Philadelphia Jack O'brien

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 25 Feb 2008, 22:45

he admitted that a vast majority of his wins and losses were works and pre determined. Such fights as his two championship bouts against Burns and his fight with Fitzsimmons.

How many other challngers from this era, went down under false circumstances ?

Is there much footage about the place of O'brien ?

Sure boxing in more recent years has had its conspiracies, and controversies. Atleast we can see with our own eyes, via film how realistic a claim is (Ali-Liston II), but in the days where print was how most fans learned of the out come of a fight....just how legitimate are some of the victories of our sports great men ?

After all its not like we can say YouTube Sullivan or Burns and co's defences.

Thanks again guys

Kym

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 25 Feb 2008, 23:24

Robinson wrote:he admitted that a vast majority of his wins and losses were works and pre determined. Such fights as his two championship bouts against Burns and his fight with Fitzsimmons.

Kym

GARBAGE.

You are lucky he isn't around today to sue the pants off you

or kick you around the block.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 25 Feb 2008, 23:28

Well according to the books I have read, he admitted to these claims in print...as opposed to admitting such a thing in passing or in general conversation.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 26 Feb 2008, 03:21

The only time I knew of any fight fixing was in the last Burns bout that he had. Supposedly it was brought up for Burns to let the fight go the distance, and Burns agreed, only to tell the betters that all bets were off when O'Brien showed up (as he hardly prepared for the contest) and he told O'Brien he was in for the beating of his life. Was a classic double cross, but an intelligent one at that.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 26 Feb 2008, 03:25

Robinson wrote:Well according to the books I have read, he admitted to these claims in print...as opposed to admitting such a thing in passing or in general conversation.

Books by Thomas Hauser, & Ken Burns, no doubt.

How could you, Robinson?

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 26 Feb 2008, 04:42

The book that made the claime was "The World Encyclopedia of Boxing" by Harry Mullan and I believe I have reference to it in another couple of books that I shall find.

This is like High School having to reference my sources :P

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 26 Feb 2008, 04:45

Gran? Break out your, "To Kill" list.

Flip to, "M." You're looking for Mullan, Harry. Any luck?

Now we await with baited breath, Sugar man ;)

donnellon · Post by **donnellon** » 26 Feb 2008, 05:38

O'Brien made that claim, sure eneough. I'll try and find the oriiginal appearance in print.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 26 Feb 2008, 17:59

Thank you for that.

donnellon · Post by **donnellon** » 26 Feb 2008, 18:57

The claims are articulated in detail in several Californian papers of May 1907. The Oakland Tribune May 22 lists the claimed fake fights in a long article by T.P.Magilligan while The San Francisco Call of the 23rd states that "He confirms what has been known for some time that a number of his fights have been prearranged".
I'm not arguing the merits of O'Brien's claim but there is NO DOUBT that he made these claims in a signed confession. The signed confession appeared in the Evening Bulletin May 22. Intesesting GARBAGE Kym?

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 26 Feb 2008, 19:14

Thanks for that

pretty interesting and doe snot do much for the sport legitimacy in that part of history.

I never said it was garbage, however.

Thanks again

Kym

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 26 Feb 2008, 20:34

Robinson wrote:The book that made the claime was "The World Encyclopedia of Boxing" by Harry Mullan and I believe I have reference to it in another couple of books that I shall find.

This is like High School having to reference my sources :P

"Just look carefully, I only want you to look carefully. Do not repeat the lies of liars. Do not become like them. Please, make sure of what you say and do not play such a role."

donnellon · Post by **donnellon** » 27 Feb 2008, 05:37

"I never said it was garbage, however."
Kyn
I know you didn't!

barry · Post by **barry** » 27 Feb 2008, 08:00

It's odd...granny thinks the O'Brien claims of "fake" are garbage, but he upholds and caresses the claim that the Gans-McGovern bout was a "fake." I guess the cornerman who told granny everything he knows must have left that part of boxing out!

I think it's pretty obvious that he doesn't really know of that which he speaks and it is put on terrific display in his response here! Look for his pal collins to jump in at any minute...oh wait a minute...he already did!!

Surely all of the claims of "fake" are the fault of not only Hauser and Burns, but also Bert Sugar, but most of the blame must be laid at the feet of Muhammad Ali...right granny and colly?

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 27 Feb 2008, 11:23

A while back someone made an interesting comment about fake fights.
It was something like : "There are many more fake fights than the public knows about. However, most of the fights that people claim to be fakes aren't fakes."

That is probably true.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 27 Feb 2008, 12:36

barry wrote:It's odd...granny thinks the O'Brien claims of "fake" are garbage, but he upholds and caresses the claim that the Gans-McGovern bout was a "fake." I guess the cornerman who told granny everything he knows must have left that part of boxing out!

I think it's pretty obvious that he doesn't really know of that which he speaks and it is put on terrific display in his response here! Look for his pal collins to jump in at any minute...oh wait a minute...he already did!!

Surely all of the claims of "fake" are the fault of not only Hauser and Burns, but also Bert Sugar, but most of the blame must be laid at the feet of Muhammad Ali...right granny and colly?

Poor Barry thinks Gans fought hard to win against McGovern.

That tells all anyone needs to know about "boxing historian" Barry's level of competence when it comes to boxing.

Noodling through old newspaper microfilms WITH NO ABILITY TO DISCRIMINATE is what makes Barry and his ilk such a walking joke.

When are Barry and his fellow noodlers going to have another convention and give each other awards?

LOL

Woller · Post by **Woller** » 27 Feb 2008, 12:55

What is he saying???

Søren

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 27 Feb 2008, 15:57

barry wrote:It's odd...granny thinks the O'Brien claims of "fake" are garbage, but he upholds and caresses the claim that the Gans-McGovern bout was a "fake." I guess the cornerman who told granny everything he knows must have left that part of boxing out!

I think it's pretty obvious that he doesn't really know of that which he speaks and it is put on terrific display in his response here! Look for his pal collins to jump in at any minute...oh wait a minute...he already did!!

Surely all of the claims of "fake" are the fault of not only Hauser and Burns, but also Bert Sugar, but most of the blame must be laid at the feet of Muhammad Ali...right granny and colly?

Hi Baz. Thanks for mentioning me. What's mom making you for dinner tonight?

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 27 Feb 2008, 18:12

Granberry

"LOL" is like so late 1990s.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 27 Feb 2008, 19:16

Robinson wrote:Granberry

"LOL" is like so late 1990s.

It's okay, I don't think Gran is really laughing. It's more like one of those Microsoft narrators that speak English, but deliver it in a flat-dead, indentation-less monotone.

I don't think our Gran knows what laughter actually is.

Philadelphia Jack O'brien

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