The best and worst stoppages in boxing...

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 20 Jan 2004, 17:58

One of the worst:
The stoppage by referee Terry O'Connor in the controversial British lightweight title fight between Bobby Vanzie and Stephen Smith. With Smith under fire on the ropes, O'Connor stepped in to stop the fight, then suddenly hesitated, and Smith, who had stopped to look at the ref, copped several more head shots.
To this day, I don't know how Darkie managed to restrain himself in the corner.

One of the best:
Mickey Vann stopping Mexico's Armando Castro in the fourth round against a peak Naz in 1995. Castro had just gone 12 rounds with Alfred Kotey in a WBO bantamweight title challenge, and was known for durability. Naz was teeing off on him in the fourth when Vann suddenly stepped in. I screamed abuse at the ref. Castro looked to be soaking it up without budging. But TV slow-motions showed that Castro's eyes were glazed and the only thing keeping him standing was his chin. Great stoppage.

Dynamite Dean Phillips · Post by **Dynamite Dean Phillips** » 20 Jan 2004, 21:40

The British Boxing scene have the best referees; every fight I have been, I have found the judgement of the ref to be spot on.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 20 Jan 2004, 22:05

i remember castro he was the one who looked a spitting image of marco antonio barrera

that was a brilliant performance from naz one of his punches lifted castro off the canvas that was a serious power punching performance.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 21 Jan 2004, 10:04

Dynamite Dean Phillips wrote:The British Boxing scene have the best referees; every fight I have been, I have found the judgement of the ref to be spot on.

Dean, you're such a diplomat. Another good one was the referee who halted the Naseem Hamed-Steve Robinson fight after Robinson had been decked by a left hook. I remember Ian Darke and Glenn McCrory actually complaining about the stoppage in their commentary. They said Robbo had slipped, when his legs had completely betrayed him from that left hook bang on the temple. The referee allowed Robinson to fight another day, and it still rankles with me that Robbo never got a rematch with Naz when he had fought his way back to WBO number one.
A bad one was the recent Gomez-Arthur fight. John Coyle, always a bit slow at getting in, allowed Gomez to flatten Arthur with a final right hand. In contrast, I thought the Takaloo-Farnell stoppage was hasty. Farnell had been dropped by a beautiful right uppercut and was under fire after the knockdown, but Dave Parris does have a habit of jumping in without giving fighters a chance to regroup.

DIRT SUGAR · Post by **DIRT SUGAR** » 21 Jan 2004, 11:44

Now who'd be a referee?

The 'Shall I stop it now, shall I wait a few more punches?' dilemma.

I mean, Farnell may have regrouped, but he'd have been hard pressed to get back into the fight as he was severely dazed. I was there and he didn't know what day it was when he first went back to his corner, so IMO, the stoppage was justified.

Then you have the other end of the spectrum where Arthur was allowed to take clean powershots for four rounds and then got flattened in the fifth, with three bad knockdowns. I've said it before, but the third knockdown was a carbon copy of the knockdown that gravely injured Johnny Owen against Lupe Pintor.

IMO, Farnell had more of a chance of recovering from the Takaloo fight, where it was over quickly, whereas I think Arthur took the kind of shellacking that stays with a fighter forever.

Whatever, I feel that seeing the referee is closest to the action, purely from a fighter's safety, he is better stopping it early than late.

He might get slated if it's early but, hey, better that than having to carry around the weight of knowing by letting a boxer go on, he got nailed and seriously hurt, or worse.

I read the story of a lad a few years ago, boxing in LA. Tough journeyman type. Referee had officiated his fights before. Said boxer was taking a beating but referee was heard saying to people at ringside 'He's a tough kid'. That boxer collapsed in the eigth round and never woke up.

You can never stop a fight too early. You can only stop one too late.

A figher's safety is paramount, above everything else, including what the defeat means to him and his team.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 21 Jan 2004, 11:50

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Now who'd be a referee?

The 'Shall I stop it now, shall I wait a few more punches?' dilemma.

I mean, Farnell may have regrouped, but he'd have been hard pressed to get back into the fight as he was severely dazed. I was there and he didn't know what day it was when he first went back to his corner, so IMO, the stoppage was justified.

Then you have the other end of the spectrum where Arthur was allowed to take clean powershots for four rounds and then got flattened in the fifth, with three bad knockdowns. I've said it before, but the third knockdown was a carbon copy of the knockdown that gravely injured Johnny Owen against Lupe Pintor.

IMO, Farnell had more of a chance of recovering from the Takaloo fight, where it was over quickly, whereas I think Arthur took the kind of shellacking that stays with a fighter forever.

Whatever, I feel that seeing the referee is closest to the action, purely from a fighter's safety, he is better stopping it early than late.

He might get slated if it's early but, hey, better that than having to carry around the weight of knowing by letting a boxer go on, he got nailed and seriously hurt, or worse.

I read the story of a lad a few years ago, boxing in LA. Tough journeyman type. Referee had officiated his fights before. Said boxer was taking a beating but referee was heard saying to people at ringside 'He's a tough kid'. That boxer collapsed in the eigth round and never woke up.

You can never stop a fight too early. You can only stop one too late.

A figher's safety is paramount, above everything else, including what the defeat means to him and his team.

Yeah, in hindsight Tak-Farnell was probably a good stopage. Tak was on fire. But at least it allows me to mention Dave Parris as we approach the big Williams-Sprott rubber match. Dave is a nicy guy, but if either Sprott or Williams is under a bit of fire this weekend, don't be surprised if Dave jumps in.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 21 Jan 2004, 11:56

touchy subject for sure, but the thing that irritates me is that controversial stoppages nearly always favour the house fighter which always makes me a bit cynical.....

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 21 Jan 2004, 11:57

I'm sure most refs are more than comfortable with their perceived early stoppages. It's got to be such a tough bloody job at times. Such a fine line. You can be absolutely slaughtered it seems just for being one or two punches too late jumping in.

I don't envy the refs one little bit, I only wish they'd get rid of some of the really old ones. I've noticed for example that Frank Cappucino doesn't always enjoy it if there's a fast pace, it's almost like he issues warnings sometimes just so he can break the action and have a quick rest.

DIRT SUGAR · Post by **DIRT SUGAR** » 21 Jan 2004, 11:57

Agree Bennie, but a good trainer should know about the ref and be able to tell his fighter what his man can expect from the referee if he is under pressure, for instance, taking shots on the ropes and not returning punches.

If a fighter is not punching back, the referee has every right to stop the fight. IMO, if you allow you're opponent to unload a dozen punches without returning a single shot, you're asking to be stopped.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 21 Jan 2004, 12:00

Good point, Dirt. That's what Enzo Calzaghe drills into his fighters in training. How many times do we see Joe stop a man with a series of quick unanswered shots to the head?

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 21 Jan 2004, 12:03

bennie wrote:Good point, Dirt. That's what Enzo Calzaghe drills into his fighters in training. How many times do we see Joe stop a man with a series of quick unanswered shots to the head?

exactly Bennie!!! Calzaghe is the master of that...... opponents arent always hurt but just havent got chance to get their own punches going

DIRT SUGAR · Post by **DIRT SUGAR** » 21 Jan 2004, 12:04

Exactly. The Mitchell fight was a perfect example. Mitchell may well have not been out of it to the point of going down, but he was not throwing anything back. He just backed to the ropes and put his hands up.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 21 Jan 2004, 12:07

There's no doubt it's a great tactic by Enzo. When people talk about leading trainers in this country, he tends to get overlooked. But he's done a great job with several Welsh fighters.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Jan 2004, 12:16

That one that was discussed in another thread, that flyweight minor title fight, where the ref just let the guy get pounded and pounded even after he went down and was walking around the ring like a zombie.

Guerlalt Wilders was dreadful too, poor old Noel was getting the crap kicked out of him, the ref or his corner should really have saved him further punishment.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 21 Jan 2004, 12:21

Yes, Dean Phillips has a point. Our refs, compared to some of those European bodgers, are exceptional.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 21 Jan 2004, 12:32

jamesmcdonnell wrote:that flyweight minor title fight

IBF strawweight title to be exact. Sorry, got my anorak on this afternoon.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 21 Jan 2004, 12:39

Kilburn wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:that flyweight minor title fight
IBF strawweight title to be exact. Sorry, got my anorak on this afternoon.

james is hardcore old school!!! IBF is a minor title in his eyes

Priff · Post by **Priff** » 21 Jan 2004, 13:07

knockout wrote:touchy subject for sure, but the thing that irritates me is that controversial stoppages nearly always favour the house fighter which always makes me a bit cynical.....

I see what you mean.
Some refs can jump in quick, some can leave it late, but with the Haye-Mock fight, the Ref let a VERY f*cked Haye continue, but stopped a relatively fresh Mock (therefore doing both). That decision did smell a bit because of the inconsistency between the treatment of the 2 fighters.

Defo favoured the house fighter there.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 21 Jan 2004, 13:10

echols v brewer is another classic example of inconsistent reffing!!

Dynamite Dean Phillips · Post by **Dynamite Dean Phillips** » 21 Jan 2004, 15:10

I can't really say anything against our referees; especially as I know they will be refereeing my fights.....

But, yes. I believe that, compared to a lot of other nations, our referees have very good judgement when it comes to the dliemma of stopping a fight, or letting the fighter carry on. However, from the referees viewpoint, its virtually impossible to be spot on with every occasion, when the basis for such a practice is very much a matter of opinion.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 21 Jan 2004, 15:40

bollocks wrote:IMO the ref in the Bruno - WItherspoon let Frank take a few too many punches at the end. He'd retreated to the ropes when tagged and was defenceless, with Spoon teeing off

I think that ref was later banned for life for his refereeing in a scandalous fight between Juan Martin Coggi and Eder Gonzalez in Argentina in 1993. He stopped the fight, allowed a beaten Coggi to recuperate in his own corner, then waved it back on.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 21 Jan 2004, 15:46

Stopped to late.

Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore - worst in the fact it was stopped about a round to late.

The flyweight title fight that James was on about, forgot the names again a round too late.

Craig Docherty last fight, it should have been stopped.

Milton McCory vs Don Curry.

Stopped to Soon (some of these litter with bias).

I thought Bomber Graham's fight with Brewer was stopped to soon, I think the ref could have given count before waving it off.

Although my memory of McGuigan's cut against McDonnell is poor, I do remember the ref not giving McGuigan's coner much of a chance with it.

Calzaghe vs Mitchell.

Thompson vs Nelson, never agreed with this view before untill I saw the fight recently.

Good Stoppage.

Hagler vs Hearns - in a great war, it was good that the ref didn't get drawn too much on the action. There was a lot at stake and perhaps it must have been tempting for the ref to give Hearns another chance, but he would have had a long stay in hospital if he would have taken another punch.

Lickszz · Post by **Lickszz** » 21 Jan 2004, 19:49

IMO Chris Pyatt v Steve Collins was stopped too soon.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 21 Jan 2004, 20:00

Don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but i thought Carl Thompson-Johnny Nelson was stopped too early as Carl was not in major danger but was taking a lot of Nelson's flurries on the gloves.

On a more serious note Eric Harding-Antonio Tarver II was poor refereeing on the part of Bill Page (?), Harding was taking a sickening amount of left hooks to the head and he Tarver even stopped and beckoned the ref in to stop it as his foe dangled stricken against the ropes. Inept Page simply shouted for the fight to continue and i think when it was eventually stopped Tarver was shouting at him, "Did you want me kill him or something?"