Gairy St Clair
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jomothepure
- Heavyweight
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slapbangwhallop
- Heavyweight
Re: Gairy St Clair
anyone?sligobhoy67 wrote:on what basis is he listed as Australian?
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slapbangwhallop
- Heavyweight
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jomothepure
- Heavyweight
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Re: Gairy St Clair
I would presume that it's due to the fact that he has been a resident of Australia for some time, applied for and was granted Australian citizenship. I think most of us are able to grasp the concept that he was born in Guyana and is Guyanese in many of ways we'd most commonly define nationality. But legally he is Australian, and I would guess that he and particularly his management would rather he was listed as Australian, not least for the fact that it might be more attractive to potential overseas promotors in terms of work permits, technical legalities etc. I don't know, but I'd suspect something like this.sligobhoy67 wrote:anyone?sligobhoy67 wrote:on what basis is he listed as Australian?
Some of these nationality issues can be argued over until Eric Esch contests the world bantamweight title, but whilst you're obviously looking at these records from a heritage point of view, boxrec isn't a family tree site. I suspect being an Oz nationalist helps get St Clair through the boxing business. I suspect if Akinwande's nationality were changed to Nigerian there's be one or two questioning why he was and continues to fight for European titles. If boxrec changed him to Nigerian, then they'd just be at odds with the EBU. Henry's promotor isn't going to suddenly think, "woah Henry. Just went on boxrec and saw you're Nigerian. Better cancel that EU title fight." Likewise the EBU isn't going to haul him out of the rankings because they suddenly discover he has Nigerian heritage.
I really think St Clair and Akinwande's nationalities are what they are because that is what they are in boxing. And this is a boxing site. I can't help you with Duddy. I don't know, and if it's brought up again I may well kill myself. But for the most part at the very least, there isn't a boxrec conspiracy to change people's nationalities for no reason.
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slapbangwhallop
- Heavyweight
Re: Gairy St Clair
Wow a sensible response - thanks for that - its a rearity. All I am looking for is an intelligent debate on or at least some reasonable clarification with respect to this issue.jomothepure wrote:I would presume that it's due to the fact that he has been a resident of Australia for some time, applied for and was granted Australian citizenship. I think most of us are able to grasp the concept that he was born in Guyana and is Guyanese in many of ways we'd most commonly define nationality. But legally he is Australian, and I would guess that he and particularly his management would rather he was listed as Australian, not least for the fact that it might be more attractive to potential overseas promotors in terms of work permits, technical legalities etc. I don't know, but I'd suspect something like this.sligobhoy67 wrote:anyone?sligobhoy67 wrote:on what basis is he listed as Australian?
Some of these nationality issues can be argued over until Eric Esch contests the world bantamweight title, but whilst you're obviously looking at these records from a heritage point of view, boxrec isn't a family tree site. I suspect being an Oz nationalist helps get St Clair through the boxing business. I suspect if Akinwande's nationality were changed to Nigerian there's be one or two questioning why he was and continues to fight for European titles. If boxrec changed him to Nigerian, then they'd just be at odds with the EBU. Henry's promotor isn't going to suddenly think, "woah Henry. Just went on boxrec and saw you're Nigerian. Better cancel that EU title fight." Likewise the EBU isn't going to haul him out of the rankings because they suddenly discover he has Nigerian heritage.
I really think St Clair and Akinwande's nationalities are what they are because that is what they are in boxing. And this is a boxing site. I can't help you with Duddy. I don't know, and if it's brought up again I may well kill myself. But for the most part at the very least, there isn't a boxrec conspiracy to change people's nationalities for no reason.
I assure you I am not looking for Boxrec to look at nationality for a "heritage point of view" what I am looking for is a consistency with regards to the nationality issue.
This isn’t a Duddy issue anymore, what triggered my awareness with regards the shambles the is the inconsistency over this issue was the Duddy issue - it more than that now its about the ad-hoc and amateur way that this category is listed on Boxrec and how and why a boxers nationality is determined.
This is supposed to be a reliable record keeping website, but this section appears wholly unreliable. For example - Herbie Hide was born in Nigeria but grew up and learned to box in the UK - he is listed as British, Akinwande was born in UK, grew up and learned to boxing in Nigeria - but he is listed as British.
Kostya Tszyu born and brought up and boxed for USSR/Russia now boxes out of Australia - listed as Australian - same situation Gairy St. Clair but for Naoufel Ben Rabah who was born and brought up in Tunisia but has fought all of his professional fights in Australia and lived there since 2000 - listed as Tunisian - contrast that with Lovemore N'dou who even began his pro career in South Africa but now listed as Aussie, Duddy, holds and Irish passport, lives and boxes out of the US - listed as British, his next opponent Walid Smichet born, brought up and boxed for Tunisia, now lives and boxes out of Canada - listed as Canadian. Michael Gomez - born and brought up in Ireland - listed as British, Takaloo – born in Iran, brought up and boxed all his professional career in England and holds a British passport – listed as Iranian. Wayne McCullough born in UK – lives and now holds an American passport – listed as British.
Now that is the tip of the iceberg and I could go on adding examples but I think you get the point and can see the mess that this category of the record keeping is in.
Either this section of the record has to be formalised and some consistency added and an agreed policy on this section of the record keeping is implemented or it should be dropped all together – all boxers should be treated the same – surely that is only fair and equitable.
Now you can see why some Boxrec editors want to make a joke of the issue or to sweep it under the carpet - simply because they knows it’s currently in a mess and needs addressing.
Walid Smichet is a Tunisian. I recently had to make plane reservations for him to come to NYC for medical tests. Because he wasn't Canadian he needed a visa to enter the USA. He will be fighting John Duddy who is a citizen of IRELAND and carries an IRISH passport. Both fighters are cool with the international community because they carry ID that is considered valid in the international jurisdiction. To the WORLD COMMUNITY one is Tunisian and one is IRISH.
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jomothepure
- Heavyweight
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slapbangwhallop
- Heavyweight
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slapbangwhallop
- Heavyweight
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slapbangwhallop
- Heavyweight
In case you hadnt noticed this is the "Record Queries & Updates" section. What am I whinging about? Can you please explain that.AntonS wrote:Nope! This lil' born Slovenian (now Australian) is just not prepared to take notice of yet another whinging Pommy. :Pso are you going to address the issue
Also I am not a POM
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slapbangwhallop
- Heavyweight
Anton I think you have shown yourself as the fool on this thread. I have put forward a reasonable intelligent argument - what have you done?AntonS wrote:Yes I did. I enjoy giving forum clowns extra mileage.....It makes them feel good :PIn case you hadnt noticed this is the "Record Queries & Updates" section.