Classic American West Coast Boxing

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 02 Mar 2008, 21:09

Hey Frank,Archie Moore said that Bandit Romero had tried to intimidate him when he came to San Diego. I guess Romero was the big name in San Diego at the time. He told Archie that he'd make"dog meat' out of him. Johnny won the first bout in a decision. In the rematch that year(1938) Moore knocked him out. Romero told Moore"I don't have anything against you. Some of my best friends are colored people."
Archie answered,"My cousin could be in there with me,and I'd try to knock him out."
You know Frank and Rick,when I dropped by Moore's boy's club,he had signs on the wall of fines for swearing. MF was highest:$1.00. Come to think of it,I never heard Moore swear.

Do you two have any info on Shorty Hogue? Moore said that guy gave him fits. The only time Moore beat him was at the old ball park"Lane Field". Moore said that night he was supposed to fight Shorty's brother,Big Boy. Big Boy ,Moore said, was drunk,so his Brother Shorty pops up into the ring to stand up for his brother. Archie KO'd him in 2. Moore said he smelled alcohol on his breath.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 02 Mar 2008, 21:17

scartissue wrote:
Expug wrote:
bennie wrote:Expug: say hello to Johnny from his fans in England. He made a lot of friends here, too.
I sure will Bennie.
Thats really good to hear.
It will also make him very happy to hear that.

Pug and Bennie, I only had the opportunity to watch Heard in action once. He fought on a card that would have been impossible to put together a year or two later, but man, did it catch my eye when I saw it advertised. The promoters called it, "the British are coming" and besides Heard on the card as well as James 'Quick' Tillis and Jeff Sims, there were these three young kids from England and Ireland who were very inexperienced and just trying to get some exposure. The three fighters went by the names Frank Bruno, Barry McGuigan and Lloyd Honeyghan. I knew them all from reading every boxing magazine they would put on the stand (including a subscription to Boxing News) and it was a great night of boxing. Johnny fought on the card, beating one Gary Jones and I'll tell ya, Johnny put on a clinic. His physical condition belied his age which was around the early 40s I believe. Pug, did you attend that card? It was held at the DaVinci Manor.

Scartissue

I sure did Scar.
It was in 83.
I was in the gym training one day hitting the speed bag.
The Gym was called the US Arena it was at Division and Damen. Its long gone now.
Anyway as Im hittin the bag, a guy walked up and asked me in the most polite manner if he could borrow my speed bag when I was finished.
It was Frank Bruno.
He was fighting on the Divinci card in a few days.
That day he also sparred with Tillis and I thought he got the better of it.

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 02 Mar 2008, 21:18

Shorty Hogue and Cliff Judd...1944

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 02 Mar 2008, 21:37

RAUL EL RATON MACIAS VS BILLY PEACOCK

http://youtube.com/watch?v=clXu8Vy26vU&feature=related

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 02 Mar 2008, 22:04

kikibalt wrote:
Freddie Beshore vs Abel Fernandez

Abel Fernandez on the right went on to have an acting career after his boxing days were over, you might remember him as part of "The Untouchable's" on TV.

Fernandez played Agent William Youngfellow

Ok,I'm gonna' give you an Al Capone story. First of all,Eliot Ness never had much to do with putting Capone in jail. I told this story to my buddy "Lausse" cause he did me a nice favor. I told him I'd tell it later on the Forum when it was a good time. Since Frank put up that picture of "The Untouchables",I figure now is the good time. Until now only "Lausse' and me know this story. Now I'll let you guys in on it. Here's the real story of how Al Capone wound up in jail.

First,you've got to know about my grandfather:"Diamond Joe" Esposito. During the 20's he was a "wardman",head of the Unione Siciliana(even though my grandfather was born in Naples),bought rum from Joe Kennedy to put in his speakeasies,owned the"Bella Napoli" restaurant(Capone at his spaghetti there every night),and was the biggest bootlegger in Chicago. He brought up Capone,Sam Giacana,Paul"the Waiter" Ricca(got the name by being a waiter in the Bella Napoli),Tony Accardo,and Frank Nitti to name a few. He was connected to Coolidge. "Diamond Joe" was as big as they got in those days.

Well Capone wants to take over in the late 1920's. My grandfather gets'whacked" in 1928,and everyone figures that's how Capone made his move. Let's face it,the Mafia(called The Outfit in Chicago)isn't exactly a model for Jeffersonian democracy. If you wanted a promotion the best way to get help was use your friend"Tommy"

Ok,Capone is running things,but after Valentine's Day,Chicago doesn't want to send him any flowers. After my grandfather was murdered,Capone brings my father into his house as an "adopted son". That's what those grease ball hoods used to to when they killed somebody. Bring up the dead guy's son. Maybe they should have sent Capone flowers, and even a nice card.

Anyway,Capone is feeling the heat. The feds figure the only way to reel him in is on tax charges. The feds make a case,but Capone thinks he's got enough clout to beat this thing. Frank Nitti,who's the number 2 guy,invites Capone's lawyers over to Capone's mother's house for a run down of the details. The lawyers tell Nitti not to worry. They'll spread some money around in the usual places and Big Al is off the hook.

Well Nitti doesn't look at it that way. They call him "the Enforcer" because if you become a problem,Frank and his friend"Tommy" are there to enforce the punishment. Nitti walks up to Capone's lawyers and says"F--- H--". Capone's brain is rotting away from syphylis. Let him go to jail." OK Frank,you've made your point.

Well you'll never guess who's sitting in the parlor? My good 'ol dad. Al's "adopted son". He's heard everything. Nitti sees him sitting there trying to look dumb,but Nitti figures it's time to act like "The Enforcer"
My father told me Nitti grabs him by the shirt collar and pins him against the wall.
"Look punk",Nitti snarls,"You repeat what was said right now and I'll kill you!"
My father didn't repeat the story until he repeated it to me in 1966. Frank Nitti had been dead for 23 years.

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 02 Mar 2008, 22:20

Jose Becerra vs Alphonse Halimi

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6RqmM6c19T4

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 02 Mar 2008, 22:21

This thread could be a book all by itself. I never miss an entry. Thanks.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 02 Mar 2008, 22:28

BoxBuzz wrote:This thread could be a book all by itself. I never miss an entry. Thanks.

Hey Buzz,No ones going anywhere. Stick around for an education. Maybe we could get "credited" as a school and we could call ourselves BoxRec U.

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 02 Mar 2008, 22:29

BoxBuzz wrote:This thread could be a book all by itself. I never miss an entry. Thanks.

Hey BoxBuzz, we're on a roll here, maybe Mr.D and Rick will get together and write a book.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 02 Mar 2008, 22:47

kikibalt wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:This thread could be a book all by itself. I never miss an entry. Thanks.
Hey BoxBuzz, we're on a roll here, maybe Mr.D and Rick will get together and write a book.

Only if you contribute your pictures. I remember going to Knott's Berry Farm when I was a kid(you had some great pictures of that place). I liked Knott's Berry Farm cause I wasn't much for rides. Knott's Berry Farm didn't have any rides. I'd get sick on roller coasters and ferris wheels. When Disneyland put in Space Mountain,I crossed that joint off my list. I really got into the "Ghost Town" at Knott's Berry Farm. The old pictures of the good guys and the bad guys fascinated me. But my favorite place was "Jim Jeffries Barn". I'd walk in there and I thought I was in a Time Machine. Pictures of Dempsey,Ketchel,Langford. And that music coming from that player piano. I thought of "Big Jeff" bucking hay on his farm in Burbank when Burbank was alfalfa fields and cow pastures. I'd think about those fights in Vernon with "Mexican" Joe Rivers and Ad Wolgahst,Sam Langford and "Fireman" Jim Flynn.

I've been trying to locate one of those "Time Machines",and so far, no luck. I think I'll just stay with the Classic West Coast Boxing thread.

Rick Farris · Post by **Rick Farris** » 03 Mar 2008, 01:24

dagosd2000 wrote:
kikibalt wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:This thread could be a book all by itself. I never miss an entry. Thanks.
Hey BoxBuzz, we're on a roll here, maybe Mr.D and Rick will get together and write a book.
Only if you contribute your pictures. I remember going to Knott's Berry Farm when I was a kid(you had some great pictures of that place). I liked Knott's Berry Farm cause I wasn't much for rides. Knott's Berry Farm didn't have any rides. I'd get sick on roller coasters and ferris wheels. When Disneyland put in Space Mountain,I crossed that joint off my list. I really got into the "Ghost Town" at Knott's Berry Farm. The old pictures of the good guys and the bad guys fascinated me. But my favorite place was "Jim Jeffries Barn". I'd walk in there and I thought I was in a Time Machine. Pictures of Dempsey,Ketchel,Langford. And that music coming from that player piano. I thought of "Big Jeff" bucking hay on his farm in Burbank when Burbank was alfalfa fields and cow pastures. I'd think about those fights in Vernon with "Mexican" Joe Rivers and Ad Wolgahst,Sam Langford and "Fireman" Jim Flynn.

I've been trying to locate one of those "Time Machines",and so far, no luck. I think I'll just stay with the Classic West Coast Boxing thread.

Dagos . . .

I was born and raised in Burbank. My uncle trained at Jeffries Barn before WW2. I know the history of Jeffries, the Barn, it's most notable local fight Gene "Spider" Mock, and a couple stories regarding the former heavyweight champ, Burbank, the death of his wife (which was the beginning of the end of "Jeff".)

As one of the few pro boxers to come out of Burbank, you have to know that I'm familiar with the history. I also was familiar with the barn in it's latter years, where it rests at Knott's Berry Farm.

In years gone by, the once popular boxing venue, in the same town as Warner Bros. Studios, and nearby Universal International, was a place where some very wild amateur fights took place. It was also a local celeb hangout.

My grandfather, a legendary motion pic. lighting director, told me Jeffries, himself, would step in an referee. Ocasionally, some guy, usually a cowboy-movie stunt man, would be feeling the beer and challenge the former heavyweight champ. One night, Jeffries stacked up about ten wanna be movie toughs, one right after another.

He was often seen walking in the "uptown" part of Burbank, around San Fernando Rd. He was a big man, who wore a big cowboy hat, and the people loved him.

Jim Jeffries was smart, he invested well. Just recently, while looking thru the L.A. Times Real Estate section, I saw a home for sale in the Washington Heights section of N.E. Los Angeles, that Jeffries had bought for his parents in the 30's.

In the early 50's, Jeffries beloved wife was crossing the street in Burbank, right at the intersection of Buena Vista & Victory. This is the intersection of where the gym sat on the south-west coner, and Jeff & his wife had a big home on the North-East corner. She was hit by a car driven by a drunk driver and killed. Jeffries would pass shortly afterwards.

In 1954, I believe, the State of California put the Jeffries Barn on the Register of Historical Buildings, and the building was moved down to Buena Park, where Walter Knott's wife sold blue berry pies, as he built Southern Cal's first real theme park.

The barn would house a number of exhibits over the years, however, from the mid 50's to the early 70's, a small part of the barn was dedicated to a boxing museum. there were artifacts, and a resident historian, whose name I forget (he used to get pissed when I'd second guess him and catch him trying to "fake it". He didn't like me, and I don't blame him.

When the historian died, so did the Museum. Today, there is no memory of Jeffries Barn, it currently serves as a place to exhibit Japanese Dolls. On a wall, hidden from the public's view a brass plaque reads . . .
Jeffries Barn, Historical Bldg.

That's all, who's Jeffries????

-Rick

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 03 Mar 2008, 05:07

Expug wrote:
scartissue wrote:
Expug wrote: I sure will Bennie.
Thats really good to hear.
It will also make him very happy to hear that.

Pug and Bennie, I only had the opportunity to watch Heard in action once. He fought on a card that would have been impossible to put together a year or two later, but man, did it catch my eye when I saw it advertised. The promoters called it, "the British are coming" and besides Heard on the card as well as James 'Quick' Tillis and Jeff Sims, there were these three young kids from England and Ireland who were very inexperienced and just trying to get some exposure. The three fighters went by the names Frank Bruno, Barry McGuigan and Lloyd Honeyghan. I knew them all from reading every boxing magazine they would put on the stand (including a subscription to Boxing News) and it was a great night of boxing. Johnny fought on the card, beating one Gary Jones and I'll tell ya, Johnny put on a clinic. His physical condition belied his age which was around the early 40s I believe. Pug, did you attend that card? It was held at the DaVinci Manor.

Scartissue
I sure did Scar.
It was in 83.
I was in the gym training one day hitting the speed bag.
The Gym was called the US Arena it was at Division and Damen. Its long gone now.
Anyway as Im hittin the bag, a guy walked up and asked me in the most polite manner if he could borrow my speed bag when I was finished.
It was Frank Bruno.
He was fighting on the Divinci card in a few days.
That day he also sparred with Tillis and I thought he got the better of it.

The show was screened back to Blighty. McGuigan landed a beautiful right hand to flatten a tall American, and amazingly, the guy got up and the referee let it continue. Barry had already killed an opponent in the ring and had to go in and finish things and the guy was down a wee while. Barry was in tears in the ring.
Bruno showed his power taking out Mike Jameson in two rounds (later to go five with a young Tyson), while Honeyghan struggled to stop Kevin Austin in the 10th.
The man who had the best learning (hardest) fight turned out to be the best fighter, of course. A lesson there.

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 03 Mar 2008, 08:28

Gene "Spider" Mock, right, playfully puts up his mitts with former world's flyweight champ Fidel LaBarba, left, at a gathering of old time fighters, managers and friends at Mock's home in North Hollywood. Also shown are Mushy Callahan (next to LaBarba) and Frank Moran.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 03 Mar 2008, 10:32

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/3379506. ... 4F32AD3138
Fidel LaBarba (right) and Elky Clark

.

scartissue · Post by **scartissue** » 03 Mar 2008, 12:09

Pug and Bennie, I only had the opportunity to watch Heard in action once. He fought on a card that would have been impossible to put together a year or two later, but man, did it catch my eye when I saw it advertised. The promoters called it, "the British are coming" and besides Heard on the card as well as James 'Quick' Tillis and Jeff Sims, there were these three young kids from England and Ireland who were very inexperienced and just trying to get some exposure. The three fighters went by the names Frank Bruno, Barry McGuigan and Lloyd Honeyghan. I knew them all from reading every boxing magazine they would put on the stand (including a subscription to Boxing News) and it was a great night of boxing. Johnny fought on the card, beating one Gary Jones and I'll tell ya, Johnny put on a clinic. His physical condition belied his age which was around the early 40s I believe. Pug, did you attend that card? It was held at the DaVinci Manor.

Scartissue[/quote]
I sure did Scar.
It was in 83.
I was in the gym training one day hitting the speed bag.
The Gym was called the US Arena it was at Division and Damen. Its long gone now.
Anyway as Im hittin the bag, a guy walked up and asked me in the most polite manner if he could borrow my speed bag when I was finished.
It was Frank Bruno.
He was fighting on the Divinci card in a few days.
That day he also sparred with Tillis and I thought he got the better of it.[/quote]

The show was screened back to Blighty. McGuigan landed a beautiful right hand to flatten a tall American, and amazingly, the guy got up and the referee let it continue. Barry had already killed an opponent in the ring and had to go in and finish things and the guy was down a wee while. Barry was in tears in the ring.
Bruno showed his power taking out Mike Jameson in two rounds (later to go five with a young Tyson), while Honeyghan struggled to stop Kevin Austin in the 10th.
The man who had the best learning (hardest) fight turned out to be the best fighter, of course. A lesson there.[/quote]

At that card I happen to go back to the bathroom after a couple of cups of the suds were calling to me and I happen to meet up with McGuigan and his then manager Barney Eastwood in the facilities. I mention to both of them that he looked really good and that I'd been following him since the '80 Olympics. My god, they were so excited that anyone on this side of the pond knew who they were they both were repeatedly shaking my hand. All the while I'm thinking, "Oh man, couldn't you guys wash your hands first." Goofy story that always sticks in my head. BTW, haven't subscribed to Boxing News in years. It really lost some of it's lustre after Harry Mullan passed on and Claude Abrams took over. Anyone still pickup this publication?

Scartissue

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 03 Mar 2008, 15:09

Tony Baltazar, Alex Ramos and Bonnie & Danny Lopez

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 03 Mar 2008, 15:14

Referee John Thomas & Thad Spencer

Rick Farris · Post by **Rick Farris** » 03 Mar 2008, 15:18

Jim Jeffries . . .

Jeffries was said to be a great all-around athlete. He could run a hundred yards in 10 sec. flat, quite a feat for a big man, especially one who didn't have to "run away" from anything or anybody.

Jeffries retired unbeaten heavyweight champ in 1904, and was eventually pursueded to comeback to take on Jack Johnson, six years into his retirement. Of course, "Jeff" was too old, and Johnson to good, to satisfy those who were trying to eliminate the first black heavyweight champ.

I know this is all basic boxing history, however, the thing about Jeffries that impressed me was his raw athletic ability. Heres something that contemporary boxing fans (those who really don't understand fighting) tend not to understand. When people view old-time, turn-of-the-century footage of boxers, they don't just see grainy B&W images, but the speed of the cameras does not reflect the actual speed of the action.

In those years, we had hand cranked cameras. Usually these early cameramen liked to drink a bit while working, and sometimes they would over-crank the camera, which when projected at the standard 24 frames- per-second would make the boxers look "slower", or they would undercrank, which would "speed up" the action when projected. There is NO accurate way of judging the skill or competence of these great boxers strictly thru what is viewed using ancient motion picture equipment.

Shoot Jack Johnson, Dempsey, Joe Gans, Jeffries, etc. with modern day, state-of-the-art Hi-def equipment, like Dan Hanley and I use on our documentaries, and these so-called crude "old timers" might likely scare the crap out of today's version of prizefighter.

Just an opinion . . .

-Rick

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 03 Mar 2008, 15:21

scartissue wrote:Pug and Bennie, I only had the opportunity to watch Heard in action once. He fought on a card that would have been impossible to put together a year or two later, but man, did it catch my eye when I saw it advertised. The promoters called it, "the British are coming" and besides Heard on the card as well as James 'Quick' Tillis and Jeff Sims, there were these three young kids from England and Ireland who were very inexperienced and just trying to get some exposure. The three fighters went by the names Frank Bruno, Barry McGuigan and Lloyd Honeyghan. I knew them all from reading every boxing magazine they would put on the stand (including a subscription to Boxing News) and it was a great night of boxing. Johnny fought on the card, beating one Gary Jones and I'll tell ya, Johnny put on a clinic. His physical condition belied his age which was around the early 40s I believe. Pug, did you attend that card? It was held at the DaVinci Manor.

Scartissue

I sure did Scar.
It was in 83.
I was in the gym training one day hitting the speed bag.
The Gym was called the US Arena it was at Division and Damen. Its long gone now.
Anyway as Im hittin the bag, a guy walked up and asked me in the most polite manner if he could borrow my speed bag when I was finished.
It was Frank Bruno.
He was fighting on the Divinci card in a few days.
That day he also sparred with Tillis and I thought he got the better of it.[/quote]

The show was screened back to Blighty. McGuigan landed a beautiful right hand to flatten a tall American, and amazingly, the guy got up and the referee let it continue. Barry had already killed an opponent in the ring and had to go in and finish things and the guy was down a wee while. Barry was in tears in the ring.
Bruno showed his power taking out Mike Jameson in two rounds (later to go five with a young Tyson), while Honeyghan struggled to stop Kevin Austin in the 10th.
The man who had the best learning (hardest) fight turned out to be the best fighter, of course. A lesson there.[/quote]

At that card I happen to go back to the bathroom after a couple of cups of the suds were calling to me and I happen to meet up with McGuigan and his then manager Barney Eastwood in the facilities. I mention to both of them that he looked really good and that I'd been following him since the '80 Olympics. My god, they were so excited that anyone on this side of the pond knew who they were they both were repeatedly shaking my hand. All the while I'm thinking, "Oh man, couldn't you guys wash your hands first." Goofy story that always sticks in my head. BTW, haven't subscribed to Boxing News in years. It really lost some of it's lustre after Harry Mullan passed on and Claude Abrams took over. Anyone still pickup this publication?

Scartissue[/quote]
How bout that Davinci manor huh Scar.
Quite a place.
I actually thought it was a good boxing venue. But that neighborhood was a little dicey.
My Wife grew up about a mile and a half west of there in the Galewood section of Chicago.
I always had the impression that Davinci was kinda running by the seat of its pants.
There werent too many events there and really not as many boxing cards as there should have been.
I may be wrong but I think its Boxing run was brief.

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 03 Mar 2008, 15:22

Hogan (Kid) Bassey vs Ricardo (Pajarito) Moreno, April 1, 1958 (Los Angeles Wrigley Field).

Rick Farris · Post by **Rick Farris** » 03 Mar 2008, 15:23

By the way guys, Rodolfo Gonzalez tried to access this site last night, after registering, etc. However, he was denied access, and couldn't figure out how to get in. I spoke over the phone with El Gatos lady friend, Barbara, who tried to gain access, but they had no luck.

I'm sure it's a simple problem, and hopefully it will be worked out today. Rodolfo really wants to join in, it will ad another dimention to a great thread.

-Rick

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 03 Mar 2008, 15:31

Exterior view of heavyweight boxing champion James J. Jeffries' Barn. Jeffries built a large ranch home and a barn on his 107-acre ranch property, paying $2,000 down for the property and assuming a $10,000 mortgage. In the beginning, only ten acres were placed under cultivation but after a few years, he developed another 93 acres where he planted alfalfa. In 1931 Jeffries converted his dairy barn into a gym where he trained boxers and worked as a fight promoter. He promoted many fights out of "Jeffries Barn", also known as Jeffries Center, as well as holding Thursday night boxing matches until his death in 1953. After his death, the barn was dismantled and moved to Knott's Berry Farm amusement park. World heavyweight boxing champion from 1899-1905, James Jackson Jeffries (known as the "Boilermaker"), is considered to be one of the great heavyweight boxers of his era, perhaps the best of all time; he retired undefeated in May of 1905. He was elected to the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1990. Photo dated: June 30, 1939.

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 03 Mar 2008, 15:34

A continual parade of people filed through James J. Jeffries' Burbank home today to pay respect to the former heavyweight champion who died last Tuesday night. Here are some of the people who passed through the Jeffries home where the body will lie in state until tomorrow. Photo dated: March 6, 1953.

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 03 Mar 2008, 15:41

Kikibalt

Do you have any pictures of Charley 'Killer' Coates?

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 03 Mar 2008, 16:24

JIM JEFFRIES, center, towers over Tommy Burns and Philadelphia Jack O'Brien as they are about to fight for his recently relinquished heavyweight title.

Notice how young Jeffries' face looks here

as compared with what it looked like six years later--after six years of dissipation (heavy eating and smoking) and then having to lose close to 100 pounds in a short time to fight Jack Johnson.

Classic American West Coast Boxing

Jim Jeffries . . .

Gonzalez . . .