Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

With regards to Art Hafey, Frank pretty much summed it up. He was very, very tough, a solid hitter, had a huge heart, and, on the right night proved he could upset an all-time great, who wasn't in the best of condition.

In an era of Lopez, Chacon, Arguello, etc. Art was a tough opponent, that was about it. A lot is made of his upsetting an out of shape Olivares, however, what happened in the rematch?

-Rick Farris

Rick,you mentioned something about Hafey being brought out to be a set up guy for other fighters. His trainer Burke Emery said the same thing. Burke argued vehemently against Art going down to fight Arguello in Masaya,but George Parnassus would have none of it. Also it was risky to fight Olivares in Monterrey.

[kikibalt]

My wife and I were ringside for those fights, and it was a great nite of boxing, after the fights we went for some drinks, we had two drinks then we went home, in the morning I went out and bought the newspapers, when my wife read that Moore was near death she cried like a baby, said that she would never again go to a fight again, she only seen our sons fight as amateurs, when they turn pro and I would take her with us when they would fight out of town she would stay in the hotel room.

Frank

[kikibalt]

Here's one for Rick or Kiki

I used to watch Windmill White on TV and saw him once at the Coliseum.
Was he really nuts or was it just an act? I saw him flop on the canvas a few times after Jesse Burnett tapped him on the shoulder. He'd leap up at the count of nine and do the same thing over again. The ref got tired of this and stopped the fight. White lets out a scream,jumps out of the ring,and runs out the door. Strange. Also his manager Baron Von Stumme looked a little odd. What was the deal with these guys? Thanks

Dagosd,

I never seen much of White when he was was fighting, when he was going to fight the main I stay home.

[dagosd2000]

My wife and I were ringside for those fights, and it was a great nite of boxing, after the fights we went for some drinks, we had two drinks then we went home, in the morning I went out and bought the newspapers, when my wife read that Moore was near death she cried like a baby, said that she would never again go to a fight again, she only seen our sons fight as amateurs, when they turn pro and I would take her with us when they would fight out of town she would stay in the hotel room.

Frank

Amigo
My mother could never watch me play football,and mi esposa Mexicana could never watch our son play football either. Sounds like you have a beautifull wife. "Que chulada es el maiz prieto!"

[Robert in NYC]

DagoSD2000:

WOuld you tell us some more about Ronnie Wilson-his career is of great interest to me as I interviewed his father in 2002.
Also, do you think that Burke Emery would consent to an interview? Emery must have great stories to tell.
Regards,
Robert

[dagosd2000]

DagoSD2000:

WOuld you tell us some more about Ronnie Wilson-his career is of great interest to me as I interviewed his father in 2002.
Also, do you think that Burke Emery would consent to an interview? Emery must have great stories to tell.
Regards,
Robert

Robert,That's a great suggestion about Burke Emery. I 'm going to talk with him and try to get back with you after the weekend. He does have some great stories and he's more than happy to share them with the guys that come in his bar. Fighting took a toll on him, but he doesn't have a problem getting across. I hope he understands how much he can enlighten us. His long time girlfriend Shirley,I think can assist you.

Ronnie I believe is back in Canada(according to Burke). He wasn't handled very well. He fought way too often and fought guys he had already beaten and didn't need to fight again. After Roger Rouse broke his jaw,his career was up and down. He was very popular in San Diego. After his loss to Mike Quarry,he could never beat a top contender. If he had beaten Quarry,he might have been thrown in with Foster.He drank too much after that and it looked like, to me ,he got down on himself. In public with his wife by his side,they looked like the ideal couple. But as his career sagged,I heard there were some domestic problems and his mood changed. He lost a couple of times to Yaqui Lopez and after that was fighting pre lims. Throughout Ronnie's career he had problems with eye cuts. Compound that with a lack of a powerfull punch,it always seemed like it was an uphill battle. But one thing you could take to the bank with Ronnie---this kid had guts. He took some terrible beatings. Bleeding,coming off the deck,trying to fight back knowing he didn't have a big punch that could turn it around. I remember his last fight. Marcos Geraldo,who's future was stiil bright and going uphill.Geraldo was smashing Ronnie all over the ring. He's bleeding and getting knocked down. His eyes are closed.He can't see. He won't fold. He goes down and we're all screaming at him"Stay down. Stay down." We're crying cause we think he might get killed in there. We're telling the referee to stop it. We were scared. Burke was scared. Ronnie packed it in after that.

Talking to Burke today,he's happy. Maybe a little dreamy. Bring up Ronnie's name,and he's even happier. He knew he had a warrior to be proud of.

I'll work on this for you,Robert. Give me a little time. I want to be sure Burke knows everything will be all right. He's got a lot he can tell us.

Thanks Roger

[Rick Farris]

Dagos . . .

I knew Ray pretty well, and fought on the undercard of his 1971 fight against Roger Rouse, in fact I remember "Windmill" from the beginning of his mid-60'debut at the Olympic.

Like most in L.A., I got my first look at this most unorthodox boxer, when he appeared in a televised prelim. I was watching the fights with my grandfather, and we couldn't believe what we were seeing! This guy would flaps his arms by the side of his body like a bird and then let go of his famed "Rooster" punch, which was both gloves slapping against the side of his confused opponents body, repeatedly. He would then slowly step back, make a face, stick out his toungue and smile at them.

This, of course, would infuriate most boxers, and some would charge after him. Occasionally, he'd catch a solid shot, but if he did, he took it well. Once, I saw him catch a jab from Terry Lee, at the Valley Music Theatre. The punch hit Ray square in the face, he stepped back, and began to rub his nose, a ringsider told me he heard White scream, "OW! That hurts!" He'd make silly faces, usually exagerating his reaction to his opponents offense.

Was "Windmill" White crazy?

Well, I didn't believe the guy was crazy, that is at first. I could see that White was a very awkwardly tough boxer, one that was surprisingly hard to hit, he was able to gauge his distance, somehow appearing to be within the opponents range, but actually, perfectly positioned to make a guy look like a fool.

I thought Ray White was a great showman, and a deceptivly skilled fighter, that could take a punch if hit, and come back to take control.

However, one afternoon at the Main St. Gym, I guess around 1970 or so, Ray "Windmill" White convinced me that he was CRAZY.

One day, Ray White stepped into the ring with Jerry Quarry, for a couple of "light" rounds of sparring. I rarely saw Quarry go light on anybody, having brutalized little brother Mike in the gym on a regular basis for years.

To my surprise, Jerry just moved and jabbed against the lighter White, moving his head, not letting go with the jolting right cross, or lethal left hooks. Jerry was just going to warm up with "Windmill", and I guess Ray either assumed that Jerry's kindness was weakness, or that the "Bellflower Bomber" might have a sense of humor??? Who knows?

Shortly after the start of the second round, Jerry continued to jab & move, occasionally allowing White inside to throw body punches. The moment White stepped inside Quarry, he grabbed Jerry, turned his back, put his arm around Quarry's neck and hit him with a "behind-the-back" punch.

Quarry was furious. He picked up Ray at the waist, and literally tossed him into a corner, as "Windmill" bounced off the turn buckle, Quarry dropped his left shoulder and dug a short hook into the side of Ray's body. I still can hear the thud of the blow. White fell to his knees, holding his side in agony.

Quarry was fuming, he stood over Ray cursing him, daring him to rise. I thought he was going to kick the balding fool as he moaned in pain on the floor. Ray suffered a couple of broken ribs.

A year or so later, Mike Quarry defeats White over ten rounds. Ray wasn't considered a KO puncher, but a few guys I knew said he could crack pretty good. After the fighting White, I asked Mike about Ray's power. Quarry replied, "The only time the co__sucker hurt me, was when he bit me on the neck during a clinch."

I got to know Ray personally in 1969, while I was still amateur. Ray trained a couple of brothers, bantamweights I fought before turning pro. The brothers names were Florentino & Refugio Ramirez.

Ray was a very nice man, and a pain-in-the-ass for opponents to deal with. I had no idea when I first saw"Windmill" White, that the "Clown Prince" of boxing would actually defeat top rated contenders.

-Rick Farris

[granberry]

Rick,

White sounds like Marty Marshall.

There is a film of Marty Marshall fighting Harold Johnson.

The various motions Marshall goes through are amazing and original. He had lots of original athletic ability.

About the 7th round Johnson really flattens poor Marshall with a right hand, and from there it is real agony for Marshall to last to the end.

That one punch took all the fun out of it for Marshall.

[bennie]

Its been 25 Years?!

Yes, 1983. Davila really was one of those hard-luck fighters. He took years to win the title and yet won it under those tragic circumstances. Then, after one successful defence (when he also came from behind to stop Enrique Sanchez in 11 rounds in a rainstorm in Miami), he 'did' his back lifting beer crates in his day job and had to relinquish. Once his back healed, he was too old to beat Happy Lora.

[kikibalt]

Jerry Quarry, Aileen Eaton & Brian London

[kikibalt]

Baron Von Stumme and his fighter Karl Heinz Guder.

[kikibalt]

Lauro Salas

[kikibalt]

Lauro Salas and wife Angelina
Day after winning the title from Jimmy Carter

[kikibalt]

Ruben Castillo

[kikibalt]

Willie Pep vs Gil Cadilli-l

[Rick Farris]

Frank and fellow contributers . . .

Thanks once again, amigo. These photos are AWESOME. The funny thing is that I have seen quite a few before, but years ago, when they were first taken. You post so many that I haven't seen, but most feature L.A. ring personalities that I grew up with, or around.

Such a great gift you have provided for us, especially me! You have truly inspired me to try and take this info into some sort of publication, and , without question, a film.

As I think you know, Dan Hanley and myself have partnered with a couple of hot film makers whom, I work with in the film industry. We have already started archiving interviews with past greats, current personalties, etc. relating to boxing. However, lots of boxing shows are very generic, and as was pointed out in an earlier post . . .[[[/i]the same old thing, Ali, Leonard, etc.

Our edge is our West Coast experience and knowledge. Dan and I want to tell the REAL story of boxing, as it relates to the City of Angeles. This is why I pick your brain, as I did Hap Navarro, and all those old gym guys at the Main St. Gym, like Johnny Flores, Duke Holloway, Tony Marino, Teo Serrano, Memo & Larry Soto, Howie. Yeah, even grumpy old Steindler would tell some tales. I didn't spend a lot of time in Howie's office, unless I had business there, but I stood by quietly and listened carefully to the stories.

I do the same when I was being managed by Suey Welch, and he'd take me to Parnassus office, or Mickey Davies office at the ELKS Club, when he was matchmaking for Parnassus, before Don Fraser came in. There would be guys like Bolanos, Salas, Lou Nova, Mushy Callahan, Jimmy McLarnin, Mike MAzurki, the old wrestler/actor, Mae West was a friend of Suey's, as was a lot of major names. There were old gangsters. Life around these guys was like something out of an old Bogart movie.

I wasn't a great fighter, but I met some of the best ever and I was a quiet kid who just shut up and listened. Today, I'm not so quiet, and I'd like to tell this very fascinating story, about a very exciting time time and place in boxing history.

We are going to do it guys, not maye. It's going to take a little time to do it right, but Dan and I will not settle for aything less than the truth. We don't just want to share the "facts" of an era, but the "feeling".

Forums such as this, with such brilliant boxing afficianados that post here, well, it's what you guys are sharing here that will make up much of what we produce. And don't think we won't credit those who have helped educate us.

Thank you Frank . . . and thanks to all who make this thread possible. You men are AWESOME, each and everyone of you who post here.

Your words and stories are being heard, and one day may help round out the true history of Los Angeles boxing.

Adios, tu amigo . . .

Rick Farris

[kikibalt]

We need a photo of Duke Holloway here, I have one from the 1950's, I'll see if I can fine it and post it here.

[kikibalt]

"The Duke'
Duke Holloway and Golden Glove fighter George Clemem...1954

[kikibalt]

Vince Delgado, outstanding SoCal referee
What many people don't know is that Delgado was also an outstanding pro boxer before going to Korea to help fight the war, when he came back two years later to box again he was not the same fighter, btw he is a nephew of that SoCal great fighter, Carlos Chavez.

[bennie]

Jerry Quarry, Aileen Eaton & Brian London

If ever a photo tells you who the better fighter is, this is the one. If ever a photo tells you who the smarter man is, this is also the one. London has all his money and all his marbles. Jerry...

[kikibalt]

[suprmc1]

Blank Post

[suprmc1]

These are some really great pictures. My dad just passed away 9 months ago, but fought at the Olympic several times back in the late 60's. His name was Tim McCown and went by the name Mac. His trainer was Zorro Folley. He fought out of Seaside in Longbeach also did a little work out of Main St. as well. Funny thing is I'm a building inspector and ran into Danny "Little Red" Lopez out on a job site at the University of California at Irvine. He was a complete gentleman and was happy to take a few minutes out of his day to talk to me. He even signed a pair of gloves for my son which are now hung above his bed. Do you know of anywhere where we can find old photos from fights at the Olympic?

[kikibalt]

These are some really great pictures. My dad just passed away 9 months ago, but fought at the Olympic several times back in the late 60's. His name was Tim McCown and went by the name Mac. His trainer was Zorro Folley. He fought out of Seaside in Longbeach also did a little work out of Main St. as well. Funny thing is I'm a building inspector and ran into Danny "Little Red" Lopez out on a job site at the University of California at Irvine. He was a complete gentleman and was happy to take a few minutes out of his day to talk to me. He even signed a pair of gloves for my son which are now hung above his bed. Do you know of anywhere where we can find old photos from fights at the Olympic?

How old, and who're you looking for.

[Rick Farris]

From the late 60's on, The Olympic Aud. house photographer was Theo Ehret. Theo owns all the rights to the photos but shares them with the public.

It's ironic you mention this, about your dad, and your search for pictures. I'm on the Board of Directors for the World Boxing Hall of Fame. I have just this week nominated Theo to be on this years ballot for WBHOF induction. Dan Hanley and I spoke of this for sometime, and now I must contact Theo once it's confirmed he'll be on the ballot.

Theo Ehret never tooted his own horn, or attempted to promote his work, but man, is he a MASTER. Theo is basicly forgotten or unknown by most today. However, he was a master photographer whose work in Boxing Illustrated revealed he best of Olympic Auditorium and L.A. boxing in general during the late 60's thru 70's.

When I contact Theo, I will mention your father's name, and maybe he has something? Were you interested in other boxer's photos, as well?

Theo would likely sell you a disk with the fighters you request, however, I don't know what his price would be. Bfore I give out contact info. on Theo, I must ask his permission. However, theo is a very kind man, and I'm sure he'd accomodate you

-Rick Farris