Best boxing documentaries

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 03 Mar 2008, 21:23

When people think of De La Hoya they think of his fights with Chavez, Whitaker, Quartey, Trinidad, Mosley, Hopkins, Mayweather. They don't think Giorgio Campanella. Young fighters getting knocked down is indeed meaningless.

And, yes, I think Ali does get credit for getting up against Frazier. Just as Holmes gets credit for getting up against Shavers, or Cobb and Chuvalo and LaMotta get credit for taking the beatings they took.

Did you like that pic of Louis going down against Galento granny?

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 03 Mar 2008, 21:36

granberry wrote:Since Ali was unable to score a knockdown against Frazier in 3 fights,

the media repeatedly posts a picture of Ali throwing a punch at Frazier,

since that is the best they can come up with.

They would never DARE post the defining photo of Ali's career--

that of Frazier knocking Ali flat on his back--

because that goes against the Agenda.

David Icke sincerely believes the world is secretly run by an alien race of shape-shifting reptiles. He's a nutter though.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 03 Mar 2008, 21:39

granberry wrote:Since Ali was unable to score a knockdown against Frazier in 3 fights,

the media repeatedly posts a picture of Ali throwing a punch at Frazier,

since that is the best they can come up with.

They would never DARE post the defining photo of Ali's career--

that of Frazier knocking Ali flat on his back--

because that goes against the Agenda.

Knock outs are more important than knock downs, and Ali stopped Joe

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 03 Mar 2008, 21:47

I Feel Fine wrote:
granberry wrote:Since Ali was unable to score a knockdown against Frazier in 3 fights,

the media repeatedly posts a picture of Ali throwing a punch at Frazier,

since that is the best they can come up with.

They would never DARE post the defining photo of Ali's career--

that of Frazier knocking Ali flat on his back--

because that goes against the Agenda.
Knock outs are more important than knock downs, and Ali stopped Joe

Only because that traitor Futch was paid off by the "Ali industry" to call the bout off at the end of the 14th. Just as Frazier was about to KO Ali in the last round!

That's what granberry really believes.

Can anyone who supports granberry as being a knowledgable poster explain the logic in that to me?

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that is the stupidest thing I have EVER read in here and there has been some shite posted over the years.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 04 Mar 2008, 00:58

granberry wrote:Since Ali was unable to score a knockdown against Frazier in 3 fights,

the media repeatedly posts a picture of Ali throwing a punch at Frazier,

since that is the best they can come up with.

They would never DARE post the defining photo of Ali's career--

that of Frazier knocking Ali flat on his back--

because that goes against the Agenda.

I agree with you 100% Granberry

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 04 Mar 2008, 02:02

elmersalsa wrote:
granberry wrote:Since Ali was unable to score a knockdown against Frazier in 3 fights,

the media repeatedly posts a picture of Ali throwing a punch at Frazier,

since that is the best they can come up with.

They would never DARE post the defining photo of Ali's career--

that of Frazier knocking Ali flat on his back--

because that goes against the Agenda.

I agree with you 100% Granberry

So, until granberry posted that picture, you'd never seen it? Well, it's always been obvious you knew nothing about boxing so it was only to be expected.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 04 Mar 2008, 03:21

Collins2000 wrote:
elmersalsa wrote:
granberry wrote:Since Ali was unable to score a knockdown against Frazier in 3 fights,

the media repeatedly posts a picture of Ali throwing a punch at Frazier,

since that is the best they can come up with.

They would never DARE post the defining photo of Ali's career--

that of Frazier knocking Ali flat on his back--

because that goes against the Agenda.

I agree with you 100% Granberry
So, until granberry posted that picture, you'd never seen it? Well, it's always been obvious you knew nothing about boxing so it was only to be expected.

Until I posted that picture

collins, buzz, irene, ifeelikeafairy and the rest of The Religion of Ali contingent had never seen it.

And when they saw it they understood why Thomas Hauser will never allow it in any of his books.

The Religion of Ali says, "This NEVER HAPPENED."

[/quote]

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 04 Mar 2008, 03:30

This "religion" of Ali (praise be his name) doesn't ignore that Ali was knocked down. The problem is that knock downs do not have great significance; few fighters go their whole career without getting knocked down. The Louis cult also ignores all of Louis' knockdowns; Schmeling x2, Braddock (wow), Baer, Galento (yikes), Walcott x3, Marciano x2. And that's forgetting all the times where Louis was staggered in fights compared to Ali, and the fact that Ali was fighting better fighters.

Again, no one cares about De La Hoya's early career knockdowns. People don't dwell on Robinson's knock downs. There have been fighters who have been KO'd repeatedly who are still acknowledged for their greatness, like Charles and Moore. What is especially odd is the idea that a Frazier knockdown is somehow more important than an Ali stoppage. I'll take ten knock downs in exchange for a knock out win.

As for Joe, who was actually in the ring with Ali, when asked about Ali's ability to take a punch, he responded that Ali "takes a good shot, all around." When Galento was asked about Louis, on the other hand, he responded that he wanted a rematch, and said something to the effect that he would "knock that bum out."

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 04 Mar 2008, 05:31

Member of The Religion of Ali ifeelfine is FIXATED on Joe Louis.

I wonder why.

LOL

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 04 Mar 2008, 05:48

IFF, what is your ranking within the Religion Of Ali, again? I only ask because Gran recently proclaimed me, "the lowest insect in the Religion Of Ali." This is flattering, but I feel my comments are a little too critical of Ali to really warrant it.

You're a bigger fan than I, so if you would so like, you can have this rank. If it's alright with Gran, I know she can be quite picky about the ROA pecking order.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 04 Mar 2008, 09:03

My favourite is Champions Forever: The Latin Legends.

The story of Roberto Duran, Alexis Arguello, Salvador Sanchez, Julio Cesar Chavez & Carlos Ortiz.

Great documentary, with excellent perspectives from the fighters & a moving tribute to the greatest fighter that never was, Salvador Sanchez.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 04 Mar 2008, 09:06

I Feel Fine wrote:This "religion" of Ali (praise be his name) doesn't ignore that Ali was knocked down. The problem is that knock downs do not have great significance; few fighters go their whole career without getting knocked down. The Louis cult also ignores all of Louis' knockdowns; Schmeling x2, Braddock (wow), Baer, Galento (yikes), Walcott x3, Marciano x2. And that's forgetting all the times where Louis was staggered in fights compared to Ali, and the fact that Ali was fighting better fighters.

Again, no one cares about De La Hoya's early career knockdowns. People don't dwell on Robinson's knock downs. There have been fighters who have been KO'd repeatedly who are still acknowledged for their greatness, like Charles and Moore. What is especially odd is the idea that a Frazier knockdown is somehow more important than an Ali stoppage. I'll take ten knock downs in exchange for a knock out win.

As for Joe, who was actually in the ring with Ali, when asked about Ali's ability to take a punch, he responded that Ali "takes a good shot, all around." When Galento was asked about Louis, on the other hand, he responded that he wanted a rematch, and said something to the effect that he would "knock that bum out."

I can't believe that Ali's knockdowns are even an issue.

He was only legitimately decked 3 times in a career spanning 61 fights & 21 years & that's after going up against some of the most fearsome & hard punching fighters in the history of the HW's.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 04 Mar 2008, 18:32

granberry wrote:Member of The Religion of Ali ifeelfine is FIXATED on Joe Louis.

I wonder why.

LOL

Fixated on Louis? Just how many Ali posts a day do you make?

Syntax... I agree. And, besides Frazier, none of those fearsome punchers knocked Ali down; two of his three legitimate knock downs came when he was a young, developing kid.

Irene... my ranking in the Ali religion is confidential. We prefer not to reveal our secrets.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 04 Mar 2008, 18:39

I Feel Fine wrote: two of his three legitimate knock downs came when he was a young, developing kid.

Ali was a "young, developing kid" two rounds before he was able to "beat" Sonny Liston ?

(when he was knocked down by 185-pound Henry Cooper)

Thomas Hauser and company would have you swallow that horsesh*t.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 04 Mar 2008, 18:50

Clay was a year older when he fought Liston, Clay took Liston more seriously than Cooper, and Liston was 34 and had fought three rounds in three years.

I do believe that Ali was still developing, but developing fighters score big wins. Louis-Baer, Robinson-Angott x2, Servo x2, Zivic x2, LaMotta, Duran-Buchanan. More importantly, I think Clay was coming into his own when he fought Liston.

Baer knocked out Schmeling, Louis knocked out Baer, and then Schmeling knocked out Louis... I suppose that means Baer took a dive?

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 04 Mar 2008, 18:54

I Feel Fine wrote:, I think Clay was coming into his own when he fought Liston.

So does Ali shill Thomas Hauser.

But experienced boxing people thought something STUNK about Ali's "fights" with Liston.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 04 Mar 2008, 18:56

granberry wrote:
I Feel Fine wrote:, I think Clay was coming into his own when he fought Liston.
So does Ali shill Thomas Hauser.

But experienced boxing people thought something STUNK about Ali's "fights" with Liston.

Joe Louis thought the second fight stunk, as I do, but he thought the first fight was legit. Are you saying that you know more than Joe Louis?

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 04 Mar 2008, 19:00

I Feel Fine wrote:
granberry wrote:
I Feel Fine wrote:, I think Clay was coming into his own when he fought Liston.
So does Ali shill Thomas Hauser.

But experienced boxing people thought something STUNK about Ali's "fights" with Liston.
Joe Louis thought the second fight stunk, as I do, but he thought the first fight was legit. Are you saying that you know more than Joe Louis?

Louis never said that.

Louis did say after the Terrell fight that "Clay can't punch."

But what would Louis know when it came to punching power?

Louis only had 23 knockouts in 27 title fights. LOL

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 04 Mar 2008, 19:04

Granberry has never had a fight with his sister, or his sister-in-law, or his second female cousin on his mother's side... and yet he thinks he knows more about boxing than Joe Louis.

Louis was a commentator in the first fight, and he was pretty convinced by Clay's performance. But what does Louis know about convincing performances, he wasn't a "boxing insider" like dingleberry.

Tell us more about Billy Conn's fight with his brother.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 04 Mar 2008, 19:36

That's why I like The West Coast Boxing thread. Ali is never mentioned there. We're not arguing about who was the best or worst. We're not compiling lists. We're not calling each other names.We're sharing stories about boxing in a region that goes back before Madison Square Gerden. At one time California was the only place far enough away to have legal boxing matches. Not exhibitions either. Less arguments over there(West Coast Boxing). I've been in some watering holes where fighters congregate. It's happy times reminiscing about the good 'ol days. Everybody is friends. I've never seen these guys(posters) nor have they seen me ,but it's like we've been pals for years.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 04 Mar 2008, 19:59

All someone did was mention that they thought WWWK's was the best boxing doc and they were attacked for it. I think the idea that "mentioning" Ali in a thread is a bad thing, as you suggest, is the kind of thinking that causes fights. And most of the other threads about Ali are started by Ali critics with a chip on their shoulder.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 04 Mar 2008, 20:05

I Feel Fine wrote: Louis was a commentator in the first fight, and he was pretty convinced by Clay's performance.

Louis said both fights were fakes.

If Louis was a commentator in a media show, then he was PAID.
And he wanted to be asked back, so he could get more MONEY.

So he was polite.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 04 Mar 2008, 20:07

You're distorting Louis' words as you distort everything else. Louis said he was convinced by Clay's first performance. If not, cite your source for him saying that both fights were fixed.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 04 Mar 2008, 20:59

I Feel Fine wrote:All someone did was mention that they thought WWWK's was the best boxing doc and they were attacked for it. I think the idea that "mentioning" Ali in a thread is a bad thing, as you suggest, is the kind of thinking that causes fights. And most of the other threads about Ali are started by Ali critics with a chip on their shoulder.

To be fair,I've seen it work the other way also. One of my first threads was on Ali's bouts with Norton,which I thought Norton won all 3. I was pummled pretty good by Ali fans. Sometimes I think there's an age factor in this. I don't remember many old timers who take such an adamant position on a fighter. I know granberry(and he goes back a ways) isn't in Ali's corner,but sometimes I think his reactions are also based on that some posters have a limited frame of reference. I think too many fans think boxing ,in a way,started with Ali. To have lived before 1960 gives a better understanding of what Ali was all about.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 04 Mar 2008, 21:16

I agree Dagos. I find a lot of people in my age group (mid 20s) who are boxing fans, well like the sport when its on, have a very narrow understanding historically of the sport.

They clutch at big popular names and form an opinion on what they have read or assume to be true. Ie Ali is the absolute best of HW boxing period.

The case also that I mentioned above or maybe in another post about Ali being used as a poster child by extreme left retard student movements can also invoke a certain view of a fighter.

I find it hard to grasp that alot of older older HW would be a match for more modern fighters. Maybe I am enlightened or maybe I am narrow minded myself. I am trying in my case to view as much as I can on older guys to be as honest to gain an opinion.

I have noted that if I am watching a say..black and white fight, with low production value any one with me, that are my age, switch of and disregard what they are viewing as ir relevant. A sad, though typical mindset that younger people have.

I am assuming that factions in our community form based on this, for example Gran obviously hates with a passion Ali followers as opposed to the man himself.