Your Favourite Fighter - The Toughest Moment?

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 11 Feb 2008, 05:05

So here's the deal...

Amongst your favourite fighters, what were the most difficult moments throughout their career you watched? These need not necessarily be the toughest moments of the fighters' careers per se, just the ones you hated. The catch is you must have either witnessed the occurrence, or it happened & you found out a short time later, so in other words while you were a fan, no favourites from before your birth, time as a fight fan, etc.

Ironically, this has been inspired by my recent re-visiting of Hopkins-Trinidad, which at the time I thought was fantastic (In 2001, the, "Titosites", as his rabid fans were known, were indefatigable) but nowadays, it's tough not to feel bad for Trinidad, he really did fight until the very end.

For me...

De La Hoya-Mosley II

I thought De La Hoya definitely won it, & you knew all along he badly wanted to avenge that initial defeat. It was tough to hear the final scores. Robbery, IMO.

De La Hoya-Trinidad

See above. Don King horseshit :x

De La Hoya-Hopkins

I thought right from the moment it was announced this wasn't going to go well. Still, having to watch De La Hoya over-matched (physically), well beaten on the cards for eight long rounds, & finally suffer the only KO defeat of his entire career was the absolute worst moment as a De La Hoya fan I can remember :(

Whitaker-Trinidad

The size & age disparity was evident, but the worst was knowing the difference in ability between the two, but Whitaker still couldn't win because of said age & size difference. You knew pound-for-pound & in their primes, Trinidad would've been shut-out, it was awful tough to go through.

Evander Holyfield

Pretty much all of the last six or seven years :(

Tszyu-Hatton

Strictly speaking, I'm not a Tszyu fan, however given my country's lack of stars, you always had to pull for him. It was a long, slow, methodical (& at times, savage) wear-down defeat for an older fighter.

GAVILAN · Post by **GAVILAN** » 11 Feb 2008, 14:40

Trinidad vs. Hopkins - Watching Tito taking the beating of his life was tough to me.

Cotto vs. Torres - When Torres catched Cotto flush and put him in queer street it was painfull for me. If Cotto decided to box more during that fight he would not have been hit so much.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 11 Feb 2008, 14:53

The Holyfield-Ruiz trilogy.
To watch a heavily eroded Evander look so lethargic against such an average boxer, someone he would've destroyed in his prime, was tough to watch (from the point of view of a fan AND b/c the fights were just dreadful)

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 11 Feb 2008, 15:23

Trinidad v Hopkins - the above comment says it all.

Duran v Hearns - still hurts me to watch. Ouch!

Graham v Jackson - see above

Hatton v Mayweather - I wish I had a time machine and could sew his lips up!

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 11 Feb 2008, 21:31

I thought Mosley beat Oscar the second fight, and while I thought Oscar beat Trinidad, I only thought he won by a round or so. After seeing Oscar get to many gifts its sort of hard for me to empathize with him over the difference of a one or two point swing.

Anyway:

Ali-Holmes is hard to watch.

The end of Robinson-Maxim, such a potentially big win disappearing out of such odd circumstances.

Morales-Pacquiao III... watching one of the toughest guys in boxing in recent years being reduced to helplessness.

I'll also go with Holyfield of the last six or seven years... especially every time that he announces that he is going to continue fighting, you sort of feel like he's going through a very slow suicide.

As for Hopkins-Trinidad... I think that's the most joyous fight in recent boxing history.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 11 Feb 2008, 21:38

"...The end of Robinson-Maxim, such a potentially big win disappearing out of such odd circumstances..." - I Feel Fine

You were around at the time of that fight?

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 12 Feb 2008, 00:22

My favourite fighter is Roy Jones Jr. Need I say more?

Elton John · Post by **Elton John** » 12 Feb 2008, 00:53

I share your pain Marlin. I cant figure why Roy has keeps fighting on and risking his health. I also think he should have been a much bigger star than what he was.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 12 Feb 2008, 01:42

....immediate thought....those ten seconds in the charles/walcott fight number three...

..yeah..that maxim/robinson finish hurt too.....and why the question about feel fine's being around then? hell, it's not like being the last living veteran of world war I.

hey...i sat close to the radio with my grandfather and listened to joe louis fights, and I'm not even the oldest guy on my street.

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 12 Feb 2008, 02:18

When I was a very young kid, my favorite boxer by far was Meldrick Taylor. I watched the fight live with my dad, it was exhilirating during the match seeing Meldrick do well against one of the best boxers in boxing. He was fading faster and faster there was a few seconds left in the fight and he got TKO'd and it devastated me. Even watching the fight now it is hard the end of the fight. I mean, I really feel in my heart he should've gotten the benefit of the doubt. Both guys were champions and there was alot on the line. It sucks that a guy who fought the fight of his life was a few seconds away from a sure victory, never gotten the moment of celebrating it. Maybe its me being bias, but its a feeling that never faded away.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 12 Feb 2008, 02:21

Jaclem wrote:....immediate thought....those ten seconds in the charles/walcott fight number three...

..yeah..that maxim/robinson finish hurt too.....and why the question about feel fine's being around then? hell, it's not like being the last living veteran of world war I.

hey...i sat close to the radio with my grandfather and listened to joe louis fights, and I'm not even the oldest guy on my street.

Now just a minute there, Mr. Jaclem, I've got good reason to ask. First, I didn't specify until fairly late in my thread that you had to be around for the fight (Done to help capture the feel of the fight at that time), so it's entirely possible IFF just breezed through & posted.

Secondly, IFF just didn't strike me as being a part of that age bracket. You might argue I'm just going off words on a screen, but --- case in point --- if someone writes to you in a thread: "oh, that's kewl. were r u goin 2 2moro then???" suffice to say, you're not discussing boxing with an adult. I was merely expressing my surprise if IFF was around at that time, so back off!

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 12 Feb 2008, 04:06

generic screen name wrote:When I was a very young kid, my favorite boxer by far was Meldrick Taylor. I watched the fight live with my dad, it was exhilirating during the match seeing Meldrick do well against one of the best boxers in boxing. He was fading faster and faster there was a few seconds left in the fight and he got TKO'd and it devastated me. Even watching the fight now it is hard the end of the fight. I mean, I really feel in my heart he should've gotten the benefit of the doubt. Both guys were champions and there was alot on the line. It sucks that a guy who fought the fight of his life was a few seconds away from a sure victory, never gotten the moment of celebrating it. Maybe its me being bias, but its a feeling that never faded away.

You can thank "referee" Richard STEAL for that.

(And for many others).

Judge Dave Moretti had the fight 107-102 for Meldrick Taylor.

Judge Jerry Roth had it 108-101 for Taylor.

Matt W · Post by **Matt W** » 12 Feb 2008, 07:39

Herol Graham being stopped by Charles Brewer after having him down early.

Holyfield getting beaten up by James Toney (and not retiring afterwards).

And despite being no apologist for him I was strangely saddened watching Tyson get beaten up by Lennox Lewis. I think it was a combination of disappointment following the hype, the fact that it's never pleasant seeing somebody out of their depth taking a beating, and the fact that it felt like it was the closure of an era that began with me excitedly watching his fights as a kid on a Sunday morning.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 12 Feb 2008, 07:58

pat cowdell, a total boxing genius, getting ko'ed in the first by some guy.
but...he came back a few fights later and beat the same guy inside the distance!!!!!!!!!
then he lost to floyd havard. i loved cowdell.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 12 Feb 2008, 10:10

"You can thank "referee" Richard STEAL for that.

(And for many others).

Judge Dave Moretti had the fight 107-102 for Meldrick Taylor.

Judge Jerry Roth had it 108-101 for Taylor." - Granberry

I absolutely could not disagree more.

As for the timing of the stoppage, it is no different from stopping it halfway through the sixth round. However, there would've been no complaints if that were the case. The fight isn't scheduled for eleven rounds & fifty-eight seconds & should never be treated as such, regardless of the circumstances.

The whole reason people get up in arms over that fight is misguided anyway. The general concensus among those who whinge about the stoppage is, "Sure, Taylor couldn't continue another round, but the bell was two seconds away, & so he deserved to be let go."

That is totally absurd. What's the difference to Taylor being out in the fifth, sixth or seventh, as opposed to being in equally bad condition with a few seconds to go? The fight is scheduled for twelve complete rounds. No exceptions.

I suppose, in the wash-up, you could call Chavez lucky, since a lot of ref's would have let that go. Doesn't make them right.

However, there is no basis for that being deemed a poor stoppage. None.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 12 Feb 2008, 11:30

harrygreb wrote:pat cowdell, a total boxing genius, getting ko'ed in the first by some guy.
but...he came back a few fights later and beat the same guy inside the distance!!!!!!!!!
then he lost to floyd havard. i loved cowdell.

me too. He was unlucky to face Sanchez and Nelson in title fights. Would have loved to have seen him in with McGuigan.

Najob Daho was the bloke who stopped him.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 12 Feb 2008, 11:50

Pat Cowdell gave Salvador Sanchez a hell of a fight, and alot of that had to do with his style. SS thrived on facing guys who threw everything but the kitchen sink at him. Cowdell frustrated him though by using his jab and boxing cautiously. Scores may have been a little close, but still it was quite a performance.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 12 Feb 2008, 12:10

Seamus wrote:Pat Cowdell gave Salvador Sanchez a hell of a fight, and alot of that had to do with his style. SS thrived on facing guys who threw everything but the kitchen sink at him. Cowdell frustrated him though by using his jab and boxing cautiously. Scores may have been a little close, but still it was quite a performance.

Totally agree. People say Sanchez fought below par in that fight but they don't realise that Cowdell was a really good fighter.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 12 Feb 2008, 12:11

Goodnight, Irene wrote:"You can thank "referee" Richard STEAL for that.

(And for many others).

Judge Dave Moretti had the fight 107-102 for Meldrick Taylor.

Judge Jerry Roth had it 108-101 for Taylor." - Granberry

I absolutely could not disagree more.

You think Richard STEAL was NOT the referee?

You are blind to 'referee' Richard STEAL's endless track record working for Don King's interests?

You think those judges DID NOT score the fight for Taylor in a lopsided margin?

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 12 Feb 2008, 14:44

..hey irene.....i don't think i have to back off because i wasn't really in your face that much.....just a half kidding remark about respect for the antiques here who can still feed ourselves and even able to write about boxing....

..while i am here....you are right on about taylor and chavez....i've written about this one a lot....the referee is NOT a time keeper. they have a fellow sitting at ringside for that. taylor was taking a real beating and the judges and tv announcers were nuts in having him that far ahead.

..all of the above taylor/chavez is redundant, as mr. goodnight has covered it so well....but without redundancy the world would be silent 90% of the time. whether that would be good or bad is off topic...

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 12 Feb 2008, 17:47

Patterson Vs Ali 1-

To me this fight is just plain painful. I dont think Patterson would have beaten Ali. BUT in this fight it was clear he was not 100%. If it was his back injury or just an off night, in either case it was a bad night not to be feeling your best. I hate this fight to watch out of all of my favourite guys fights.

Patterson Vs Litson 1 and 2-

Patterson being dominated and owned, Liston had his number and would dominate him at nearly any stage.

Holmes Vs Spinks 1-

I think to call this a draw would be fare, but out of all the Holmes fights in his title reign this is the one where he looked the oldest and past his best. Holmes could not adjust to the in and out awkwardness of Spinks.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 12 Feb 2008, 17:58

Patterson Vs Ali 1-

To me this fight is just plain painful. I dont think Patterson would have beaten Ali. BUT in this fight it was clear he was not 100%. If it was his back injury or just an off night, in either case it was a bad night not to be feeling your best. I hate this fight to watch out of all of my favourite guys fights.

Patterson Vs Litson 1 and 2-

Patterson being dominated and owned, Liston had his number and would dominate him at nearly any stage.

Holmes Vs Spinks 1-

I think to call this a draw would be fare, but out of all the Holmes fights in his title reign this is the one where he looked the oldest and past his best. Holmes could not adjust to the in and out awkwardness of Spinks.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 12 Feb 2008, 18:13

Goodnight, Irene wrote: "oh, that's kewl. were r u goin 2 2moro then???"

I don't think I've ever spoken that way. Anyway, no, I wasn't around at the time, so you can cross that one off.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 12 Feb 2008, 21:38

My guy was Jose Napoles and he had three fights that are painfull for me to watch. I seldom look at them

1.Armando Muniz I: Jose wasn't in good shape and couldn't handle Muniz's body attack. Napoles started to foul Muniz. Jose was cut around the eyes as usual. Jose Sulieman told the referee to give the fight to Napoles on a foul(head butt). Wholesale robbery.

2.Carlos Monzon : A fight that shouldn't have been made. Angelo Dundee told me in San Diego he wanted that fight. Napoles 's style went right into Carlos's power. After he split Jose's eye open, Napoles was a sitting duck for Carlos's big right hand.

1.John Stracey : After Jose's two fights with Muniz,he'd had it. Had Stracey down in the 1st round,but in the 2nd both eyes open up and Napoles has nothing left in the tank by the 6th. Dundee said Jose just looked at film on Stracey and did most of his training betting the nags at the track.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 13 Feb 2008, 02:13

Robinson wrote:Patterson Vs Ali 1-

To me this fight is just plain painful. I dont think Patterson would have beaten Ali. BUT in this fight it was clear he was not 100%. If it was his back injury or just an off night, in either case it was a bad night not to be feeling your best. I hate this fight to watch out of all of my favourite guys fights.

Patterson Vs Litson 1 and 2-

Patterson being dominated and owned, Liston had his number and would dominate him at nearly any stage.

Holmes Vs Spinks 1-

I think to call this a draw would be fare, but out of all the Holmes fights in his title reign this is the one where he looked the oldest and past his best. Holmes could not adjust to the in and out awkwardness of Spinks.

Were you a boxing fan at the time of those fights?