Joe Louis - Rocky Marciano - Ali - Who beats Who?

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 26 Jan 2008, 13:16

Doing another post inspired me to do this thread - Many years ago in the 70s a TV program was made to try and see which of these three champions was the ultimate champion - All the stats were compared to try and reach a decision - Ali won but it was a contraversial decision. Not sure if I can do a poll correctly so you can vote, perhaps a moderator could help out here if I havent got it right - Opinions on why you voted a particular first would also be interesting to see - Lets see if Ali does it again!!!

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 26 Jan 2008, 13:32

Marciano might be the most powerful of the trio, but with Ali's chin I reckon Ali would win a decision over 15 rounds.

Louis and Ali is a tough fight to call. Both had phonomenal skills, speed and timing, but Louis had the better power and Ali had the better balance and defence. I'd go for Ali on a split decision.

chesh · Post by **chesh** » 26 Jan 2008, 14:00

Ali outpoints Louis and probably busts Rocky up for a late stoppage. Second place goes to Louis who gets off the deck in the early rounds to take a clear UD over Marciano.

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 26 Jan 2008, 15:34

Ali is just two technical for them 2. i personally think Ali v Louis will be more interesting and Closer, but i see Ali Coming through

STP · Post by **STP** » 26 Jan 2008, 19:22

Louis does the other two. His short crispers beat Rock's strong clubs. He cuts Ali down masterfully, lands a couple of bodyshots per round and counter right hands per round, and at some point in the 45 minutes scores the KD drops with the left hook as Ali drops his right hand to throw a right uppercut off the ropes with Louis in close.

Honest.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 26 Jan 2008, 23:48

Ali or Louis.

Marciano is a level below.

Asterix · Post by **Asterix** » 27 Jan 2008, 01:38

Didn't Marciano weigh below 190 for his whole career? I mean, that's small that our current Cruiserweights. I think Marciano is pretty impressive. He looked tiny against Joe Louis.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 27 Jan 2008, 10:12

Asterix wrote:Didn't Marciano weigh below 190 for his whole career? I mean, that's small that our current Cruiserweights. I think Marciano is pretty impressive. He looked tiny against Joe Louis.

He was 190 when he fought Louis. He relied an awful lot on his power to compensate. Phenomenal puncher.

Rocky Balboa · Post by **Rocky Balboa** » 27 Jan 2008, 13:20

Marciano didn't have the skill levels of Ali & Louis, but for a guy who weighed only 190lbs, small compared to today's Cruiserweight's, Rocky was a phenomenal puncher, had great stamina, & was someone who would try, try & try, never giving up.

I can't Marciano beating Louis or Ali. I think the difference in skill level would have been too much. Louis also had power to match Marciano, so that would make a huge difference. Ali would have had too much speed, variety & movement for Rocky.

Louis-Ali would have been a great fight. However, Louis was a very precise puncher, but could also box well. I'm not saying Louis could have outboxed Ali, but I think Joe would have taken him, most likely winning by SD.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 27 Jan 2008, 16:27

Ali's speed would have been too much for Louis, and the reach and size difference would have been too much. Louis beat some big men, but none of them as good or as quick as ali.

louis himself said he would not have wanted to face marciano in his prime as he hated being crowded, and Louis could be hit and hurt throughout his career. Marciano was just so, so tough, and I suspect Marciano might have got to him late.

Ali and Marciano I think is a mistmatch. Marciano might last the distance, and might even drop Ali at some point, but he would have taken a hell of a lot of punishment.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 27 Jan 2008, 16:40

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Ali's speed would have been too much for Louis, and the reach and size difference would have been too much. Louis beat some big men, but none of them as good or as quick as ali.

louis himself said he would not have wanted to face marciano in his prime as he hated being crowded, and Louis could be hit and hurt throughout his career. Marciano was just so, so tough, and I suspect Marciano might have got to him late.

Ali and Marciano I think is a mistmatch. Marciano might last the distance, and might even drop Ali at some point, but he would have taken a hell of a lot of punishment.

Forget weight advantages, The best HW in the world is David Haye.

Ali, Louis, and Marciano would have given each other a lot of trouble, but Louis would hav come out on top. The other two were overrated.

Asterix · Post by **Asterix** » 27 Jan 2008, 17:20

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:
Asterix wrote:Didn't Marciano weigh below 190 for his whole career? I mean, that's small that our current Cruiserweights. I think Marciano is pretty impressive. He looked tiny against Joe Louis.
He was 190 when he fought Louis. He relied an awful lot on his power to compensate. Phenomenal puncher.

Boxrec says 184 lbs.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 27 Jan 2008, 17:40

Asterix wrote:
Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:
Asterix wrote:Didn't Marciano weigh below 190 for his whole career? I mean, that's small that our current Cruiserweights. I think Marciano is pretty impressive. He looked tiny against Joe Louis.
He was 190 when he fought Louis. He relied an awful lot on his power to compensate. Phenomenal puncher.
Boxrec says 184 lbs.

Thanks, my ESPN Classics commentator is full of crp, damnit!

Wasn't he 185 against Charles as well?

Asterix · Post by **Asterix** » 27 Jan 2008, 19:15

Boxrec says 187½ first time and 187 the second time. Ezzard Charles put on 7 lbs in the 3 months between the fights.

I like the fact that Boxrec now shows the fighters weights, not just their opponents!

STP · Post by **STP** » 27 Jan 2008, 19:22

I see Louis jabbing with Ali and out-jabbing him, jab and step, jab and step, Louis's stance/defence was near-perfect and he wasn't all that jabbable, I see him getting him to the ropes and from there Ali has to drop his right hand to throw the right uppercut.

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 27 Jan 2008, 19:39

I'd pick Ali to come out on top. Marciano would be far to slow to beat a guy like Ali and I think Louis would get picked apart as well. I think Foreman would pummel both Marciano and Louis in a head to head match up as well. Foreman's legacy will be forever tainted by the loss to Ali, but he was a monster. A lot of people may disagree, but I think Foreman would have beaten Ali on any night other than the one he lost. Foreman showed how great he was by still kicking arse in his 40's.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 28 Jan 2008, 08:37

ArtOfWar wrote:I'd pick Ali to come out on top. Marciano would be far to slow to beat a guy like Ali and I think Louis would get picked apart as well. I think Foreman would pummel both Marciano and Louis in a head to head match up as well. Foreman's legacy will be forever tainted by the loss to Ali, but he was a monster. A lot of people may disagree, but I think Foreman would have beaten Ali on any night other than the one he lost. Foreman showed how great he was by still kicking arse in his 40's.

I do actually agree - Ali hadnt KOd anybody in a while and was the underdog - Foreman just couldnt lose, but he did.

Rob Magic · Post by **Rob Magic** » 28 Jan 2008, 13:49

chesh wrote:Ali outpoints Louis and probably busts Rocky up for a late stoppage. Second place goes to Louis who gets off the deck in the early rounds to take a clear UD over Marciano.

Marciano knocked Louis out in 8 rounds so that answers that one

chesh · Post by **chesh** » 28 Jan 2008, 21:53

Rob Magic wrote:
chesh wrote:Ali outpoints Louis and probably busts Rocky up for a late stoppage. Second place goes to Louis who gets off the deck in the early rounds to take a clear UD over Marciano.
Marciano knocked Louis out in 8 rounds so that answers that one

He might have had the same name and even looked the same, but that's not the Joe Louis that's being discussed here.

chesh · Post by **chesh** » 28 Jan 2008, 21:54

And Marciano knew he didn't beat the real Joe Louis.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 29 Jan 2008, 08:48

Ali for me, although any combination would be interesting. Think Ali's chin would be too strong for Marciano and Louis and I think he was the quicker boxer.

Joe Frazier was known as the Black Marciano and they did share some charactistics - power, the amazing ability to absorb punches, a great ability to use their lack of height and reach to their advantage (Frazier edges the Rock here though). However, I think Frazier was better technically than Marciano and I do think Ali was never in his prime when he faced Frazier.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Jan 2008, 09:09

chesh wrote:And Marciano knew he didn't beat the real Joe Louis.

Didn't Marciano reputedly cry after beating Louis?

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 29 Jan 2008, 09:17

Didn't Louis say he would have always had trouble with Marciano's style after they fought?

Rocky didn't beat a prime Joe of course, but that doesn't mean he couldn't.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Jan 2008, 09:22

Yes, as I mentioned earlier.

Louis said he 'always hated being crowded' by his opponents, and that Rocky's style would have given him big problems.

You would have to say though, that Louis hit plenty hard, and if that Archie Moore could drop Marciano, Louis could have probably done better.

Marciano never really faced any really good big hitters in his career, except for an overmatched Moore, who whilst a very powerful man, was not of the order of a heavyweight puncher like Louis, Foreman, Frazier or Liston. Marciano was lucky that he never had to face anyone like that.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 29 Jan 2008, 09:56

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
chesh wrote:And Marciano knew he didn't beat the real Joe Louis.
Didn't Marciano reputedly cry after beating Louis?

That's the story... He went into his dressing room afterwards, held his hand and cried...

Apparently after Holmes-Ali, Holmes walked by Ali's dressing room. Ali was all alone. Holmes looked in and said "I love you, man." Ali turned around and said "Then why'd you beat me up?"

Joe Louis - Rocky Marciano - Ali - Who beats Who?

Which fighter do you think is the ultimate champion

Joe Louis - Rocky Marciano - Ali - Who beats Who?