Classic American West Coast Boxing

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 04 Mar 2008, 20:20

kikibalt wrote:

Mr.D., here is you boy Mr Moto!!!!

In San Diego he was a good guy.Go figure.

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 04 Mar 2008, 21:14

Archie Moore after fighting the Rock.

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 04 Mar 2008, 21:18

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 04 Mar 2008, 21:27

Carlos Chavez with manager Ray Luna

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 04 Mar 2008, 21:48

Juan Zurita and Beau Jack...1944

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 04 Mar 2008, 21:51

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 04 Mar 2008, 22:43

Enrique Bolanos vs Manuel Ortiz

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 04 Mar 2008, 22:55

kikibalt wrote:Just On The Ohter Side of The Border

"Well they finally found some one who could beat him," I said.
"Did you see the fight?
"I went down to the Sport's Book and saw it on their feed."
Jorge ,the custodian,was happy . Finally,a Mexican fighter had beaten Manny Pacquiao. Jorge wanted practically a blow by blow description.
"I thought Morales was the stronger man."
"Did he work his jab?"
"Yeah,and his right was there too."
Mexican fans respected Pacquiao because he was a puncher and he didn't run his mouth off,but still it was hard for them to swallow a Philipino fighter beating a Mexican fighter. Besides Morales lived in Tijuana and all the Mexicans in the area felt a closeness to him. He out slugged the slugger. That's how they wanted it.
"I'll tell you what",I said,"I'll be crossing the border this week. I'll stop by his gym and see if he'll sign an autograph."

The Morales Gym is just on the other side of the border. It's in the Zona Norte a few blocks going west on Coahuila Street. When people say Tijuana,the first thing that pops into their minds is the Red Light District. Tijuana will aways be associated with that,especially on the U.S. side. All Americans think about is sex,yet I don't think they've dealt with it correctly. They associate it with love. Where as Mexicans look at it as a normal biological function. They're not anxious about it that much.

The gym is on a corner in a two story building. The family owns the building. The gym is upstairs and below it is a typical small neighborhood store Mexicans call an"Aborrotes." The store sells the usual:candy,sodas,milk,cigarettes,and beer. If you don't know where the gym is,you'll miss it. There's no sign on the place. There's a lot of room in front of the building so I park there Inside the store is a video game where you sit down and shoot at people on the screen.There's a boy sitting down playing the machine and there's another boy watching him play. I peeked to see what they were shooting at. Policemen.

The place was quiet. In fact everything was quiet. It was sunny.A couple of old women walking with canes came into the store and bought a roll of toilet paper. The kid behind the counter took their pesos and put them in a cigar box. I asked the kid behind the counter if there was anyone in the gym. He shrugged his shoulders and said he didn't know.
"Sube arriba(go upstairs)",he told me.
I walked around the corner and started up a narrow flight of stairs. The first step had broken and they had replaced it with a brick. The door was open,but the gym was empty. It was very still and quiet inside. There was a boxing ring with several towels neatly folded over the top rope. The heavy bag hung motionless. The speed bag was in a corner and next to it was a rack that had a few dumbells on it. A wooden stool was in one of the corners of the ring. The sun was beginning to set and peering through the rays coming inside the gym, I could see a little dust moving slowly.

I walked downstairs to the store and asked the kid behind the counter what time the fighters would arrive.
"Tres en la tarde"(3 in the afternoon),he said. The two boys were still playing the video game. I looked at my watch. It was 2 o'clock.
"Vuelvo en una hora"(I return in an hour)
I saw a bench across the street under a tree. I'd wait there. Before walking across the street,I bought a strawberry soda. I sat on the bench and started thinking about the Morales fight. After it was over,he said he dedicated it to the people of the Zona Norte. The poor people who struggled to survive. The ones who weren't as fortunate as he had been. Morales wanted to be champion for the people of the neighborhood.

There were a couple of birds sitting on a small branch above me chirping. The branch was wavering slightly as they chirped. It was sunny and the birds were chirping. No one walked by me as I sat there looking across the street at the the little store. I must have dozed off. I dreamt what it would be like to be the champion of the world. A man walking his dog came by me and the dog nervously sniffed around my feet. It startled me. I looked at my watch . It was 3 thirty.I shook my head a little and walked across the street to the store. The two boys had left. I asked the kid at the counter if anyone was upstairs.
"No Se"(I don't know)
I walked up the stairs again. The gym appeared just how I'd last seen it last.Empty. As I was walking down the stairs my foot stumbled on the brick at the bottom, and I sprained my ankle. I grimaced and limped back to the store.
"Nadie"(no one),I said to the kid. He looked by me.
"Dime,amigo. 'Terrible'(Morales's nickname) esta aqui?"(is Morales here)
"Si,senor. Pero ahorrita no."(Yes but not right now)
I limped back to the car. My ankle was hurting more. I started the engine and looked back inside the store. The kid was not behind the counter. I rolled down my window. Just then a beggar came up to my driver's side.
"Un peso por un taco por favor?",(a peso for a taco) he asked.
I reached in my pocket and gave him a dollar. He bowed several times and was smiling. His teeth were gone.
"Muchas gracias,Vaya con Dios"(thank you.go with God)
As he walked away,I noticed he had a huge foot. It didn't have shoe or a sock on it. It was too big. It was rubbery looking and a dark red.He had difficulty walking. He was walking slowly in the middle of the street. I couldn't figure where he was going. I felt a twinge in my ankle.I figured I had to rush home fast and get ice on it to keep the swelling down.

Dagosd

Mr.D.
Another one of your great stories, you and Rick would make a hell of a writing team.

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 04 Mar 2008, 23:57

Roger mayweather

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 05 Mar 2008, 01:41

Thanks again Frank. Like I've mentioned before,you can find meaning in anything and write about it. When someone gets burned out,whether it's boxing or writing,he has to find something else to keep the juices flowing.

That picture of Carlos Chavez and Ray Luna says a lot. I know very little about them. But those smiles. What do they have to worry about? Like Pug said. In this ego driven world we live in,those two are saying "whatever happens will happen". Why worry about something you have no control of? My wife is always saying,"Si Dios quiere"(If God wants it to happen). He fights,lives his life as happy as he can make it,tries not look back,and enjoys the moment. The future? It will come. You can bet on that. What's in store? Why think about it? It's something out of our control.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 05 Mar 2008, 01:52

dagosd2000 wrote:
kikibalt wrote:

Mr.D., here is you boy Mr Moto!!!!
In San Diego he was a good guy.Go figure.

Mr Moto.
I heard that every time Moto wrestled Lou Thesz, he was sore for weeks.
Thesz would really stretch Moto as supposedly he didnt like him too much.
Many people dont realize how tough Thesz really was .
He was a very dangerous guy in real life .
A legitimate hooker.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 05 Mar 2008, 02:25

After posting that last one,I looked up and saw Manny Ortiz. I remember many years ago my Japanese neighbor's father owned a bar on 5th Street downtown. The bar was called The Orient. It was during Vietnam and business was booming. Downtown San Diego was made up of Oriental Bars,card rooms,hookers sitting in hotel lobbies,and massage parlors. Those people knew what servicemen wanted. There's another shitty side of war that isn't on a battlefield. But what the hell. Those guys weren't looking for any libraries,and who could blame them?

That area of downtown was getting pretty seedy. It wasn't only sailors that frequented The Orient,but the down and out people of skid row. They lived in those cockroach infested hotels that were up and down the blocks.

Well despite the gloomy picture I just painted for you,I practically lived down there. Once you weren't sober,the place was a lot of fun. Once in a while at The Orient I would see this old guy come in and sit at the end of the bar. He was already drunk,but he handled himself with a little dignity. You knew he must of held some rank because only the people with something to back them up would be allowed to sit at that end of the bar. He was chummy with the owner,but I never concentrated on trying to recognize who he was. I was always busy letting the girls take me for a sucker. Buy them drinks,shoot pool with them,play the pin ball machine. If I was lucky it would be my turn to get throwed and blowed after the place closed.

One night the old guy comes in again and I look long enough to know he's a fighter. His face is a little misshapen. I can tell it was no recent punishment, so at one time he must have been a fighter. He'd always talk to the owner. They seemed they knew each other for a while. He never wasted any time with the girls.

Before going home ,I asked my friend's father who the old guy was.
"Manuel Ortiz"
"The fighter?" I'm taken back a little.
"He's well known down here."
"Is he down on his luck?" I felt I had just asked a stupid question
"He's seen better times",my friends father says.
"Will you introduce me the next time he comes in?' I asked. Now I had wished I'd paid more attention.
"Sure",says my friend's father."Next time he comes in I'll introduce you"
He never came in again. About six months later I read on the back of the sports page at the bottom that"Manuel Ortiz.former bantamweight champion,died at Mercy Hospital. Cause was cirrohsis of the liver. He was 54 years old."

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 05 Mar 2008, 02:34

Expug wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:
kikibalt wrote:

Mr.D., here is you boy Mr Moto!!!!
In San Diego he was a good guy.Go figure.

Mr Moto.
I heard that every time Moto wrestled Lou Thesz, he was sore for weeks.
Thesz would really stretch Moto as supposedly he didnt like him too much.
Many people dont realize how tough Thesz really was .
He was a very dangerous guy in real life .
A legitimate hooker.

Hey Pug,after the fighters would workout at the Coliseum,it would the wrestlers' turn. They'd be slammin' doors and making a lot of noise when they came out of the dressing room. What I always noticed though,and it seemed peculiar,that after they came out of the dressing room The Coliseum would reek with their cologne. It was really powerfull.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 05 Mar 2008, 04:37

dagosd2000 wrote:After posting that last one,I looked up and saw Manny Ortiz. I remember many years ago my Japanese neighbor's father owned a bar on 5th Street downtown. The bar was called The Orient. It was during Vietnam and business was booming. Downtown San Diego was made up of Oriental Bars,card rooms,hookers sitting in hotel lobbies,and massage parlors. Those people knew what servicemen wanted. There's another shitty side of war that isn't on a battlefield. But what the hell. Those guys weren't looking for any libraries,and who could blame them?

That area of downtown was getting pretty seedy. It wasn't only sailors that frequented The Orient,but the down and out people of skid row. They lived in those cockroach infested hotels that were up and down the blocks.

Well despite the gloomy picture I just painted for you,I practically lived down there. Once you weren't sober,the place was a lot of fun. Once in a while at The Orient I would see this old guy come in and sit at the end of the bar. He was already drunk,but he handled himself with a little dignity. You knew he must of held some rank because only the people with something to back them up would be allowed to sit at that end of the bar. He was chummy with the owner,but I never concentrated on trying to recognize who he was. I was always busy letting the girls take me for a sucker. Buy them drinks,shoot pool with them,play the pin ball machine. If I was lucky it would be my turn to get throwed and blowed after the place closed.

One night the old guy comes in again and I look long enough to know he's a fighter. His face is a little misshapen. I can tell it was no recent punishment, so at one time he must have been a fighter. He'd always talk to the owner. They seemed they knew each other for a while. He never wasted any time with the girls.

Before going home ,I asked my friend's father who the old guy was.
"Manuel Ortiz"
"The fighter?" I'm taken back a little.
"He's well known down here."
"Is he down on his luck?" I felt I had just asked a stupid question
"He's seen better times",my friends father says.
"Will you introduce me the next time he comes in?' I asked. Now I had wished I'd paid more attention.
"Sure",says my friend's father."Next time he comes in I'll introduce you"
He never came in again. About six months later I read on the back of the sports page at the bottom that"Manuel Ortiz.former bantamweight champion,died at Mercy Hospital. Cause was cirrohsis of the liver. He was 54 years old."

Great story.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 05 Mar 2008, 06:41

kikibalt wrote:
Roger mayweather

Chavez apart, he seemed to have an Indian sign over Mexican fighters.

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 05 Mar 2008, 07:31

bennie wrote:
kikibalt wrote:
Roger mayweather
CHAVEZ APART, he seemed to have an Indian sign over Mexican fighters.

And Tony Baltazar

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 05 Mar 2008, 07:47

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 05 Mar 2008, 07:50

kikibalt wrote:
bennie wrote:
kikibalt wrote:
Roger mayweather
CHAVEZ APART, he seemed to have an Indian sign over Mexican fighters.

And Tony Baltazar

Hence the 'seemed to', Frankie.

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 05 Mar 2008, 07:52

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 05 Mar 2008, 08:25

Frankie, just looking at Tony's record after he got past Mayweather and presumably was on the verge of a major world title shot - how come he boxed only once in the next four years?

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 05 Mar 2008, 10:46

bennie wrote:Frankie, just looking at Tony's record after he got past Mayweather and presumably was on the verge of a major world title shot - how come he boxed only once in the next four years?

Bennie; later on this morning I will address your question, right now I have to go out and do somethings that need to be done.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 05 Mar 2008, 11:28

OK.

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 05 Mar 2008, 14:04

bennie wrote:Frankie, just looking at Tony's record after he got past Mayweather and presumably was on the verge of a major world title shot - how come he boxed only once in the next four years?

As I write this, I do it with a heavy heart.

Tony fought Roger Mayweather with one bad hand (right), I have already address that in another post, he had surgery on the hand after the R.M. fight, after the surgery he had lots of time with nothing to do but hang out with his friends and drink and god know what else they were doing.
The hand was taking a long time to heal, so that gave him more time to hang out and drink, sometime in 1984-85, he was involved in a auto accident while drinking, Tony's best friend Roger and a little boy, Timmy Duran, in the other car were killed, Tony was arrested and charged and later on convicted of vehicular manslanghter, he was sentence to 3 years in prison, he did 2 1/2 years.
The fight with Darrell Cottrell was between the accident and going to prison.

It gives me no particularly pleasure to address this chapter of Tony's life, but the chapter has been written and we (Tony, his siblings, my wife and I) have to deal with it.
Tony carries a heavy burden, and its a burden that he will carry for the rest of his life, we, his family, try to help and make that burden a little lighter.
Tony is having a hard time dealing with all this, though he has made peace with Roger's and Timmy Duran's parents and with his god, Tony is not a happy man, he just can't make peace with himself and get over it, its that and the death of his son Kody (5 years old) that sometimes gets to be too much for him and he'll start crying like a baby.

Bennie,

Do not feel bad for asking the question, it a fair question and you're entitled to an answer.

scartissue · Post by **scartissue** » 05 Mar 2008, 15:19

Frank, if I was standing next to you right now I would shake your hand and give you a big Irish bear hug. You're a heckuva man.

Scartissue

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 05 Mar 2008, 15:21

scartissue wrote:Frank, if I was standing next to you right now I would shake your hand and give you a big Irish bear hug. You're a heckuva man.

Scartissue

Thank ScarD., but right now I don't feel all that good about anything.