Today is the heavyweight golden age

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 26 Jan 2008, 08:25

http://www.britishboxing.net/news_3086- ... n-age.html

Don't hold back...

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 26 Jan 2008, 08:47

Deliberately provocative, which is no bad thing, but ruins some valid points by trying to provoke a reaction, most notably with regards to the likes of Ray Austin being able to live with the the likes of Ali, Foreman etc.
There are a number of claims that can be debunked but for me the most notable glaring weakness in the author's argument is that he completely dismisses the importance of skill and technique in the equation.
For example, I'm sure by any metric the individuals on the England football team would exceed their Croatian counterparts - speed over 100 metres, stamina, strength, nutrition etc, but this ultimately meant nothing as the Croatian team had superior skill and technique.
In the same manner, there appears little doubt that while heavyweights are bigger and have access to better nutrition etc, skill levels have declined, particularly concerning defence.
There are a number of factors at play here, including the TV pressures(favouring aggressive fighters, KOs etc) and also cultural factors - most notably the fact that the majority of heavier African-American athletes now choose NFL or basketball over boxing as they are more lucrative and offer less risk.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 26 Jan 2008, 09:28

I just find this has no substance at all for a valid argument. I've never boxed, although gonna start soon, and also have hundreds of hours of fights on DVD, but that doesn't make me an expert. There are no experts in any sport, just opinions.

Firstly, the size matters theory is the biggest load of scooby doo I've ever read on BBN. Klitschko got beaten by a smaller, out of shape has been/probably never was with only one eye!

And to say that fighters today are better conditioned is cod. How many rounds do they fight now? How often do they fight?

Fighters have better methods of treatment and recovery, due to physiotherapy and suppliments, nowadays but fighters of the pre 12 rounds era were disgustingly fit. Just read their biographies to see how hard they trained.

Could you imagine a fighter nowadays lasting in the heat that Ali did against Frazier of Robinson did against Maxim.

I could go into detail, but can't be bothered.

Ian, would I be allowed to scan a photo of my arse on BBN please? Would make more sense, and be more beneficial to boxing, than that article!

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 26 Jan 2008, 10:01

In a sence I think he has a point, when he says that the new breed of HW are enormouse, however I think that with HW boxing the quality is always down to the quality of 15-20 guys at the top while there are hundreds of sprinters around the world comming out of american collages and universities.

Does he honnestly think that Sprott, Skelton and Williams would have beat Lennox Lewis and if thats the case why did Williams the most naturaly gifted of the three fair so much worse against Klitschko than a fading lewis did.

I think that Lewis would have beaten any historic champion because of his size because of his jab and a whole load of things but I don't think that just cos Sprott Maskaev et al came a few years later means they would automaticaly be fitter.

Another idea I'd like to through in is what people think of the drop from 15 rounds to 12 rounds did to boxers over all fitness.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 26 Jan 2008, 11:06

No way Lewis would've beaten Louis or Ali. They were just too fast for Lewis.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 26 Jan 2008, 12:40

Theoretically it maybe a good arguement, but theories are just theories while facts are another matter - Training and diet should be a lot better as we know a lot more today about these things than we did years ago - Young men are generally bigger and have better phisiques now than when I was young - In a way they are like battery chickens, they have size and look good, but are they - We ate good wholesome food, proper meat and veggies, not burgers in buns and other junk food - Fish was cheap back then and we were able to afford good fish in large portions - We had proper bread, proper milk got a few bugs in our systems and didnt need anti biotics like we do today to make us well again - We were probably tougher than the youngsters of today, but generally smaller - I was 6 foot at 15, very tall for the times - I wouldnt argue about athletic achievements and records being broken over and over again - I actually remember Roger Bannister achieveing the first 4 minute mile, what the current record is I dont know - My problem is believing Danny Williams could beat Ali, Sprott could beat Frazier, Skelton could beat a prime Tyson, Chagaev could beat Lewis - This arguement was made into a TV program years ago using Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano and M. Ali, three fighters from different times - The progam had Ali winning but a lot of people didnt agree with the result - Boxing I think is different to other sports especially since the KO can cancel out all that the opponent had done in earlier rounds - As you well know there are boxers and fighters - Some boxers/fighters no matter how good they are fair badly against southpaws - The variables make boxing different to the other sports where its first past the post - I therefore feel your arguement isnt factual but theoretically I can see what you are trying to say - I agree having had an involvement in boxing/fighting your opinion has to be respected but was Enzo Calzaghe a champion or even a boxer, yet he is definately the best trainer in the country and maybe the world - I agree we have a go at strikers for missing an open goal yet our only experiance is kicking a ball about in the school yard - I did a bit of amateur boxing and was definately champion of my school but very little else - I write on here just for fun and give my opinions right or wrong like most others do - I dont go to the fights so much these days being over 60 and having back and knee joint problems so I suppose you would call me an armchair critic - I did work as a doorman for two years when I was young so I did have a bit of bare knuckle experiance - I love boxing which I first followed as a boy in the 1950s listening to fights on the radio with my Dad - I remember going to my first fight and struggling to see much with the men in front of me being so much taller - No you cant compare boxing with any other sport but the opinions of fans is another matter - Fans of any sport have opinions and its voicing them that adds to the fun of watching our favourite sports people compete.

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 26 Jan 2008, 12:55

No way Lewis would've beaten Louis or Ali. They were just too fast for Lewis.

stfu, did you need read the article !? This is Teh Golden Age !!!!!!!111111111

Theoretically it maybe a good arguement, but theories are just theories while facts are another matter - Training and diet should be a lot better as we know a lot more today about these things than we did years ago - Young men are generally bigger and have better phisiques now than when I was young - In a way they are like battery chickens, they have size and look good, but are they - We ate good wholesome food, proper meat and veggies, not burgers in buns and other junk food - Fish was cheap back then and we were able to afford good fish in large portions - We had proper bread, proper milk got a few bugs in our systems and didnt need anti biotics like we do today to make us well again - We were probably tougher than the youngsters of today, but generally smaller - I was 6 foot at 15, very tall for the times - I wouldnt argue about athletic achievements and records being broken over and over again - I actually remember Roger Bannister achieveing the first 4 minute mile, what the current record is I dont know - My problem is believing Danny Williams could beat Ali, Sprott could beat Frazier, Skelton could beat a prime Tyson, Chagaev could beat Lewis - This arguement was made into a TV program years ago using Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano and M. Ali, three fighters from different times - The progam had Ali winning but a lot of people didnt agree with the result - Boxing I think is different to other sports especially since the KO can cancel out all that the opponent had done in earlier rounds - As you well know there are boxers and fighters - Some boxers/fighters no matter how good they are fair badly against southpaws - The variables make boxing different to the other sports where its first past the post - I therefore feel your arguement isnt factual but theoretically I can see what you are trying to say - I agree having had an involvement in boxing/fighting your opinion has to be respected but was Enzo Calzaghe a champion or even a boxer, yet he is definately the best trainer in the country and maybe the world - I agree we have a go at strikers for missing an open goal yet our only experiance is kicking a ball about in the school yard - I did a bit of amateur boxing and was definately champion of my school but very little else - I write on here just for fun and give my opinions right or wrong like most others do - I dont go to the fights so much these days being over 60 and having back and knee joint problems so I suppose you would call me an armchair critic - I did work as a doorman for two years when I was young so I did have a bit of bare knuckle experiance - I love boxing which I first followed as a boy in the 1950s listening to fights on the radio with my Dad - I remember going to my first fight and struggling to see much with the men in front of me being so much taller - No you cant compare boxing with any other sport but the opinions of fans is another matter - Fans of any sport have opinions and its voicing them that adds to the fun of watching our favourite sports people compete.

Paragraphs man, Paragraphs !!

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 26 Jan 2008, 13:38

It's not as bad as made out, there Is no flashy Americans like many are used to but still not as good as a few years ago.

jeej · Post by **jeej** » 26 Jan 2008, 17:52

"Is he 'avin a laugh?!"

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 26 Jan 2008, 17:58

His argument has nothing really to back it up except a keen interest in amateur astrology! It's provocative and a bit of a laugh, can we take it as anything else?

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 26 Jan 2008, 18:05

Max Molyneux wrote:It's not as bad as made out, there Is no flashy Americans like many are used to but still not as good as a few years ago.

I think your right in saying that but I don't think that there is anyone else that a prime lewis wouldn't have schooled.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 26 Jan 2008, 18:55

True.

I cant believe that some forums like ESB think Wlad has a chance against a prime Lewis.

Lewis would Ko Wlad In 5 rounds.

Lewis wouldn't of hugged Byrd.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 26 Jan 2008, 19:13

Max Molyneux wrote:True.

I cant believe that some forums like ESB think Wlad has a chance against a prime Lewis.

Lewis would Ko Wlad In 5 rounds.

Lewis wouldn't of hugged Byrd.

Byrd was a funny one while Lewis was a professional cos I remember Byrd calling him out at the time, but it would have been an ugly fight and a foregone conclusion.

I think that Wlad is seriously limited though, part of me wishes that Lewis had hung around for long enough to beat both Klitschko's as I believe was his plan, however after taking on Vitali at short notice I think he was a bit scared by no longer feeling invincible!

states · Post by **states** » 26 Jan 2008, 19:25

Do I favour "a 208lb Joe Frazier against a 245lb Wladimir Klitschko?"

You're damn right I do.

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 26 Jan 2008, 20:37

states wrote:Do I favour "a 208lb Joe Frazier against a 245lb Wladimir Klitschko?"

You're damn right I do.

lol, well said

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 26 Jan 2008, 20:41

states wrote:Do I favour "a 208lb Joe Frazier against a 245lb Wladimir Klitschko?"

All day long and twice on sunday

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 26 Jan 2008, 21:39

states wrote:Do I favour "a 208lb Joe Frazier against a 245lb Wladimir Klitschko?"

You're damn right I do.

Klit will try to John Ruiz style hug Fraizer as he slips under Klit's piston straights.

Fraizer will have to throw some meaty body shots so he Isn't hugged to death.

The Klits have that homosexual look on their faces that will be worrying for any Heavyweight to step In the ring with them.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 27 Jan 2008, 08:09

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Ian, would I be allowed to scan a photo of my arse on BBN please? Would make more sense, and be more beneficial to boxing, than that article!

No. Unless you're a lass then please email me with it directly.

It's all about opinions, eh? I don't agree with most of it but there are some interesting points.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 27 Jan 2008, 08:28

the 90's was much stronger.

someone like a prime bowe would have taken wladimir klitschko.

and as for lennox.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 27 Jan 2008, 09:10

It may be a sensitive spot, and I can't quite put my finger on it, but the HW Champ just shouldn't be a Klit.