SteveCollins detracting CalzagheHopkins

cyclone · Post by **cyclone** » 08 Feb 2008, 02:57

"You can't put Joe in the category of best super middleweights ever as he hasn't fought anyone decent. If he had achieved what he did ten years earlier when we were around then you could argue he'd be the best of all time.

"But we were the best. Even 'Marvellous' Marvin Hagler wouldn't have lasted in our era!

"Joe couldn't choose what era he boxed in and that's just unfortunate."

"Back in the day when Bernard Hopkins was around, you had fighters like Sumbu Kalambay, Nigel Benn, Reggie Johnnson, Roy Jones JR, Mike McCallum, Gerald McClellan, James Toney, Michael Watson, Chris Eubank and many more talented contenders rated above Hopkins.

"I would not have classed 'The Executioner' as a threat."

"Joe is one of the best pound for pound fighters in the World today, but he may not have even been in the Top Ten of the middleweights or super middleweights in the late 1980s or early to mid 1990s."

"Eubank was finished as a fighter by the time Joe fought him. I know this for a fact, because I hit him harder than I've ever hit anybody in our first fight in Mill Street. And I hit him for 12 rounds.

"In our second fight, I could tell Chris was a shot fighter, and that was from the punches I landed in Mill Street."

StepinFetchit · Post by **StepinFetchit** » 08 Feb 2008, 03:55

cyclone wrote:"You can't put Joe in the category of best super middleweights ever as he hasn't fought anyone decent. If he had achieved what he did ten years earlier when we were around then you could argue he'd be the best of all time.

"But we were the best. Even 'Marvellous' Marvin Hagler wouldn't have lasted in our era!

"Joe couldn't choose what era he boxed in and that's just unfortunate."

"Back in the day when Bernard Hopkins was around, you had fighters like Sumbu Kalambay, Nigel Benn, Reggie Johnnson, Roy Jones JR, Mike McCallum, Gerald McClellan, James Toney, Michael Watson, Chris Eubank and many more talented contenders rated above Hopkins.

"I would not have classed 'The Executioner' as a threat."

"Joe is one of the best pound for pound fighters in the World today, but he may not have even been in the Top Ten of the middleweights or super middleweights in the late 1980s or early to mid 1990s."

"Eubank was finished as a fighter by the time Joe fought him. I know this for a fact, because I hit him harder than I've ever hit anybody in our first fight in Mill Street. And I hit him for 12 rounds.

"In our second fight, I could tell Chris was a shot fighter, and that was from the punches I landed in Mill Street."

Finally someone talks sence......this fight is a joke, same as Calzaghes resume.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 08 Feb 2008, 04:39

StepinFetchit wrote:
cyclone wrote:"You can't put Joe in the category of best super middleweights ever as he hasn't fought anyone decent. If he had achieved what he did ten years earlier when we were around then you could argue he'd be the best of all time.

"But we were the best. Even 'Marvellous' Marvin Hagler wouldn't have lasted in our era!

"Joe couldn't choose what era he boxed in and that's just unfortunate."

"Back in the day when Bernard Hopkins was around, you had fighters like Sumbu Kalambay, Nigel Benn, Reggie Johnnson, Roy Jones JR, Mike McCallum, Gerald McClellan, James Toney, Michael Watson, Chris Eubank and many more talented contenders rated above Hopkins.

"I would not have classed 'The Executioner' as a threat."

"Joe is one of the best pound for pound fighters in the World today, but he may not have even been in the Top Ten of the middleweights or super middleweights in the late 1980s or early to mid 1990s."

"Eubank was finished as a fighter by the time Joe fought him. I know this for a fact, because I hit him harder than I've ever hit anybody in our first fight in Mill Street. And I hit him for 12 rounds.

"In our second fight, I could tell Chris was a shot fighter, and that was from the punches I landed in Mill Street."
Finally someone talks sence......this fight is a joke, same as Calzaghes resume.

STP · Post by **STP** » 08 Feb 2008, 04:43

Steve Collins is an IDIOT. He always described his fight with McCallum as 'losing the battle but winning the war', I didn't know what he meant until I heard him say before Hatton-Mayweather that Hatton would 'lose the battle but win the war' because Mayweather would be 'running'. McCallum batters Collins. There was another quote he said about Calzaghe not being in the 'Fab Five', and when asked who are the 'Fab Five' he says 'Me, Benn, Eubank, Roy Jones and Mike McCallum'. I honestly think he's still hynotised. He still thinks he'd have beaten Roy Jones!!

STP · Post by **STP** » 08 Feb 2008, 04:46

And he always claims he was 'robbed' against Johnson and Kalambay in their 'backyards'. I recently watched the Kalambay fight and he's made to look like a novice amateur at times, punching thin air and not winning any round on anything other than workrate, and only three or four at that, if that.

Matt W · Post by **Matt W** » 08 Feb 2008, 04:57

To suggest Calzaghe wouldn't have been in the top 10 in his era is patently ludicrous.

Collins had his chance to show Calzaghe's worth in the ring. I respect him as a fighter but comments such as these don't do him any favours. Having said that lots of ex-champions throughout history have a similar kind of attitude to modern champs.

whicker · Post by **whicker** » 08 Feb 2008, 05:03

When we consider Collins record, we can see that he had excellent wins over Eubank- no-one is taking that away from him. Previously he had been defeated when challenging for World Titles.

Following that, wins over Cornelius Carr and Neville Brown- both good British level fighters , but neither of them world level.

He then fought twice against Nigel Benn, who sadly lacked his old spirit- not shot, but mentally finished.

He then rounded off his career with a couple of wins against 2 men, neither of whom were close to world level.

So, all things considered, his greatest achievment was beating Eubank twice, and finishing off Benn, a shell of his former self.

Other than that, I fail to see what his claims to greatness are.

STP · Post by **STP** » 08 Feb 2008, 06:07

To suggest Benn was only mentally shot is absurd. Did you not see him falling over his own punches in the Nardiello and Collins fights? His balance was shot to shit, due to scar tissue on a part of his brain. And Malinga seemed to be holding him up, FFS. He looked horrible post-McClellan, but people didn't seem to be looking past his dreads or tats.

whicker · Post by **whicker** » 08 Feb 2008, 06:15

STP wrote:To suggest Benn was only mentally shot is absurd. Did you not see him falling over his own punches in the Nardiello and Collins fights? His balance was shot to shit, due to scar tissue on a part of his brain. And Malinga seemed to be holding him up, FFS. He looked horrible post-McClellan, but people didn't seem to be looking past his dreads or tats.

Fair point- I generally agree.

I think its fair to say that when he faced Collins, he was a shadow of his former self.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 08 Feb 2008, 07:23

STP wrote:Steve Collins is an IDIOT. He always described his fight with McCallum as 'losing the battle but winning the war', I didn't know what he meant until I heard him say before Hatton-Mayweather that Hatton would 'lose the battle but win the war' because Mayweather would be 'running'. McCallum batters Collins. There was another quote he said about Calzaghe not being in the 'Fab Five', and when asked who are the 'Fab Five' he says 'Me, Benn, Eubank, Roy Jones and Mike McCallum'. I honestly think he's still hynotised. He still thinks he'd have beaten Roy Jones!!

Amen to that. He bottled out of fighting JC and he's done nothing but whinge ever since. I so wish Jones would have faced him and beat the shit out of him.

Never liked him. He was tough but dire.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 08 Feb 2008, 08:49

That sissy Is jelous he was never a good a fight as Joe.

tony3 · Post by **tony3** » 08 Feb 2008, 09:33

Collins was a good fighter but Calzaghe has always been a class apart.

Eubank gave Carl Thompson hell up at cruiserweight, even dropping him in the 4th round of their first fight - something he'd never have been able to do if he was a shot fighter.

Marvin Hagler would have aquitted himself admirably against any of the 'fabulous five' barring Roy Jones, who would probably have been a bit too quick for him.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 08 Feb 2008, 09:59

Eubank was never the same fighter after the Watson fight in my opinion.

The best of Eubank beats the best of Collins everyday of the week, and the best of Calzaghe probably beats them both(a prime Joe/Collins match up would have been a walk in the park for Joe)

Collins has shipped one too many punches to the head over the years I think.
He speaks more nonsense than Eubank, which is extremely hard to do.

Collins was light years away from being a great fighter.

STP · Post by **STP** » 08 Feb 2008, 10:19

I don't think Joe would have hung with the Eubank and Watson who fought at White Hart Lane, that was all-out everything absolute highest level, do-or-die for both men and as good as it gets! But Steve Collins was very, very average, and Eubank at his near-worst still beat him quite clearly. You could tell Eubank was just trying to hurt Collins with every punch (and even his head and elbows) rather than score points, it didn't look like the usual cool-as-a-cucumber Eubank.

There's a massive gulf between Watson and Collins in terms of talent, no question about that. Just look at the McCallum fights. McCallum used Collins as a warm-up for Watson, and instantly made Collins look like an amateur and saved a lot in reserve, while Watson had 11 months of ring rust but still made McCallum work a lot harder from the off-set than Collins did, and brought the very best out of McCallum throughout (despite his timing being off).

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 08 Feb 2008, 10:51

It's difficult to say how good Lacey and Kessler were/are at this stage.. we'll have to see what they can do from here tbh.. and i do actually agree with Collins that the depth of boxers was much more in the 80's, as Sugar Ray Leonard said recently there was a gym on every street corner in the US in the 70's and 80's and that churned so many black US welter-juniormiddle-middle boxers that six or seven US TV channels in the 80's couldn't keep up with the coverage of boxing..

Having spent time in San Fran back then where relatives lived i can tell you the top 10 at welter-juniormiddle and top 20 at middleweight from 85-90 was stacked with recognisable names and quality fighters.. these days, at middle atleast, it's only the top 2..! and gym's are almost impossible to find in the US cities these days, and those that are about are near empty.. Sugar says back then it was shoulder to shoulder..

Do i think Calzaghe would have lived with the Mccallum's, Tate's, Benn's, Kalambay's, Hearns's and Sims's of this world etc etc..? Yes i do.. but it's hard to say whether he'd be better.. and also bare in mind that Calzaghe is basically a light heavy and has been from the start of his career, back then the middles were in the 150's year-round and weigh-ins on fight days..

Charles Brewer for example is not in the league of a Frank Tate.. and you don't want to put bloody Keith Holmes alongside Lindell Holmes..!

I trust Eubank's judgement that Calzaghe is the 'proper article' for this generation..

Asterix · Post by **Asterix** » 08 Feb 2008, 10:56

Lacy looked like absolute crap against Manfredo. I think Kessler will continue to be a major force.

mrkh · Post by **mrkh** » 08 Feb 2008, 11:08

without a doubt, 160 and 168 was stacked from '87 to '95. i could be here all day listing the fighters, vast majority of which african-americans, and many were top top notched. but only benn out of benn-graham-watson-eubank-collins beat some of the marquee best in barkley and mcclellan.

graham beat lindell holmes but lost to mccallum, while watson beat don lee but lost to mccallum. and collins lost to mccallum, reggie johnson and sambu kalambay. eubank beat holmes and rocchigiani, and fringers like essett and thornton, but didn't fight the very best off the conveyor belt.

atleast calzaghe has fought and beat the very best of his time in reid, lacy and kessler, and potentially froch. like steve says himself, you can't choose what era you fight in. but you'd need to be blind to suggest calzaghe doesn't have skills similar to the likes of nunn, graham and rjj, and you only have to look at the eubank fight to see what a high level fighter he is!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Feb 2008, 12:16

STP wrote:To suggest Benn was only mentally shot is absurd. Did you not see him falling over his own punches in the Nardiello and Collins fights? His balance was shot to shit, due to scar tissue on a part of his brain. And Malinga seemed to be holding him up, FFS. He looked horrible post-McClellan, but people didn't seem to be looking past his dreads or tats.

Yes, I was going to say this. His balance was completely gone by the time he fought Collins, and with it is former power. In the second fight with Collins it was quite obvious to Benn himself, and that's why he was pulled out.

STP · Post by **STP** » 08 Feb 2008, 12:23

It was worse in the fight with Nardiello. He hardly threw a punch that he didn't actually fall over with. Couple that with southpaw Nardiello's boots not getting any grip on the canvas and you get the worst WBC world title fight Britain has or will ever see(n).

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 08 Feb 2008, 13:33

Least Eubak had the minerals to fight Calzaghe, Collins didn't. Collins career smakcs of picking up the empties. Benn, Watson, Eubank and Calzaghe would all have beaten him at their peaks. Maybe even Pyatt.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 09 Feb 2008, 05:31

Collins is overrated most of all by himself. He got Eubank and Benn at the right times other than that what the hell did he do? A glorified scuffler in my book.

If Calzaghe wasn't that good why did he pull out of the fight? No excuses Collins knew he was going to get beaten there.

Jones would have destroyed him.

He has always come across as a prick to me.

SteveCollins detracting CalzagheHopkins

SteveCollins detracting CalzagheHopkins

Re: SteveCollins detracting CalzagheHopkins

Re: SteveCollins detracting CalzagheHopkins