Referee Screw-ups

crooked nose · Post by **crooked nose** » 17 Jan 2004, 20:40

I just bought a batch of tapes from boxingvideoclassics.com (great site - check it out) and watched the tragic Benn-McClellan bout. It's appalling how badly the ref screwed up in that crucial first round. Why was he stepping in front of McClellan and stopping him from finishing off Benn?
That got me thinking of other instances where the ref may have impacted the outcome. Joe Walcott sure screwed up in Ali-Liston II. And who was the ref in Dempsey-Tunney II with the long count?
Can anyone think of other examples?

Steve M · Post by **Steve M** » 17 Jan 2004, 21:41

Duran/buchanan

crooked nose · Post by **crooked nose** » 17 Jan 2004, 21:50

That was at MSG. Ref was John LoBianco. Duran was going to win that fight, but look at that tape - he lands a low blow after the bell, and the ref doesn't give Buchanan any recovery time or award him a DQ win. Probably afraid of the crowd.

Remember Arthur Mercante in Ali-Frazier I? Separating the fighters, he stuck a finger in Joe's eye. Didn't affect the outcome, but what if?

The_Power · Post by **The_Power** » 18 Jan 2004, 10:12

Some People will tell you the Tyson-Douglus ref took a silly count. Octavio i think his name was.

zurdo · Post by **zurdo** » 18 Jan 2004, 12:44

The_Power wrote:Some People will tell you the Tyson-Douglus ref took a silly count. Octavio i think his name was.

Yeah which in turn gave rise to one of Don Kings most disgraceful performances ever as he tried to wangle a "W" for Mike Tyson despite the fact that he was clearly dominated and knocked senseless by Douglas

lamphey · Post by **lamphey** » 18 Jan 2004, 12:54

The ref of Freddie Norwood v Derek Gainer totally lost the plot.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 18 Jan 2004, 13:41

Referee Joey Curtis stopped Mike Weaver against Michael Dokes in 63 seconds in 1982, with Weaver under pressure on the ropes but hardly in a desperate situation.
They met a few months later and drew over 15 rounds.

sweetsci · Post by **sweetsci** » 18 Jan 2004, 16:01

What about Ali-Frazier II? I haven't seen it in a while, but I recall Ali having Frazier in serious trouble in the second found when Tony Perez seperated them, mistakingly thinking he'd heard the bell ending the round.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 18 Jan 2004, 17:37

bennie wrote:Referee Joey Curtis stopped Mike Weaver against Michael Dokes in 63 seconds in 1982, with Weaver under pressure on the ropes but hardly in a desperate situation.
They met a few months later and drew over 15 rounds.

Yes that was just after the Ray Mancini/Deuk-Koo Kim tragedy, and everybody agreed Curtis completely overreacted as a result.

Excellent ref Richard Steel of course got booed for the rest of his career after the Tyson/Ruddock & Chavez/Taylor stopages.
Both were debatable calls in big fights, but at least the Chavez fight goes down as one of the most memorable fights of the 90's as a result of Steel stopping it when he did.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 18 Jan 2004, 17:46

zurdo wrote:
The_Power wrote:Some People will tell you the Tyson-Douglus ref took a silly count. Octavio i think his name was.
Yeah which in turn gave rise to one of Don Kings most disgraceful performances ever as he tried to wangle a "W" for Mike Tyson despite the fact that he was clearly dominated and knocked senseless by Douglas

yeah king trying to get the result changed to a win was madness. but the ref still screwed up

u can c in the picture when douglas is floored the chief second is on 5 and the ref (octavio meyran) starts at 3

he's looking around for the chief second but i'm sure he doesn't notice him cos he doesn't look to where the chief second is so just starts at 3.

mapp35 · Post by **mapp35** » 19 Jan 2004, 18:04

Taylor-Chavez....No Steele should of stopped that fight wiht 2 seconds left...great fight though.

Dave1armedTua · Post by **Dave1armedTua** » 19 Jan 2004, 18:09

The "long" count in Tyson/Douglas didn't make any difference though. Douglas wasn't hurt, and was waiting to get up at 8-9. He was following the refs count, like you are supposed to. If the ref had started at 5 instead of 3, Douglas simply would have gotten up 2 seconds sooner.

The ref did the same thing later in the fight when Tyson got knocked down, giving him 2 extra seconds, and he still couldn't get up in time. No one mentions that part though.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 19 Jan 2004, 18:18

Dave1armedTua wrote:The "long" count in Tyson/Douglas didn't make any difference though. Douglas wasn't hurt, and was waiting to get up at 8-9. He was following the refs count, like you are supposed to. If the ref had started at 5 instead of 3, Douglas simply would have gotten up 2 seconds sooner.

The ref did the same thing later in the fight when Tyson got knocked down, giving him 2 extra seconds, and he still couldn't get up in time. No one mentions that part though.

yeah douglas would have beaten the count he was just sitting it out to clear his head

although he cuts it fine doesn't he some refs would have been tempted to stop him in the act of rising.

seattledirk · Post by **seattledirk** » 19 Jan 2004, 23:23

Rocchigiani - Michalczewski I.

Don't remember the ref's name, he was as fat as he was incompetent.
Rocky hit Michalczewski after the "break" signal from the ref (which was indeed hard to hear) with a soft right hand. What followed was a Zab Judah-like dance performance of Michalczewski who hadn't decided yet if he wanted to go down or not (he was way behind on points).

After counting out Michalczewski the ref looked confused, turned to Rocchigiani and said, "you fouled, you fouled".
Two minutes later, Michalczewski still refused to continue fighting, the ref disqualified Rocchigiani.
--------------------------------

This must have been the worst performance of a ref that I've ever seen.

crooked nose · Post by **crooked nose** » 20 Jan 2004, 01:49

And remember that ref in the Olympics who DQ'd Holyfield? Evander was in the middle of throwing a perfect left hook when our hero yells "Stop!" Holyfield's punch cold-cocked his opponent, some big Kiwi lumberjack, and he gets DQ'd. Truth is the ref should have DQ'd the other guy for constant holding. Well, it turned out OK because Holyfield was able to have a bit of a pro career for himself.

And lay off Steele for the Chavez-Taylor stoppage. Chavez nailed him, put him down and almost out. There was still time for JC to land one more punch, which might have been fatal. It wasn't Steele's job to watch the clock. It was Taylor's job to stay out of trouble. And it was Duva's job to tell Meldrick that, but he didn't.

The Keed · Post by **The Keed** » 20 Jan 2004, 11:28

seattledirk wrote:Rocchigiani - Michalczewski I.

Don't remember the ref's name, he was as fat as he was incompetent.
Rocky hit Michalczewski after the "break" signal from the ref (which was indeed hard to hear) with a soft right hand. What followed was a Zab Judah-like dance performance of Michalczewski who hadn't decided yet if he wanted to go down or not (he was way behind on points).

After counting out Michalczewski the ref looked confused, turned to Rocchigiani and said, "you fouled, you fouled".
Two minutes later, Michalczewski still refused to continue fighting, the ref disqualified Rocchigiani.
--------------------------------

This must have been the worst performance of a ref that I've ever seen.

He also ignored Dariusz's use of his head, which caused a cut on Rocky, but warned Rocky for a retaliatory butt and for pushing off Dariusz with his forearm (to counter Dariusz's butts).

The referee for the Prince Hamed v. Augie Sanchez fight was one of the worst I've ever seen.

Lickszz · Post by **Lickszz** » 23 Jan 2004, 19:41

Ali v Liston II is the biggest screw up I've ever seen by a referee.

joeyatwal · Post by **joeyatwal** » 26 Jan 2004, 03:11

mapp35 wrote:Taylor-Chavez....No Steele should of stopped that fight wiht 2 seconds left...great fight though.

taylor got screwed nicely.....

i also think jay nady shouldnt have stopped the judah, tszyu fight....nady should have been aware that the round had ended....

Dave1armedTua · Post by **Dave1armedTua** » 26 Jan 2004, 03:38

You can't be saved by the bell though; especially when you decide to quit boxing and take up dancing in the middle of a ten count.

Jack1000 · Post by **Jack1000** » 26 Jan 2004, 17:33

Rocchigiani - Michalczewski I.

Don't remember the ref's name, he was as fat as he was incompetent.
Rocky hit Michalczewski after the "break" signal from the ref (which was indeed hard to hear) with a soft right hand. What followed was a Zab Judah-like dance performance of Michalczewski who hadn't decided yet if he wanted to go down or not (he was way behind on points).

Well I don't remember too much detail of the fight, but if you hit on the break, that is indeed a foul. I do remember that Michaecz was "over-dramatizing the effects of the foul", and being in Germany, the ref caved into pressure to DQ Rocchig. (However, Roc, was also German, but Daris was the hometown guy)

Jack

RAPID · Post by **RAPID** » 26 Jan 2004, 20:07

The biggest srew up has to be, without a doubt Tony Perez in
Frazier and Ali's fights. It's incredible that Tony Perez allowed Ali to illegally grab Frazier around the neck and also to use an open glove.
Clearly breaking the rules and pay close attention next time you see
the fight.

The Keed · Post by **The Keed** » 26 Jan 2004, 20:20

RAPID wrote:The biggest srew up has to be, without a doubt Tony Perez in
Frazier and Ali's fights. It's incredible that Tony Perez allowed Ali to illegally grab Frazier around the neck and also to use an open glove.
Clearly breaking the rules and pay close attention next time you see
the fight.

He also separated the fighters in the middle of the 2nd round, when Ali was having a good rally, and sent them back to their corners because he said the bell had rung.

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