HALF-WITTED "Book Review"

[granberry]

.
Idiot Bert Sugar writes a NY TIMES book review and never mentions the book he is “reviewing” until the last two paragraphs.

Instead he writes paragraph after paragraph never mentioning the book, while trying to toot his own horn, in an attempt to show HE is the authority.

Why would any editor accept this as a “book review” ?
_____________________________________________________________

'BARNEY ROSS,' BY DOUGLAS CENTURY
Illustrated. 216 pp. Nextbook/Schocken. $19.95.
Forum: Book News and Reviews
NY TIMES Review by BERT RANDOLPH SUGAR: February 19, 2006

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/19/books ... yt&emc=rss

ONCE upon a time, in the not so long ago, boxing was a major sport, a staple of network television, a constant in the sports pages, and its champions were some of the most celebrated figures in the world of sports. But today boxing has been consigned to cable and pay-per-view TV, coverage in the press is hidden somewhere under the shipping news, and its four alphabet-soup heavyweight champions are so well unknown that if they were to appear in a police lineup clad in robes, trunks and gloves, not only would you not know who they were, you might have a hard time figuring out what they did for a living.

But if today's boxing carries about the same amount of interest as municipal bonds, then television documentaries, movies and books have more than made up for its present by recycling its past, offering up the lives of such old-timers as Jack Johnson, James J. Braddock, Joe Louis and Max Schmeling to fan the dying embers of boxing's campfire.

All the above-mentioned, of course, were heavyweight champions, the fighters with whom fans have long identified. Which makes the selection of Barney Ross an unusual subject for a boxing biography. Still, he is an excellent choice. For while some people are ahead of their time, and some after it, Barney Ross was his time — his time being the Great Depression, when fans who could not feed their bellies identified with this "little man" who dealt out large platefuls of hope. This was especially true of his Jewish admirers, for whom Ross served up a healthy portion of ethnic pride. They adopted this warrior who, as Douglas Century writes, "embodied the fantasy of Jewish force" in much the same way fans some 10 years before had adopted Benny Leonard, who, in the words of Budd Schulberg, "was doing with his fists what the Adolph Zukors and William Foxes, and soon the L. B. Mayers and the B. P. Schulbergs, were doing in their studios and their theaters . . . fighting the united efforts of the goyim establishment to keep them in their ghettos."

Leonard had been the first stone to hit the water, [WRONG—Abe Attell , “the Little Hebrew,” won the featherweight title in the year 1901] creating, in ever-widening circles, wave after wave of fighters from the ghettos. In his wake came Maxie Rosenbloom, Al Singer and Sid Terris from New York; and from Chicago, King Levinsky, Jackie Fields, Charley White (whose talents inspired Ernest Hemingway to say that "life is the greatest left-hooker so far, although many say it was Charley White"), etc., etc., the et ceteras going on for about five pages or more. There were so many, in fact, that by 1930 the descendants of the 18th-century champion known as Mendoza the Jew so dominated the sport that the boxing announcer Joe Humphreys said, "The United States today is the greatest fistic nation in the world, and a close examination of its 4,000 or more fighters shows that the cream of its talent is Jewish."
Perhaps the greatest of the 30's crop of Jewish boxers was a fighter out of the Maxwell Street area of Chicago, born Dov-Ber Rasofsky, better known by his nom de guerre, Barney Ross. The 19-year-old Rasofsky-Ross won the Chicago and Intercity Golden Gloves championships in 1929 and turned pro that same year, just as the Roaring Twenties came to a screeching halt, soon to be replaced by bread lines and Bonus Army camps. Fighting to exorcise "the bitterness and hatred inside me" that resulted from the murder of his father in a grocery store holdup, Ross embodied the hopes and dreams of his Jewish followers, who were also battling with bitterness against the forces trying to keep them imprisoned in their ghettos.

But if a depression lay on the land, it also lay on boxing. By 1933, not only was the sport depressed, its talent was equally depressing. The heavyweight champion, Primo Carnera, was a joke; six of the eight major weight divisions suffered through periods when their titles were vacant; and Nat Fleischer, the editor of The Ring magazine, moaned: "Was there ever a year when so few boys shone in pugilism? I dare venture that 1933 is the worst on record."

Into this vacuum came three little men who stood taller than their actual heights: Tony Canzoneri, Jimmy McLarnin and Barney Ross. They also stood for something more, ethnic identification: Canzoneri was Italian; McLarnin, Irish; and Ross, Jewish. Together these three would be the tonic the sport needed; as Century makes clear, their ring wars, in effect, were wars for ethnic turf.

In the years before Joe Louis took over as the face of boxing, the three would light up the sport's bleak skies. Ross and Canzoneri initiated the wars with two fights in 1933, with Ross winning both, and the lightweight and junior-welterweight titles in the bargain. Ross next determined to challenge the welterweight champion, McLarnin, who was known as the Hebrew Scourge and the Jew Beater for taking on, and taking out, the best of the ghetto heroes.

In as thrilling a fight as New York had seen in many a year, Ross threw both caution and punches to the wind. Discarding the efficient, careful style that had served him so well in his previous 57 fights, he matched McLarnin punch for punch. Time and again he got away with it. He also got away with a split decision and the welterweight championship. Twice more these two greats were to battle for the ethnic turf of New York. And when the final tally had been made, it read: two victories for Ross, one for McLarnin and three for boxing.

Ross would go on to fight 18 more times, his final bout coming in 1938 against the perpetual motion machine called Henry Armstrong. For 15 rounds, Ross exhibited an infinite capacity for pain, absorbing everything Armstrong had to offer. He was badly beaten, and as he left the ring the sportswriter Grantland Rice asked, "Why didn't you quit?" A defiant former titleholder answered, "A champ's got the right to choose the way he goes out."

Barney Ross would indeed go out as a champion. And those fans who had cheered him at the beginning of his career in faith, and midway through in appreciation, now cheered him in adulation, his name worthy of being stenciled on all the white ribbons adorning Maxwell Street and his feats forever pressed between the pages of boxing's record book.
However, the book on Ross was hardly closed with the end of his boxing career; it would go on to have more plotlines than a Russian novel. Century, the author of "Street Kingdom: Five Years Inside the Franklin Avenue Posse," treats Ross's boxing afterlife in exacting detail: his winning the Silver Star for having saved two Marine buddies and killing some 20 of the enemy on Guadalcanal, despite suffering serious injuries; his addiction to the morphine administered to him during his convalescence; his slide down the razor blade of life and his subsequent rehabilitation; and his advocacy of a Jewish state.

If there is one fault to be found with "Barney Ross" (the third book in the "Jewish Encounters" series), it's that Century fails to connect the dots between the young Ross and those whose names appeared on the front pages and in the police blotter at the same time. Instead, he cites Ross's claim that he ran only "innocuous errands" for Al Capone (a statement he made in an F.B.I. interview regarding his childhood friend Jacob Rubenstein, a k a Jack Ruby) without carefully examining it. There are many competing versions of the story of the connection between Ross and Capone, depending upon which Chicago graybeard you listen to. One has it that Capone, a benefactor of all things boxing in Chicago in the 20's, actually underwrote Ross's professional beginnings. Another, that if it wasn't Capone himself, then it was one of his henchmen who gave Ross his amateur start. Either way, it deserves an explanation. And an explanation for the explanation.

Quibbles aside, this is an excellent story of a man and his times. And proof positive that time does not relinquish its hold over men or monuments. In a sport devoted to fashioning halos for its superstars, Ross wore a special nimbus, and this book properly fits him for that. The sport of boxing could surely use another Barney Ross today.

Bert Randolph Sugar, a boxing historian, has served as the editor of The Ring and Boxing Illustrated magazines. His most recent book is "Boxing's Greatest Fighters."

[dempseyfire]

.
Idiot Bert Sugar writes a NY TIMES book review and never mentions the book he is “reviewing” until the last two paragraphs.

Instead he writes paragraph after paragraph never mentioning the book, while trying to toot his own horn, in an attempt to show HE is the authority.

Why would any editor accept this as a “book review” ?
_____________________________________________________________

'BARNEY ROSS,' BY DOUGLAS CENTURY
Illustrated. 216 pp. Nextbook/Schocken. $19.95.
Forum: Book News and Reviews
NY TIMES Review by BERT RANDOLPH SUGAR: February 19, 2006

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/19/books ... yt&emc=rss

ONCE upon a time, in the not so long ago, boxing was a major sport, a staple of network television, a constant in the sports pages, and its champions were some of the most celebrated figures in the world of sports. But today boxing has been consigned to cable and pay-per-view TV, coverage in the press is hidden somewhere under the shipping news, and its four alphabet-soup heavyweight champions are so well unknown that if they were to appear in a police lineup clad in robes, trunks and gloves, not only would you not know who they were, you might have a hard time figuring out what they did for a living.

But if today's boxing carries about the same amount of interest as municipal bonds, then television documentaries, movies and books have more than made up for its present by recycling its past, offering up the lives of such old-timers as Jack Johnson, James J. Braddock, Joe Louis and Max Schmeling to fan the dying embers of boxing's campfire.

All the above-mentioned, of course, were heavyweight champions, the fighters with whom fans have long identified. Which makes the selection of Barney Ross an unusual subject for a boxing biography. Still, he is an excellent choice. For while some people are ahead of their time, and some after it, Barney Ross was his time — his time being the Great Depression, when fans who could not feed their bellies identified with this "little man" who dealt out large platefuls of hope. This was especially true of his Jewish admirers, for whom Ross served up a healthy portion of ethnic pride. They adopted this warrior who, as Douglas Century writes, "embodied the fantasy of Jewish force" in much the same way fans some 10 years before had adopted Benny Leonard, who, in the words of Budd Schulberg, "was doing with his fists what the Adolph Zukors and William Foxes, and soon the L. B. Mayers and the B. P. Schulbergs, were doing in their studios and their theaters . . . fighting the united efforts of the goyim establishment to keep them in their ghettos."

Leonard had been the first stone to hit the water, [WRONG—Abe Attell , “the Little Hebrew,” won the featherweight title in the year 1901] creating, in ever-widening circles, wave after wave of fighters from the ghettos. In his wake came Maxie Rosenbloom, Al Singer and Sid Terris from New York; and from Chicago, King Levinsky, Jackie Fields, Charley White (whose talents inspired Ernest Hemingway to say that "life is the greatest left-hooker so far, although many say it was Charley White"), etc., etc., the et ceteras going on for about five pages or more. There were so many, in fact, that by 1930 the descendants of the 18th-century champion known as Mendoza the Jew so dominated the sport that the boxing announcer Joe Humphreys said, "The United States today is the greatest fistic nation in the world, and a close examination of its 4,000 or more fighters shows that the cream of its talent is Jewish."
Perhaps the greatest of the 30's crop of Jewish boxers was a fighter out of the Maxwell Street area of Chicago, born Dov-Ber Rasofsky, better known by his nom de guerre, Barney Ross. The 19-year-old Rasofsky-Ross won the Chicago and Intercity Golden Gloves championships in 1929 and turned pro that same year, just as the Roaring Twenties came to a screeching halt, soon to be replaced by bread lines and Bonus Army camps. Fighting to exorcise "the bitterness and hatred inside me" that resulted from the murder of his father in a grocery store holdup, Ross embodied the hopes and dreams of his Jewish followers, who were also battling with bitterness against the forces trying to keep them imprisoned in their ghettos.

But if a depression lay on the land, it also lay on boxing. By 1933, not only was the sport depressed, its talent was equally depressing. The heavyweight champion, Primo Carnera, was a joke; six of the eight major weight divisions suffered through periods when their titles were vacant; and Nat Fleischer, the editor of The Ring magazine, moaned: "Was there ever a year when so few boys shone in pugilism? I dare venture that 1933 is the worst on record."

Into this vacuum came three little men who stood taller than their actual heights: Tony Canzoneri, Jimmy McLarnin and Barney Ross. They also stood for something more, ethnic identification: Canzoneri was Italian; McLarnin, Irish; and Ross, Jewish. Together these three would be the tonic the sport needed; as Century makes clear, their ring wars, in effect, were wars for ethnic turf.

In the years before Joe Louis took over as the face of boxing, the three would light up the sport's bleak skies. Ross and Canzoneri initiated the wars with two fights in 1933, with Ross winning both, and the lightweight and junior-welterweight titles in the bargain. Ross next determined to challenge the welterweight champion, McLarnin, who was known as the Hebrew Scourge and the Jew Beater for taking on, and taking out, the best of the ghetto heroes.

In as thrilling a fight as New York had seen in many a year, Ross threw both caution and punches to the wind. Discarding the efficient, careful style that had served him so well in his previous 57 fights, he matched McLarnin punch for punch. Time and again he got away with it. He also got away with a split decision and the welterweight championship. Twice more these two greats were to battle for the ethnic turf of New York. And when the final tally had been made, it read: two victories for Ross, one for McLarnin and three for boxing.

Ross would go on to fight 18 more times, his final bout coming in 1938 against the perpetual motion machine called Henry Armstrong. For 15 rounds, Ross exhibited an infinite capacity for pain, absorbing everything Armstrong had to offer. He was badly beaten, and as he left the ring the sportswriter Grantland Rice asked, "Why didn't you quit?" A defiant former titleholder answered, "A champ's got the right to choose the way he goes out."

Barney Ross would indeed go out as a champion. And those fans who had cheered him at the beginning of his career in faith, and midway through in appreciation, now cheered him in adulation, his name worthy of being stenciled on all the white ribbons adorning Maxwell Street and his feats forever pressed between the pages of boxing's record book.
However, the book on Ross was hardly closed with the end of his boxing career; it would go on to have more plotlines than a Russian novel. Century, the author of "Street Kingdom: Five Years Inside the Franklin Avenue Posse," treats Ross's boxing afterlife in exacting detail: his winning the Silver Star for having saved two Marine buddies and killing some 20 of the enemy on Guadalcanal, despite suffering serious injuries; his addiction to the morphine administered to him during his convalescence; his slide down the razor blade of life and his subsequent rehabilitation; and his advocacy of a Jewish state.

If there is one fault to be found with "Barney Ross" (the third book in the "Jewish Encounters" series), it's that Century fails to connect the dots between the young Ross and those whose names appeared on the front pages and in the police blotter at the same time. Instead, he cites Ross's claim that he ran only "innocuous errands" for Al Capone (a statement he made in an F.B.I. interview regarding his childhood friend Jacob Rubenstein, a k a Jack Ruby) without carefully examining it. There are many competing versions of the story of the connection between Ross and Capone, depending upon which Chicago graybeard you listen to. One has it that Capone, a benefactor of all things boxing in Chicago in the 20's, actually underwrote Ross's professional beginnings. Another, that if it wasn't Capone himself, then it was one of his henchmen who gave Ross his amateur start. Either way, it deserves an explanation. And an explanation for the explanation.

Quibbles aside, this is an excellent story of a man and his times. And proof positive that time does not relinquish its hold over men or monuments. In a sport devoted to fashioning halos for its superstars, Ross wore a special nimbus, and this book properly fits him for that. The sport of boxing could surely use another Barney Ross today.

Bert Randolph Sugar, a boxing historian, has served as the editor of The Ring and Boxing Illustrated magazines. His most recent book is "Boxing's Greatest Fighters."

Toot his own horn?? He delves into a brief backstory on Barney Ross as 99% of NY Times readers would have no idea who the hell Barney Ross was. Better to set the stage than to go headforward into the technicalities of a book about a man most people have never heard of.
Sure it's a little elongated and wispish, but that's his writing style. You don't like it don't read it.

[granberry]

Toot his own horn?? He delves into a brief backstory on Barney Ross as 99% of NY Times readers would have no idea who the hell Barney Ross was. Better to set the stage than to go headforward into the technicalities of a book about a man most people have never heard of.
Sure it's a little elongated and wispish, but that's his writing style. You don't like it don't read it.

dempseyfire lacks the mentality to know what a book review is.

[dempseyfire]

Toot his own horn?? He delves into a brief backstory on Barney Ross as 99% of NY Times readers would have no idea who the hell Barney Ross was. Better to set the stage than to go headforward into the technicalities of a book about a man most people have never heard of.
Sure it's a little elongated and wispish, but that's his writing style. You don't like it don't read it.

dempseyfire lacks the mentality to know what a book review is.

The wide majority of NY Times book reviews are written in a manner in which they author describes what the book is about/history of the topic and not just about the book itself. Since you've presumably been alive since the NY Times began pressing newspapers, I would think you'd know that.

[granberry]

Idiot Sugar NEVER MENTIONS the name of the author of the book.

And he NEVER MENTIONS the existence of the book until the last two paragraphs of his supposed 'book review'.

What a disgrace for a book review.

If anyone reviewed a book put out by Sugar in that fashion, he would scream bloody murder.

[dagosd2000]

Idiot Sugar NEVER MENTIONS the name of the author of the book.

And he NEVER MENTIONS the existence of the book until the last two paragraphs of his supposed 'book review'.

What a disgrace for a book review.

If anyone reviewed a book put out by Sugar in that fashion, he would scream bloody murder.

I think what Granberry is saying is that the book review 's ulterior motive is to showcase Sugar's writing style. Sugar ,if he wanted to do this,should have just written a fictional story on boxing or told a personal story. If I was the author of this biography,I would feel that Sugar had used my book to express himself as a literary talent. I would have felt a bit used.

[dempseyfire]

Idiot Sugar NEVER MENTIONS the name of the author of the book.

And he NEVER MENTIONS the existence of the book until the last two paragraphs of his supposed 'book review'.

What a disgrace for a book review.

If anyone reviewed a book put out by Sugar in that fashion, he would scream bloody murder.

I think what Granberry is saying is that the book review 's ulterior motive is to showcase Sugar's writing style. Sugar ,if he wanted to do this,should have just written a fictional story on boxing or told a personal story. If I was the author of this biography,I would feel that Sugar had used my book to express himself as a literary talent. I would have felt a bit used.

I agree he goes on for too long, but I believe he did the book a favor by giving the reader some backstory as opposed to diving straight into the review itself. I'm not saying it's a great book review but to suggest it's Sugar trying to "wow" his audience by seeming like an authority, is absurd.

[Expug]

A couple years ago when this book came out.
(At least I thinkits this book.)
There was a panel discussion in a book store in the old Jewish neighborhood in Chicago where Ross grew up.
There were guest panelists I guess you would call them along with the author of the book who was related to Ross. There were also some other Ross family members there.
Along with Johnny Lira referee Tim Adams, referee Sean Curtin a boxing writer whos name Ive forgotten and of course Bert Sugar.
I met the guy Sugar and got the brush off.
He didnt seem to give a f..k who I was .I didnt care.
But the thing about that guy is he monopolizes the hell out of a discussion thats for sure.
Hes got lots of stories but they get real repetitive.
He doesnt listen too much .

[granberry]

A couple years ago when this book came out.
(At least I thinkits this book.)
There was a panel discussion in a book store in the old Jewish neighborhood in Chicago where Ross grew up.
There were guest panelists I guess you would call them along with the author of the book who was related to Ross. There were also some other Ross family members there.
Along with Johnny Lira referee Tim Adams, referee Sean Curtin a boxing writer whos name Ive forgotten and of course Bert Sugar.
I met the guy Sugar and got the brush off.
He didnt seem to give a f..k who I was .I didnt care.
But the thing about that guy is he monopolizes the hell out of a discussion thats for sure.
Hes got lots of stories but they get real repetitive.
He doesnt listen too much .

Sugar is a drunk.

He is drunk by 12 noon every day and has been for years.
During the time he was 'editor' of what was left of the RING magazine after Nat Fleischer died, if you could drink with him he would put your articles in the sorry magazine. The RING magazine under Sugar was riddled with mistakes.

Sugar will come running at any distance if he hears that he can be on a media show.

I was on a radio show when Jersey Joe Walcott died. Sugar was on too, and said the original Joe Walcott was "middleweight' champion.
He can't open his mouth without making a mistake.

As his 'book review' above shows, Sugar belongs to the ME ME ME school of the modern media.

I read this "book review," and I still don't have a single iota of information on the book supposedly being 'reviewed.'
.

[dagosd2000]

A couple years ago when this book came out.
(At least I thinkits this book.)
There was a panel discussion in a book store in the old Jewish neighborhood in Chicago where Ross grew up.
There were guest panelists I guess you would call them along with the author of the book who was related to Ross. There were also some other Ross family members there.
Along with Johnny Lira referee Tim Adams, referee Sean Curtin a boxing writer whos name Ive forgotten and of course Bert Sugar.
I met the guy Sugar and got the brush off.
He didnt seem to give a f..k who I was .I didnt care.
But the thing about that guy is he monopolizes the hell out of a discussion thats for sure.
Hes got lots of stories but they get real repetitive.
He doesnt listen too much .

Pug,You're right. He's too into himself. Sometimes when he is supposed to be interviewing someone or he's on a panel,he's either interrupting or stepping on somebody's toes. I've seen people who he's interviewing or sharing a panel with ,give up trying to get a word in. Sugar has probably stifled more information that people want to share since Howard Cosell.

I just bought a PBS video on the Mike Douglas show. Former guests on his show related that Douglas made them feel at ease. They felt free to open up. They knew Douglas wasn't going to judge them nor was Douglas intimidated by his guests. Sometimes Douglas would just turn the show over to a guest and let him run with it.

[dagosd2000]

A couple years ago when this book came out.
(At least I thinkits this book.)
There was a panel discussion in a book store in the old Jewish neighborhood in Chicago where Ross grew up.
There were guest panelists I guess you would call them along with the author of the book who was related to Ross. There were also some other Ross family members there.
Along with Johnny Lira referee Tim Adams, referee Sean Curtin a boxing writer whos name Ive forgotten and of course Bert Sugar.
I met the guy Sugar and got the brush off.
He didnt seem to give a f..k who I was .I didnt care.
But the thing about that guy is he monopolizes the hell out of a discussion thats for sure.
Hes got lots of stories but they get real repetitive.
He doesnt listen too much .

Sugar is a drunk.

He is drunk by 12 noon every day and has been for years.
During the time he was 'editor' of what was left of the RING magazine after Nat Fleischer died, if you could drink with him he would put your articles in the sorry magazine. The RING magazine under Sugar was riddled with mistakes.

Sugar will come running at any distance if he hears that he can be on a media show.

I was on a radio show when Jersey Joe Walcott died. Sugar was on too, and said the original Joe Walcott was "middleweight' champion.
He can't open his mouth without making a mistake.

As his 'book review' above shows, Sugar belongs to the ME ME ME school of the modern media.

I read this "book review," and I still don't have a single iota of information on the book supposedly being 'reviewed.'
.

I remember buying a "Ring Record Book" when Sugar was the editor. It wasn't even a shell of what it was when Nat Fleischer was in charge.

[bennie]

A couple years ago when this book came out.
(At least I thinkits this book.)
There was a panel discussion in a book store in the old Jewish neighborhood in Chicago where Ross grew up.
There were guest panelists I guess you would call them along with the author of the book who was related to Ross. There were also some other Ross family members there.
Along with Johnny Lira referee Tim Adams, referee Sean Curtin a boxing writer whos name Ive forgotten and of course Bert Sugar.
I met the guy Sugar and got the brush off.
He didnt seem to give a f..k who I was .I didnt care.
But the thing about that guy is he monopolizes the hell out of a discussion thats for sure.
Hes got lots of stories but they get real repetitive.
He doesnt listen too much .

I'm surprised Johnny Lira didn't give him a little slap.

[m1kee50]

A couple years ago when this book came out.
(At least I thinkits this book.)
There was a panel discussion in a book store in the old Jewish neighborhood in Chicago where Ross grew up.
There were guest panelists I guess you would call them along with the author of the book who was related to Ross. There were also some other Ross family members there.
Along with Johnny Lira referee Tim Adams, referee Sean Curtin a boxing writer whos name Ive forgotten and of course Bert Sugar.
I met the guy Sugar and got the brush off.
He didnt seem to give a f..k who I was .I didnt care.
But the thing about that guy is he monopolizes the hell out of a discussion thats for sure.
Hes got lots of stories but they get real repetitive.
He doesnt listen too much .

Blimey.... those sorts of people can really ruin a conversation....

[Collins2000]

A couple years ago when this book came out.
(At least I thinkits this book.)
There was a panel discussion in a book store in the old Jewish neighborhood in Chicago where Ross grew up.
There were guest panelists I guess you would call them along with the author of the book who was related to Ross. There were also some other Ross family members there.
Along with Johnny Lira referee Tim Adams, referee Sean Curtin a boxing writer whos name Ive forgotten and of course Bert Sugar.
I met the guy Sugar and got the brush off.
He didnt seem to give a f..k who I was .I didnt care.
But the thing about that guy is he monopolizes the hell out of a discussion thats for sure.
Hes got lots of stories but they get real repetitive.
He doesnt listen too much .

Blimey.... those sorts of people can really ruin a conversation....

[p4p1]

granberry although i agree with you sometimes you make it very hard to with your hateful ramblings if you toned down the amount of hatred alot more people would probably listen to you and not treat you as a joke

[granberry]

granberry although i agree with you sometimes you make it very hard to with your hateful ramblings if you toned down the amount of hatred alot more people would probably listen to you and not treat you as a joke

Stick with your Bert Sugar.
.

[p4p1]

^^^ i never said i like bert sugar i dont have an opinion of his writing as i havnt read anything he writes i have seen his books but havnt wanted to pick them up as i dont like him