Khan's training methods.

Rocky Balboa
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1851
Joined: 24 Jan 2004, 16:38

Khan's training methods.

Post by Rocky Balboa »

Before the bout with St. Clair, there was footage of Khan in training, which I'm glad to have seen. It showed Amir performing, what looked to be, some thorough strength training. I particularly remember the exercise with Kettle Bell.

Seeing the footage of Amir lifting weights, doing the strength work, etc, has changed my outlook on working with weights. It's quite clear that Amir has benefited from having weight lifting as part of his training schedule.

Does anyone have any more info on Amir's strength training? The guy who is Khan's strength coach also works with the first team players at Bolton Wanderers, so I guess a lot of the credit has to go whoever that person is?

Any info would be appreciated! :TU:
(craig)
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 540
Joined: 09 Jan 2006, 10:18

Post by (craig) »

Try

http://www.rossboxing.com/

While definately not a weightlifting site, it focusses more on conditioning and strength work for boxing/combat athletes. Incorporating various kettlebell, dumbell and bodyweight exercises.
I have no affiliation with this site, though admit I am a fan and Ross has definately helped me get into top condition.
Rocky Balboa
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1851
Joined: 24 Jan 2004, 16:38

Post by Rocky Balboa »

(craig) wrote:Try

http://www.rossboxing.com/

While definately not a weightlifting site, it focusses more on conditioning and strength work for boxing/combat athletes. Incorporating various kettlebell, dumbell and bodyweight exercises.
I have no affiliation with this site, though admit I am a fan and Ross has definately helped me get into top condition.
Nice one, mate!
gkt999
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 488
Joined: 11 Oct 2007, 17:16

Post by gkt999 »

(craig) wrote:Try

http://www.rossboxing.com/

While definately not a weightlifting site, it focusses more on conditioning and strength work for boxing/combat athletes. Incorporating various kettlebell, dumbell and bodyweight exercises.
I have no affiliation with this site, though admit I am a fan and Ross has definately helped me get into top condition.
As soon as i saw Khan doing those routines the misus said to me thats the stuff you guys all do, its the stuff in those books and DVD's you have. and it is the same place Ross Boxing / Training. Ross' routines are a great work out and I use all his books and DVD when working with the Pro's in our gym.
Kettlebell warrior
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 2
Joined: 04 Feb 2008, 15:59

Post by Kettlebell warrior »

The Kettlebell Amir was using was an Intense fitness kettlebell. They are the best quality bells sold in the UK. The UKKA is the offical body in the UK for kettlebell training with trained coaches all over the country.

Look on these web sites for further infomation

http://www.intensefitness.co.uk/

http://www.ukka.org/

I am a snr instructor in the UKKA within the southern area of the UK, if you are within this area and would like more infomation on kettlebell training, feel free to e-mail me on.

[email protected]

Steve :lol:
Grilling Machine
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3159
Joined: 16 Sep 2005, 02:28

Post by Grilling Machine »

I'm one of the old school, I don't like weights. I don't think the trade-off in stamina for power is worth it for a pure boxer.
StepinFetchit
Heavyweight
Heavyweight

Post by StepinFetchit »

Kettlebell warrior wrote:The Kettlebell Amir was using was an Intense fitness kettlebell. They are the best quality bells sold in the UK. The UKKA is the offical body in the UK for kettlebell training with trained coaches all over the country.

Look on these web sites for further infomation

http://www.intensefitness.co.uk/

http://www.ukka.org/

I am a snr instructor in the UKKA within the southern area of the UK, if you are within this area and would like more infomation on kettlebell training, feel free to e-mail me on.

[email protected]

Steve :lol:
Why don't u c^ntz just get Khan to sell your crap in his corner shop and stop trying to be clever on here.

Anyway Muhammad Ali never used a kettle bell did he....and you can't put muscles on a glass jaw.
STP
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 937
Joined: 26 Feb 2007, 08:38

Post by STP »

He should spend some more time working on inside fighting than weights, before he gets exposed.
Grilling Machine
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3159
Joined: 16 Sep 2005, 02:28

Post by Grilling Machine »

Yep, this could slow him down. Ali and Calzaghe famously avoided weights; look at their stamina. You could say they would've hit harder, but Ali wasn't weak and Joe did have good power before his hand troubles.

Weights make me think of guys like Bruno and Lacy. Or Briggs even. Immobile strength.
Deserter
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 6439
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 10:01

Post by Deserter »

It's quite depressing to see how close-minded people can still be on here. For starters, as with all training methods, it's HOW you use weights, as there are so many different varients.
The idea that you'll become hideously muscle-bound if you followed a fat-burning, circuit-based weights routine is laughable, for example.
This is the guy that I swear by, for those interested:
http://www.alwyncosgrove.com
Scrap
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1604
Joined: 29 May 2006, 05:24

Post by Scrap »

The problem is weights or the use of are constant in movement. Which isnt a good idea for biomechanical memory, there are other ways which are better. its not closeminded D
terminator
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 315
Joined: 04 May 2007, 13:00

Post by terminator »

Plenty of good fast fighters with decent stamina use weights like Mayweather Jnr, Shane Mosely etc
Deserter
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 6439
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 10:01

Post by Deserter »

Scrap wrote:The problem is weights or the use of are constant in movement. Which isnt a good idea for biomechanical memory, there are other ways which are better. its not closeminded D
I'll repeat again - it's how they are used. Cosgrove, for example, advocates routines almost entirely comprising free weights and involving the body's natural planes of movement.
Are people seriously trying to suggest that despite the clear, quantifiable evidence that weights (when used properly) have benefitted athletic performance, boxing is somehow uniquely immune from such potential benefits?
Scrap
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1604
Joined: 29 May 2006, 05:24

Post by Scrap »

D what scientific evidece is there on the subject as regarding motorization of joints I would like to know. I thank you, been working in the field for a few years with the best sports science department in the world and I would like to know what they dont.
dbf
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1793
Joined: 28 Nov 2003, 11:06

Post by dbf »

Grilling Machine wrote:Yep, this could slow him down. Ali and Calzaghe famously avoided weights; look at their stamina. You could say they would've hit harder, but Ali wasn't weak and Joe did have good power before his hand troubles.

Weights make me think of guys like Bruno and Lacy. Or Briggs even. Immobile strength.
I think its quite widely known that Lacy doesn't use weights.
Deserter
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 6439
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 10:01

Post by Deserter »

Scrap wrote:D what scientific evidece is there on the subject as regarding motorization of joints I would like to know. I thank you, been working in the field for a few years with the best sports science department in the world and I would like to know what they dont.
Athletics is obviously the most quantifiable discipline and there the incorporation of weights into training routines appears inextricably linked to improved performances in athletes.
In terms of first-person accounts rather than just empirical evidence, there are countless sportsmen on the record attributing improved performances to incorporating weights into their training regimes.
Deserter
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 6439
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 10:01

Post by Deserter »

Terry D wrote:A lot of modern guys lift weights but neglect other areas and consequently can end-up blowing a gale during the ring introductions.
Exactly my point Terry. I'm sure some fighters don't use weights correctly and pay the consequences, I'm not claiming that weights is the great panacea, but rather that when incorporated sensibly they can 'add value' - no different to taking advantage of developments in nutrition, rehabilitation etc.
Scrap
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1604
Joined: 29 May 2006, 05:24

Post by Scrap »

D its something thats interested me for a lot of years Why. Enougth to give training fighters successfully a miss and go and find out Why without guessing. Ive come up with ideas but the men in white coats say prove it, Now I have the sports council are backing the idea with a lot of cash with a remark This will put us in the forfront of Sports Science. So Boxing isnt behind the door in regards to going forward, I think we lot are pretty open minded everybody would love to get it right, most good coaches want to get it right its just the direction and source isnt always the direction they should follow, its a case of who makes the most noise they listen too. Unfortunatly the men in White coats dont say much they are to busy thinking about it
jamesmcdonnell
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 45233
Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11

Post by jamesmcdonnell »

I'm sure that the use of weights can be incorporated

However, I've spoken to sports coaches before, who said that basically the best way to train for any sport, is by doing exercises which mimic the action in the sport. Stuff like the wood chop for example, which uses almost identical muscles as punching.

In effect, surely, sparring is the very best exercise you can do for boxing? I mean, of course you don't want to be sparring every single day, but I would have thought that working on the focus pads, whislt moving around the ring, would probably give the best fitness workout.

Perhaps I am being incredibly naive here, but surely this would be the best method for replicating what you need for a fight.

I've yet to see any evidence that weight training enhances punching power. Of course, that's not it's only use, but I think a lot of fighters become fixated on strength conditioning these days.
jamesmcdonnell
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 45233
Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11

Post by jamesmcdonnell »

Terry D wrote:
Deserter wrote:
Terry D wrote:A lot of modern guys lift weights but neglect other areas and consequently can end-up blowing a gale during the ring introductions.
Exactly my point Terry. I'm sure some fighters don't use weights correctly and pay the consequences, I'm not claiming that weights is the great panacea, but rather that when incorporated sensibly they can 'add value' - no different to taking advantage of developments in nutrition, rehabilitation etc.
It is horses for courses as well and I'm sure it depends on your personal physiology. Personally I always felt that you could get the same effects from certain exercises, push-ups and that, but I'm not an expert on weights so who am I to judge? If I was a boxer I'd certainly get an expert in to help me decide if it is viable for me. Maybe for Briggs it is not viable but might help some slender guy.

If that snippet about Turpin is true, and it came from his brother, then they did him no harm. That blocking style of his needed a strong physique and he obviously benefited from the little gadgets and wrinkles his weight trainer brought to the table.

I always assumed that long sinewy arms, which lead to snappy shots, are good for punchers and if you don't have these a bit of weight lifting can help you put a little more clout on the shots.
Some reading I did mentioned that punching power also came from the strength of the ligaments between the joints, as this enabled better power transference.

Of course, a longer lever means a greater distance from which the punch can be thrown, and therefore potentially greater accelleration. There have certainly been plenty of lanky power punches over the years, Arguello, Corralles, Hearns, were three of the biggest punchers the sport has seen, and all were very tall, gangly and without big muscles.

Punch power seems to be to be much more about transference of weight, and technique at point of delivery, as well as timing when the shot lands, and your opponents positioning, line of sight, and momentum at the time, than it is to do with muscle strength.

At the end of the day, Endurance is far more important than the core strength, as once this goes, the arse falls out of everything else with it.
Scrap
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1604
Joined: 29 May 2006, 05:24

Post by Scrap »

James youve hit the nail on the head, leverage. Add to that Gravity and that leverage isnt a consistant motion and you come up with some very interesting analogies on repetative action. :)
ebeneezer
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 514
Joined: 23 Sep 2005, 17:01

Post by ebeneezer »

terminator wrote:Plenty of good fast fighters with decent stamina use weights like Mayweather Jnr, Shane Mosely etc
Mosley used something else thanks to the BALCO labs.
Scrap
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1604
Joined: 29 May 2006, 05:24

Post by Scrap »

Terry its all to do with oral perception and posture weights dont give it or the correct memory.
Kettlebell warrior
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 2
Joined: 04 Feb 2008, 15:59

Post by Kettlebell warrior »

Wow, strength training really is a contentious issue amongst the boxing world, and sadly is shows how far behind the times some of you are.

I would like to clear up a few points about strength training. Firstly, we are not talking about bodybuilding. Bodybuilders train to isolate muscle parts and their training is solely built around gaining as much muscle as possible.

Now strength training for athletes is completely different, when adding strength training to a sporting program, compound exercises should be used. Compound exercises are multi joint exercises that train more than one muscle group. In the case of the training Amir was doing on TV last Saturday, apart from the kettlebell exercises that have caused quite a stir amongst some of you, the other main exercise he was performing was the bar bell squat. The squat is the best all round strength lift bar none, although the legs are the prime mover, when performing the barbell squat, you are working practically the whole body. That is why any competitive athlete, be it a boxer or marathon runner could benefit from performing squats. You should also find expert advice on the correct training methods for your chosen sport, other wise, as a lot of you have said, lifting weights will be detrimental to you sporting ability.

As an aside, one of you mentioned Calzaghe never lifting weights. I feel confident enough in my methods to say if Joe had performed specific hand and wrist training exercises in the earlier years of his career, he would not have suffered the hand problems he has. In fact having spoken to a number of boxers over the years, the one baffling thing I have found is that none of them did any work to strengthen their hands or wrists. Guys these are their tools of their trade and none of them are working to protect them.

Getting on to kettlebells, the best thing about using them as part of a strength and conditioning program is that they train the body functionally. By this I mean when using a kettlebell, you can replicate the specific movements the body goes through during your chosen sporting activity. And another plus for using kettlebells is that you can complete workouts very quickly, leaving more time to concentrate of the specific skills of you sport. In fact, I would openly extend an invitation to any one of you guys to come and try my kettlebell circuit routine that would take you around 3 minutes to complete once you have learnt the correct techniques. That is the same amount of time a round lasts, so I am bringing a spot specific element in to your training, and if you can complete 6 rounds of this with one minuets rest between sets I will give you the workout free, other wise I charge £30 per hour.

Lastly it may interest you to read the article on the link bellow from the United Kingdom Kettlebell Association web site from when we presented to the Northern England ABA.

http://www.ukka.org/ABA.htm
Scrap
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1604
Joined: 29 May 2006, 05:24

Post by Scrap »

Kettle, you have a point and it is taken. Why Joe has a problem is he didnt look after his hands in his formative years, never used handwraps. Fighters with a History of manual labour in there cv rarely have that trouble. Kettle weights I like but the problem of consistant strain regarding Leverage, is still there regarding muscle memory thats the big issue, there are better ways
Post Reply