What is the fastest Knock out in Amateur history?

[kevin1]

Real_Deal I find it enlightening that you are interested in learning the rules and are taking the time which will not only help you as a coach, but your athletes as well . If find it really disturbing that officials sometimes don't know the rules either. I mean if you are going to judge or affect these hard working athletes then if you as an official are not taking the time to learn the rules, then you are participating in the sport for your own ego and to be somebody or be "seen," rather then giving some of the same effort back to these athletes who deserve nothing less . I live in El Sereno which right next door to Alhambra, and since I live off of Eastern/Huntington Drive I am pretty close to you. If you post your regular e-mail I would be more than willing to contact you, and reveal my credentials, background, etc., however; I feel it inappropriate to reveal such on this type of forum. 8)

[squarering]

Real Deal, As Kevin said, you should be very proud of your boxer. He climbed through the ropes and came out victorious. but I would be very carefull about putting too much emphisis on the stoppage, especially with a novice boxer. If it feels like I am trying to take the wind out of your sails, I appologise, but let me explain. As a coach of many years I have had many boxers experience delivering everything from RSC,s to RSCH's where opponents were out for minutes (a very scary situation). We have also been on the recieving end of some as well. The fact is, most older coaches have seen the same thing many times. At first it can be a big adrenaline rush watching your boxer stop his opponent. but after a while you learn that you should put much more emphisis on the boxers overall, performance than weather he was able to stop his opponent. In fact, at last years PAL my boxer stopped his first 2 opponents and did not recieve high praise from me in either bout during our post bout evaluation. , because he did not execute his skills to the best of his ability. Instead, he just swung hard and was able to finally land blows that this perticular opponent could not overcome. What really impresses me, is how well they execute what they learned in the gym, how well they listen to the corner and how well they stay composed and in control throughout the bout. If it happens to lead to an RSC, that fine. In my experience it can be very detrimental to have a new boxer thinking the best way to win his coaches approval, is going out for a knock out. If you don't mind reading and want to increase your boxers chances of becoming very good , read the book "John Wooden the esentials" It will change the way you think and coach and you will understand why, although he was not a boxing coach, he was considered the greatest coach of all time. You will also understand why I make these statements. Congradulations on your win and good luck in the future.

[The_Real_Deal]

Real Deal, As Kevin said, you should be very proud of your boxer. He climbed through the ropes and came out victorious. but I would be very carefull about putting too much emphisis on the stoppage, especially with a novice boxer. If it feels like I am trying to take the wind out of your sails, I appologise, but let me explain. As a coach of many years I have had many boxers experience delivering everything from RSC,s to RSCH's where opponents were out for minutes (a very scary situation). We have also been on the recieving end of some as well. The fact is, most older coaches have seen the same thing many times. At first it can be a big adrenaline rush watching your boxer stop his opponent. but after a while you learn that you should put much more emphisis on the boxers overall, performance than weather he was able to stop his opponent. In fact, at last years PAL my boxer stopped his first 2 opponents and did not recieve high praise from me in either bout during our post bout evaluation. , because he did not execute his skills to the best of his ability. Instead, he just swung hard and was able to finally land blows that this perticular opponent could not overcome. What really impresses me, is how well they execute what they learned in the gym, how well they listen to the corner and how well they stay composed and in control throughout the bout. If it happens to lead to an RSC, that fine. In my experience it can be very detrimental to have a new boxer thinking the best way to win his coaches approval, is going out for a knock out. If you don't mind reading and want to increase your boxers chances of becoming very good , read the book "John Wooden the esentials" It will change the way you think and coach and you will understand why, although he was not a boxing coach, he was considered the greatest coach of all time. You will also understand why I make these statements. Congradulations on your win and good luck in the future.

I totally agree with what you are saying, and since the fight, I have told him your next fight is going to be your hardest fight yet, simply becuase your going to fight someone who doesnt faze when you hit them you are going to have to work for three rounds next time out, The reason i am so happy about this well I have several reasons, the first being he was so sloppy early on, once I told him to cut it out, he listened and threw a series of shots we worked on in sparring and it finished the fight.
The other reasons are he was six pounds lighter for this fight than his last of which he was winning that fight but ran out of gas so I had to stop it. he showed that he learned from that he took his road work more serious and it showed in the gym and in the fight.
I am also proud of him becuase un like some fighters he didnt act in a disrespectful way when he scored the knock down, I made sure that going in no matter what the out come was, that we would represent both our gym and the sport with class and we will show respect to the commission and the other fighter no matter what the out come.
I dont want him to be the type of boxer who would knock someone out or win a decision then jump up and down like he won the lotto, or if he had lost I didnt want to see him acting like a sour grape.
so to me everything went well, but I ttotally agree that he is going to have to box, honestly though for his height 5'3 at 160 even if he can come down a little more which he wants to, everybody he fights is going to be taller than him, so really our boxing would be getting inside close and working.
BTW I have a question for you BoxMel or even Kevin, How do judges in the amateurs feel about Body shots? I have heard different opinions alot of people say that Judges dont care for body shots in the amateurs, and if this is true we have to work twice as hard becuase he is going to have to go to the body first when he fights.

[boxmel]

How do judges in the amateurs feel about Body shots? I have heard different opinions alot of people say that Judges dont care for body shots in the amateurs, and if this is true we have to work twice as hard becuase he is going to have to go to the body first when he fights.

It's really too bad that boxing people don't read the rule book and don't know what the scoring criteria is. Body shots are legal. Body shots are counted. A well-rounded boxers uses body shots as well as those to other scoring areas. I think the myth started with the electronic scoring system. For some reason, "people" think that judges on the computer system don't score body shots. That is just not true, for the most part. In amateur boxing the judges score any legal (without fouling) effective shot landed with the white portion of the glove in the scoring area. The scoring area is half way through the top of the head, down the sides to the belt line (imaginary line from the top of each hip through the belly button).

[squarering]

Real Deal/ You are definately on the right track. In the book I mentioned, Wooden always instucted his team to conduct themselves with dignity no matter what the outcome. He said that he wanted them to have the same demeaner win or loose and that if an outsider came in the gym after the game, they wouldn't be able to tell who won or lost by looking at his players. I think it is also the best way to win loyal supporters for your boxer. When I started an old coach told me that if you don't learn the rules they will someday kick you in the butt and there were a couple times that they did, but he also said that when you lerned them there will come a time when they will save your butt and that has happened as well. Still in the heat of battle and the caos of mistakes it takes a lot to draw on one of the hundreds of rules in a moments notice. This happened in the Pan Am Games recently. As far as body shots counting, I think it has a lot to do with whis officiating and/or what gets said at the officials meeting before a bout. It can also be because a clean body shot placed up inside a closed defensive posture is hard to acually see make clean contact sometimes Do you agree Mel.

[The_Real_Deal]

How do judges in the amateurs feel about Body shots? I have heard different opinions alot of people say that Judges dont care for body shots in the amateurs, and if this is true we have to work twice as hard becuase he is going to have to go to the body first when he fights.

It's really too bad that boxing people don't read the rule book and don't know what the scoring criteria is. Body shots are legal. Body shots are counted. A well-rounded boxers uses body shots as well as those to other scoring areas. I think the myth started with the electronic scoring system. For some reason, "people" think that judges on the computer system don't score body shots. That is just not true, for the most part. In amateur boxing the judges score any legal (without fouling) effective shot landed with the white portion of the glove in the scoring area. The scoring area is half way through the top of the head, down the sides to the belt line (imaginary line from the top of each hip through the belly button).

I agree, that the electronic scoring system is what off sets people which I think is the reason they would say that Body shots are meaningless, there is a coach in my gym, who always says you have to throw from bell to bell you only have 2 mins each round, I mean when I see the kids sparring they do throw but its not non stop I dont think anybody can do that really in a fight, I mean I have seen good action in matches sure but you have to rest in there every now and then.
some times I get annoyed becuase of the way the other coach at our gym insist on someone throwing for 2 mins straight, I know we would like to see that, but you have to also show defense in there as well becuase the other man will throw back.
alot of things that just get on my nerves about some coaches and I just basicly keep to myself and take advice while working on what we are there to work on.
BoxMel do you happen to know of a fighter from the 70's Eugene Windmill white?

[boxmel]

As far as body shots counting, I think it has a lot to do with whis officiating and/or what gets said at the officials meeting before a bout. It can also be because a clean body shot placed up inside a closed defensive posture is hard to acually see make clean contact sometimes Do you agree Mel.

Most officials meetings consist of "be fair, give the boxers the best, etc." I have never been in a technical/official's meeting where the officials were told the type of scoring blows to count.

I agree that blows thrown in "infighting" are hard to see. That's why it's important to box in the middle of the ring and move so that a majority of judges can see the punches. I boxers stay in a clinch and don't move, most of what they throw won't count.

I knew a Ray "Windmill" White from the Oxnard area. He was an official many years ago before he got too old, and muddled. I didn't know him when he was a fighter.

[The_Real_Deal]

As far as body shots counting, I think it has a lot to do with whis officiating and/or what gets said at the officials meeting before a bout. It can also be because a clean body shot placed up inside a closed defensive posture is hard to acually see make clean contact sometimes Do you agree Mel.[/quote4]

Most officials meetings consist of "be fair, give the boxers the best, etc." I have never been in a technical/official's meeting where the officials were told the type of scoring blows to count.

I agree that blows thrown in "infighting" are hard to see. That's why it's important to box in the middle of the ring and move so that a majority of judges can see the punches. I boxers stay in a clinch and don't move, most of what they throw won't count.

I knew a Ray "Windmill" White from the Oxnard area. He was an official many years ago before he got too old, and muddled. I didn't know him when he was a fighter.

I think you got the guy mixed up maybe you dont I have always known him as Eugene White, However he was a trainer of mine years ago and honestly this approach to the sport has been the very best, I mean the way he teaches it was fun working with him.
The Eugene White I am talking about was out of Tacoma washington, very nice man. i really wish he was still around the last time I saw him he was sleeping on the streets of Seattle near the sub stations, very sad especially to see him drunk like that looks like he hit bottom.
But the good I remember him from is the way he would teach I mean he treated me like a son, when I saw him downtown Seattle he was so ashamed of himself he wouldnt allow me to give him money or take him out to eat, he use to always say, "im a Giant" you pea on! funny man great personality.

[boxmel]

Different Whites. Your's was in Washington and mine was in California.

[The_Real_Deal]

Different Whites. Your's was in Washington and mine was in California.

I beleive he was in the Olympic try outs in the 70's dont quote me on that exactly becuase as a young student to the sport you hear alot of BS stories from every trainer, its funny how they all know it all isnt it?

[boxmel]

Yep - most every coach, and there are a few exceptions, feel they can train better than any other coach. LOL!

[DJTonyGunnz]

well i was @ da nj golden gloves a guy from my gym got knocked out n 21 secs, a nice punch 2 da body his was gone

[boxmel]

Stopping a bout due to a body punch is not considered a knock out in amateur boxing. 8) A KO in amateur boxing translates to RSCH and has a minimum 30-day restriction period.

[delisa]

From the video it looks like a left hook to the back of the head dropped the kid -- as far as the stoppage -- I leave that to the ref's discretion

[The_Real_Deal]

From the video it looks like a left hook to the back of the head dropped the kid -- as far as the stoppage -- I leave that to the ref's discretion

The hook was to the side of his head and that isnt what drops him its the straight right hand on the chin, its hard to see cus his back is facing the camera, but if you watch the kids movement you can clearly see that its a right hand, especially when you watch his legs you can clearly see him spring off of that right foot as he fires that right hand.

[rickyraytaylor]

I expect any coach to know the rules, but I understand that this isnt always the case in the sport, I read the rules for myself becuase I figure its the only way I myself can improve as a coach. I also beleive that saftey comes first regarding the fighters, and I will go to the grave with that.
But I had no idea just how many people are in this sport as a coach or even an official who do not take the time to read and understand the rules, I always ask questions even if they sound stupid its better to ask and find out than to not ask and assume you know.
But the way I approached this comming in as a coach was that I educated myself fully regarding rules and regulations and saftey of the sport. I read that book almost every day just bits at a time not like I am in front of it the entire day but I do grab it and read a section or two in my down time at home.

sounds like you're a relative newbie in USABoxing. welcome. a quick lesson on terminology champ, hope it helps: typically when we refer to a fighter having been "knocked out", it's normally a case where they went DOWN and did not beat the count. But, if he/she got knocked DOWN and got up to beat the count, walked to their corner, wobbled and the ref stopped the fight - then we'll say the guy/girl got "stopped".

[actionfan]

Light heavyweight Joe Gumina K.o.ed Jamal Parker of New Jersey in 8 sec at the PAL nationals. RSCH 1 Jamal was knocked out cold.vey scary but he was o.k.

[SugarRayLeonardGym]

Just wondering my kid has just had his second amateur fight sunday and scored a 19 second knock out. does anybody know what the fastest Knock out is?? or where I could find out this information?

I had this a while, but here is a clip from Michael Marton's 1982 documentary "Watch Me Now" about the late Cus D'Amato's amateur boxing program in Catskill, N.Y. This is from the semi-final round and tyson was 15 years old and defending his title from the previous year.

8 seconds!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDFSj5XYYus

[Dennis]

Hal - you had some good comments for the new coach and his athlete. I have seen several RSC's and RSCH's that were under 20 seconds. That one of Tyson's was pretty quick - 8 or so seconds.

I have complimented some boxers more after an excellent performance with a close decision that went the other way, than when they perform poorly and get the decision.

[SugarRayLeonardGym]

On the subject of RSCs, I saw some questionable stoppages at this year's National Silver Gloves and some questionable non-stoppages. I understand that they are a tool for the referees to prtoect boxers. However, there is a fine line between that and taking away a boxer's chance to compete in a bout. This one in particular may have ended in the same result but nothing about the boxer's body language warranted this RSC in my opinion. What does everyone else think?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jbhfTBkjG3k& ... 93&index=5

[SugarRayLeonardGym]

This was ridiculous. This is from the same 2008 Silver Gloves Nationals. Why didn't the referee stop this, even though the coach should have first?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hcims8JpnmE& ... 75&index=4

[Dennis]

On the subject of RSCs, I saw some questionable stoppages at this year's National Silver Gloves and some questionable non-stoppages. I understand that they are a tool for the referees to prtoect boxers. However, there is a fine line between that and taking away a boxer's chance to compete in a bout. This one in particular may have ended in the same result but nothing about the boxer's body language warranted this RSC in my opinion. What does everyone else think?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jbhfTBkjG3k& ... 93&index=5

The kid from Reg 2 was hurt. The first 8 count was needed and his legs were not right after his knee touched the canvas (knockdown), which was at the beginning of the count. Some refs would have stopped it right then. This ref allowed it to continue, but when the kid gets wobbled again he decides to stop it. I think the kids legs still weren't right, which is why he got wobbled again from a hook. That hook was about the 4th punch to land after the 8 count so I wouldn't say it was a bad stoppage. I do think the coach showed poor judgment and poor sportsmanship in having his boxer exit the ring and then both leave the ring before the decision is announced.

[Dennis]

This was ridiculous. This is from the same 2008 Silver Gloves Nationals. Why didn't the referee stop this, even though the coach should have first?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hcims8JpnmE& ... 75&index=4

The ref didn't see the kid getting hurt. When he saw that the kid was too tired to defend himself he gave him an 8 count. The coach then retired his boxer because the kid was no longer keeping his hands up. In this bout the kid kept throwing punches back until the 3rd round right before the 8 count.

[SugarRayLeonardGym]

The ref didn't see the kid getting hurt. When he saw that the kid was too tired to defend himself he gave him an 8 count. The coach then retired his boxer because the kid was no longer keeping his hands up. In this bout the kid kept throwing punches back until the 3rd round right before the 8 count.

Always good to hear another opinion. I didn't see the red corner as being tired, I saw him as hurt, but I was also there and that may be influencing my opinion also. Thanks for the quick feedback! Dennis, do you feel that if this fight was allowed to go to the 3rd round, that the previous post's boxer from Region 2 should have at least gotten a 2nd eight count?

[SugarRayLeonardGym]

I do think the coach showed poor judgment and poor sportsmanship in having his boxer exit the ring and then both leave the ring before the decision is announced.

I agree with you here also. Fortunately most of the conduct that I saw was very sportsmanlike by coaches and boxer alike this year.