Harold Johnson Vs Floyd Patterson 1957

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 12 Feb 2008, 17:22

Hey guys I am curious to know how a fight between Johnson and Patterson would have gone down.

I know Patterson would be a big favourite but Johnson is a handy boxer.

Lets say that the fight happens mid to late 1957.

Patterson - 6', 184lb
Johnson - 5'10, 180lb

Who wins and how do you see the fight playing out guys ?

Thanks again

Kym

telboy66 · Post by **telboy66** » 13 Feb 2008, 15:54

Yeah this would have been a great one both boxers were in a run of 22 unbeaten at that time. I take Johnson to win on points as he took a shot better than Paterson allthough plenty put Paterson down but many kept him there even against Liston & johansen he was still getting up you had to nail him down

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 13 Feb 2008, 16:02

This would have been an interesting matchup. Johnson did fight several heavyweights (including Eddie Machen) and although he came up short occasionally, he was pretty successful.
It's entirely possible that Johnson could win this thing on points. He was a great boxer who was fundamentally sound.

It's also very possible that Patterson could win a decision or score a knockout. Patterson was always vulnerable to power punchers, but Johnson wasn't one and so Patterson shouldn't be in much danger of being stopped.

It would be interesting to see how Johnson would handle Patterson's peek aboo, Patterson jumping at him, Patterson's handspeed, avoiding a big lefthook and if Johnson could take it if Patterson landed it.

Johnson was very smart and talented, but I'm guessing that Patterson would give him too many problems. I am picking Patterson, but it's a tough call.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 13 Feb 2008, 16:06

I'll pick the slight under-dog that is Harold Johnson in this fight, he's extremely under-rated and had very good success at higher weights. I think it would go the distance and Johnson would edge Patterson on points.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 13 Feb 2008, 20:36

How much film is available of Johnson ?

I have only snippets, and what I have seen
I do like him as a fighter.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 16 Feb 2008, 14:49

..a lot of boxing people wanted this fight to happen, with the exception of one person...cus d'amato.

those quick flurries by patterson could always be dangerous, but i'd have taken johnson to win this one.

i don't know what johnson films are available. i've said before that if harold versus doug jones could be seen by those who weren't around when it was televised they'd realize what a near-perfect fighter harold johnson was. his performance in this was text book.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 16 Feb 2008, 15:39

Johnson would have won any contest where you were allowed only

to use your left to jab

and your open right hand to block a jab.

His jab was like a rapier.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 16 Feb 2008, 22:12

granberry wrote:Johnson would have won any contest where you were allowed only

to use your left to jab

and your open right hand to block a jab.

His jab was like a rapier.

How relevant & insightful :)

Minotauro · Post by **Minotauro** » 17 Feb 2008, 12:12

I think Patterson would win Johnson didn't have the power to take Floyd out and Patterson was so quick in his prime I think he would end it late, would have been a great fight.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 17 Feb 2008, 14:45

Robinson wrote: Johnson - 5'10, 180lb

I have stood next to Johnson many times.

He is 5' 8 1/2". Maybe 5' 9" if you want to be generous.

Of course buzz may want to delete this post since it comes from someone who had direct contact with Johnson.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 17 Feb 2008, 15:36

..how come when i get a notificatiion of reply i click it on and then i get no such topic exists? this is frightening as i am imagining that i have not only just read a reply but i'm, now writing one myself.

i think granberry is right...box buzz must be involved in this some way.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 17 Feb 2008, 17:27

I would have to say Floyd.

It's interesting. HomicideHenry says of Johnson that he was "extremely under-rated and had good success at higher weights." You could say the exact same of Patterson, moreso, since he was Heavyweight champion. I think the thing people forget about Patterson is that he did come up from Middleweight, which at least in part explains why he sometimes had trouble taking a Heavyweight punch. He was smaller than most of his opponents at Heavyweight, but he was one of the most skilled and gifted fighters in the division. I think it would be good if people kept that in mind when judging Patterson; he wasn't a "mediocre" Heavyweight champion, he was a great fighter closer to a Light Heavyweight than to a Heavyweight who was good enough to become Heavyweight champion, sort of like Ezzard Charles. Against guys closer to his natural size he destroyed other natural Light Heavyweights like Maxim (robbery) and Moore (for the title). I think a lot of guys, like Johnson, who were smaller than Patterson would have an extremely tough time with him. I think he beats most of the great Light Heavyweights.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 17 Feb 2008, 17:49

I Feel Fine wrote:I would have to say Floyd.

he destroyed other natural Light Heavyweights like Maxim

I wasn't aware that Patterson destroyed Maxim.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 17 Feb 2008, 17:51

He sure did. There's a lot of things you aren't aware of.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 17 Feb 2008, 17:57

Another thing also is that Patterson is really not much bigger than Johnson. Even though Johnson is leaping into the bigger mens division. This is in turn is of great credit to Patterson as 'I feel fine' has illustarted.

I thought the Patterson-Maxim fight was very close. The version I have is missing two rounds. What I have watched is that a very green Patterson looked pretty good against a very experienced Maxim, when Maxim was still very handy.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 17 Feb 2008, 18:03

When I say "destroy" I just mean that he blasted Maxim with hard shots in every round and seemed to stagger him in nearly every round of the fight. Obviously the term "destroy" is subjective. But I don't need granny to tell me what words I should be using

Patterson could have thrown more punches at times, but I think he was the clear winner.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 17 Feb 2008, 18:10

From the 6 rounds I saw I felt Patterson was the winner.

Patterson was very spurty in that fight which I guess is always hard to judge/

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 17 Feb 2008, 18:28

I Feel Fine wrote:When I say "destroy" I just mean that he blasted Maxim with hard shots in every round and seemed to stagger him in nearly every round of the fight.

In your imagination.

D'Amato tried to avoid having Patterson fight smart, well-schooled boxers after that.

That's why he wouldn't let Patterson fight his top contenders, Machen and Folley--resulting in the stinking up of all of boxing.

Patterson "destroyed" Maxim,

"blasted Maxim with hard shots in every round"

"seemed to stagger him in nearly every round of the fight"

only in your dreams.

Maxim is the only fighter to beat Floyd Patterson and Sugar Ray Robinson.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 17 Feb 2008, 18:39

Granberry

what was Johnson like in person ? what were your impresions of him ?

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 17 Feb 2008, 18:50

Yes, the only fighter to beat Patterson and Robinson. Sort of like Camacho beating Leonard and Duran.

Patterson kicked Maxim's ass. After he was champion and had stopped listening to D'Amato he also handed Machen a decision loss.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 17 Feb 2008, 18:56

I think Patterson did pretty good against Maxim.

I find that fight an interesting meeting of styles. Maxim had that clever
30's-40s smart boxer skill set.

Where as Patterson with his what must have seemed revolutionary back tghen with his 'Wiley' peek a boo combination style. It just looked cool to watch them both.

This for me is one of those fights I wish I had in colour and HD :)

In a way I feel that Patterson made up his 'avoiding' Machen by beating him when he did after he lost the title.

Kym

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 17 Feb 2008, 19:32

granberry wrote:
I Feel Fine wrote:When I say "destroy" I just mean that he blasted Maxim with hard shots in every round and seemed to stagger him in nearly every round of the fight.
In your imagination.

D'Amato tried to avoid having Patterson fight smart, well-schooled boxers after that.

That's why he wouldn't let Patterson fight his top contenders, Machen and Folley--resulting in the stinking up of all of boxing.

Patterson "destroyed" Maxim,

"blasted Maxim with hard shots in every round"

"seemed to stagger him in nearly every round of the fight"

only in your dreams.

Maxim is the only fighter to beat Floyd Patterson and Sugar Ray Robinson.

I am tempted to think Gran is having a lend of us here, because the statement that Maxim beat Patterson is ludicrously ignorant. Then again, if Maxim is one of Gran's, "boys" ala Young, he can do no wrong.

Any way you slice it, nobody who watched Patterson-Maxim could score for the latter. & nobody did, at the time, either. Try again, RAPID.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 17 Feb 2008, 19:47

As I said i have only a 6 round version of the fight and I had it for Patterson, but I am a blatant Patterson fan.

From all accounts in the two rounds I missed it would seem that Patterson was the winner.

Robberies happen in our great sport.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 18 Feb 2008, 00:27

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 18 Feb 2008, 00:47

Robinson wrote:I think Patterson did pretty good against Maxim.

I find that fight an interesting meeting of styles. Maxim had that clever
30's-40s smart boxer skill set.

Where as Patterson with his what must have seemed revolutionary back tghen with his 'Wiley' peek a boo combination style. It just looked cool to watch them both.

This for me is one of those fights I wish I had in colour and HD :)

In a way I feel that Patterson made up his 'avoiding' Machen by beating him when he did after he lost the title.

Kym

Maxim had too much experience for Patterson at that point in Patterson's career.

The fight was limited to eight rounds because of Patterson's age.

The 8 round distance was a joke to a fighter like Maxim, who had fought Jersey Joe Walcott three times (winning one) without getting stopped, fought Ezzard Charles several times, including a 15-round decision loss for the heavyweight title, beaten Bob Satterfield and Jimmy Bivins,

and had just finished fighting three 15-round title fights with Archie Moore.

The novice 8-round distance was a snap for Maxim, who didn't do anything for one round against his young opponent, and then schooled Patterson in what it was like to deal with a hugely experienced pro who was physically strong, had a great chin, and very skilled.

Bad choice of an opponent by Cus D'Amato.
.
.
What D'Amoto did in keeping Patterson's two top contenders (Folley and Machen) from getting their chance at the title when they were in their primes, was a crime.

Harold Johnson Vs Floyd Patterson 1957

Harold Johnson Vs Floyd Patterson 1957

Re: Harold Johnson Vs Floyd Patterson 1957