television boxing "facts" that are bullshit.

pringle · Post by **pringle** » 27 Jan 2004, 08:41

i was watching "somebody up there likes me" which is the bio of rocky graziano's life. at one point his manager or someone was bragging; "6 fights, 6 k.o.'s" i checked out boxrec and graziano had 3 K0's then a 4 rd draw with godfry howell immediately followed by a 6 rd loss to charles ferguson. typical, more bullshit:

-a short piece on max schmelling on the history channel was telling about max schmelling upsetting the seemingly unbeatable heavyweight CHAMPION joe lewis with a 12 rd ko. true joe was undefeated until then, but he was an unbeaten CONTENDER until max whupped him. it seems like they should run their "facts" past a few boxing fans so as to weed out the bullshit.

-another one was a tv story that talked about larry holmes k.o.ing earnie shavers in their first match and koing him again in a title defense.......anybody with the slightest knowledge of shavers, larry or boxing history knows holmes DECISIONED shavers in their first fight.

there are more that i can't remember now, but it seems that these fricken boxing documentories have boners all the time as they get their facts mixed up.

THE DANCING MASTER · Post by **THE DANCING MASTER** » 27 Jan 2004, 13:07

Some years back Unsolved Mysteries with the late Robert Stack did a segment on the death of Sonny Liston in which they made it appear that Liston was on the comeback and in line for another title shot and was murdered because he wouldn't throw the Wepner fight.

Nonsense. Liston's career had been in the tank since the second Ali fight and he had been kayoed by Leotis Martin before the Wepner fight. Was Liston murdered? Possibly. We will never know, but if he was it wasn't for not tanking against Wepner.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 27 Jan 2004, 15:59

THE DANCING MASTER wrote:Some years back Unsolved Mysteries with the late Robert Stack did a segment on the death of Sonny Liston in which they made it appear that Liston was on the comeback and in line for another title shot and was murdered because he wouldn't throw the Wepner fight.

Nonsense. Liston's career had been in the tank since the second Ali fight and he had been kayoed by Leotis Martin before the Wepner fight. Was Liston murdered? Possibly. We will never know, but if he was it wasn't for not tanking against Wepner.

Liston was top 10 at the time of the Wepner fight.

He could have entered the WBA elimination series.

Even at his advanced age he would have made things interesting.

sweetsci · Post by **sweetsci** » 27 Jan 2004, 18:57

There was an episode of Law & Order with a character who "fought" Max Schmeling in 1937. The character said something to the effect of "kicking that Nazi's behind."

It's bad enough that the writers pick on the still-living ex-champ as a loser in a fake fight, but to call him a Nazi when he wasn't... Very low blow. Why couldn't they have used Max Baer and called him a "Clown" or something?

crooked nose · Post by **crooked nose** » 27 Jan 2004, 23:43

Facts are always a problem when Hollywood gets hold of a story. Some things are embellished, some dropped. "The Hurricane" is a recent example. In real life, no one felt Carter had been robbed in his title shot, but the movie went overboard to make it look that way. I couldn't understand why they did that. It didn't add to the story's drama.
And about the Graziano bio "Somebody Up There Likes Me". Tony Zale smacked the snot out of Rocky two out of three, but do they make a movie about him? No, gotta make the movie about the New York media darling.

Alister · Post by **Alister** » 28 Jan 2004, 06:43

In the movie about Ruben Carter's life, "Hurricane", Hollywwod would want us to believe that Carter was robbed in his fight with Joey Giardello, which is of course bullshit. The decision was never a dispute at the time, Giardello winning the fight something like 10-5 in rounds (the whole fight used to be available for download at http://www.joeygiardello.com for eveyone to see).

Also, we are served with the impression that Carter was a top contender at the time he was sentenced. In reality, he was 7-7-1 in his last 15 fights, and not even in the top 10. In reality, he was in fact no more than a washed-up former title challenger and contender at the time he went to jail. Nothing more. That the WBC awarded him a belt in 1994 was no more than a publicity stunt on their part. He was never a championship calibre fighter.

Alister

turn2stone · Post by **turn2stone** » 28 Jan 2004, 11:02

Saw Carter speak last year. Very uplifting. It was at a University, so absolutely NO questions from the crowd were about boxing. More along the lines of feelings, racism, etc etc. (and as an outsider, i was afraid to ask a tough boxing questions. I was front row and carter looked in great shape ! and I was afraid of the crowd at this love-in

However, Carter made no mention of movie descrepancies or lies. To the boxing outsider (which was 99 percent of the crowd) he was the number 1 contender and future champ at the time of incarceration. He was pleased with Denzel Washington portraying him though.

THE DANCING MASTER · Post by **THE DANCING MASTER** » 28 Jan 2004, 17:13

Ruben Carter wrote a book called The 16th Round in which he pleaded his case. Then Bob Dylan really got the ball rolling for Carter on his Desire album in 1975 with a cut called Hurricane. Although Desire is one of Dylan's better albums, I still won't listen to the Hurricane track. Muhammad Ali later jumped on the Carter bandwagon and there was even a concert to raise money for him at Madison Square Garden with Dylan, Joan Baez, and Ali as MC.

There are many people who still believe Carter was guilty including Joni Mitchell who worked with Dylan on that tour. She even went so far as to call Carter "a jive ass who probably did it."

As much as I admire Washington's work, I would not see the movie for reasons Alister and others have already stated. :x

crooked nose · Post by **crooked nose** » 29 Jan 2004, 01:48

I'm inclined to believe Carter was railroaded, which makes the falsehoods in the movie even more disturbing. No need to embellish the facts. As has been mentioned, he was not the #1 contender or anything like it at the time of his arrest. Why make it appear so? Also, the movie left out details that point to Carter's innocence. For example, he was interrogated the night of the shooting but released. Then, months later while in Argentina for a bout, he was informed he was wanted for further questioning. He could have stayed out of the country, but feeling he had nothing to hide, he returned. The arrest and 22-year ordeal followed.

pringle · Post by **pringle** » 29 Jan 2004, 07:00

i've seen rubin carter interviewed on tv and the guy really knows how ot give a positive impression. i thought that the guy really seemed centered and to the point. it wasn't much later rubin was in trouble with the law again. once a criminal, always a criminal, he's nothing but a slick con man. i'm never going to believe anything he has to say. isn't he back in the can for some other shit now anyway?

turn2stone · Post by **turn2stone** » 29 Jan 2004, 11:21

No...don't think so.
Just saw him in the background as support during a media scrum a few weeks back. Can't for the life of me think of who it was he was there for. Actually it's starting to come back....sort of. It may have been for a wrongly convicted person here in Canada who was released and was going before the media. He was there though, I do remember that.

crooked nose · Post by **crooked nose** » 29 Jan 2004, 12:18

I haven't heard of Carter being in any trouble since his release. I guess he'll always be tainted in the eyes of some. He doesn't have to prove his innocence. However "slick" he might seem, I still trust him more than the crowd who kept him behind bars half his life. This thread is about "bullshit", and believe me there's no greater bulshit than the case that was brought against Carter. C'mon, the star witnesses against him were two guys who were burglarizing a nearby factory when they heard the shooting. When they went to the bar to see what happened, they saw the carnage and decided it would be a good idea to empty the cash register. Then as the years went by they changed their stories more than they changed their drawers.
Rubin Carter does 22 years, and Don King is a free man. Don't you love irony?

FreeIkemefula · Post by **FreeIkemefula** » 29 Jan 2004, 18:29

Here is one that is loosely boxing related which you guys might find intresting. Robin Givens (who incidently critically injured an 89 yearold pedestrian today) never attended Harvard Medical School. It never happened. It is often repeated on TV, but there is no record of Robin Givens attending HMS. I have read this in several sources, including a column by Jack Newfield.