For those who have seen Harold Johnson - Ezzard Charles

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 14 Feb 2008, 08:22

Who deserved the decision?

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 14 Feb 2008, 20:48

Haven't seen it but I've heard in more than one place that it was a hometown robbery. Who knows. I'd also be curious to hear from anyone who has seen the fight.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 15 Feb 2008, 15:16

..i've never seen it......it was the only fight i ever heard ezzard call a hometown decision. i think i recall from reading the sports account in the newspaper that charles was knocked down. any confirmation?

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 15 Feb 2008, 15:17

..i've never seen it......it was the only fight i ever heard ezzard call a hometown decision. i think i recall from reading the sports account in the newspaper that charles was knocked down. any confirmation?

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 15 Feb 2008, 15:25

..i am so curious about this fight that i seem to have asked about it twice.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 15 Feb 2008, 17:47

The film is easily available.

Johnson (very young) never looked better.

His counter punches seemed to start almost before your punch began.
And every one was a KO punch.

Johnson was cut in the first round, which looked bad for him, but it didn't deter him.

Johnson hurt Charles a number of times with both right hand and left hook counters. Don Dunphy mentioned each time Johnson had Charles hurt. You could tell from Charles' reaction, immediately grabbing and holding on for a bit.

Charles was bigger than Johnson, much more experienced.

I think that was Johnson's best fight, along with his decision later over Eddie Machen ( who was number one/two heavyweight contender at the time and outweighed Johnson in basic bone structure by a good 20 pounds).

In comparison with Johnson, Charles was not as sharp in this fight. He may have underestimated Johnson, thinking Johnson was smaller and fairly young.

In the 2nd to last round Johnson touched a knee (bounced off it and back up) after a Charles punch. Dunphy said he thought it should have been called a knockdown but it wasn't.

Johnson's jab was a nightmare to face, and any punch you threw at him he was lying in wait with a vicious counter.

It is interesting that less than a year after losing this fight to Johnson, Charles gave Marciano a hard 15 round fight for the heavyweight title.

It is also interesting that less than a year after Johnson beat Archie Moore thoroughly for most of their title fight and knocked Moore flat on his face in the 10th round before Moore saved his title with a 14th round stoppage (with more than a little help from referee Ruby Goldstein),
Moore went on to give Marciano a good fight.

I would recommend getting this film to anyone interested in the highest level boxing.

Two of the best fighters in the same ring at the same time I have ever seen.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 15 Feb 2008, 19:06

granberry wrote:The film is easily available.

Johnson (very young) never looked better.

His counter punches seemed to start almost before your punch began.
And every one was a KO punch.

Johnson was cut in the first round, which looked bad for him, but it didn't deter him.

Johnson hurt Charles a number of times with both right hand and left hook counters. Don Dunphy mentioned each time Johnson had Charles hurt. You could tell from Charles' reaction, immediately grabbing and holding on for a bit.

Charles was bigger than Johnson, much more experienced.

I think that was Johnson's best fight, along with his decision later over Eddie Machen ( who was number one/two heavyweight contender at the time and outweighed Johnson in basic bone structure by a good 20 pounds).

In comparison with Johnson, Charles was not as sharp in this fight. He may have underestimated Johnson, thinking Johnson was smaller and fairly young.

In the 2nd to last round Johnson touched a knee (bounced off it and back up) after a Charles punch. Dunphy said he thought it should have been called a knockdown but it wasn't.

Johnson's jab was a nightmare to face, and any punch you threw at him he was lying in wait with a vicious counter.

It is interesting that less than a year after losing this fight to Johnson, Charles gave Marciano a hard 15 round fight for the heavyweight title.

It is also interesting that less than a year after Johnson beat Archie Moore thoroughly for most of their title fight and knocked Moore flat on his face in the 10th round before Moore saved his title with a 14th round stoppage (with more than a little help from referee Ruby Goldstein),
Moore went on to give Marciano a good fight.

I would recommend getting this film to anyone interested in the highest level boxing.

Two of the best fighters in the same ring at the same time I have ever seen.

gran......Goldstein called that stoppage EXACTLY correctly....any more and your man would have been permanently damaged. Is that what you wanted for Harold? To be permanently injured?

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 15 Feb 2008, 19:22

BoxBuzz wrote:
granberry wrote:The film is easily available.

Johnson (very young) never looked better.

His counter punches seemed to start almost before your punch began.
And every one was a KO punch.

Johnson was cut in the first round, which looked bad for him, but it didn't deter him.

Johnson hurt Charles a number of times with both right hand and left hook counters. Don Dunphy mentioned each time Johnson had Charles hurt. You could tell from Charles' reaction, immediately grabbing and holding on for a bit.

Charles was bigger than Johnson, much more experienced.

I think that was Johnson's best fight, along with his decision later over Eddie Machen ( who was number one/two heavyweight contender at the time and outweighed Johnson in basic bone structure by a good 20 pounds).

In comparison with Johnson, Charles was not as sharp in this fight. He may have underestimated Johnson, thinking Johnson was smaller and fairly young.

In the 2nd to last round Johnson touched a knee (bounced off it and back up) after a Charles punch. Dunphy said he thought it should have been called a knockdown but it wasn't.

Johnson's jab was a nightmare to face, and any punch you threw at him he was lying in wait with a vicious counter.

It is interesting that less than a year after losing this fight to Johnson, Charles gave Marciano a hard 15 round fight for the heavyweight title.

It is also interesting that less than a year after Johnson beat Archie Moore thoroughly for most of their title fight and knocked Moore flat on his face in the 10th round before Moore saved his title with a 14th round stoppage (with more than a little help from referee Ruby Goldstein),
Moore went on to give Marciano a good fight.

I would recommend getting this film to anyone interested in the highest level boxing.

Two of the best fighters in the same ring at the same time I have ever seen.
gran......Goldstein called that stoppage EXACTLY correctly....any more and your man would have been permanently damaged. Is that what you wanted for Harold? To be permanently injured?

You mean like Goldstein handled the knockdown in the 10th round where he gave Moore standing counts after he was already up as if it was a non title fight,

enabling Moore to get away without Johnson being able to get off another punch at him before the bell rang.

Rocky Marciano is the commentator on the tape I have.

Of course Marciano doesn't know as much about boxing as buzz, but when the ref pulled that to save Moore's neck in the 10th round,

Marciano said, "Ooooh, the ref just cost Johnson a LOT of money."

If you had just been knocked flat on your face as Moore was there, you wouldn't want Harold Johnson coming at you to finish you off while you were still shakey.

Goldstein made sure that didn't happen.

It doesn't get any rawer than that.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 15 Feb 2008, 19:56

granberry wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:
granberry wrote:The film is easily available.

Johnson (very young) never looked better.

His counter punches seemed to start almost before your punch began.
And every one was a KO punch.

Johnson was cut in the first round, which looked bad for him, but it didn't deter him.

Johnson hurt Charles a number of times with both right hand and left hook counters. Don Dunphy mentioned each time Johnson had Charles hurt. You could tell from Charles' reaction, immediately grabbing and holding on for a bit.

Charles was bigger than Johnson, much more experienced.

I think that was Johnson's best fight, along with his decision later over Eddie Machen ( who was number one/two heavyweight contender at the time and outweighed Johnson in basic bone structure by a good 20 pounds).

In comparison with Johnson, Charles was not as sharp in this fight. He may have underestimated Johnson, thinking Johnson was smaller and fairly young.

In the 2nd to last round Johnson touched a knee (bounced off it and back up) after a Charles punch. Dunphy said he thought it should have been called a knockdown but it wasn't.

Johnson's jab was a nightmare to face, and any punch you threw at him he was lying in wait with a vicious counter.

It is interesting that less than a year after losing this fight to Johnson, Charles gave Marciano a hard 15 round fight for the heavyweight title.

It is also interesting that less than a year after Johnson beat Archie Moore thoroughly for most of their title fight and knocked Moore flat on his face in the 10th round before Moore saved his title with a 14th round stoppage (with more than a little help from referee Ruby Goldstein),
Moore went on to give Marciano a good fight.

I would recommend getting this film to anyone interested in the highest level boxing.

Two of the best fighters in the same ring at the same time I have ever seen.
gran......Goldstein called that stoppage EXACTLY correctly....any more and your man would have been permanently damaged. Is that what you wanted for Harold? To be permanently injured?
Marciano doesn't know as much about boxing as buzz,

well thanks gran, but you really do give me too much credit. I'm just here to help.

Lausse · Post by **Lausse** » 15 Feb 2008, 21:06

I scored the fight 6-4 in favour of Johnson, although some of the rounds were close so I can see how someone might score it for Ezzard.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 15 Feb 2008, 23:22

..i was certain that cranberry had seen this fight and i was going to ask his opinion but the beat me to it. he is a great admirer of johnson (as i am) but he also thinks highly of charles so i think he'd give an unbiased account, though if the rounds were close he might lean toward harold. whatever, i would love to see this one.

terry d has shrewd comments on charles at this point. i did see the coley wallace fight and at that time ezzard was planting his feet more, and working inside more. as he got later in his career he worked much more inside than from outside.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 16 Feb 2008, 11:37

granberry wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:
granberry wrote:The film is easily available.

Johnson (very young) never looked better.

His counter punches seemed to start almost before your punch began.
And every one was a KO punch.

Johnson was cut in the first round, which looked bad for him, but it didn't deter him.

Johnson hurt Charles a number of times with both right hand and left hook counters. Don Dunphy mentioned each time Johnson had Charles hurt. You could tell from Charles' reaction, immediately grabbing and holding on for a bit.

Charles was bigger than Johnson, much more experienced.

I think that was Johnson's best fight, along with his decision later over Eddie Machen ( who was number one/two heavyweight contender at the time and outweighed Johnson in basic bone structure by a good 20 pounds).

In comparison with Johnson, Charles was not as sharp in this fight. He may have underestimated Johnson, thinking Johnson was smaller and fairly young.

In the 2nd to last round Johnson touched a knee (bounced off it and back up) after a Charles punch. Dunphy said he thought it should have been called a knockdown but it wasn't.

Johnson's jab was a nightmare to face, and any punch you threw at him he was lying in wait with a vicious counter.

It is interesting that less than a year after losing this fight to Johnson, Charles gave Marciano a hard 15 round fight for the heavyweight title.

It is also interesting that less than a year after Johnson beat Archie Moore thoroughly for most of their title fight and knocked Moore flat on his face in the 10th round before Moore saved his title with a 14th round stoppage (with more than a little help from referee Ruby Goldstein),
Moore went on to give Marciano a good fight.

I would recommend getting this film to anyone interested in the highest level boxing.

Two of the best fighters in the same ring at the same time I have ever seen.
gran......Goldstein called that stoppage EXACTLY correctly....any more and your man would have been permanently damaged. Is that what you wanted for Harold? To be permanently injured?
You mean like Goldstein handled the knockdown in the 10th round where he gave Moore standing counts after he was already up as if it was a non title fight,

enabling Moore to get away without Johnson being able to get off another punch at him before the bell rang.

Rocky Marciano is the commentator on the tape I have.

Of course Marciano doesn't know as much about boxing as buzz, but when the ref pulled that to save Moore's neck in the 10th round,

Marciano said, "Ooooh, the ref just cost Johnson a LOT of money."

If you had just been knocked flat on your face as Moore was there, you wouldn't want Harold Johnson coming at you to finish you off while you were still shakey.

Goldstein made sure that didn't happen.

It doesn't get any rawer than that.

The referee did his job well doing right by both men. Both highly skilled, both remarkable fighters. One fighter won the fight, the other walked away second best in a fairly refereed two man contest.

Period. End of story.

I'm sure if you reflect on this carefully even you will come to agree with me on this. Take your time, think about it in a fair and balanced manner.
I think you'll find I've got this one right.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 16 Feb 2008, 14:19

BoxBuzz wrote:
granberry wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote: gran......Goldstein called that stoppage EXACTLY correctly....any more and your man would have been permanently damaged. Is that what you wanted for Harold? To be permanently injured?
You mean like Goldstein handled the knockdown in the 10th round where he gave Moore standing counts after he was already up as if it was a non title fight,

enabling Moore to get away without Johnson being able to get off another punch at him before the bell rang.

Rocky Marciano is the commentator on the tape I have.

Of course Marciano doesn't know as much about boxing as buzz, but when the ref pulled that to save Moore's neck in the 10th round,

Marciano said, "Ooooh, the ref just cost Johnson a LOT of money."

If you had just been knocked flat on your face as Moore was there, you wouldn't want Harold Johnson coming at you to finish you off while you were still shakey.

Goldstein made sure that didn't happen.

It doesn't get any rawer than that.
The referee did his job well doing right by both men. Both highly skilled, both remarkable fighters. One fighter won the fight, the other walked away second best in a fairly refereed two man contest.

Period. End of story.

I'm sure if you reflect on this carefully even you will come to agree with me on this. Take your time, think about it in a fair and balanced manner.
I think you'll find I've got this one right.

buzz doesn't have a clue what boxing is.

But that doesn't stop him from jabbering.

.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 16 Feb 2008, 15:48

For our purposes I'm going with number 1. Now if you have been talking about 2, 3, or 4 all this time, then I apologize for not making myself clear in our past discussions.

1. the act, technique, or profession of fighting with the fists, with or without boxing gloves.

2. the material used to make boxes or casings.
3. a boxlike enclosure; casing.
4. an act or instance of putting into or furnishing with a box.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 16 Feb 2008, 15:51

BoxBuzz wrote:For our purposes I'm going with number 1. Now if you have been talking about 2, 3, or 4 all this time, then I apologize for not making myself clear in our past discussions.

1. the act, technique, or profession of fighting with the fists, with or without boxing gloves.

2. the material used to make boxes or casings.
3. a boxlike enclosure; casing.
4. an act or instance of putting into or furnishing with a box.

USELESS

and

CLUELESS

would be more to the point.
.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 16 Feb 2008, 16:58

Cmon gran. Lighten up, I'm just expressing my opinion, minding my own business. How about if I were to start complaining about your floor mopping techniques? I bet you'd get your feelings hurt.

I happen to think the fight was well officiated....you don't. We move on, we don't need to have a pissing contest about every difference of opinion do we?

The reason I mention this is that I don't want you to start saying a bunch of nice things about me if we happen to agree. The next thing you would want to do is give me a hug....and I'm not the affectionate sort.

Check the passions at the door and just bring your good sense to the discussion. Agree, disagree, it's all the same to me.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Feb 2008, 05:58

Granberry, many thanks for the input.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 24 Feb 2008, 14:20

I disagree with the comments so far. Charles and Johnson looked spectacular in this fight, both very fluid with incredible boxing skills and ring trickery. Charles won the fight hands down. He outboxed and outhinked johnson and knocked johnson down in round 10. I scored the fight 6 rounds to 3 with 1 even in favor of ezz charles.

Ezzard was robbed in this fight Ill get back to you on my round by round

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 24 Feb 2008, 16:55

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:I disagree with the comments so far. Charles and Johnson looked spectacular in this fight, both very fluid with incredible boxing skills and ring trickery. Charles won the fight hands down. He outboxed and outhinked johnson and knocked johnson down in round 10. I scored the fight 6 rounds to 3 with 1 even in favor of ezz charles.

Ezzard was robbed in this fight Ill get back to you on my round by round

BB, look forward to it...

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 24 Feb 2008, 18:11

One of the best boxing matches I have ever seen. For those that think charles may have been badly physically deteriorated by 1953, you may think again after watching this fight. Charles looked as smooth and slippery as butter, and showed tremendous expereince to outrick the youth. Make no mistake about it, Johnson is also one of the greatest fundamental boxers we have ever seen.

Round 1 EVEN

Round 2 Charles

Round 3 Charles

Round 4 Charles

Round 5 johnson

Round 6 johnson

Round 7 Charles

Round 8 Johnson

Round 9 Charles

Round 10 Charles- johnson knocked kdown from fast sharp right hand

my total ezzard charles 6-3-1 in rounds

I believe ezzard was robbed

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 24 Feb 2008, 18:19

How many times did commentator Don Dunphy mention Charles was hurt?

Each time by a single Harold Johnson counter.