Your top 3 biggest fights ever?

[Syntax Error]

What top 3 fights do you believe to be the biggest ever, in terms of significance in & beyond boxing?

Not necessarily the highest grossing or exciting, but highly significant?

For me they are:-

1) Jack Johnson -v- Jim Jeffries - I know it was 100 years ago & I certainly wasn't around then, but from reading about it, I now believe that this was the biggest boxing match, probably ever. Each fighter was said to be representing a race & the result & the manner of Johnson's victory probably changed HW boxing forever. Johnson winning effectively barred any black fighters from fighting for the title for over 2 decades!

2) Joe Louis -v- Max Schmeling 2 - Not that either fighter wanted it, but each man was representing an ideology. How ironic in the light of Jack Johnson's treatment over 20 years earlier that a black heavyweight would represent the so-called free world against Nazism (not that Schmeling was a Nazi).

3) Frazier -v- Ali 1 - Quite simply the fight of the 20th century. Were it not for the wider social & cultural significance of the 1st 2 fights on my list, this would be the biggest fight of all time, bar none. 2 undefeated champions, both with legitimate claims to be champion of the world. Dial in the fact that you have the most charismatic human that ever lived versus the indomitable Frazier, it all added up to one hell of an event.

[granberry]

1) Jack Johnson -v- Jim Jeffries -

During the 6 years he hadn't fought Jeffries smoked heavily and ate like a glutton, gaining close to 100 pounds.

For the "fight" with Johnson, Jeffries lost close to 100 pounds in a short amount of time

had no warm up fights to determine if he could still fight at all

did almost no sparring, and the most of the sparring he did was with long retired fighters like Jim Corbett and Joe Choynski.
The trainers from his championship days were not around his camp.

The fight itself demonstrated two things:

1---that Johnson was not a puncher---it took Johnson 15 rounds to get rid of the shell of Jeffries. If the situation had been reversed Johnson would not have gotten through the first round.

2---what a phsyical specimen Jeffries was even in that decrepit condition, staying for 15 rounds against Johnson in his prime.

That fight does not rate as a significant fight, since Johnson was fighting the shell of Jeffries.

2) Joe Louis -v- Max Schmeling 2 -

Yes, since the clueless media and the Ken Burns types have NO INTEREST in boxing and have ZERO knowledge of boxing

they need a non-boxing tag to even mention the subject of boxing.

3) Frazier -v- Ali 1 -

Not a great fight, since one fighter (Ali) dropped out of the fight for the last third of the fight (last 5 rounds), just trying to survive to the end.

Ali was down and then staggering all over the ring in the 11th round, and then knocked flat on his back in the 15th round.

The fight showed two things

1--that Ali didn't have the punch to keep Frazier off him

2--that Ali couldn't defend himself against Frazier's left hook.

The so-called referee for that fight, Arthur Merchante, deserved an award for biased "refereeing,"

sticking his fingers in Frazier's eye in the 10th round,

calling a clear knockdown of Ali by Frazier in the 11th round a "slip,"

hacking at Frazier's arms in the clinches even though it was Ali doing the holding,

and frantically throwing his body in front of Frazier at the end of every round as if he were terrified that Frazier might throw a punch after the bell. While Merchante did this, he had his back to Ali.


The Louis of the Schmeling title defense would have been a good fight against Johnson.

The Ali and Frazier of their first fight wouldn't have bothered to show up against that Louis.

[Goodnight, Irene]

"...calling a clear knockdown of Ali by Frazier in the 11th round a "slip..." - Gran



Better get that optometrist's prescription sorted, you loveable old fossil, you. Can I knuckle your head for good luck?

[granberry]

"...calling a clear knockdown of Ali by Frazier in the 11th round a "slip..." - Gran



Better get that optometrist's prescription sorted, you loveable old fossil, you. Can I knuckle your head for good luck?

Irene has had her head knuckled TOO MANY TIMES.

Frazier hit Ali with a left hook and Ali went down on both knees at the beginning of the 11th round.

That was after Ali had just taken a horrific beating on the ropes at the end of the 10th round. The minute's rest wasn't enough for Ali to recover.

Ali staggered around so badly in the 11th round that flaming Ali shill Ferdie Pacheco called that round "the terrible 11th" in a book he wrote.

Maybe Irene can buy up all the copies of Pacheco's book and tear out those pages.

Go to it, halfwit.

[JAHamilton77]

guess someone didnt read the subject's explanation :(

[Goodnight, Irene]

Gran at her very best...

"Irene has had her head knuckled TOO MANY TIMES..."



"...Frazier hit Ali with a left hook and Ali went down on both knees at the beginning of the 11th round..."

He showed zero cognitive instability while he was down, or when he got up. No pain, or grimace in his face. Ali slipped. Even Don Dunphy believes so. I guess he'll be deemed no longer competent for the transgression.

"...That was after Ali had just taken a horrific beating on the ropes at the end of the 10th round. The minute's rest wasn't enough for Ali to recover..."

I agree.

"...Ali staggered around so badly in the 11th round that flaming Ali shill Ferdie Pacheco called that round "the terrible 11th" in a book he wrote..."

Pacheco is a flaming shill, & hopelessly biased on the subject of Ali. I have footage of Pacheco actually referring to the round as, "the terrible eleventh." It's in reference to the final minute or so of the round, & has nothing to do with the slip, but to borrow a line from Jimmy Young Gran, "We know what happened, don't we?"

"Maybe Irene can buy up all the copies of Pacheco's book and tear out those pages.

Go to it, halfwit."

Granny, your trickery & distortions do not fool me. I see through your smoke-&-mirrors cardgame, but you are yet to realise it. Ali was knocked flat on his back, & Granny is in such agony, she cannot bare to mention Ali got straight back up.

Maybe Granny can buy up all the copies of the Ali-Frazier I bout & edit the footage to suit her agenda.

Go to it, you little scamp.

*Goodnight, Irene gives Gran an appreciative knuckling of the head*

[Goodnight, Irene]

What top 3 fights do you believe to be the biggest ever, in terms of significance in & beyond boxing?

Not necessarily the highest grossing or exciting, but highly significant?

For me they are:-

1) Jack Johnson -v- Jim Jeffries - I know it was 100 years ago & I certainly wasn't around then, but from reading about it, I now believe that this was the biggest boxing match, probably ever. Each fighter was said to be representing a race & the result & the manner of Johnson's victory probably changed HW boxing forever. Johnson winning effectively barred any black fighters from fighting for the title for over 2 decades!

2) Joe Louis -v- Max Schmeling 2 - Not that either fighter wanted it, but each man was representing an ideology. How ironic in the light of Jack Johnson's treatment over 20 years earlier that a black heavyweight would represent the so-called free world against Nazism (not that Schmeling was a Nazi).

3) Frazier -v- Ali 1 - Quite simply the fight of the 20th century. Were it not for the wider social & cultural significance of the 1st 2 fights on my list, this would be the biggest fight of all time, bar none. 2 undefeated champions, both with legitimate claims to be champion of the world. Dial in the fact that you have the most charismatic human that ever lived versus the indomitable Frazier, it all added up to one hell of an event.

Hard to argue with your choices, & well-painted explanation on Johnson-Jeffries. Louis-Schmeling II had greater international significance than Johnson-Jeffries, but the domestic impact in both fights was ground-breaking. Ali-Frazier I doesn't quite have that as you mentioned, though it is certainly the most entertaining of those bouts.

[Sweet Scientist]

"...calling a clear knockdown of Ali by Frazier in the 11th round a "slip..." - Gran



Better get that optometrist's prescription sorted, you loveable old fossil, you. Can I knuckle your head for good luck?

Irene has had her head knuckled TOO MANY TIMES.

Frazier hit Ali with a left hook and Ali went down on both knees at the beginning of the 11th round.

That was after Ali had just taken a horrific beating on the ropes at the end of the 10th round. The minute's rest wasn't enough for Ali to recover.

Ali staggered around so badly in the 11th round that flaming Ali shill Ferdie Pacheco called that round "the terrible 11th" in a book he wrote.

Maybe Irene can buy up all the copies of Pacheco's book and tear out those pages.

Go to it, halfwit.

Terap...When did they let you back in?

[granberry]

guess someone didnt read the subject's explanation :(

Or someone read it only too well.

[observer1]

Thrilla in Manilla.

Ali and Frazier Both ha Unfinished Buisness.

It was sort of the Decider...

Rumble in the Jungle.

Fact that They were ready to Send Ali to the Hospital Before the Match, and Foreman the undefeated the Champ was set to Destroy Ali. Turned out to be Foremans only Loss by KO.

[granberry]

Thrilla in Manilla.

Ali and Frazier Both ha Unfinished Buisness.

It was sort of the Decider...

Rumble in the Jungle.

Fact that They were ready to Send Ali to the Hospital Before the Match, and Foreman the undefeated the Champ was set to Destroy Ali. Turned out to be Foremans only Loss by KO.

You never heard of John L Sullivan.

You never heard of Jack Dempsey.

And you never will.

[dagosd2000]

Just on significance,not necessarily on quality


1. John L. Sullivan vs. James J. Corbett(first gloved heavyweight championship fight)

2. Jack Johnson vs. Tommy Burns(first black man to win heavyweight title)

3. Joe Louis vs. Max Schmeling II(pre World War II significance. Roosevelt had the Brown Bomber in the White House. May have done more for racial acceptance than any other sporting event)

[Syntax Error]

Just on significance,not necessarily on quality


1. John L. Sullivan vs. James J. Corbett(first gloved heavyweight championship fight)

2. Jack Johnson vs. Tommy Burns(first black man to win heavyweight title)

3. Joe Louis vs. Max Schmeling II(pre World War II significance. Roosevelt had the Brown Bomber in the White House. May have done more for racial acceptance than any other sporting event)

Good shouts, especially Sullivan -v- Corbett.

[BO Selecta]

1) Jack Johnson -v- Jim Jeffries -

During the 6 years he hadn't fought Jeffries smoked heavily and ate like a glutton, gaining close to 100 pounds.

For the "fight" with Johnson, Jeffries lost close to 100 pounds in a short amount of time

had no warm up fights to determine if he could still fight at all

did almost no sparring, and the most of the sparring he did was with long retired fighters like Jim Corbett and Joe Choynski.
The trainers from his championship days were not around his camp.

The fight itself demonstrated two things:

1---that Johnson was not a puncher---it took Johnson 15 rounds to get rid of the shell of Jeffries. If the situation had been reversed Johnson would not have gotten through the first round.

2---what a phsyical specimen Jeffries was even in that decrepit condition, staying for 15 rounds against Johnson in his prime.

That fight does not rate as a significant fight, since Johnson was fighting the shell of Jeffries.

2) Joe Louis -v- Max Schmeling 2 -

Yes, since the clueless media and the Ken Burns types have NO INTEREST in boxing and have ZERO knowledge of boxing

they need a non-boxing tag to even mention the subject of boxing.

3) Frazier -v- Ali 1 -

Not a great fight, since one fighter (Ali) dropped out of the fight for the last third of the fight (last 5 rounds), just trying to survive to the end.

Ali was down and then staggering all over the ring in the 11th round, and then knocked flat on his back in the 15th round.

The fight showed two things

1--that Ali didn't have the punch to keep Frazier off him

2--that Ali couldn't defend himself against Frazier's left hook.

The so-called referee for that fight, Arthur Merchante, deserved an award for biased "refereeing,"

sticking his fingers in Frazier's eye in the 10th round,

calling a clear knockdown of Ali by Frazier in the 11th round a "slip,"

hacking at Frazier's arms in the clinches even though it was Ali doing the holding,

and frantically throwing his body in front of Frazier at the end of every round as if he were terrified that Frazier might throw a punch after the bell. While Merchante did this, he had his back to Ali.


The Louis of the Schmeling title defense would have been a good fight against Johnson.

The Ali and Frazier of their first fight wouldn't have bothered to show up against that Louis.

Granberry, how can you say that Johnson -v- Jeffries had no significance at all?

This fight was fought with horrendous racial undertones, with each fighter being put forth as a defender of their respective race.

Johnson's nonchalant victory effectively cast the die that no black man would ever fight for the HW title again after he eventually lost the title (OK, it turned out it was 20+ years, but you can't predict the future).

OK, Jeffries was past his best & rusty, but that is not Johnson's fault, that was Jeffries' fault, as he had repeatedly refused to fight Johnson, who had been chasing him since 1903!

Jeffries retired rather than face Johnson: Johnson toyed with Jeffries from what I have read & seen & probably could have KO'd him a lot sooner.

That fight was massively significant.

[granberry]

1) Jack Johnson -v- Jim Jeffries -

During the 6 years he hadn't fought Jeffries smoked heavily and ate like a glutton, gaining close to 100 pounds.

For the "fight" with Johnson, Jeffries lost close to 100 pounds in a short amount of time

had no warm up fights to determine if he could still fight at all

did almost no sparring, and the most of the sparring he did was with long retired fighters like Jim Corbett and Joe Choynski.
The trainers from his championship days were not around his camp.

The fight itself demonstrated two things:

1---that Johnson was not a puncher---it took Johnson 15 rounds to get rid of the shell of Jeffries. If the situation had been reversed Johnson would not have gotten through the first round.

2---what a phsyical specimen Jeffries was even in that decrepit condition, staying for 15 rounds against Johnson in his prime.

That fight does not rate as a significant fight, since Johnson was fighting the shell of Jeffries.

2) Joe Louis -v- Max Schmeling 2 -

Yes, since the clueless media and the Ken Burns types have NO INTEREST in boxing and have ZERO knowledge of boxing

they need a non-boxing tag to even mention the subject of boxing.

3) Frazier -v- Ali 1 -

Not a great fight, since one fighter (Ali) dropped out of the fight for the last third of the fight (last 5 rounds), just trying to survive to the end.

Ali was down and then staggering all over the ring in the 11th round, and then knocked flat on his back in the 15th round.

The fight showed two things

1--that Ali didn't have the punch to keep Frazier off him

2--that Ali couldn't defend himself against Frazier's left hook.

The so-called referee for that fight, Arthur Merchante, deserved an award for biased "refereeing,"

sticking his fingers in Frazier's eye in the 10th round,

calling a clear knockdown of Ali by Frazier in the 11th round a "slip,"

hacking at Frazier's arms in the clinches even though it was Ali doing the holding,

and frantically throwing his body in front of Frazier at the end of every round as if he were terrified that Frazier might throw a punch after the bell. While Merchante did this, he had his back to Ali.


The Louis of the Schmeling title defense would have been a good fight against Johnson.

The Ali and Frazier of their first fight wouldn't have bothered to show up against that Louis.

Granberry, how can you say that Johnson -v- Jeffries had no significance at all?

This fight was fought with horrendous racial undertones, with each fighter being put forth as a defender of their respective race.

Johnson's nonchalant victory effectively cast the die that no black man would ever fight for the HW title again after he eventually lost the title (OK, it turned out it was 20+ years, but you can't predict the future).

OK, Jeffries was past his best & rusty, but that is not Johnson's fault, that was Jeffries' fault, as he had repeatedly refused to fight Johnson, who had been chasing him since 1903!

Jeffries retired rather than face Johnson: Johnson toyed with Jeffries from what I have read & seen & probably could have KO'd him a lot sooner.

That fight was massively significant.

BO regurgitates the straight Ken Burns talking points.

Jeffries wasn't "past his best & rusty," as clueless Ken Burns would have you believe--and as BO regurgitates.

Read my post above.

Jeffries spent the six years since he retired eating like a glutton, smoked heavily the entire time, and gained close to 100 pounds over his fighting weight.

He wasn't "rusty"---He lost close to 100 pounds in a short amount of time--He had no warmup fights to determine if he could even fight at all---He did no sparring except against long retired Jim Corbett and Joe Choynski, and his own brother.

Bob Armstrong was frozen out of Jeffries camp by Corbett and others.

I am sure you know who Bob Armstrong is, don't you BO, since you and your clueless media mentor Ken Burns are bigtime boxing "experts."

The "fight" was a farce because Jeffries had NO LEGS and no reflexes.

The ONLY thing the farce of a "fight" showed was

1---Johnson was not a puncher---it took him 15 rounds to get rid of Jeffries

2---The fact that Jeffries was such a physical specimen that he could drag on for 15 rounds even in his decrepit condition.

REGURGITATING your politically correct, clueless Ken Burns crap, you write

"Jeffries retired rather than face Johnson"

That is horsesh*t.

Johnson lost a 20 round decision to Marvin Hart just before Jeffries retired.

Johnson showed he had no big punch against Hart.

Johnson showed in that fight he would not have been competition for Jeffries.


You REGURGITATE the Ken Burns talking points:

"Johnson toyed with Jeffries from what I have read & seen & probably could have KO'd him a lot sooner."

In the real world Johnson fought a very careful fight even though it was obvious from the start that Jeffries had nothing.

Johnson waited until Jeffries' legs went completely. That took 15 rounds, because Johnson had no big punch on a heavyweight championship level.

He was a defensive boxer who specialized in short punches in close.

You REGURGITATE

"That fight was massively significant. "

That fight is significant only to media phonies who have no interest in boxing like modern media hot shot Ken Burns and his clueless disciples.

As a fight it was garbage.

The politically correct Ken Burns incompetence and raw horsesh*t contaminates everything he and the modern media touch.

Ken Burns omitted Stan Musial completely from his 100-hour "expert" baseball documentary.

Stan Musial won SEVEN National League batting titles.

But he wasn't good enough for Ken Burns' "expert" baseball documentary.

I wonder why.

Keep swallowing and regurgitating word for word your modern media agenda driven horsh*t, BO.

.

[Sweet Scientist]

Thrilla in Manilla.

Ali and Frazier Both ha Unfinished Buisness.

It was sort of the Decider...

Rumble in the Jungle.

Fact that They were ready to Send Ali to the Hospital Before the Match, and Foreman the undefeated the Champ was set to Destroy Ali. Turned out to be Foremans only Loss by KO.

You never heard of John L Sullivan.


You never heard of Jack Dempsey.

And you never will.

AND...I SUPPOSE YOU NEVER HEARD OF "TERAP" A POSTER WHO WAS BANNED FROM HERE THREE YEARS AGO...

DOES ANYONE HERE REALISE WHO THIS POSTER IS?

[granberry]

Members of the Religion of Ken Burns demand a ONE-WAY communication.

They become hysterical if anyone points out the obvious incompetence of their Ken Burns.

Their agenda MUST prevail.

If they detect the slightest disagreement with their agenda

they become frantic.

[observer1]

You never heard of John L Sullivan.

You never heard of Jack Dempsey.

And you never will.

Yes, i Have actually... I am not A Boxing "Expert" nor do i claim to be one..

The Most "Popular" Dempsey Match it seems to ME, appears to be the Firpo Match... May not have been his Biggest game, but the Flying outta the ring incident seems got everybody talking about Boxing..

I do not know much about Sullivan, except the fact he loved bare knuckle boxing except he refuse to fight a Black Dude.

Fact is those two were big in the Boxing World only

Reason i said "Thrilla in Manila" and "Rumble in the Jungle" was because:

a) It was significant as it was 2 Popular Boxers who got talking People Outisde the Whole of Sport (never mind Just boxing) talking.

b) it was staged outside the US which certainly got more people in the world interested.

c) and i did to see what you reaction would be

[BoxBuzz]

Thrilla in Manilla.

Ali and Frazier Both ha Unfinished Buisness.

It was sort of the Decider...

Rumble in the Jungle.

Fact that They were ready to Send Ali to the Hospital Before the Match, and Foreman the undefeated the Champ was set to Destroy Ali. Turned out to be Foremans only Loss by KO.

You never heard of John L Sullivan.


You never heard of Jack Dempsey.

And you never will.

AND...I SUPPOSE YOU NEVER HEARD OF "TERAP" A POSTER WHO WAS BANNED FROM HERE THREE YEARS AGO...

DOES ANYONE HERE REALISE WHO THIS POSTER IS?

yep, many of us do. And some of us are simply reading without prejudice to much of this. As long as he refrains from personal attacks it's all harmless enough.

I can tell you all day long that there is no gravity, but as long as your not flying off the planet sometime this evening, I would say all's well. IMHO.

[granberry]

Those who have so little background that they swallow the Ken Burns crap

DEMAND that it not be allowed for anyone to mention that

Jack Johnson disgraced himself and his heavyweight championship by hiding from and refusing to defend his title against Sam Langford--by far his most dangerous challenger.

These same Ken Burns disciples also demand that anyone must be silenced who calls them on their false talking point that Jim Jeffries refused to fight the same Sam Langford.

In the real world, Sam Langford weighed 156 pounds when he fought Jack Johnson AFTER Jeffries had retired.

Langford was not even a full grown middleweight while Jeffries was champion

but that cannot stop those who have an agenda to sell.

[Poncey]

Depends on how you classify biggest:

1) Willard v Dempsey (think 100,000 turned up for this)
2) Spinks v Ali II (biggest indoor attendance ever)
3) Foreman v Ali (wasn't this the first fight to be shown live in cinemas?)

[Seamus]

Take the Johnson v Jeffries fight and throw out all the political and racial ramifications and look at strictly in sporting terms as two men competing in a boxing ring. Once you do that it's a totally meaningless fight because one of the competitors hadn't fought in 5 years and had to drop over 70 lbs. It was a total mismatch from the beginning.

[ringsider]

"...calling a clear knockdown of Ali by Frazier in the 11th round a "slip..." - Gran



Better get that optometrist's prescription sorted, you loveable old fossil, you. Can I knuckle your head for good luck?

Prescription......a seeing eye dog is what granpaberry is needing.

[granberry]

Foreman v Ali (wasn't this the first fight to be shown live in cinemas?)

First fight on a theater-television network in the US--Joe Louis-Lee Savold--June 15, 1951

First drive-in theater to show telecast direct from ringside--Marciano-Walcott Sept. 23, 1952

[Ezzard]

Although maybe not seen as such at the time Charles-Moore fights have the distinction of possibly the 2 greatest light-heavyweights of all-time fighting one another. Rarely does history serve up the 1 and 2 in the same era.

You might argue that the Pep-Saddler fights were also pitching the 2 greatest at the weights against one another BUT there is the question of the plane crash etc...

I guess a case could alos be made for Robinson-Gavilan.