Lewis vs. Bowe Is On!!

[bobcat]

Also, I agree that the stick Bowe took in the Holyfield and Golota fights showed the man had balls enough.

i think it was ridiculous the way he ducked lewis,after all the shite he talked.but yes,he did achieve alot in his career,fought some of the best of his day(aside from lewis) and took some real punishment....so i dunno why he didnt fight lewis,probably just didnt have the same desire anymore(everyone knows he allways lacked discipline),and perhaps figured lewis would beat him,so why bother? either way,im quite sure this is all a joke,lewis seems much too smart to come back for this circus-like crap.

but yeah,if nothing else,golata defenitely showed that bowe had balls.

i'm really,really sorry.i just had to,it was just too easy.

[stujones]

Now, I've defended Bowe on the Lewis situation - but he didn't fight the best of the Rest.

He fought Holyfield, Golota, Seldon, Donald and Hide and thats it.

Where was Foreman, Moorer, McCall, Morrison, Mercer, Akinwande, Lewis, Tyson, Bruno, Witherspoon etc.

[HeavyHitters]

Now, I've defended Bowe on the Lewis situation - but he didn't fight the best of the Rest.

He fought Holyfield, Golota, Seldon, Donald and Hide and thats it.

Where was Foreman, Moorer, McCall, Morrison, Mercer, Akinwande, Lewis, Tyson, Bruno, Witherspoon etc.

I beg to differ with you here. Yes, Bowe did not fight some of those top fighters you mentioned: Foreman, McCall, Moorer, Morrison, Mercer, Akinwande, Lewis, Tyson, Bruno, Witherspoon.... But if you think about it, alot of those same fighters didn't fight each other either. Foreman never faced Holmes, McCall, Akinwande, Lewis, Bruno, Witherspoon... Moorer never faced Morrison, Mercer, Lewis, etc..... Lewis never faced Moorer, Akinwande, Witherspoon, Foreman... You get the idea.

But Bowe did fight Golota 2 times, Holyfield 3 times, Jorge Luis Gonzalez ( when Gonzo was undefeated and beleived to be good at the time ), Hide, Donald, ex-heavyweight champs Michael Dokes, Tony Tubbs, and Pinklon Thomas. He fought Coetzer, future champ Seldon ( and beat a Seldon in his prime easily ), a dangerous and young Bert Cooper, Tyrell Biggs. He even squared off early in his career against tough guys Garing Lane and Lionel Butler.

So yes, Bowe could have faced a few more guys during his prime years. But he did face quite a few good and excellent heavyweights during his career.

From how I saw it. Bowe threw the WBC belt in the trash cause he just attained it with a brutal, hard-fought win over Evander Holyfield, and the WBC sanctioning body was 'ordering' him to face Lennox Lewis right after winning it. ( Unknown ethnic background ) Rock Newman was upset at this, claiming ALL new champions get to pick their first opponent once gaining a title belt, and thus was being discriminated against. Bowe and Newman's plan was to beat someone like Jesse Ferguson, who had just won a hard-fought battle over heavily favored Ray Mercer to win a well deserved shot at the title. Then they were planning to take on Lewis. Since the WBC threatened to strip Bowe of the WBC belt if he didn't meet with Lewis first, they pre-emptive struck first and dumped the hypocritic WBC's belt.

Of course most fans of Lewis saw this as Bowe being afraid of Lewis, but I didn't see it that way. Bowe was eager to get back at Lewis for the unjustice he was served up during the 1988 Olympics where the biased ref called an end to the fight, after just one punch Lewis landed on Bowe. Most people ringside were stunned and confused when the referee stopped the contest early in the 2nd round, wondering why the referee wasn't allowing the fight to continue.

Was he stopping it because Bowe won?! Was he stopping it because Lewis won? Was a towel thrown into the ring? Was he waiting for a mouthpeice to be put back in? Was he issuing an standing eight count to someone?

Bottom line is, you don't call a fight because of just one solo punch lands. Either a fighter has to show signs of being hurt or injured or unable to continue, and none of these were the case. Bowe had his gloves up in his face, nodding "I'm OK" to the referee, but the referee was like, "No, I don't want you 'American' to win. You are disqualified!"

It was absolutely ridiculous.......

[HomicideHenry]

This fight is a decade too late...but it would just so happen, if it does pull off, to be the final nail in the coffin in what was Lewis's grand career, as it would mean that he fought and defeated every name opponent from his era.* Sure the fight would mean nothing, as both men are nobodies now, but none the less, Lewis would finally have Bowe on his resume...


*That is if you don't count Ruiz, Byrd, Wladimir Klitschko and even Jones

[overhand_right]

Without question, Bowe dropping the WBC belt robbed boxing of a great fight. But commercially it was wrong for him, and for Lewis, to meet at the point they had just won their "eliminators". It should be remembered that Lewis turned down a $2 million offer from the Bowe camp at that point, claiming the money wasn't good enough. Does that make Lewis a coward for not taking the fight purely for the honour of victory?
.

Lewis did that because the $3 mill he was offered represented 10% of the money pot, leaving the vast remnants to all go to Bowe, whereas if the fight went to purse bids he would be guaranteed %25, so dont blame him for turning down Newmans intentionally unattractive 'offer'.

Bowe dumped the WBC belt because he didn't want to fight the #1 right away. Why not milk it a while, make a few defences and build up to the mega fight? More money for everyone. Would any of you guys not do the same...?

Obviously Bowe didn't intend to lose the rematch to Holyfield but... oops!! You seem to forget Bowe was willing to fight Lewis for the WBC belt in 94, but only managed a NC4 with Buster Mathis then LL got splattered by Oliver McCall, so it went balls up. Not like they gonna fight a 10 rounder, no title.

After that they never really came close, Tyson got out in April 95 and both aimed towards the mega payday v Iron Mike, although late 96 Bowe/Tyson in NYC was the most talked about.

Just my less emotional recollections of the period, my friends...

[Autobarn]

You can make a strong case that Bowe, Holyfield and Tyson all went out of their way as long as they could to avoid Lewis. Holyfield tried to get a fight with Akinwande instead, incredibly, at one point; another big idea was a fight with Botha in SA I believe. There was so much mincing going on back then on the subject of Lennox Lewis.

[MightyWarrior]

Does anyone think it was really Bowe's idea to dump the belt? Or Rock Newman? If anyone was a bully, it was Rock - he was definitely the bossman in that relationship, Bowe would do anything he said.

Bowe would have fought Lewis if he'd been given the go ahead, can't have been anymore scary than taking on a crazed Polish ball breaker for a 2nd time.

[overhand_right]

You can make a strong case that Bowe, Holyfield and Tyson all went out of their way as long as they could to avoid Lewis. Holyfield tried to get a fight with Akinwande instead, incredibly, at one point; another big idea was a fight with Botha in SA I believe. There was so much mincing going on back then on the subject of Lennox Lewis.

Holyfield always wanted to accomodate Lewis but twice lost mandatories to first Bowe then later Moorer both of whom wanted to milk their belts before a risky fight with Lewis.

In 1998 DK wasn't over interested in putting his WBA/IBF champ in with WBC champ LL as DK had no control over LL. Plus in 1998 Holyfield had the headache of TWO horrendous obviously corrupt mandatory defences, first Akinwande (WBA) abandoned due to The Octopus getting hep C, and Vaughn Bean (IBF) who Holyfield did fight & beat.

The Botha fight they tried sneak in because a Lewis fight wasnt feasable in that small window of time they had in early 98 so DK tried patch something together in South Africa to honour Nelson Mandelas birthday.

Its good to look into the facts before dirtying the name of a great fighter like Holyfield.

[Autobarn]

There are a few things that can dirty the name of Evander Holyfield. He is a great fighter but not beyond criticism. The view was that he'd secured his legacy after beating Tyson and then seemingly take it easy (even though he's at his worst in routine fights). Lewis was regarded as the Lineal champion yet there didn't seem to be any major effort from Holy to go into this fight. I think he wanted to pad his title defenses and his bank balance out before fighting Lewis, a very losable fight due to Lennox's excellent use of the long reach.

Anyway, Holy could easily have dropped a belt or got an extension to make the most important fight in boxing at the time.

[overhand_right]

Holyfield was obsessed with being the Undisputed champ, but also playing by the rules and fighting #1 contenders even if he didn't believe they were worthy. His 'by the book' ethos is out there as far back as 1990 in books, magazine profiles and interviews, videos etc.

Holyfield was widely regarded as The Man and LL was not considered a lineal champ just because of his whacking of Briggs, prob because Briggs was not considered the real winner v Foreman and Foreman himself seemed to have vacated his position by downgrading his activity and opposition.

Comments like this: "I think he wanted to pad his title defenses and his bank balance out before fighting Lewis" are just not Holyfields attitude at all, never has been.

In 1998 it was HBO v Showtime and Don King not controlling LL and needless mandatories by the WBC, WBA and IBF that stopped their fight happening, not either fighter themselves.

[overhand_right]

Holyfield was obsessed with being the Undisputed champ, but also playing by the rules and fighting #1 contenders even if he didn't believe they were worthy. His 'by the book' ethos is out there as far back as 1990 in books, magazine profiles and interviews, videos etc.

Holyfield was widely regarded as The Man and LL was not considered a lineal champ just because of his whacking of Briggs, prob because Briggs was not considered the real winner v Foreman and Foreman himself seemed to have vacated his position by downgrading his activity and opposition.

Comments like this: "I think he wanted to pad his title defenses and his bank balance out before fighting Lewis" are just not Holyfields attitude at all, never has been.

In 1998 it was HBO v Showtime and Don King not controlling LL and needless mandatories by the WBC, WBA and IBF that stopped their fight happening, not either fighter themselves.

[Glyn Leach]

Just like New York

[overhand_right]

Eh? That one too obscure for my simple mind Mr Leach.

[Autobarn]

Holyfield was obsessed with being the Undisputed champ, but also playing by the rules and fighting #1 contenders even if he didn't believe they were worthy. His 'by the book' ethos is out there as far back as 1990 in books, magazine profiles and interviews, videos etc.

Holyfield was widely regarded as The Man and LL was not considered a lineal champ just because of his whacking of Briggs, prob because Briggs was not considered the real winner v Foreman and Foreman himself seemed to have vacated his position by downgrading his activity and opposition.

Comments like this: "I think he wanted to pad his title defenses and his bank balance out before fighting Lewis" are just not Holyfields attitude at all, never has been.

In 1998 it was HBO v Showtime and Don King not controlling LL and needless mandatories by the WBC, WBA and IBF that stopped their fight happening, not either fighter themselves.

I just think he was jittery about Lewis. He said bizarre things before the 1st fight, like he was deluding himself to think he could actually win the fight. I'll never believe that Evander was in a hurry for their fight before it was signed and in some post fight interviews he seemed very noncommital. Like you say, there were other issues keeping them apart. Just because he said he was by the book in interviews didn't mean he meant it with the Lewis situation. Boxing was so obsessed with Tyson at the time and I believe Evander felt he had done all the work in 1996, when he became a 3X champ earning Ali comparisons etc.

Holyfield was a great champion at cruiser and heavy, but post Bowe/Tyson I think e may have seen Lewis as being a bridge too far.

[Glyn Leach]

Eh? That one too obscure for my simple mind Mr Leach.

Sorry chap, just waffling - named it twice, said it twice, whatever. Carry on fella, carry on

[jamesmcdonnell]

Just like New York

So good they said it twice?

[stujones]

Now, I've defended Bowe on the Lewis situation - but he didn't fight the best of the Rest.

He fought Holyfield, Golota, Seldon, Donald and Hide and thats it.

Where was Foreman, Moorer, McCall, Morrison, Mercer, Akinwande, Lewis, Tyson, Bruno, Witherspoon etc.

I beg to differ with you here. Yes, Bowe did not fight some of those top fighters you mentioned: Foreman, McCall, Moorer, Morrison, Mercer, Akinwande, Lewis, Tyson, Bruno, Witherspoon.... But if you think about it, alot of those same fighters didn't fight each other either. Foreman never faced Holmes, McCall, Akinwande, Lewis, Bruno, Witherspoon... Moorer never faced Morrison, Mercer, Lewis, etc..... Lewis never faced Moorer, Akinwande, Witherspoon, Foreman... You get the idea.

But Bowe did fight Golota 2 times, Holyfield 3 times, Jorge Luis Gonzalez ( when Gonzo was undefeated and beleived to be good at the time ), Hide, Donald, ex-heavyweight champs Michael Dokes, Tony Tubbs, and Pinklon Thomas. He fought Coetzer, future champ Seldon ( and beat a Seldon in his prime easily ), a dangerous and young Bert Cooper, Tyrell Biggs. He even squared off early in his career against tough guys Garing Lane and Lionel Butler.

So yes, Bowe could have faced a few more guys during his prime years. But he did face quite a few good and excellent heavyweights during his career.

From how I saw it. Bowe threw the WBC belt in the trash cause he just attained it with a win over Evander Holyfield, and the WBC sanctioning body was ordering him to face Lennox Lewis right after winning it. ( Unknown ethnic background ) Rock Newman was upset at this, claiming ALL new champions get to pick their first opponent once gaining a title belt, and thus was being discriminated against. Bowe and Newman's plan was to beat someone like Jesse Ferguson, who had just won a hard-fought battle over heavily favored Ray Mercer to win a well deserved shot at the title. Then they were planning to take on Lewis. Since the WBC threatened to strip Bowe of the WBC belt if he didn't meet with Lewis first, they pre-emptive struck first and dumped the hypocritic WBC's belt first.

Of course most fans of Lewis saw this as Bowe being afraid of Lewis, but I didn't see it that way. Bowe was eager to get back at Lewis for the unjustice he was served up during the 1988 Olympics where the biased ref called an end to the fight, after just one punch Lewis landed on Bowe. Most people ringside were stunned and confused when the referee stopped the contest early in the 2nd round, wondering why the referee wasn't allowing the fight to continue.

Was he stopping it because Bowe won? Was he stopping it because Lewis won? Was a towel thrown into the ring? Was he waiting for a mouthpeice to be put back in? Was he issuing an standing eight count to someone?

Bottom line is, you don't call a fight because of just one solo punch lands. Either a fighter has t oshow signs of being hurt or injured or unable to continue, and none of these were the case. Bowe had his gloves up in his face, nodding "I'm OK" to the referee, but the referee was like, "No, I don't want you American to win. You are disqualified!"

It was absolutely ridiculous.......

I agree with that, but when you compare his number of big fights with that of Lewis, Holyfield and even Tyson he is lagging behind somewhat.

[Glyn Leach]

Just like New York

So good they said it twice?

Far more eloquently put than my waffle James, thank you for that

[Autobarn]

Don't want to come across as someone singling out Holyfield for criticism / or for mythologising Lewis. I will say this against Lewis: to this day I am baffled about the lack of effort he showed in the 2 Holyfield bouts, especially given how long it took him to get the biggest fights. I mean he had Evander whipped midway through the 1st fight. One more thing that annoys me about Lennox: the lack of rally vs Mercer in their close ten rounder. That said he should be an example for fighters like Calzaghe, given the # of dangerous/meaningful fights Lennox had throughout his career.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I think that Lewis held Holyfield in very high regard, and Holyfield had shown over his career to that point that he was always dangerous when under fire, and tough as old boots.

Lewis was also a fighter who seemed most dangerous against noted punchers, something that Holyfield was not. Holy got by on work rate, persistence and by counterpunching. Lewis probably didn't want to go on the attack for fear of leaving openings.

[overhand_right]

If you throw all the English man bolloks out the window and score LL/Mercer and LL/Holyfield fairly you might find yourself surprised by your card.

I think Mercer won 96-94 and Holyfield 116-112. Lewis tried be more aggressive and played into the old Bible Bashers hands, he gave LL a good ole whopping throughout most of their rematch.

"IMO", as always, of course.

PS is this Glyn Leach fella the real Glyn Leach? Does he still think Jorge Luis Gonzalez is the future overlord of the heavies?

[Autobarn]

I think it's the real Leach as he seemed to appear on the "The Latest Boxing Monthly is Abysmal" thread.

I had Lewis beating Mercer by a point or two. Had him beating Holyfield 1st time convincingly, and winning the 2nd competitively, about 7-4-1 in rounds. Not many ppl seem to have Evander winning the rematch. I hear only one ringside press member had Holy winning the rematch and it might have been Maxboxing's Doug Fischer who has been keen to reinforce that lots of ppl think Holy won it. Old Harty had Lewis losing it, but I was never convinced by his report.

I used to hate Lewis, and I could never give the rematch to Holy no matter how hard I tried.

[Autobarn]

I think that Lewis held Holyfield in very high regard, and Holyfield had shown over his career to that point that he was always dangerous when under fire, and tough as old boots.

Lewis was also a fighter who seemed most dangerous against noted punchers, something that Holyfield was not. Holy got by on work rate, persistence and by counterpunching. Lewis probably didn't want to go on the attack for fear of leaving openings.

Definitely, Lewis was great vs Golota, Grant and Ruddock.

Shame he couldn't have been a bit more assertive vs Evander through. Sometimes he looked like a lazy git, hanging back with those massive shorts on and throwing short jabs.

[Glyn Leach]

Yes it's as genuine a Glyn leach as is currently available - and yes, I do believe Jorge Luis Gonzalez is still the future of the heavies

[overhand_right]

I hear only one ringside press member had Holy winning the rematch and it might have been Maxboxing's Doug Fischer who has been keen to reinforce that lots of ppl think Holy won it. Old Harty had Lewis losing it, but I was never convinced by his report..

Dont believe what you hear. Check out the Boxing Monthly coverage, most the ringside journalists give the nod to Holyfield....and Boxing Monthly is of course edited by the fierce longtime LL supporter, Herr Leach.