Hey guys who ranked fighter in the past.
I know the Ring has always had its regular rankings and these days
we have the ABC groups rank fighters according to agenda and so on.
But who did it in the old days ? say pre 1950s.
Who determines who challenged a Dempsey, Johnson, Jefferies and so on.
Thanks again
kym
Ranking fighters in the past
the ring magazine has been around since the 1920s. not sure when they started their rankings but i'm sure it was close to the start of the mag. the new york state athletic commission started in 1920 and the national boxing association (now the WBA) started in 1921. They would sanction fights and i'm assuming had rankings at that time. before that time the national police gazette would name the champions that were recognized by the fans and the media. hope this answers some of the question.
I believe Ring started ranking fighters as early as the 'mid-20s' and Boxing News (Britain), announced in 1938-39 the "New Ladder plan" for ranking fighters and the rules attached to such achievements; I.E 'who fights who' and how long between title fights to be affored a champion and so on.
It reads absolutely fair with NOBODY missing out on oppportunity in accordance with their rating and merit, 'unfortunately' the good-old-boys that ran the sport paid no attention to the rules and the Boxing Board let them away with it.
Boxing never really changes does, Protected champions, overlooked Top Contenders and great fighters messed about before they even get near the top!
It reads absolutely fair with NOBODY missing out on oppportunity in accordance with their rating and merit, 'unfortunately' the good-old-boys that ran the sport paid no attention to the rules and the Boxing Board let them away with it.
Boxing never really changes does, Protected champions, overlooked Top Contenders and great fighters messed about before they even get near the top!
forgot to add,
prior to Rankings, fighters used to "Enhance their reputation" by defeating local and more noted fighters further a field. And of course with each passing victory their Managers & Backers would spread the pedigree of their lads and challenge more Top noted fighters and champions, Local & National press would pick up and report on worthy vitories and up-coming promising boys.
Very nostalgic and alluring feel to the world of Prizefighting!
prior to Rankings, fighters used to "Enhance their reputation" by defeating local and more noted fighters further a field. And of course with each passing victory their Managers & Backers would spread the pedigree of their lads and challenge more Top noted fighters and champions, Local & National press would pick up and report on worthy vitories and up-coming promising boys.
Very nostalgic and alluring feel to the world of Prizefighting!
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Though RING magazine always states that it is the Bible of Boxing, I still think there has never been a more powerful historical boxing 'rag sheet' than that of the Police Gazette and it's head writer Richard Kyle Fox, and this can be proven no better than in the career of John L. Sullivan, as Jake Kilrain, Charlie Mitchell and New Zealand heavyweight Herbert Slade, among others, got their fights with Sullivan due to that very magazine's power over the sport...it was very influencial and it truly shaped the image of the heavyweight championship of that time.
It is a small wonder, though, that the Police Gazette never tried even once to goad a Sullivan-Jackson or Sullivan-Mace encounter, though it is fact that when Sullivan went to Europe he did in fact try to get a fight with Mace, only to defend his world title claim against Charlie Mitchell in France.
It is a small wonder, though, that the Police Gazette never tried even once to goad a Sullivan-Jackson or Sullivan-Mace encounter, though it is fact that when Sullivan went to Europe he did in fact try to get a fight with Mace, only to defend his world title claim against Charlie Mitchell in France.
...after the first louis/walcott fight the police gazzette declared walcott as the world champion and gave him a championship belt. this annoyed fleischer considerably.
the first ratings in ring magazine were done by tex rickard. after a time fleischer thought rickard was okay on the heavyweights but didn't know much about the lighter divisions so he took on the ratings himself.
the first ratings in ring magazine were done by tex rickard. after a time fleischer thought rickard was okay on the heavyweights but didn't know much about the lighter divisions so he took on the ratings himself.
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Ambling Alp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3627
- Joined: 15 Jul 2005, 22:31
Just wanted to add to what Jaclem said. Rickard did the ratings the first few years. The very first year was 1924.
Rickard died in January of 1929. After that, Jack Dempsey did the ratings for awhile, though I'm not sure for exactly how long. They originally just had ratings on an annual basis. The previous year's ratings usually come out early in the year. I'm not sure when Ring first came out with the monthly ratings; maybe Jaclem or barry or someone else knows.
Of course the ratings aren't perfect; but they are certainly more reliable than the WBA,WBC, IBF etc.
Rickard died in January of 1929. After that, Jack Dempsey did the ratings for awhile, though I'm not sure for exactly how long. They originally just had ratings on an annual basis. The previous year's ratings usually come out early in the year. I'm not sure when Ring first came out with the monthly ratings; maybe Jaclem or barry or someone else knows.
Of course the ratings aren't perfect; but they are certainly more reliable than the WBA,WBC, IBF etc.
Last edited by Ambling Alp on 18 Feb 2008, 00:31, edited 1 time in total.
..thanks alp for the additional information.
for years the ring magazine ratings were the ones that had the most prestige. when a fighter's status was written about, it always said "rated no.-------by ring magazine."
one of the statements often made about how great jimmy bivins was is the fact that at one time he was simulataneously rated number one in both the light heavy and heavyweight ranks "by ring magazine"
not perfect, not always without some bias by members of the ring staff who had their own agendas and influence, but much better than anything since.
for years the ring magazine ratings were the ones that had the most prestige. when a fighter's status was written about, it always said "rated no.-------by ring magazine."
one of the statements often made about how great jimmy bivins was is the fact that at one time he was simulataneously rated number one in both the light heavy and heavyweight ranks "by ring magazine"
not perfect, not always without some bias by members of the ring staff who had their own agendas and influence, but much better than anything since.
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Nat Flesicher...lol...after the first louis/walcott fight the police gazzette declared walcott as the world champion and gave him a championship belt. this annoyed fleischer considerably
Anyways, hell I would agree with the Police Gazette that Walcott was the true champion, because everyone knew that Louis lost that fight; but being the gentleman that he was, Louis gave Walcott a return bout. Nonetheless, its fights like that, that I think gave the Gazette an edge over RING magazine, as they were a bit of a nut hugger organziation, and still is to this day, whining and bitching about this and that, but always stand by their so-called champions.
re
If your local library has access to the Pro Quest database then you can get every issue of the Police Gazette from it's inception up until around 1906 I think. I ordered the microfilm for the years 1895 thru 1902 back several years ago and printed out most all of the boxing articles, which was a ton and I have around 3,000, or 4,000 Police Gazette clips that I saved from the Pro Quest site before they took away the ability for individual people to get a subscription, so now you'll have to get access through a library, college or some historical society.
I have always been a big fan of Police Gazette, Mirror of Life and Boxing World, Spirit of the Times and other old sporting rags, but the start of Boxing/Boxing News in the UK back in 1909 was probably more important that The Ring to boxing history...it's hard to believe that it is still being published...almost 100 years of history in those pages!
I've always loved Ring, especially the issues between 1922 and around 1958. They started their ratings in 1925 and for a number of years the rating of fighters was done by one individual, so a lot of the early ratings was the opinion of one person. Jack Dempsey did a lot of monthly ratings and of course Fleischer picked up some time.
I've also always enjoyed the 1950s Boxing and Wrestling, which was one of the very first mags that Stanley Weston started after leaving Ring. But overall, boxing history has a ton of old magazines, boxing newspapers and other boxing rags that hold the history of the sport. I've been working on a very thorough index to all boxing magazines and other boxing rags that have been published throughout history and it was really surprising finding out the total number of different organizations that put out a boxing rag...I don't know the total number of different titles that I have found so far, but it well up in the 100s! What I find most interesting is all the various oversea's titles!
I have always been a big fan of Police Gazette, Mirror of Life and Boxing World, Spirit of the Times and other old sporting rags, but the start of Boxing/Boxing News in the UK back in 1909 was probably more important that The Ring to boxing history...it's hard to believe that it is still being published...almost 100 years of history in those pages!
I've always loved Ring, especially the issues between 1922 and around 1958. They started their ratings in 1925 and for a number of years the rating of fighters was done by one individual, so a lot of the early ratings was the opinion of one person. Jack Dempsey did a lot of monthly ratings and of course Fleischer picked up some time.
I've also always enjoyed the 1950s Boxing and Wrestling, which was one of the very first mags that Stanley Weston started after leaving Ring. But overall, boxing history has a ton of old magazines, boxing newspapers and other boxing rags that hold the history of the sport. I've been working on a very thorough index to all boxing magazines and other boxing rags that have been published throughout history and it was really surprising finding out the total number of different organizations that put out a boxing rag...I don't know the total number of different titles that I have found so far, but it well up in the 100s! What I find most interesting is all the various oversea's titles!