Marciano v. Tyson

[BoxBuzz]

What was I thinking? I just watched Tyson - Smith.....Tyson was just way too good for any of those "little old" champs like Marciano. Or any of the guys Marciano beat like Charles, Walcott, Louis, Moore.

I mean just watch Prime Tyson devour ol' BoneCrusher.

So I guess the question is how would ol' Bones do against that same group?

[ringsider]

What was I thinking? I just watched Tyson - Smith.....Tyson was just way too good for any of those "little old" champs like Marciano. Or any of the guys Marciano beat like Charles, Walcott, Louis, Moore.

I mean just watch Prime Tyson devour ol' BoneCrusher.

So I guess the question is how would ol' Bones do against that same group?

This isn't about the other " little old" champs. This is about Tyson fighting Marciano. A 185 lb guy. Tyson would eat him up. Too big, too strong, too quick, and a great finisher. Now if Marciano was 220 or so and taller well then I would concede.......

[The Great John L]

So I guess the question is how would ol' Bones do against that same group?

BC would KTFO all of them, probably inside of 2 rounds. He was a monster.

[BoxBuzz]

So I guess the question is how would ol' Bones do against that same group?

BC would KTFO all of them, probably inside of 2 rounds. He was a monster.

probably so....probably so.

[HomicideHenry]

The thing is Marciano wasnt 185 pounds naturally. He trained down to that condition, as he naturally was around 220 pounds in weight. It is ironic that had Marciano fought more around his own weight, that he probably wouldn't have been as effective as he was at 185.

What did other opponents who were bigger than Marciano say about him? Well, the great Joe Louis said, "It hurt just to even bump into him."

Marciano was solid, and with his constant charges uphill around Tower hill in Brockton, Massechusetts to build up his leg power, he came at his opponents like a football player damn near, an uneducated pair of shoulders came ramming in, when Marciano felt like bulling his man.

I dont think it's a matter of size, that genuinely matters in this fight. While Tyson was 215 or so, he really wasnt that much taller than The Rock, as he was only 5'11" [though if you notice it seems throughout the years Mike went from 5'8" to 5'11", which one is he exactly?]

Speed and defense is what makes up this fight. Tyson, at his peak, was almost untouchable as he was trained more on defensive ability, constantly blocking, slipping, bobbing, weaving, parrying shots; while Marciano more or less blocked his opponents blows with his arms, gloves and when bobbing and weaving.

The only thing that makes me wonder is, considering as how Marciano in his fights generally dictated the pace [he averaged 80-85-100 punches a round] is to how long Mike would have kept up with a work rate like that?

Speed + defense + Toughness + Power = Tyson has it in spades

Conditioning + Work Rate + Toughness + Power + Heart & Determination= Marciano edges just a bit

I think Mike wasn't ever quite tested in his best years, and it can be argued he was either that damn good to ever be tested or it can be stated obviously that the opposition Mike was up against was rather ordinary...I think against a Marciano, Dempsey or Frazier he would have failed; he might dominate the first few stanzas, but he would eventually crack.

[elmersalsa]

Tyson would blow the raaaassss claaaat out of Rocky Marciano....too big.

[The Great John L]

Speed and defense is what makes up this fight. Tyson, at his peak, was almost untouchable as he was trained more on defensive ability, constantly blocking, slipping, bobbing, weaving, parrying shots; while Marciano more or less blocked his opponents blows with his arms, gloves and when bobbing and weaving.

Tyson was hardly "almost untouchable". He was a decent defensive fighter, but in many of his fights he was quite susceptible to right hands, it's just that usually he ended the fights early enough that it didn't matter. Or else his opponents went into a survival mode and just didn't throw much in return.

And I'm not quite sure where this notion that he was constantly bobbing and weaving in his fights came from. He had good head movement, but he never had the constant motion that, for example, a prime Frazier had, especially after the first 3-4 rounds of a fight.

[elmersalsa]

What was I thinking? I just watched Tyson - Smith.....Tyson was just way too good for any of those "little old" champs like Marciano. Or any of the guys Marciano beat like Charles, Walcott, Louis, Moore.

I mean just watch Prime Tyson devour ol' BoneCrusher.

So I guess the question is how would ol' Bones do against that same group?

Tyson vs Bonecrusher Smith was NOT EVEN A FIGHT, BUT A SLOW JAM DANCE.

[HomicideHenry]

Tyson was hardly "almost untouchable". He was a decent defensive fighter, but in many of his fights he was quite susceptible to right hands, it's just that usually he ended the fights early enough that it didn't matter. Or else his opponents went into a survival mode and just didn't throw much in return.

And I'm not quite sure where this notion that he was constantly bobbing and weaving in his fights came from. He had good head movement, but he never had the constant motion that, for example, a prime Frazier had, especially after the first 3-4 rounds of a fight.

Take the Reggie Gross fight Tyson had before facing Boyd and Frazier, as Gross threw a volley of combinations, rights and lefts, and while the crowd ate it up, what people failed to realize is when you really take a look at that attack on Tyson, Gross didn't even land a single solid effective punch in that assault.

Tyson's defense is better than most give credit for these days.

[The Great John L]

Tyson was hardly "almost untouchable". He was a decent defensive fighter, but in many of his fights he was quite susceptible to right hands, it's just that usually he ended the fights early enough that it didn't matter. Or else his opponents went into a survival mode and just didn't throw much in return.

And I'm not quite sure where this notion that he was constantly bobbing and weaving in his fights came from. He had good head movement, but he never had the constant motion that, for example, a prime Frazier had, especially after the first 3-4 rounds of a fight.

Take the Reggie Gross fight Tyson had before facing Boyd and Frazier, as Gross threw a volley of combinations, rights and lefts, and while the crowd ate it up, what people failed to realize is when you really take a look at that attack on Tyson, Gross didn't even land a single solid effective punch in that assault.

Tyson's defense is better than most give credit for these days.

Take a look at the Jameson fight and you’ll see Tyson dominate the fight but get hit pretty consistently with rights from the dreadful Jameson, who did not go into a shell. Tillis also landed pretty consistently, although he wasn;t very busy in a typical Tillis performance. There are plenty of other examples as well.

I’m not saying his defense was bad, but saying that he was “almost untouchable” is bordering on ridiculous. And I don’t recall a single fight of his beyond 5 rounds where he exhibited consistent head movement that could be considered bobbing and weaving. In most fights he became very stationary after a few rounds, and that was true throughout his career.

He was a great fighter, but not super human as some seem to imply.

[BoxBuzz]

What was I thinking? I just watched Tyson - Smith.....Tyson was just way too good for any of those "little old" champs like Marciano. Or any of the guys Marciano beat like Charles, Walcott, Louis, Moore.

I mean just watch Prime Tyson devour ol' BoneCrusher.

So I guess the question is how would ol' Bones do against that same group?

Tyson vs Bonecrusher Smith was NOT EVEN A FIGHT, BUT A SLOW JAM DANCE.

Yeah but Tyson was in that slow jam dance........so...you don't think Tyson could whup Marciano after all?

you don't have to answer....

[HomicideHenry]

Just for fun BoxBuzz you should generate the numbers of 1,000 computer simulations in a prime-prime scenario between Marciano and Tyson, to see who the computer thinks would get the greater numbers/percentages.

[Robinson]

There is a difference between being scared and respecting some ones strengths ie punching power, speed etc.

[Robinson]

The trouble with the sim games I have found, is that they do not take height, weight and reach into consideration at all.

Not that height or reach are factors in this match up.

[dempseyfire]

Tyson was hardly "almost untouchable". He was a decent defensive fighter, but in many of his fights he was quite susceptible to right hands, it's just that usually he ended the fights early enough that it didn't matter. Or else his opponents went into a survival mode and just didn't throw much in return.

And I'm not quite sure where this notion that he was constantly bobbing and weaving in his fights came from. He had good head movement, but he never had the constant motion that, for example, a prime Frazier had, especially after the first 3-4 rounds of a fight.

Take the Reggie Gross fight Tyson had before facing Boyd and Frazier, as Gross threw a volley of combinations, rights and lefts, and while the crowd ate it up, what people failed to realize is when you really take a look at that attack on Tyson, Gross didn't even land a single solid effective punch in that assault.

Tyson's defense is better than most give credit for these days.

Take a look at the Jameson fight and you’ll see Tyson dominate the fight but get hit pretty consistently with rights from the dreadful Jameson, who did not go into a shell. Tillis also landed pretty consistently, although he wasn;t very busy in a typical Tillis performance. There are plenty of other examples as well.

I’m not saying his defense was bad, but saying that he was “almost untouchable” is bordering on ridiculous. And I don’t recall a single fight of his beyond 5 rounds where he exhibited consistent head movement that could be considered bobbing and weaving. In most fights he became very stationary after a few rounds, and that was true throughout his career.

He was a great fighter, but not super human as some seem to imply.

Mike's defense looked great vs the motley crue he beat on his way to the title, but against the world class comp (Tubbs, Tucker, Tillis, Bruno etc.) his defense was solid but nothing exemplary.

I think Marciano-Tyson is about an even matchup. My opinion of the Brockton Blockbuster has grown considerably the more I study him in depth. In terms of pure punching power and body strength I don't think Tyson has any real advantage here despite the weight advantage.

[ringsider]

Take the Reggie Gross fight Tyson had before facing Boyd and Frazier, as Gross threw a volley of combinations, rights and lefts, and while the crowd ate it up, what people failed to realize is when you really take a look at that attack on Tyson, Gross didn't even land a single solid effective punch in that assault.

Tyson's defense is better than most give credit for these days.

Take a look at the Jameson fight and you’ll see Tyson dominate the fight but get hit pretty consistently with rights from the dreadful Jameson, who did not go into a shell. Tillis also landed pretty consistently, although he wasn;t very busy in a typical Tillis performance. There are plenty of other examples as well.

I’m not saying his defense was bad, but saying that he was “almost untouchable” is bordering on ridiculous. And I don’t recall a single fight of his beyond 5 rounds where he exhibited consistent head movement that could be considered bobbing and weaving. In most fights he became very stationary after a few rounds, and that was true throughout his career.

He was a great fighter, but not super human as some seem to imply.

Mike's defense looked great vs the motley crue he beat on his way to the title, but against the world class comp (Tubbs, Tucker, Tillis, Bruno etc.) his defense was solid but nothing exemplary.

I think Marciano-Tyson is about an even matchup. My opinion of the Brockton Blockbuster has grown considerably the more I study him in depth. In terms of pure punching power and body strength I don't think Tyson has any real advantage here despite the weight advantage.

This above unbiased opinion is brought to you by a guy with the internet handle of dempseyfire.

[marcianofan]

If we're talking Tyson '88, then this is a HUGE mismatch. Rocky's record was padded throughout the upper levels by fights fixed by the mob, his opponents parents were likely to find themselves propping up overpasses if their sons didn't dive.

The 'Rock' goes down under an avalanche of leather by KO4, assuming Mike doesn't get a visit by Tony Soprano first.

That's rather inflammatory and a series of rather serious accusations. I would hope you have some sort of evidence to back that up, or that you'll withdraw it.

[sockdolager]

I think Tyson had the better movement and agility, early on his defence was exceptional for a 'big' man.

Over 15 rounds I can see Marciano maintaining momentum from round 9 onwards especially, with Tyson burning out. I think he has a good chance at getting a decision.

I do not see him beating a peak Tyson by KO.

I also find it hard to imagine Tyson KOing marciano. I think he has a good chance at putting Marciano on the canvas however. He has that speed, power and size to do this.

This is for me anyhow suprisingly a hard one to call, I think Tyson takes it over 12 rounds or TKO..I do see him opening up a cut on Marciano which a modern Ref or Dr would use to stop the fight.

Marciano - Endurance, Chin, Recovery Ability, Tenacity

Tyson- Exposiveness, Size, Speed, Power, not that bad a chin.


Lets say Tyson uses his jab, head movement and because he is the bigger man, does not have to leap with that hook. I see him doing pretty good in this fight.

Marciano never faced any one like Tyson. Marciano is a unique man himself who had attributes such as heart and desire that define his style.

There is no doubt as to who had the greater heart, but sometimes that is not enough.

Kym

Nice post.

[I Feel Fine]

I'm hardly a Tyson apologist. I think Tyson is the most overrated Heavyweight of all time; even more so than Rocky himself. But I think its quite an assumption to think that Rocky could last six rounds with Mike, considering his huge size advantage and everything else he has. Its not impossible that Rocky lasts through those rounds, but I would favor Mike inside six. If Rocky does survive, then I wouldn't be surprised either way.

[HomicideHenry]

If we're talking Tyson '88, then this is a HUGE mismatch. Rocky's record was padded throughout the upper levels by fights fixed by the mob, his opponents parents were likely to find themselves propping up overpasses if their sons didn't dive.

The 'Rock' goes down under an avalanche of leather by KO4, assuming Mike doesn't get a visit by Tony Soprano first.

TAKE THAT HORSE SHIT BACK! Cus thats exactly what that is! Rocky Marciano, if anything, jumped from the lower level of the division to the upper part. Hell, off the bat damn near, he was thrown in against guys he shouldnt have been able to have beaten, but he blasted them out anyways. Marciano's fights were always on the level, and even though his manager Al Weil had connections to the mob, it is documented that one time that some mobsters came up to Rocky to let it go a certain distance, and Marciano became ENRAGED he was pissed and told them to kiss his ass...what happens after that? Al Weil takes away $10,000 from Marciano's earnings from that fight...wasnt until after the Moore fight The Rock caught wind of this, and retired from boxing, believing that if he retired, Weil had no more control over him, and that someday for the right price he could come back again.

Unless you have SOLID proof of which, mind you there ISNT, then you take back what you said. Marciano's record certainly wasnt padded, and if ANYTHING its Tyson's record that is the most padded and is the greatest example of a man being spoon fed to the title in heavyweight history.

[ringsider]

......Marciano's fights were always on the level, and even though his manager Al Weil had connections to the mob,......

That right there ruins any credibility that your post may have had. Now go back to bed......

[HomicideHenry]

All you have to do is look at the fights ffs, and you can see that his opponents couldnt handle the power. They were running away from him, they were all trying to survive.

What you are saying in short is that everything Marciano did in his career was fake. The kayo of Walcott in the two fights were fake. His win over Louis was fake. The Moore fight was a fake. The Cockell fight, the Charles fights, every fight he had, you are saying was all fake.

I think its just a blatant racist statement, because Marciano was Italian and nothing more. People think boxing Italians and they automatically think of the mob. While we're at it, we might as well state right now that Jake LaMotta was a fake as well [hell the Billy Fox fight was fake, so therefore we might as well say right now all of LaMotta's fights were predetermined and in the tank].

We might as well assume that Carnera's kayo victory over Sharkey was a fake, cus he had mob connections and hell his first 10 or so fights as a professional were rigged anyways.

Stick it up ur ass Ringsider.

[Jaybee From The Castle]

If we're talking Tyson '88, then this is a HUGE mismatch. Rocky's record was padded throughout the upper levels by fights fixed by the mob, his opponents parents were likely to find themselves propping up overpasses if their sons didn't dive.

The 'Rock' goes down under an avalanche of leather by KO4, assuming Mike doesn't get a visit by Tony Soprano first.

TAKE THAT HORSE SHIT BACK! Cus thats exactly what that is! Rocky Marciano, if anything, jumped from the lower level of the division to the upper part. Hell, off the bat damn near, he was thrown in against guys he shouldnt have been able to have beaten, but he blasted them out anyways. Marciano's fights were always on the level, and even though his manager Al Weil had connections to the mob, it is documented that one time that some mobsters came up to Rocky to let it go a certain distance, and Marciano became ENRAGED he was pissed and told them to kiss his ass...what happens after that? Al Weil takes away $10,000 from Marciano's earnings from that fight...wasnt until after the Moore fight The Rock caught wind of this, and retired from boxing, believing that if he retired, Weil had no more control over him, and that someday for the right price he could come back again.

Unless you have SOLID proof of which, mind you there ISNT, then you take back what you said. Marciano's record certainly wasnt padded, and if ANYTHING its Tyson's record that is the most padded and is the greatest example of a man being spoon fed to the title in heavyweight history.

Excuse me...what part of "Marciano was the Mafias BITCH" do you not fvcking understand here?

He was the greatest cash cow they had minus the whole city of Las Vegas. Any fighter that didn't say "Good night" was going to have his parents, or his wife, or even his KIDS body-bagged!

Marciano was at BEST a 'B' grade fighter, Tyson would have decapitated the little piece of shit.

Go put that in your pipe and smoke it. Slowly.

[HomicideHenry]

I think its just a blatant racist statement, because Marciano was Italian and nothing more. People think boxing Italians and they automatically think of the mob. While we're at it, we might as well state right now that Jake LaMotta was a fake as well [hell the Billy Fox fight was fake, so therefore we might as well say right now all of LaMotta's fights were predetermined and in the tank].

We might as well assume that Carnera's kayo victory over Sharkey was a fake, cus he had mob connections and hell his first 10 or so fights as a professional were rigged anyways.

Stick it up ur ass

^^^as I said to Ringsider, my sentiment is the same to you Jaybee

[Jaybee From The Castle]

Sentiment?

If all you have is sentimentality, you should not be a member of a Boxing website. Try Crochet. Much less prone to getting your feelings hurt when your delusions are shattered.