Fights That You Suspect Ended In The Loser Taking A Dive?

[harrygreb]

well if it makes no sense to you all i can do is wish you the best and leave it at that.
please, one day go visit the sense of humour store and when you see one for gods sakes buy it. and a cheap one wont last. so buy something thats gonna last a few years. jeeeeeezzzzuuuus

[dagosd2000]

I want to clear up my comment about how the cards were stacked against Carmen that night even though he was un aware he couldn't win.

His corner told him to box with Saxton. They knew if the fight went the distance Saxton would get the decision . The judges got more than their share that night. Netro is off the hook,the gamblers are happy,but Carmen is pissed off. Basilio didn't like losing the title that way. Just about everybody at ringside including the sportswriters had Carmen winning by a wide margin.

Basilio didn't like the strategy in the first fight,but it really didn't matter in the next two boughts with Saxton. They were on the up and up. Carmen forced the action and handled Saxton pretty easy.

I heard Basilio talking on an ESPN tribute to Ray Robinson. I think he put it together after he retired that DeJohn and Netro were making some deals that Carmen didn't know about.

[Evander]

James Toney v Anthony Hembrick 2

[pete]

he was known as "the man with no name" 8) 8) 8)

I wish you'd get to the point. A man with no name makes no sense to me.
I'd like to keep it in boxing so that's why I'm not going to go any further with this nonsense.

My aunt,her son(my cousin),and my uncle have been asked to contribute to various histories of organized crime in Chicago. Last year David Crichley used me for some information on a book he's writing about organized crime.

"Wicked City",by Curt Johnson(prefaced by Roger Ebert) will give you the goods on Diamond Joe. Another excellant source is "Double Cross",by Chuck Giancana.

Back to the thread. Carmen Basilio wasn't in on it. He had too much class.
But he wasn't supposed to win when he fought Johnny Saxton ifor the welter title the first time.Johnny De John and Al Netro hung around the wise guys and always had gambling debts . I think Carmen looks back on those two and realizes they weren't on the level with him. By the way the fight was in Chicago.

Can't remember what was mentioned about Esposito in it but Double Cross is one of the most horse shit filled books in the history of the world.

[dagosd2000]

he was known as "the man with no name" 8) 8) 8)

I wish you'd get to the point. A man with no name makes no sense to me.
I'd like to keep it in boxing so that's why I'm not going to go any further with this nonsense.

My aunt,her son(my cousin),and my uncle have been asked to contribute to various histories of organized crime in Chicago. Last year David Crichley used me for some information on a book he's writing about organized crime.

"Wicked City",by Curt Johnson(prefaced by Roger Ebert) will give you the goods on Diamond Joe. Another excellant source is "Double Cross",by Chuck Giancana.

Back to the thread. Carmen Basilio wasn't in on it. He had too much class.
But he wasn't supposed to win when he fought Johnny Saxton ifor the welter title the first time.Johnny De John and Al Netro hung around the wise guys and always had gambling debts . I think Carmen looks back on those two and realizes they weren't on the level with him. By the way the fight was in Chicago.

Can't remember what was mentioned about Esposito in it but Double Cross is one of the most horse shit filled books in the history of the world.

You're entitled to your opinion,but I don't think much of people who call something "horse shit" and leave it at that. They're telling me they can't back up what they say with anything constructive but a bunch of name calling. I've never taken anyone serious who has all this bravado behind a computer

[pete]

Don't know what you're so uppity about.Joe Esposito was a famous Chicago mobster,I never disputed that,but that book is a crock and if you are as familiar with Chicago mob history as you claim to be you would admit that.

[dagosd2000]

Don't know what you're so uppity about.Joe Esposito was a famous Chicago mobster,I never disputed that,but that book is a crock and if you are as familiar with Chicago mob history as you claim to be you would admit that.

All right Pete,this is what the reaction was when Giancana's nephew wrote that book. Everybody was very upset with him. My father, I thought was going to murder him. The things Chuck Giancana had to say about Kennedy and Monroe caused a big stir. Talking about stuff like that was inappropiate. You can't prove it because the sources are discussing that kind of stuff with you. And they don't go to lawyers and get those things notarized. It's all in personal conversation.

My father denied those things happened,but he wouldn't tell me the truth about that any way. The things about my grandfather are true. The things Chuckie said about his uncle ordering a hit on Kennedy are untrue. The mob would never have the nerve to do something like that or their world would be snuffed out in a heart beat.

That doesn't say that they aren't used to do "jobs" by people in higher positions. My father worked under Sam Giancana in Chicago and then our family moved to California in 1957. This is a fact:Sam Giancana,Chuck Nicoletti,and Johnny Roselli were involved in some way with Kennedy's death. In what capacity,I don't know the details. My father ran with these guys in Chicago. Giancana's nephew said Nicoletti was one of the shooters. That's not true. I don't know who was ,but it wasn't him. This is true: Kennedy and his brother went after the "Outfit". They hated his guts.

In 1975(I think it was 1975) Giancana,Nicoletti,and Roselli were supoenaed to testify on The House Committee on Assasinations (Kennedy and King) All three were murdered before they could testify,and believe me they were going to roll over. They were all facing prison for crimes they committed in their pasts. The government never tried to investigate their murders. If my father had stayed in Chicago he might have been killed too.

[pete]

PM me dagosd2000,we'll discuss it.

[cannonball]

NOT SURE IF BRUCE SELDONS SHAMEFUL CAPITULATION AGAINST TYSON WAS A DIVE OR HE WAS JUST SHIT SCARED. EITHER WAY, IT STANK TO ME.......

[klompton]

Levinsky-Carpentier.

Levinsky showed up fat and out of shape and was blasted out in four one sided rounds of a bout that everyone screamed fix in. Now keep in mind that all Levinsky had to do to retain his title was to fight a defensive fight and avoid a KO, two things he was very good at whether he stank a joint out or not. Not to mention he was a very durable SOB. Now, Carpentier comes to the USA with almost zero credibility after a disasterous exhibition tour the previous summer and in order to set himself up as a legit contender for Dempsey in what everyone knew would be a massive financial bonanza he needed an impressive win. So along comes Levinsky who hadnt been making a whole lot of money by resting on his title and flops to Carpentier, not only giving Carpentier a KO win over a name opponent but also the championship and a shot at Dempsey. Cash registers started going off all over creation. Only problem was just about ever sportswriter (who wasnt being paid off by Rickard or Kearns) and several well placed officials (no less than the commissioner in New Jersey) called the fight a fix. The whole things stinks to me and always has.

[granberry]

Georgie Benton did more than 'suspect' his fighter was taking a dive

and walked out of the ring and out of the arena after the 7th round

of the second Ali-Spinks "fight."

[Goodnight, Irene]

Georgie Benton did more than 'suspect' his fighter was taking a dive

and walked out of the ring and out of the arena after the 7th round

of the second Ali-Spinks "fight."

Actually, that's a long-held misconception. Benton never walked out during the fight.

[granberry]

Georgie Benton did more than 'suspect' his fighter was taking a dive

and walked out of the ring and out of the arena after the 7th round

of the second Ali-Spinks "fight."

Actually, that's a long-held misconception. Benton never walked out during the fight.

Benton walked out after the 7th round.

He told me how he tried to get a cab outside the arena, but that the cabbies were waiting for big fares from groups of people after the fight
and refused to take him.

He told me how he walked all the way back to the hotel on foot.

irene is a definite misconception from the time she started to exist.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Georgie Benton did more than 'suspect' his fighter was taking a dive

and walked out of the ring and out of the arena after the 7th round

of the second Ali-Spinks "fight."

Actually, that's a long-held misconception. Benton never walked out during the fight.

Benton walked out after the 7th round.

He told me how he tried to get a cab outside the arena, but that the cabbies were waiting for big fares from groups of people after the fight
and refused to take him.

He told me how he walked all the way back to the hotel on foot.

irene is a definite misconception from the time she started to exist.

Nope, it NEVER happened. Ever. MYTH.

Granberry thinks that because he spoke to the person, & they confirmed the story, then it really happened.

I do not care that the STONE-COLD FACTS stand in the way of my point.

Benton NEVER walked out of the arena. It is written.

You feeling my point now, Gran?

[granberry]

irene is an abortion who contaminates boxrec.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Never mind REALITY!

Benton never walked out. Ever.

ONLY those with a clueless agenda circulate this lie.

[granberry]

irene is an abortion who contaminates boxrec.

[Seamus]

Nobody had complete control of the Chicago underworld till the early 40's when Accardo and Ricca gained a monopoly. When Al Capone went to jail in May of 1932 he wasen't even close to controlling all of Chicago. He was by far the biggest player, but Roger Touhy was still knocking off Capone's men on a fairly regular basis. The last of the independents got violently downsized in the late 30's.

[tonyevs]

Liston v Clay/Ali

[Elton John]

Mcgovern-Gans is one of the most famous fixes as well as the Lamotta-Fox fix made famous by the movie. The most famous fix in the last few decades obviously is the Leonard-Hagler superfight. Leonard was a fine athlete and a swell looking chap but who are we kidding, he's no fighter.

[Collins2000]

Mcgovern-Gans is one of the most famous fixes as well as the Lamotta-Fox fix made famous by the movie. The most famous fix in the last few decades obviously is the Leonard-Hagler superfight. Leonard was a fine athlete and a swell looking chap but who are we kidding, he's no fighter.

Certainly not when compared to the immortal Terry Norris.

[Klee Gluckman]

the Liston fights are fishy. Lison quit after sharing the honours with Ali over the first six rounds. The second fight is just bizzare, Liston beat the count and then the time keeper comes to the ring and the ref calls it of. If the Liston heard the ref reach 8 or 9 and wanted to continue he should have.

Its always possible that the mob and/or the nation of islam had arrangements on the side. I think that the fight should of continued when Liston got up. For whats its worth Ali would of beaten Liston we now know what a boxer Ali became that was not known at this time.

[I Feel Fine]

There's just no reason to suspect the first fight. As I said earlier, Liston did not hit Ali the way you would hit an opponent if you had no intention of beating them. If it had been Patterson in the ring with Liston, and not Ali, and Liston had hit Patterson as hard as he hit Ali, the fight would have been over quickly, as Liston and Patterson's other fights were. Liston fought the way Liston always fought, and threw punches with the same force behind them as in all of his other fights. And, once again, if Liston showed himself to be such a bad actor in the second fight how was he able to be so convincing the first time around? Did he lost his acting ability over the course of that year?

[granberry]

There's just no reason to suspect the first fight. . . .

Liston fought the way Liston always fought

Yep.

And the Atlantic Ocean is made out of grapefruit juice.
.

[I Feel Fine]

It is in your world.