Classic American West Coast Boxing

[kikibalt]

Dagos, you have a real philosophical slant to your writing, amigo. Love the stories. I was a big fan of Kuniaki Shibata. I think everyone saw that flaw in his makeup, namely, his chin. However, when a fighter can overcome or compensate for a blemish in his style, that fighter is worth watching. The big bangers were his boogy-man. Dwight Hawkins, Ben Villaflor, Alfredo Escalera, Clemente Sanchez. Yet, when he would take on bangers like Saldivar, Aredondo and Villaflor (in their first fight), stay on his game for 15 rounds knowing one lapse and he could be gone, and come home with a win, that was saying something. Also, regarding Raul Perez, I was a big fan of Gaby Canizales and was rooting like hell for Gaby to take him out. But Gaby had a very short burn-out time and was finished by the time he took on Perez.

Scartissue[/quote]

ScarD,

Both, diego dude and Rick have a unique style of writing that makes for a very enjoyable reading, I myself can't not take pen in hand and write like these two gabachos (White boys)

[kikibalt]

Bennie!, Bennie! No!,No! try again.

[bennie]

It's a bit before my time, Frankie. Is the white guy at the back Teddy Mann?

[kikibalt]

Bennie,

The gabacho, third from the left on the back, is Roy Hollis, who was the only one that won nat. title that year for L.A.

[bennie]

Did Shields lose to Sugar Ray Leonard? I know he was one of the few amateurs to beat Leonard.

[kikibalt]

Did Shields lose to Sugar Ray Leonard? I know he was one of the few amateurs to beat Leonard.

Yes, he did, and a month later Randy beat Ray in the nat. A.A.U, also in Boston.

[kikibalt]

[kikibalt]

[bennie]

Incidentally, Frankie, why have all you West Coast boys moved over from CBZ?

[dagosd2000]

[quote="dagosd2000
Rick and Frank,It's always interesting to me to follow Mexican boxing legends into obscurity after their careers are over. Rick,you mentioned Moreno and then Saldivar's fast burn out with drugs and alcohol. It sounds strange,but the real macho fighters,the punchers who got punched as much as they punched,I think punch themselves in a way when it's over. That was a big part of it. Punch me,hit me,make me bleed. I can take it. I want to stand there at the end with blood on my face. I am tough. I can take it. I want to live with it. I remember the second fight Napoles had with Armando Muniz. When it was over,they stood there,expressionless,eyes split open,swollen purple welts all over their faces,blood down their faces and on their trunks. Don't wipe the blood away. Let them stand there like that. We watch them. We want to be warriors like them. We envy them. They are beautifull.

Dagos, you have a real philosophical slant to your writing, amigo. Love the stories. I was a big fan of Kuniaki Shibata. I think everyone saw that flaw in his makeup, namely, his chin. However, when a fighter can overcome or compensate for a blemish in his style, that fighter is worth watching. The big bangers were his boogy-man. Dwight Hawkins, Ben Villaflor, Alfredo Escalera, Clemente Sanchez. Yet, when he would take on bangers like Saldivar, Aredondo and Villaflor (in their first fight), stay on his game for 15 rounds knowing one lapse and he could be gone, and come home with a win, that was saying something. Also, regarding Raul Perez, I was a big fan of Gaby Canizales and was rooting like hell for Gaby to take him out. But Gaby had a very short burn-out time and was finished by the time he took on Perez.

Scartissue[/quote]

Thanks to all the fellas who like my writing. I'm sure Rick will agree with me on this: Boxing is a rich venue to see the bittersweet poignancy of life. I remember watching an old episode of "The Odd Couple" on TV. Jack Klugman(Oscar) was showing Tony Randall(Felix) his office. He was showing Felix all the sports pictures on his wall. The athletes. Then Oscar takes Felix over to a corner of his room behind his desk. "Felix",Oscar says,"This place is special. I call it "Pug Corner". Jack Klugman has a big smile highlighted with a touch of sadness. I think the "Odd Couple" had a writer on that show that understood how Rick and myself feel about boxing.

[kikibalt]

Incidentally, Frankie, why have all you West Coast boys moved over from CBZ?

I know nothing

[bennie]

Incidentally, Frankie, why have all you West Coast boys moved over from CBZ?

I know nothing

Understand.

[bennie]

Gilberto Roman was possibly the most underrated fighter of the 1980s. How big was that win over Watanabe!

[scartissue]

Guys

This is the 1973 Los Angeles Nat. G.G. team that I travel to Boston with, I'm not going to put name on the faces, see if you guys can name the fighters

Wow, outside of you and Randy Shields in the top row and Art Frias and Jimmy Lennon in the bottom row, I'm lost.

Scartissue

[granberry]

I saw Shields fight Leonard at the Baltimore Civic Center when they were both young pros. (ed: I just looked at their records, Shields had actually had 36 fights at this point, including against Ranzany and Benitez. While it was Leonards 15th pro fight. Leonard had 10 more fights after this before he fought Benitez).

In this fight Shields came across as tall, good stamina, good chin, not a big offense.
Early in the fight Leonard caught Shields with 5 or 6 circular slaps in close. Shields never allowed him to do that again.
Leonard tried the same thing against Duran in their first fight, planting himself directly in front of Duran as he was about to launch into his circular slap routine. Duran saw Leonard standing directly in front of him and threw his good right hand. It landed with a boom on Leonard's chest. Leonard got the hell out of there and didn't try that again.

In a later round in the Shields-Leonard fight, Leonard hit the referee during a mixup. Leonard then apologized profusely. Boxrec incorrectly says Shields hit the ref.

At that stage Leonard didn't have the punch to hurt Shields, and there was not a whole lot to choose between them. Shields negated most of what Leonard tried to do.

After the fight, the crowd of who came to see the heavily publicized local boy Leonard commented all around me, "Well, he has a long way to go before he'll amount to something" as they were walking out.

[scartissue]

1974 Los Angeles Nat. G.G. team on the way to Denver for the national tournament.

Again, lost. You and Art Frias, but is that Fred 'Young Sanford' Houpe next to you?

Scartissue

[bennie]

The black guy at the front, next to Art Frias, looks a bit like a young Greg Page. But I know Greg is from Louisville.

[Rick Farris]

Rick,

Remember my son Bobby (R) back in those years?

He is now 45 years old.

You bet ! I remember Bobby. And I have come across a treasure trove of old Junior Golden Gloves programs. Listed are the evening's matches, most that were put together by you. Your sons were ALL good. Usually, one brother will stand out a bit more than others. But Frankie & Tony were pretty much equal in their accomplishments. Had Bobby chose to take his pro career farher, I'm sure he would have done the same.

It seems your boys were all loaded with punchig power. Bobby was unbeaten in six fights, I believe, and five were KO's.

-Rick

[bennie]

A question I've always wanted to ask: why did boxing become so marginalized in LA in the 1980s? I grew up reading about LA boxing and the massive names and the massive crowds.
Then, it was virtually gone.

[kikibalt]

Guys

This is the 1973 Los Angeles Nat. G.G. team that I travel to Boston with, I'm not going to put name on the faces, see if you guys can name the fighters

I've forgotten the names of some of the boxers in the pic., I'll do the best to try to identify the boxers.

Back Row, me (when I was Young), ?, Roy Hollis, Roy won the nat. title that year, ?, ?, Randy Shields, ?, ? .

Front row, Mike Struat, Art Frias, Victor Abraham, ? Jimmy Lennon Sr.

[kikibalt]

A question I've always wanted to ask: why did boxing become so marginalized in LA in the 1980s? I grew up reading about LA boxing and the massive names and the massive crowds.
Then, it was virtually gone.

Bennie,

I don't have an answer to that, I go back to the late 1940's and I can remember that, then, you could go and see live fight, Monday to Friday, an some times on Saturday too, but in the late 1980's everything went to hell, the Forum and Olympic close, now, we get a live card onces every six monts or so.

[Rick Farris]

A question I've always wanted to ask: why did boxing become so marginalized in LA in the 1980s? I grew up reading about LA boxing and the massive names and the massive crowds.
Then, it was virtually gone.

Bennie, in my opinion, the era of Los Angeles boxing between mid-60's and late 70's, were the product of two amamzing promoters, Georrge Parnassus & Aileen Eaton. George was Aileen's machmaker until '65, when Mickey Davie came in to replace him, as he promoted his own fights.

Parnassus had this amazing connection that allowed him to bring up these great fighters fro South of the Border. Aileen had the Olympic going hot and heavy every thursday, 50 weeks a year. She used TV to build her club, not let it destroy the gate as it did everywhere else.

These were BOXING people, real PROMOTERS, they knew how to make a competitve match, and these great fights sold themselves. Today's promoters avoid competitive matches, because if a guy loses, some twenty year old cable TV exec. believes that fighters with a loss on their record won't be as marketable as a lesser fighter with a clean record.

I'm going too far here, in answer to your question. Not only did L.A. have some great talent, but promoters who knew how to showcase them.

Frank, knows more about this than me, but I know, boxing lost a lot in my eyes when these great promoters passed.

-Rick[/b]

[Rick Farris]

A question I've always wanted to ask: why did boxing become so marginalized in LA in the 1980s? I grew up reading about LA boxing and the massive names and the massive crowds.
Then, it was virtually gone.

Bennie, in my opinion, the era of Los Angeles boxing between mid-60's and late 70's, were the product of two amamzing promoters, Georrge Parnassus & Aileen Eaton. George was Aileen's machmaker until '65, when Mickey Davie came in to replace him, as he promoted his own fights.

Parnassus had this amazing connection that allowed him to bring up these great fighters fro South of the Border. Aileen had the Olympic going hot and heavy every thursday, 50 weeks a year. She used TV to build her club, not let it destroy the gate as it did everywhere else.

These were BOXING people, real PROMOTERS, they knew how to make a competitve match, and these great fights sold themselves. Today's promoters avoid competitive matches, because if a guy loses, some twenty year old cable TV exec. believes that fighters with a loss on their record won't be as marketable as a lesser fighter with a clean record.

I'm going too far here, in answer to your question. Not only did L.A. have some great talent, but promoters who knew how to showcase them.

Frank, knows more about this than me, but I know, boxing lost a lot in my eyes when these great promoters passed.

-Rick

[kikibalt]

pugie,

I have to say that I don't know if all that is true, when Larry would tell you a story he would get every dramatic and I think he would stretch the truth a bit, but I wouldn't put it pass old man O'G to do something like that.

I hear ya Frank.
I have heard that Pat Ogrady did have some peculiar ways.

Guys, I'm pretty sure the ref in that fight was Rudy Jordan and not Larry Rozadilla.

As far the rest of the story, the doctor was not just looking at O'Grady's cuts, he was also working on them as if he were his cutman!

It is towards the end of the round that O'G puts Fukuyama down on a combination. To Jordan's dismay, Shig gets up and looks pretty much in it, he waves the fight on but stops it 5 seconds later, (probably on Pat OGradys advice)

Broncano,

I take my hat off to you, you were right and I was wrong, it was Rudy that ref. that fight, so it had to have been Rudy that told me that story and not Larry.

[Broncano]

No need to do that Frank. It is You, Rick, dagos and others who are responsible for making this the greatest boxrec thread ever.

I am just an enthusiast who lived in South America back then and could only read about these things all of you were blessed to experience first hand. I would get Ring magazines sometimes with a 6-8 month delay. So keeping in mind Ring carried news from 2 months prior I had almost a year lag in my news.

I moved to the U.S. in 87 and since then have been collecting films of all these wonderful men I read about on Ring Magazine as a young boy in Peru.

Thanks again and keep the stories coming!