Patterson also being smaller, and his style being as it is. Came straight into Liston. This really made Listons night all that easier.
Ali on the other hand, ran and fought as such.
Liston it seemed struggled at chasing a man.
I feel strongly that the rematch had to be worked. The first fight, I dont know. But I have been on the same card in MMA when fights were worked, and you would be suprised how legit these can appear.
Kym
Fights That You Suspect Ended In The Loser Taking A Dive?
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I Feel Fine
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If someone could address the two points I raised I'll accept the notion that there can be "suspicion" about the first fight:
a) Why did Liston hit Ali with punches that would have knocked out Patterson? Keeping in mind that this was not the Ali who had fought Frazier and Foreman, this was a time where people thought that if Ali had a weakness it would probably be his chin.
b) Why was Liston, who put on the worst acting job in the history of American sports in the second fight, capable of of putting on a good acting job the first time? Wouldn't he have been a little more convincing the second time if he had that acting ability? The second fight shows what Liston's idea was of how a fighter should go about throwing a fight; don't throw hard punches and go down on the first punch.
Unless someone can address those two points, then in my mind people are just letting the second fight cloud their judgement in regards to the first fight.
a) Why did Liston hit Ali with punches that would have knocked out Patterson? Keeping in mind that this was not the Ali who had fought Frazier and Foreman, this was a time where people thought that if Ali had a weakness it would probably be his chin.
b) Why was Liston, who put on the worst acting job in the history of American sports in the second fight, capable of of putting on a good acting job the first time? Wouldn't he have been a little more convincing the second time if he had that acting ability? The second fight shows what Liston's idea was of how a fighter should go about throwing a fight; don't throw hard punches and go down on the first punch.
Unless someone can address those two points, then in my mind people are just letting the second fight cloud their judgement in regards to the first fight.
As mentioned earlier, Watson v Benn always looked a little funny to me. The punch that KO'd Benn wasen't very hard, especially not for a guy who withstood numerous shots from McClellan.
I re-watched W Klitschko v Brewster I the other day and that fight is downright freaky. Wlad is giving Brewster a real beating and then out of nowhere he's collapsing from exhaustion. He didn't look that hurt, instead he looked like a guy with a cardio vascular condition who just tried to run up a few flights of stairs.
I re-watched W Klitschko v Brewster I the other day and that fight is downright freaky. Wlad is giving Brewster a real beating and then out of nowhere he's collapsing from exhaustion. He didn't look that hurt, instead he looked like a guy with a cardio vascular condition who just tried to run up a few flights of stairs.
Oh & what about Tony Pubbs's KO by 1 loss to Idaho's Jimmy Ellis back in the early '90s? That one's always seemed a bit suspicious to me.
Not that I've ever actually seen it. Which is part of the problem.
Back then, Tubbs was still a "name fighter" & still scoring decent wins over decent opponents. But then, all of a sudden this KO by 1 loss to the mediocre Ellis just shows up in the recoord books with no fanfare at all. Infact, it wasn't really written about in the magazines or brought up in the commentary of his later televised fights. All of which just seemed pretty mysterious & shady to me. Considering the magnitude of the upset. Especially with Ellis coming off of a L10 to a 1-9-1 fighter in Joe Brewer.
That first round KO loss to Ellis in Ellis's hometown of Boise seems more like one of those "losses" that a name wrestler occasionally suffers to a local guy while out on tour rather than a legit loss. Maybe someone who's seen it can correct this perception for me though?
Not that I've ever actually seen it. Which is part of the problem.
Back then, Tubbs was still a "name fighter" & still scoring decent wins over decent opponents. But then, all of a sudden this KO by 1 loss to the mediocre Ellis just shows up in the recoord books with no fanfare at all. Infact, it wasn't really written about in the magazines or brought up in the commentary of his later televised fights. All of which just seemed pretty mysterious & shady to me. Considering the magnitude of the upset. Especially with Ellis coming off of a L10 to a 1-9-1 fighter in Joe Brewer.
That first round KO loss to Ellis in Ellis's hometown of Boise seems more like one of those "losses" that a name wrestler occasionally suffers to a local guy while out on tour rather than a legit loss. Maybe someone who's seen it can correct this perception for me though?
I knew Tony Longo. Who fought Pep.joe kurtz wrote:What about the supposedly infamous Willie Pep - Lulu Perez fight?
I've heard from several folks over the years that that one was supposed to have been less than legit. Can anyone confirm or dispute this?
He told me about for his fight with Pep it was arranged that he would score a knockdown against Pep.
He started going around his neighborhood bragging about that.
Then the word got back to him that Pep wasn't happy about his broadcasting that.
Longo said to me, "You know, I really wouldn't want Pep angry at me."
The fight took place, but without the knockdown.
Longo said French fighter Ray Famechon was one of the best fighters he fought. "He was great at the finish." Meaning great stamina.
Longo had the largest head in proportion to his body of any human being I have ever seen.
I swear his head measured three feet from top down to bottom of chin.
(And I am hardly exaggerating).
granberry wrote:I knew Tony Longo. Who fought Pep.joe kurtz wrote:What about the supposedly infamous Willie Pep - Lulu Perez fight?
I've heard from several folks over the years that that one was supposed to have been less than legit. Can anyone confirm or dispute this?
He told me about for his fight with Pep it was arranged that he would score a knockdown against Pep.
He started going around his neighborhood bragging about that.
Then the word got back to him that Pep wasn't happy about his broadcasting that.
Longo said to me, "You know, I really wouldn't want Pep angry at me."
The fight took place, but without the knockdown.
Longo said French fighter Ray Famechon was one of the best fighters he fought. "He was great at the finish." Meaning great stamina.
Longo had the largest head in proportion to his body of any human being I have ever seen.
I swear his head measured three feet from top down to bottom of chin.
(And I am hardly exaggerating).
Lol, there was a featherweight in Wales in the 80's called Peter Harris who would give him a run for his money, he also had a huge mullet haircut to boot and looked like a 6 5" man's head put on the body of a midget.
Please stop that, Flump.Flump wrote:granberry wrote:I knew Tony Longo. Who fought Pep.joe kurtz wrote:What about the supposedly infamous Willie Pep - Lulu Perez fight?
I've heard from several folks over the years that that one was supposed to have been less than legit. Can anyone confirm or dispute this?
He told me about for his fight with Pep it was arranged that he would score a knockdown against Pep.
He started going around his neighborhood bragging about that.
Then the word got back to him that Pep wasn't happy about his broadcasting that.
Longo said to me, "You know, I really wouldn't want Pep angry at me."
The fight took place, but without the knockdown.
Longo said French fighter Ray Famechon was one of the best fighters he fought. "He was great at the finish." Meaning great stamina.
Longo had the largest head in proportion to his body of any human being I have ever seen.
I swear his head measured three feet from top down to bottom of chin.
(And I am hardly exaggerating).
Lol, there was a featherweight in Wales in the 80's called Peter Harris who would give him a run for his money, he also had a huge mullet haircut to boot and looked like a 6 5" man's head put on the body of a midget.
You are making me laugh so hard my stomach hurts.