven, in the return it went one. Against Walcott it went the distance, second time it went eleven. Against Conn it went thirteen, in the return it went eight. And so on and so forth.
Not even Ali had that great of returns, sure he won impressively against Frazier in their trilogy, but he didn't bring a much greater level than the time before, like Louis done in his matches. Think about it, Ali went 2-1-0 against Norton, though if truth be told Norton won the first and the last of those bouts. Ali's trilogy with Frazier was 2-1-0, but each fight was practically a life and death struggle. Ali was 1-1-0 against Leon Spinks, both fights going the distance and were rather dull and boring affairs. Ali went 2-0-0 against Liston, and you might as well say the second fight was either a fluke or a no-contest because Liston obviously didn't want to fight.
With Louis's fights, he came back better every time out. He always felt he had to better himself, and he always proved it, every time out...except of course in his later years, when he wasn't able to put away the likes of Cesar Brion in their matches, though he went 2-0 against him.
Not even Ali had that great of returns, sure he won impressively against Frazier in their trilogy, but he didn't bring a much greater level than the time before, like Louis done in his matches. Think about it, Ali went 2-1-0 against Norton, though if truth be told Norton won the first and the last of those bouts. Ali's trilogy with Frazier was 2-1-0, but each fight was practically a life and death struggle. Ali was 1-1-0 against Leon Spinks, both fights going the distance and were rather dull and boring affairs. Ali went 2-0-0 against Liston, and you might as well say the second fight was either a fluke or a no-contest because Liston obviously didn't want to fight.
With Louis's fights, he came back better every time out. He always felt he had to better himself, and he always proved it, every time out...except of course in his later years, when he wasn't able to put away the likes of Cesar Brion in their matches, though he went 2-0 against him.
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BigJuicyHog
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 749
- Joined: 11 Oct 2005, 22:24
Why did Barry delete my post quoted above?bobcat wrote:not sure why i'm bothering to respond to this,i must be bored i guess. everyone has seen the fights you mention,the rest of us just don't wear tinfoil hats and look for conspiracies in every corner while we watch them.that being said,i do not want to put words in enrique's mouth about the portrayal of baer in the film.but i presume that they needed a vilain for the film,that that is how hollywood works,and as he tried to explain to you someone in his position can only be a consultant with no final say.as he stated that is up to the producer and director ultimately. when he said it makes it a better film,im quite sure he meant it makes it a better "good vs. bad" type of dynamic,which is something that is needed in this kind of film for it to be successful and to make money.remember,this is a hollywood big budget production,not a boxing documentary.granberry wrote:Enrique,enrique wrote:Granberry--
I know I won't change your mind about Chris but I knew the man for over twenty years and I know all his good and bad points, and he had plenty of both. He was a promoter and a very good one and a character of Runyonesque proportions. If he is being badmouthed in your neck of the woods.... well maybe those guys did not do well doing business with Chris or held a grugde over a fighter or were bigger scum than the man they so disliked.... leave it at that.
As for Cinderella Man I agree that Max Baer was portrayed inaccurately.
Mike Delisa, Hank Kaplan and I provided accurate information, even with statements by Baer about his guilt over the deaths he caused, but we were consultants, not directors and the director and the screen writer has the final say.
Actually, even the screen writer does not have final say. I have done four scripts and they have all been subject to change if the director and producer so desire,
I imagine Ron Howard needed a villain. It's better film than having a nice guy beat another nice guy.
On the whole the movie was very close to history. Some details are changed but the integrity of the character remains. the scene where his manager says -Jimmy you gotta stop some of them punches- and Braddock answers- You don't see any of them go by, do you?- that scene really happened in the Loughran fight but the line was too good to pass up even when the Loughran fight was not portrayed in the film.
I have films of Braddock losing a 15 round decision to Tommy Loughran for the lightheavyweight title,
beating Max Baer in 15 rounds for the heavyweight title.
losing by an 8 round KO to Joe Louis in defense of his heavyweight title
and winning a ten round decision over Tommy Farr.
That's all the films of Braddock I need.
Opie's Hollywood version of 'boxing' is something I can do very well without.
Falsely portraying Baer does not make a "better" film, in my opinion.
It makes a reprehensible film.
HERE IT IS AGAIN:
Enrique,
I have films of Braddock losing a 15 round decision to Tommy Loughran for the lightheavyweight title,
beating Max Baer in 15 rounds for the heavyweight title.
losing by an 8 round KO to Joe Louis in defense of his heavyweight title
and winning a ten round decision over Tommy Farr.
That's all the films of Braddock I need.
Opie's Hollywood version of 'boxing' is something I can do very well without.
Falsely portraying Baer does not make a "better" film, in my opinion.
It makes a reprehensible film.
re
I deleted that one along with all of your very insulting posts toward Enrique...just as I told you I would if you did not straighten up and stop insulting everyone you see and as I will do again if you continue to insult members!!! As I have said to you time and again...if you want to debate boxing in a decent and adult manner...great...have all the fun you want...you sometimes have some intelligent thoughts on the sport, but you ruin anything good that you may say by throwing insults toward everyone who may disagree with you!!!
Barry,
I have posted that I do not consider you competent on the topic of boxing.
Your post on the Gans-McGovern fake shows that you lack knowledge of the most basic aspects of boxing.
You were getting slaughtered on the thread I started where I posted your private email to me.
http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=76510
So you blocked the thread.
It is hilarious that you, who can't stomach the slighest disagreement or opposition,
have the gall to connect yourself with "boxing."
It is your type that finds its refuge on the internet.
It is your type that clusters to the self-proiclaimed "expert" groups that pretend to know something about boxing.
You don't have a clue what boxing is.
What would you do if you found yourself in a ring and an opponent threw a punch at you?
I can tell what you would (attempt) to do:
You would demand that the punch be deleted
and threaten to have the opponent banned.
But it doesn't work that way in the real world.
(unfortunately for the Barry's of the world).
I have posted that I do not consider you competent on the topic of boxing.
Your post on the Gans-McGovern fake shows that you lack knowledge of the most basic aspects of boxing.
You were getting slaughtered on the thread I started where I posted your private email to me.
http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=76510
So you blocked the thread.
It is hilarious that you, who can't stomach the slighest disagreement or opposition,
have the gall to connect yourself with "boxing."
It is your type that finds its refuge on the internet.
It is your type that clusters to the self-proiclaimed "expert" groups that pretend to know something about boxing.
You don't have a clue what boxing is.
What would you do if you found yourself in a ring and an opponent threw a punch at you?
I can tell what you would (attempt) to do:
You would demand that the punch be deleted
and threaten to have the opponent banned.
But it doesn't work that way in the real world.
(unfortunately for the Barry's of the world).
OK granberry, I see your going for a rematch here.....
let me remind you of several areas that in fact YOU are the one in favor of simple "deletions".
You would delete the outcome of Both the Liston-Clay and Ali-Liston fights
You would delete the outcome of the Thrilla in Manilla
You would delete the outcome of many of Sugar Ray's fights
You would delete the outcome of any fight that didnt go your way
Let's just hope that you do not assume controlling interest of Fight Fax which is currently for sale or sadly with out a single punch thrown it is YOU that would head straight for the delete button.........overiding what ACTUALLY HAPPENS IN THE RING.
For someone who says they know boxing...it appears you are doomed to be guilty of your own wimpy accusations. You may know boxing but by many standards you appear to be very wimpy.
HOWEVER, I will gladly buy you a hamburger today. IF you will promise to pay me Tuesday.
let me remind you of several areas that in fact YOU are the one in favor of simple "deletions".
You would delete the outcome of Both the Liston-Clay and Ali-Liston fights
You would delete the outcome of the Thrilla in Manilla
You would delete the outcome of many of Sugar Ray's fights
You would delete the outcome of any fight that didnt go your way
Let's just hope that you do not assume controlling interest of Fight Fax which is currently for sale or sadly with out a single punch thrown it is YOU that would head straight for the delete button.........overiding what ACTUALLY HAPPENS IN THE RING.
For someone who says they know boxing...it appears you are doomed to be guilty of your own wimpy accusations. You may know boxing but by many standards you appear to be very wimpy.
HOWEVER, I will gladly buy you a hamburger today. IF you will promise to pay me Tuesday.